#1: Alternative Medicine is medical treatments that are used instead of traditional (modern) therapies.
#2: Complementary Medicine is medical treatments that are used in conjunction with traditional (modern) therapies.
I’ve got nothing against the latter, the only proviso being that if you take complementary medical treatment that it’s advisable to consult your doctor in the event that the alternative treatment you’re considering may conflict with your existing treatment e.g. your local pharmacist will know if any herbs you’re proposing to take as complementary medicine will conflict with or complement any medication you’ve been prescribed by your doctor.
However, in this day and age, in the modern western world where we have a good health system, alternative medicine is foolhardy (foolish). Not mentioning any names, I know that one participant of these forums, whose username begins with “ca” and ends in “a” has a strong belief that the biggest cause of death is modern medical treatment; and that he is now totally reliant on alternative medicine, in the belief that that will give him better health protection!!!
Out with it Man! You can say my name.lol. CastlePaloma. Castle of protection and paloma for peace.
The main reason they are called alternative medicine is because big pharmaceutical wanted the total monopoly on medicine. One example is marijuana was the best known medicines known to human kind. Then it was make illegal in Canada for 90 years. Shortly after largest American corporation got together and created marijuana illegal in every Country in the world. Putting more marijuana users in prison greater than all the violence criminals combined like rapist, murderer, armed robbery, child molesters and so etc .
Point being, we are our own best doctors in the world. The medical profession knows its not profitable if your fully healthy and not totally dependent on them as the pound of cure. When most of our medicine in our own greenhouse or backyard as the ounce of medicine. When the American Government owns the patent on marijuana, they will not do honest research as it's schedule one meaning no useful purpose and is harmful. Just only one example one plant medicine. Towards the absurd absolute power and corruption over the plants that make up 80% of the total
biomass weight on earth. As I grow plants, fungi and worms being the largest biomass animal on earth. Making up 94% biomass weight living medicine and food on thd planet. I can not put them into mainstream markets because governments, pharmaceutical and farmers like GMO Gates monopolize control most everything.
I'm afraid that I can't fully agree with either you or Nathanville. But one day this logic did hit me in the face: I have complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), a most painful condition usually resulting from an injury or surgery. In my case it came from a spinal injury I sustained in a bus wreck. My doctor prescribed Lyrica for my pain, which was like a miracle drug. Then after 3 years, the side effects got to be too much for me to handle, and I was able to get off it without going through a step withdrawal under a doctor's care. Marijuana wasn't medicinally available at the time, still totally illegal. But why? Lyrica was a synthetic drug similar to a poppy derivative, and it was a Schedule I drug, I was shocked to discover. Even if marijuana had not been illegal -- and too expensive on the street to buy -- I was allergic to it. Fortunately, lidocaine patches became available over the counter. Before they became OTC, I was able to afford to have a one-month supply prescription filled. These I used very sparingly and kept in reserve for when I had to travel for business.
OK, fast forward to this day and time. Medical marijuana is legal in my state. I would love to use it, BUT, it is still expensive and most prescription plans won't pay for it although they will pay for Schedule I prescription drugs, and I am still allergic to it. I'm retired but I'm not a welfare queen, so the government won't pay for high-priced prescriptions for me. So that's why I can't side with either one of you.
BTW CastlePaloma, it was a greedy self serving political appointee named Harry Ainsworth who saw an advantage into making marijuana use and hemp growing illegal in this country. Do you realize that if hemp had been illegal in Europe in the 15th Century, Columbus never would have "discovered" American? In addition, a lot of people wouldn't have had cheap clothes to wear, and many would have starved to death. We have been at the mercy of greedy politicians since the dawn of time, it seems.
Thanks for your contribution MizBejabbers; I am confused about where you see that we don’t agree, so I would be grateful if you can enlighten me.
From what you say, if I’ve understood correctly, you’re doctor prescribed Lyrica (Pregabalin) which as you say is classified as a controlled substance (Class C drug in the UK), and which is approved in the USA & Europe as a prescribed drug for use on prescription.
I fully support mainstream modern western healthcare; my point was that I’m also in favour of complementary medicine, that’s taken alongside whatever treatment your doctor prescribes; provided you consult with your doctor to get reassurance that the complementary medicine isn’t going to interact negatively with any treatment your doctor is giving you.
Whereas, unlike Castlepaloma, I do not advocate in just using Alternative medicine e.g. taking herbal treatment as an alternative to seeking medical advice and treatment from a conventional modern healthcare doctor.
As regards marijuana, yes it is also illegal in the UK; but since November 2018 the UK Government has legalised it for medical purposes; but as a controlled substance can only be given on prescription by an NHS doctor; albeit, being a prescription on the NHS means that most patients who need it will get it for free.
Arthur, in Nigeria, my country, marijauna can cause one inprisonment, especially the process/refine ones. Nigeria doctors hardly believe in alternative or complementary medicine. Therefore, the majority goes for fringe medicine locally call native doctor or herbalist. Besides orthodox or western medicine is very expensive. The government did not finance nor subsidy it. Whereas herbal is pocket friendly and affordable. Nutrition medicine should be at the finger tip of every person. It's not exclusive for the few trained. Medical doctors are even worried that the food you eat is not rocking well in your system, hence hindering the absorbption of the prescribe 'chemicals.'
Yep, marijuana is also illegal in the UK; classified as a Class ‘C’ drug, which carries a maximum penalty of two years prison for being in possession of it.
However, since November 2018 the UK Government has legalised marijuana for medical use, provided it’s prescribed and issued by the NHS.
I note that that orthodox western medicine is very expensive in Nigeria. How much, typically does it cost e.g. is it as expensive as medicine in the USA.
In the UK, on the NHS, the only people who have to pay for their medication are people who are in full time employment, earning more than just the minimum legal wage, and who doesn’t have a lifelong illness: and even then the prescription (which at our doctors is usually for two months’ supply) is only £9.35 ($12). For everyone else e.g. those with long term illness like dilates, or if you’re retired like me, then ‘ALL’ NHS prescriptions are 100% free.
As you may already know, in the UK NHS doctors are quite happy for you to take complementary medicine, provided you seek their advice. Besides, in the UK NHS medical prescription are free for most people, so cost isn’t a factor. What concerns your doctor is your health, and if you’re in good health by taking a few herbs that’s fine by them, provided that when you do fall ill that you have the good sense to seek proper medical help from your NHS doctor, and not try to cure yourself on just ‘alternative’ medicine.
In the UK the NHS is also very hot on the importance of nutrition as part of a more holistic approach to medicine e.g. the NHS have been running a series of healthy eating campaigns in recent years. And also, following my discharge from hospital recently, I was subsequently contacted by the hospitals nutritionals as part of a routine follow-up consultation; and we had an interesting chat, but it turned out that I am eating healthy, and I don’t need to be on any special diet, so I got the ‘all clear’ from her.
When I was a boy all medical treatment, drugs, including hospitalization was free. That was before the end of the 1970's. Then toward the end of that century, the government of the day set a bad precedent in charging every patient some fee for consultation, drugs, and all that. Till date whether low or high income, without income, pensioner, etc all pay for treatment. I'm a retired Administrative Officer in the civil service and knows what I'm saying. Your government lovely cares for you.
When I was younger. Keep hearing these commercials on TV. Send us your money of $1 aday for starving African children. Your $1 ADAY Feeds, clothes, medical and education a child each day.
I've spent $100, 000s on my child. Felt like sending my child over to Africa for a $1 aday.
"However, in this day and age, in the modern western world where we have a good health system, alternative medicine is foolhardy (foolish)."
Nathanville, this is the part of your statement with which I can't fully agree. Many of our pharmaceuticals are based on synthesized versions of the real thing, which sometimes could be classified as an herb. I think the example I gave of being prescribed a Schedule I drug (in the U.S.) while a natural plant substance, marijuana, could be used successfully by most people. I probably confused you when I said I was allergic to marijuana. I'm not able to take natural herbs either picked from the garden or bought in capsule form from the drugstore or health food store, but many people can and do use them.
I see where big pharma in the U.S. makes a profit out of synthesizing natural drugs.
I also see your point and agree that other countries do not have the problem with big pharma that we have in the U.S.
One of the reasons is because in the U.S. people pay for the R & D (research and development) of big pharma. By the time the medicine reaches other countries, that cost has been paid by us suckers here. Also, many of these countries have socialized medicine and the government picks up most of the tab. So a med that cost me a copay of $230 (Lyrica) for a month supply, at the time was costing Americans who were getting it from Australia $69. I don't know what the Aussies were paying for it then. My doctor was in the process of getting a license in Australia so his patients could order it from there when I was able to wean myself from it.
By the way, I see that now there is a generic pregabalin on the market for around $24 for a month's prescription. Back when I was taking Lyrica, the insurance companies tried to push off gabapentin on us. They kept trying to tell us that it was generic Lyrica. I don't think pregabalin is spelled g a b a p e n t i n. I don't know anyone who got successful results with it. I certainly did not either.
Thanks for the clarity MizBejabbers, I understand, and can see where the confusion may be e.g. in this forum I’ve tried to distinguish between ‘Alternative’ & ‘Complementary’ in the sense that in the former (alternative) one would take ‘non-orthodox’ treatment without consulting your doctor, while in the latter (complementary) one would take non-orthodox’ treatment in conjunction with consulting your doctor.
I guess an example might be:-
#1: If you decide to take fresh herbs from the garden to try to treat what could be a serious ailment, instead of seeing your doctor e.g. alternative medicine; then that might be foolhardy, and potentially life threatening.
#2: If, on the other hand, you took fresh herbs from your garden to help treat a similar ailment, after you consulted your doctor for advise e.g. complementary medicine, then there is less risk.
How much you have to pay for prescriptions in the USA (and Australia) e.g. $230 for a month’s supply of Lyrica in the USA, and $69 in Australia is interesting. In the UK, if you are in fulltime employment, earning more than the legal minimum wage and don’t suffer from any long term illness e.g. diabetes, then you do have to pay for your subscriptions, but it’s a fixed fee of £9.35 ($12) per prescription, which is often two months’ supply ($6 per month). However, for everyone else (including me and my wife, because we’re retired) all prescriptions in the UK are ‘Free’.
I do grow and use herbs from the garden; partly for flavouring in cooking, and occasionally for simple herbal remedies e.g. feverfew; but we do also consult with our doctor when we have any ailments of concern.
I think the confusion was also a matter of semantics. In the U.S. I've never heard the term "complementary medicine" used. It's either conventional medicine or alternative. Some (a few) doctors do recognize and approve of using alternative methods along with the conventional, but they don't call it "complementary" that I know of. Thanks for clarifying.
If you know it, ya would have had cook medical marijuana as a green leafy vegetable and eat it. It's much safer with no side effect as a green.
Castlepaloma, as usual, you are basing your views as if the whole world is made in the image of the USA; whereas it’s not.
Outside of the USA the big Pharmaceutical Companies don’t monopolise the medicine.
Marijuana being illegal in most countries has nothing to do with the largest American Corporations getting together to make it so. Each country that has done so, has made Marijuana illegal unilaterally; and there are a few countries where Marijuana is legal e.g. Holland.
Marijuana was made illegal in the UK in 1928. Since November 2018 it’s been approved in the UK as a prescribed drug that can be given on prescription by your NHS Doctor.
Returning back to my 2nd point “Outside of the USA the big Pharmaceutical Companies don’t monopolise the medicine”; the situation in the UK is as follows:-
#1 In the NHS (National Health Service) most hospitals have an affiliation with universities in their area; a close working partnership for the mutual benefit of both e.g. for training and R&D etc.
Part of the close relationship between the NHS and Universities gives the NHS the ability to R&D (Research & Develop) new treatments and medical drugs; consequently the NHS has a good track record of developing its own world class drugs that can be manufactured by British Pharmaceutical Companies at a reasonable cost, rather than the extortionate costs the USA Pharmaceutical Companies demand.
#2 The NHS, which provides ‘FREE’ Universal Healthcare to ‘ALL’ (Government owned and run, and paid for by the taxpayer), does not have the ‘Authority’ to negotiate and buy medical drugs directly; the NHS has to get approval from NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence).
NICE is an independent Government body responsibly for negotiation and approving drugs for use by the NHS; and NICE is a tough negotiator e.g. they’ll not pay the extortionate prices demanded by USA Pharmaceutical Companies, when cheaper (if not quite so effective) alternatives around the world are available (as is often the case); therefore, invariably, as the NHS is a big customer (66 million clients), the USA Pharmaceutical Companies do often relent and provide the drugs to the UK NHS at a discounted price.
Who are NICE Scientific Advice? https://youtu.be/Uy3mzB5ItlM
NICE Assessing the value of new medicines for the NHS: https://youtu.be/PIULWBVMpss
Its like you, live in such a boxed up world.
Patent no. 6,630,507 was granted as a result of research showing the possibility that parts of the cannabis plant, those that are non-psychoactive, are effective in the treatment of neurological diseases. Because relief from these diseases via the cannabis plant is possible without getting high from THC, the patent was granted.
The patent does not say there is proof that treatment using cannabinoids is effective. That would require laboratory purification and synthesis of the compound, not to mention loads of animal and human testing, plus being approved by the FDA once all that is done, like what has happened with Epidiolex.
In other words, the patent was granted because–at the time it was applied-for–there was a possibility that it could be effective, and worthy of further research. In the meantime, the government has kept its potential largely hidden from the public and classified as a Schedule 1 drug. Schedule 1 means no health or medical benefits from marijuana. I am not going down the history of marijuana 101. How US changed the agenda on marijuana around the world. Because that steal helmet is on too tight.
Yes, I understand that the USA has its own laws governing cannabis, and that in the USA cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug.
But your last sentence in your above comment suggests that you think that what applies in the USA applies across the world; but it doesn’t:-
FYI in the UK cannabis is only a ‘Class C’ drug e.g. not very serious; maximum penalty just 2 years prison. And,
Also, FYI, in the UK, since November 2018 cannabis has been approved by the British Government for use by the NHS, as a prescribed drug, that can be given on prescription to patients (by NHS doctors) who will benefit from its medicinal use; and being on prescription by the NHS means that most people in the UK who are prescribed it by the NHS get it for free.
'that steel helment on is too tight.' Arthur, I can't help laughing! Seems because you wrote that man whose user name begin with ca and in a.
I will do me and you do you. Noone owns me and allowed to take away my livelihood or force thing into my body.
Being world class athlete and artist for decades and loving it for most waking hours of my life. Is proof that my science and bliss lifestyle works best for me. I only explore the darkside or rabbit hole once in a wail, reaching for the stars and bring it back to our optimist club. With a chance it will be recreated globally.
You can do you.
You can be the king of mediocrity or comfortable numb. With all the limitations and boundaries of world covid order normal offers.
See you in the future when the pendulum swings extremely the other way. Being an individual entrepreneur always keeps me lively and part of grass roots change by projector and generator and ultimately manifesto of beauty
Outside of usa pharmaceutical
Germany: US$56.9 billion (14.5% of exported drugs and medicines)
Switzerland: $47.8 billion (12.2%)
Netherlands: $31.1 billion (7.9%)
Belgium: $29 billion (7.4%)
France: $26.6 billion (6.8%)
Italy: $24.8 billion (6.3%)
United States: $24.3 billion (6.2%)
United Kingdom: $18.3 billion (4.7%)
The 7 of the top 8 pharmaceutical companies in the world are in Europe. Pfizer had the largest share of the pharmaceutical market
In the UK with 8.2 percent of the market, followed by Novartis with six percent.
A, can you hear him? Not on my life at the moment..
Arthur, I discern the guy and he respond right away! Why d'you do do that to invite him to take the law up with ya? Or were you copying Caslepaloma to become an art 'artist'? While I'm enjoying the fun you create within a serous health issue, don't you realise ca...a has tag the thread as an affront to his 99.9999999999 unknow in the universe? Alternate #3: laughter, is the best medicine.
Yep, I know, I’m a glutton for punishment.
Where is a human brain or being organisms ,? To say the human brain is powerful enough to know the correct measurement scale size of the Universe. Plus all its creatures and everything in it
Please find me a human being capable of figuring out if this number 99.9999999999 would be correct for everything in the Universe that's unknown? .
Except one book the, Bible,
Bible knows the whole source of the universal truth and knowledge. How stupid of me, I forget to look at all answers from one book.
Arthur, I believe both orthodox and alternative medicine has its place in the health scheme of a person. Sickness, diseases, and ill-health don't just happen. There's a cause for these negative effects. I also believe there's an alternative to the above two less known as nutrition or orthomolecular medicine. It's this laler which is mankind should primarily concern with but failed awfully that gave rise to both the medical and alternative practice. People eat but were they eating natural organic foods(fruits and vegges come first) 85% naturally? Fast foods and junks eaten 100% over and send a person to hospital- orthodox or fringe docter. Believe me. I've seen alt or compl medicine practitiner as foolhardy as the other. They move from a to c back and forth. I hardly go to the hospital even once a year.
If I understand you correctly, then well put e.g. herbal drinks taken for health purposes is an alternative medicine where you wouldn’t normally need to consult your doctor; albeit herbs can have adverse (and sometimes dangerous) side effects which you should make a point of being aware of if you intend using herbs. However, when it comes to issues of sickness, disease and ill-health then you should seek your primary care from orthodox medicine; but, subject to consulting your doctor, there’s no harm in also taking complementary medicine such as Feverfew, or a honey & lemon hot drink to ease a sore throat.
I agree with you...herbs can give a side effect. But I don't take herbs as herbal drinks. I mostly rock them in my chop plate. Herbal teas for example with basil or tulsi I made in the kitchen with fresh greens. Believe me you, the last time I went to the hospital 2017, I went for a check up. A motor cycle accident I had 10 years before re-cause some pains. Except a swollen thigh(right leg), I don't sustain a bruise or bone injury during the accident...a miracle? But the pain is unbearing. I was given some drugs. Two months later the pains still persists. I apply cold compress and then took to stretching and jogging. Thank goodness its gone. But I still stretch,exercise and jog weekty. alternative #4: Bodily Exercse.
This is the first time in the whole of my life that I’ve needed to go to the hospital; and following three weeks in hospital I am currently given regular check-ups every month while I recover.
It’s my wife who is potentially dependent on pain-killers, because of her back condition. However, rather than just prescribe her pain-killers the NHS hospital has also taught her how to do specific physical exercises to help ease the pain, and have given her a series of those exercises to do at home as part of her follow-up treatment.
And thankfully, the physical exercises prescribed to my wife by the NHS do help reduce her need to take painkillers quite significantly. But also, with her doctors knowledge, she does use other aids as appropriate to help relieve pain, including heat pads and a tens machine etc.
Years ago I did a rather long article about the use of alternative medicines and treatment.
In some of the largest hospitals in the United States, there are programs that offer everything from Acupuncture to herbal medicines and other things. All of them have varying degrees of success in different situations. Success doesn't matter, pharmaceutical companies are too powerful to change things.
Ever hear of the Buteyko breathing method? It is a way for people to control an asthma attack without the use of drugs. It is very successful. This is common in Australia, Russia and other Eastern European countries. When I did the story, organizations dedicated to helping people with asthma refused to be part of the story. They were afraid the pharmaceutical companies would withdraw their donations and support. It was like that with physicians and even hospitals. I did get a few physicians to discuss it with me.
So, here we have a successful method of treating asthma, but because it is a drug-free method, it is ignored and not discussed.
I think there are many alternative medicines and treatments that are kept back because there is no money to be made in promoting them.
This is the way of the world.
Yep, that is “the way of the world in the USA”.
Fortunately things are different in the rest of the world; especially in countries like the UK where the Health Service is owned and run by the Government, at the taxpayers’ expense (the NHS), and where the NHS (National Health Service) puts people before costs. I would say ‘profit’, but the NHS is free to all at the point of use, so the word profit doesn’t come into the equation.
Our neighbours (two doors away from us) are a Chinese couple who are medically qualified in China and the UK; they both work at UWE (University of the West of England) doing R&D (Research & Development) into adapting traditional Chinese medicine and medical practices into Western Orthodox methods e.g. the NHS.
In the UK virtually every NHS hospital is in Association with their local universities; which has the mutual benefit in training/education, and R&D e.g. the NHS has a good track record (with the help of the universities) of developing medical drugs and treatment.
Also, the NHS is shielded from pressure from the pharmaceutical companies because the NHS does not have the authority to buy drugs without the expressed consent from NICE. NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) is an ‘independent’ Government Department responsible for negotiating deals with the pharmaceutical companies, and approving which drugs the NHS are permitted to buy and use. NICE is a tough negotiator, and doesn’t usually buy drugs from the USA pharmaceutical companies at the hyped up prices that the USA hospitals pay e.g. there are usually cheaper alternative treatments available; therefore as the NHS is a big customer (66 million clients) the USA pharmaceutical companies often offer their drugs at a reduced price, rather than loose the sale altogether.
Because the NHS is not profit orientated it is able to put the interests of the patient first; and, particularly in recent years and decades has been more broadminded in the range of treatment it offers e.g. the NHS is increasingly embracing the concept of holistic medicine….
And these days the NHS does support and offer a number of non-orthodox medical practices as part of its service including acupuncture; and the NHS also provides training and education for ‘relaxation classes’ as an alternative to medication etc.
The NHS philosophy is that “Prevention is Better than Cure”; therefore the NHS spends a lot of its resources on educating the public e.g. better eating, more exercise etc., and on regular health checks to identify potential health issues before they occur and take action to prevent the health issue developing; for example the NHS will regular check your blood sugar level, and if you show any signs of becoming diabetic will advise you, and educate you on how to avoid becoming diabetic.
In the event that medical drugs are needed, in the NHS increasingly doctors only prescribe drugs as a last resort; and when they do, for most people in the UK medical prescriptions are ‘free’ anyway.
So, did you ever hear of the Buteyko breathing method? Is it something your NIH embraces? Just wondering.
Interesting question: I hadn’t heard of the Buteyko breathing method because I don’t have asthma and I don’t know anyone who does.
However, I did check with the NHS website, and they do mention it as complementary therapy that can be offered under the NHS. To ‘Quote’ from the NHS website in relation to asthma treatment:-
• breathing exercises – such as techniques called the Papworth method and the Buteyko method
• traditional Chinese herbal medicine
• ionisers – devices that use an electric current to charge molecules of air
• manual therapies – such as chiropractic
• dietary supplements
Although the NHS website does point out that “There's little evidence to suggest many of these treatments help”, but adds “There's some evidence that breathing exercises can improve symptoms and reduce the need for reliever medicines in some people”; although they do also make it clear that any such therapy should be taken as complementary treatment and not as an alternative to any main treatment the NHS offers.
Does that help to answer your question.
Here’s an old NHS (National Health Service) video promoting breathing exercises to help people clear fluid and phlegm from their chests. https://youtu.be/kC-H8fFzZes?t=468
People don't have time, the vast majority are going to drag their dirty mask around and spread what ever they got, everywhere.
I can agree with you that some people don't have the time for a simple breathing exercise. The mask can be wash clean and re-use, or it can be discard completely. In some places, the law is there to catch up with you.
People don’t have time for what Castlepaloma, and what does it have to do with masks?
If you read the interaction between me and Readmikenow above, you will see that we were talking about breathing exercises (specifically the Buteyko method) for people who suffer from asthma, as an alternative or complementary medical treatment to orthodox medicines e.g. drugs; and whether the NHS supported such a measure.
I am starting to look at covid in a good way. It shows how clearly how our medical and political systems are broken, high time now the people can fix them.
Israel Is the World’s Most Vaccinated Country. Why Are Cases Rising?
You are mistaken, the number of new cases in Israel is the lowest its been since the start of the pandemic, and still falling; and FYI the average daily deaths from Covid is just down to only 3 deaths a day (the lowest since the start of the pandemic:- As shown in the data below:-
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir … ry/israel/
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/02 … untry.html
Also that tape of a woman opposition political party i sent you and her veiw that were so real. Unlike Israel studies and research are fake.
No wonder Israel and US are amoug the most disliked countries in the world.
You were rather sloppy Castlepaloma in looking at the data and reading even your own link:-
FYI: the link you’ve given is to a report dated 7th February; at that time Israel was in the middle of a covid wave of infections; with an average of 60 deaths a day. However, if you look at the link sent, you will see that the infection rate is no longer rising, and hasn’t done so for months. Since the date of the article in your link covid cases have been dramatically falling, so that the average daily deaths are down to just one death per day now.
Also, if you had read the article which you give the link to more carefully, you will note in the last sentence in the 4th paragraph, to ‘quote’: - “Among people vaccinated, COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations have fallen dramatically”
Also, if you read your article, 6th paragraph; you will note that it clearly states that it’s not those who have been vaccinated who are falling ill, but the “younger and less cautious Israelis who flouted caution” – “turning themselves into spreaders just as the highly infectious British mutation of the virus wafted into the country.”
And finally, in that article, which you gave the link for, it clearly states that back in February, 44% of new infections were among young citizens under the age of 19; while only 6.2% of citizens over the age of 60 were getting infected. The article goes onto explain that with the UK Covid variant (which is more infectious), younger people are more susceptible to falling ill with covid than with the old variant; and thus, back in February (when this article was written) only 60% of the Israeli population had been vaccinated; and that 60% was the older generation; hence why at the time it was the younger, yet to be vaccinated, generation that was falling ill with covid; not the older, already vaccinated generation.
This is the mindset of a quetionable character.
A person with a scientific mindset should follow up with the basic scientific method. That's the only way to show the world you're trained scientifically. On the other, if one discover something new and his helpful to mankind it should be investiate by a known process that is universal. Otherwise keep it to yourself and enjoy the harm it can do. For they're two side to a coin or toss card.
Found that I only used about 10% that was useful from school. Yet I won more world championship in sculpture and world record sculpture scale than anyone I know. Very few people have traveled as much. We won't go as far with pre programed polictical science. Yet science as a branch in your life will achieve everyone of your dreams you can imagine.
So, my next question, if you go to see a physician in the UK with asthma, what is the first course of treatment? Do they attempt to cure it initially with a solution involving drugs, or do they recommend the drug-free Buteyko breathing method? I am going to say they will initially try a drug-based solution. This is because of the worldwide power of the pharmaceutical companies. It's the way it is done all over the world, except for places like Russia and other Eastern European countries and some parts of Australia. The Buteyko breathing is usually not tried or recommended until the drug-based treatments aren't successful or not successful enough.
In the UK, in the first instance you will be offered an inhaler; but this isn’t for the reason you give, because of the following:-
• The NHS (National Health Service) in the UK is Government owned and run, and paid for from the taxpayer’s money; hence it’s run on a tight budget.
• The NHS is ‘FREE’ Universal healthcare, given to ‘All’ at the point of use for ‘free’; so it’s in the UK’s Government’s interest not to spend money on drugs unnecessarily.
• Consequently, the emphases is on saving money in the NHS through efficiency and cost effectiveness, thus (based on 2017 data) the cost of the NHS in the UK is £2,989 ($4,162) per person, compared to the average of £3,663 ($5,101) per person in the EU, and £7,736 ($10,773) per person in the USA.
• Unlike the USA, in the UK Pharmaceutical Companies are prohibited in dealing directly with the NHS. Pharmaceutical Companies have to negotiate with NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) who approve and buy medical drugs on behalf of the NHS. NICE is an independent Government Department, and thus their interest is value for money for the taxpayer, and a balance between value for money and quality of service for the NHS.
What is NICE guidance? https://youtu.be/npFz9qRrpeg
The reason the NHS will offer an inhaler in the first instance is because the NHS is driven by ‘evidence based’ (scientific evidence), and thus while drug based solutions are well tried and tested and proven to be effective in most cases; alternative treatments are less proven. Yes, from what I’ve seen on the web the Buteyko breathing method does seem to be effective; and even the NHS (on their website) acknowledge that “There's some evidence that breathing exercises can improve symptoms and reduce the need for reliever medicines in some people”. But until the evidence (in their eyes) becomes more compelling; then the NHS will only offer the Buteyko breathing method as an alternative after first trying the drug route; unless during the consultation period the patient insists on the Buteyko breathing method in the first instance, in which case their doctor will try to accommodate the patient’s wishes where possible.
One Area where the NHS has switched from pushing drugs to trying alternative treatment first is with ‘Depression’.
Up until 30 years ago if you went to your doctor complaining of Depression you would automatically be given ‘anti-depressant’ tablets. These days however, your doctor will refuse to issue you with ‘anti-depressant’ tablets until all other avenues have been tried:-
These days, if you visit your NHS doctor in the UK, complaining of depression:-
• In the first instance your NHS doctor will usually suggest waiting to see whether it improves on its own, while monitoring your progress. This is known as "watchful waiting". They may also suggest lifestyle measures such as exercise and self-help groups.
• Failing that, then the next step they offer is therapy.
• Then, as a last resort, if all else has failed, then you will be prescribed anti-depressants tablets.
Although the NHS may be slow on adopting alternative methods of treatment, because of the time it takes to trial new methods, it is at least far more broadminded than it was 30 years ago e.g. you can now get things like acupuncture and hypnosis on the NHS as free treatment. A good example being the NHS’s current trial period, where the NHS are running a pilot programme on 5,000 volunteers with type 2 diabetes, to see if diabetes is curable.
It all started a few years ago when an NHS Doctor did a series of Health Documentaries on BBC, and in one of the episodes he put 10 volunteers who had type 2 diabetes on a special diet for six weeks to see what effect it had on their blood sugar level; and to his surprise, after his short experiment for his TV Series, 3 of the 10 volunteers no longer had diabetes.
Since then two large scale studies have been carried out in the UK, and in one in particular over half of those who took part in the study were no longer diabetic after 1 year. Therefore the NHS has now extended the studies in the form of extensive trials across the UK; and if that is successful then this will become the NHS’s initial course of treatment, rather than going down the drug route.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/tre … rie-diets/
Thanks for all of the information.
Then, the treatment asthma is pretty much like it is in the United States. American citizens have access to all type of alternate treatments. Some choose to use them and others do not. I have no prove, other than experience in business, but I would bet the members of UKs NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) are treated very well by the pharmaceutical companies. It is the way of the world.
Nope, before I retired I worked for the Government all my working life, a civil servant, so I know first-hand how Government Departments operate in the UK.
One thing that the UK Government is very hot on is ensuring that their Departments are not compromised by favouritism e.g. a Company Boss offering to take a Government Official out to lunch (business lunch) or offering the Department free samples etc., are all (under British Law) classified as ‘Bribery and Corruption’ (a criminal offence).
So unlike Government Ministers (elected politicians) who do wine and dine diplomats and heads of states etc., Heads of Government Departments do have to play it by the book, and keep their affairs strictly business; and all contracts are tendered for in accordance with strict guidelines laid down by the Government.
Since 2008 NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence), a UK Government Department, has gone International e.g. now also using its expertise to help other nations (third world) to improve their Healthcare System (see video below):-
We are NICE International: https://youtu.be/TnxvduJ7xog
Plus also, as previous explained in this forum, NHS Hospitals have a close working relationship with local universities, with the mutual benefit for both Education/Training and for the Research and Development of medial drugs and treatments in-house (something which the NHS has a good record for); and which is a lot cheaper than buying drugs developed by pharmaceutical companies.
For example the BRI (Bristol Royal Infirmary) NHS Hospital, where my wife worked in Admin, before she retired, is partnered with Bristol University; and while my wife worked there it’s where the BRI in conjunction with Bristol University developed the “Bristol Stool Chart”, which is now use International around the world (see image below):-
"before I retired I worked for the Government all my working life, a civil servant,"
This explains all of your answers. It also explains your knowledge of how the UK government operates.
I wonder if someone from the UK without such a background would see things a bit different?
I've been to England, Wales and Scotland. I made friends with a guy from the UK army when I was deployed. I went to his country for a visit and he came to mine.
It was one of the most fun experiences I've ever had. I understood the people from the England most of the time, Scotland some of the time and it was a struggle to understand the people from Wales. I came to realize the United States and the UK try to achieve the same goals, we just go about it in different ways. Visiting the UK was a real good experience.
Yep, valid point; people who don’t work for an ‘organisation’ often have misconceptions about it, just as people who don’t live in a country or place often have misconceptions about those places e.g. I’ve got a better understanding of the Chinese because our close neighbours and friends (two doors up from us) are qualified medics from china. They immigrated to England because they wanted two children (which at the time was prohibited in China), and since have also become qualified medics in England. They both work at UWE (University of the West of England) doing R&D (Research & Development) of adapting Traditional Chinese Medical Practices into Western Orthodox healthcare e.g. the NHS. Whenever we have a BBQ we always invite them around for a drink and social chat, and on occasion they’ve given us useful medical advice.
Likewise, we’re also close friends to a family who run a local corner shop (food store) near us, who emigrated from India, and through socialising with them we’ve learnt a lot about India and its culture.
As regards our Celtic Nations (Scots, Welsh, Irish and Cornish), certainly there are quite striking difference between them and the English; which all makes for a richer British Culture. I can understand the Welsh easily enough, Bristol (where I live) is just a 20 minutes’ drive away from Wales; so we often nip over to Wales for day trips. However, we don’t get up North much, and certainly understanding the Scottish accent/dialect can be a struggle at times; as with English MP in Parliament:-
Tory MP fails to understand Glaswegian accent of SNP's David Linden: https://youtu.be/I4k8dR04TzA
The NHS, with over 1.3 million staff is the 5th largest employer in the world; serving a population of 66.7 million people e.g. about 1 in 50 people (2%) of the British population work for the NHS; so when you also take into account all the supply chains e.g. catering, cleaning, building maintenance, landscaping, medical supplies etc., then the NHS has a major positive impact on the British Economy.
How does the NHS in England work? (Shows some of the complexity of such a Government Organisation): https://youtu.be/DEARD4I3xtE
Another point to consider, which I forgot to mention above, is that in the UK Doctors are Government Employees and paid a fixed salary; so they have no interests or incentive to prescribe drugs for the sake of prescribing drugs; and besides they don't have the buying power e.g. it's the pharmaceutical department within the NHS who liaison with NICE for the purchase of drugs, not the doctor.
D'you mean to say that all medical doctors come under the service of the government and non operate privately?
Basically yes; and not just the doctors, but the ambulance service, hospitals and pharmacists etc., are all part of the NHS and all come under the service of the government (as government employees), and therefore don’t operate privately.
We are the NHS - A day in the life of a GP: https://youtu.be/lNXGfiO9dTM
It all stems back to 1948 when the Labour (Socialist) Government had to battle to persuade the doctors to give up their private practices and become part of the NHS: The Birth of the NHS.
The NHS: A Difficult Beginning https://youtu.be/-ywP8wjfOx4
It’s only the consultants who can choose to work privately if they so wish; but then when the NHS is a free service there isn’t much demand for private medicine; even the Royal Family uses the NHS; so most consultants will work for the NHS most of the time.
The only real exception being the Private Doctors in Harley Street in London who specialises in areas not covered by the NHS e.g. ‘vanity surgery’ (cosmetic surgery).
Thanks a lot for the information. Nigeria was a former British subject. I was born in 1956. And I start school at 6. After the Nigerian-Biafra civil war, I was admitted into secondary grammar school. In those days, we boys and girls do get sick and took sick papers to see a doctor at any one of the nearby public(government) hospitals. Man, seeing is believing. I was even provide with a BIG lucozade free beside drugs. Even when Nigeria won independence(1960) from the British Government, medical treatment continue to be free. In !978 I left school but visit my hospital for a problem and I was supply with a can of glucose. All the would be as a result of the British public medical foundation. But all are now past tense. Nowadays every person-rich or poor, employed or student pays for treatment in a government hospital.
It's sad that you have to now pay for medical treatment in Nigeria, when, as you said, it was free when you was a child; a rather retrograde step.
Much more than sad. Hence the majority that can't afford the means took to alternative(fringe) not the certify( homoepath) medicine. Although the politician are aware of the trend, there's not much there can do. They're the genesis of Nigeria's health problem. Recently, Nigerian President retired Major-General Muhamadu Buhari had a two week medical check up in London. What's wrong with Nigerian hospitals? Some 8 years ago, there is this General Hospital, later (University of Port HarCourt Teaching Hospital), the first foremost health faclity in my State. It was build by the British Government. But the then Governor Chibiko Ameachi, now a Federal Minister of Transport uproot the hospital with no sign of another. About $100 billion he budget for a new world class hospital did not find the light of day during his tenure.
Awful? Here's a surprise. And when the governor left office, $100 million was found in a private building in far away Lagos, after whistle blowing. No one dare make bold to own up the $100 million. So the present governor beg President Muhamadu Buhari to release the money to him. But that was turn down and the money transfer to the Central Bank of Nigeria. Obviously, many governors who had a second tenure in office deemed it qualified to be a president. So public money can be hoard for election campaign.
this year, Pfizer had the largest share of the pharmaceutical market in the UK with 8.2 percent of the market, followed by Novartis with six percent.
Castlepaloma, why the the detour like stance?
I was answering Nathanville.
Must of sipped a space.
And Your Point is Castlepaloma?
FYI: The UK has the third-highest share of global pharmaceutical Research and development (R&D) expenditure of any nation, with 9% of the total cost worldwide.
Further to my comments above; an idea of what it's like to be an NHS Doctor in a Rural Area in the UK:-
What's it like training and working as a rural GP in Scotland: https://youtu.be/i1hIdOOdMCc
Here is a breakdown of COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people in all 50 U.S. states and Washington, D.C. The data was last updated April 27.
People have told me, that i havd never face anything more dangerous than covid. Oh but I have.
Beside 2 deaths in nova Scotia this year, 5000 deaths will die of heart disease, which suppressed from a physical check every 3 mouth, to a phone call check up once a year.
Been through worst like in 65 tropical countries, 2nd house in Belize, where masquito kill more than covid by far.
Also born in 1954
Update covid deaths US
Covid per 100,000 is 19 death
Covid didn't exist before 2019. Give freedom or give me death by flu, for its a lot worst than covid.
Made a mistake those were for Canada stats. When I said I have face worst danger in disease and viruses than covid in my lifetime. The subconscious went to where I spent most of my life,
'Covid didn't exists before 2019. Give freedom or death by flu...its a lot worst than covid.' Castlepalo, I've got you! Herein is the link into your mindset. And you're not dim witted enough. It translate to sayinp you're a pinochio and easily given to any weird form real or imagine. I research your posts/replies/discussions on covid in the forum. Have you forgot where you remark virus causing covid is billions of years older than mankind? How come freedom or death worst than covid? Death if temporary like sleep release you from all tension. Actually, covid brings pain. If you're not careful in the manner you use your mind, you'll get a lot of mental challenges.
Sorry your right, I'm a strong visual artist person of action. Words is not my strong suit, Better expressing in comedy than an academically. I really mean is covid didn't exist as a serious problems before 2019 like the flu. Many mutations bacteria and microorganism and viruses go back a billion years in a pool of cosmic soup like how Darwin's expresses. Yet who really knows.
My religion is nature not this technology religion most people are following like sheep.
You heard the French say give me liberty or give me death.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Everything I ever achieved in my life was all once imagined. Technology wealthy can harms our imagination and creativity which will force us all into their slavery. They will not win in the long run, just like to limit the suffering.
Jeff Bezos is a controlling trillionaire and many billionaires are all literally making a killing over this covid mutations manifested through fear. Love and kindness is the only thing that is penetrative through this thick skin.
Even my daughter, thought I was nuts taking about these stuff 10 years ago. Not now, she is seeing mostly its unfolding like I said somewhat like it is. The terrorist have gotten a ways to go yet.
There is nothing wrong with a good imagination, and in being artistic. I have a good imagination, and a limited artistic flare. But it is important to not be swallowed up by your imagination and to live in the real world; to put some trust into the sciences & technology. It may surprise you to earn that in the real world governed by science and technology that you can still have your own personal individual freedom, individuality, and imagination, and be as artistic as you like.
Arthur, I agree entirely with you. I also has a keen imagination but I can't live entire on imagination or the subconcious mind. How can a person? The realm of the imagination like the sub-consious mind is beging the scientific method for a proof or its realtity. Even a personalty no less than God though exists, can't be imagine. So the Courts stop a person calling God as a witness, correct? But Castlepalo who says his religion is nature...how can imagination be submissive(a slave) to nature? Can anyone imagine that? When the goal of the sub concious is to conquer and dorminate nature! That's what science does for example in puting man on the moon!
Here is the first man who orbit the earth and directed the first man on the moon..
John Glenn said our sandsculpture of his space ship was so realistic it warmed his heart. He explain to me how the heat shield saved his life on reentry. We talk about how magic of imagination co-exist with science.
You two are probably better at academics than me. When it come to realistic stuff.
Then you two don't compare, to building 25 world records scale sculptures. Plus built the largest sculpture of any kind of material in the world of a 6 acres parks. Plus several top historic museums displays worldwide. Built 9 houses of different materials. Dominate my county for my type of variety of organic foods.
I don't think you two guy come close to my category of manifesting products with as high of skills Or as high level in scientific accomplishments.
I may not be as artistic as you, but I don’t think you can claim that you have a higher level of scientific accomplishments than us; especially as you are so sceptical of science; and besides, if you’d read some of my DIY projects on HubPages you’ll see that I am too quite adapt at manifesting products e.g. my speciality in DIY being upcycling, recycling and repurposing.
Besides, what has your artistic skills have to do with your dismissal attitude towards covid, and your anti-vax stance etc? Or with the topic in hand e.g. your distrust of orthodox healthcare.
When the flu death for most years of my life. Of each of those years, flu deaths would be higher than covid death of one year. All we need to do was stay home, sleep, water, stay away from people. Not lockdown a country, a province, even a city. Lockdown jobs, lockdown of health care to most other health conditions. Plus , debt, love ones, family, shopping, cafe and it keeps going on and on until people die from every kind of thing imaginable . Total Maddness
Castlepalo, if that's your stand go ahead. And your like-minds? None has identify with ya here! Sorry just your daughter? And what a pity!
A few years ago, had collective attendance of 18 million people where I was the major feature at each event.
You're still imagining?And you imagine 18 million persons? Great! But don't you imagine 18 billion(not million) persons really small? That that said here my imagination could go...18 trillion as much as the Andromedia Galaxy or the expanding universe. Don't be a Pinochio now. More so, your imagination seems to conflict with you will. Get help.
I get tired of people who think I lying about being sandsculptor
This sculpture is life size carved by two people in 2 days. It's one display out of 20 different displays of the history of Oklahoma. The World largest in door sandsculpture in the world.
Castlepaloma, I don't know where you got your data from, but its wrong; covid deaths in the USA is NOT 19 per 100,000 as you claim; its currently 176.9 per 100,000 and rising e.g. almost 10 times higher than you're claiming.
I recorrected my post with...
I Made a mistake those were for Canada stats. When I said I have face worst danger in disease and viruses than covid in my lifetime. The subconscious went to where I spent most of my life,
Canada or in the tropical places.
My subconscious & imagination and its data is far more powerful then you just using your consciousness enslaved by GIANT ELITIST data. Which is based absolute power structure. WEF is gaining power that you ignore. Absolute power always corrupts.
I predicted 10 years ago by intuitive (extreme logic) that the powers to be would create something that would kill as much people as the second world war. Covid is just one small tool, they will stop at nothing totally own your academic soul.
Since everything I had achieved in my entire life was all once imagined. Why would I give up a successful life with my favorite tool of imagination. It's most credited for manifested a loving what i do for most waking hours of my life. Why would I replace it for technology giant elitist trillionaire and billionaires who heavily surveillance our every move then report a common decent person who disagree or protest them. Then lock them up as a terrorist.
They bought your academic soul, hook, line and sinker.
Again what? I don't live in a limited box like most.
So what if I don't subscribe to the wizard of OZ, what then? Just love with no harm is all I want to share.
The problem is you don't share 'no harm' as you claim; your views and actions are putting other peoples lives at risk.
https://hubpages.com/politics/-Fun-Arti … prediction
I made prediction about 10 years ago on hugepage of an other articles. That this world order will collapse in around this time today. Because I know my history from where we are coming from and where we are going. I built many historical museum displays around the world. Yes, history and fantasy are my favourite subjects. Yet there is a fine line between them.
For example this pirates sunken Treasure museum in ST. Peterborough Florida US. Christopher Columbus was the first pirates in North America. First for Christianity, first European native slavery & genocides. First for the gold rush.
FYI the world order isn't collapsing; the money markets are still running, stocks and shares are still viable; banks are still in business; world trade is still in progress.
There may be economic slumps in a lot of the countries around the world; but as each country gets on top of the covid pandemic (as the UK is doing) then trade and business will pick up again, and a level of normality return.
Correct. Our rebuttal is a warning to other people to becarefull of false and misleading information. The wolf may put on sheep's clothing.
You don't understand my...you're still behaving weird. I reason your imagination and will murt be conflicting.
Who boxing you into a box? No one boxing you into a box. You're free your own way. Thanks.
When one has imagination, fearlessness and sticktoitiveness. Life is limitless and boundless. Most are living in small box of limits.
That’s not true. It might be your perception of people; but I know plenty of people who can be creative, and think out of the box, yet have their feet firmly planted in the real world. If you read some of my HubPage Articles on DIY you’ll see that I frequently work outside of the box.
https://www.google.com/search?q=History … MrA3E,st:0
Before you down the once most agricultural plant in the world watch this. 1.1 million dollars an acre vs rice for $300 an acre
Nope, Castlepaloma, I am not enslaved by giant elitists, and the WEF don’t have don’t have any real power; all that is just lies spread by conspiracy theories which you’ve bought into hook, line and sinker. I live a free and independent life just like most people in the western democracies.
In paragraph three above you’re claiming that covid is a deadly disease, that is killing more people than the Second World War; yet you also consistently claim that you refuse to get vaccinated or wear a mask because in your view covid isn’t very deadly: Which seems to be a contradiction.
Besides, covid was NOT created by any evil entity (the powers to be, as you put it); covid was a natural occurrence of a virus jumping species from bats to humans: A natural occurrence that happens periodically e.g. swine flu, aviation flu etc.
Most are economical enslaved by giant elitists. That is why most are dissatisfied with their work for most hours of their lives, The Greatest pet pev and waste of time in life, I can imagine.
WEF will keep trying and been gaining with covid brilliantly mastering the masses to bringing them to their knees. Yet it won't work. My prediction from history patterns and writing on the wall shows the pendulum swings extremely the other way.
Your an atheist nationalism kind, not the kind rarely for new ways of thinking. Rarely having human rights because mostly being stuck on privileges they give out. Its not a true, democracy because high technology and politics/media fakes control your thinking like most. I said the covid is a small tool. About 70 million won't dead of covid, its everything else that are lives are lockdown from that will be the mass killer. Technology and machinery is the new religion, UN, Gates and most elites described a great reducing in population. Greed is the worst virtue of all.
I obey laws of masks (yet not in agreement) force passport injection, will reject with all my might. Mandated up your $$$. I showed a few things in my personal lifetime will kill me far greater than the covid. I just don't run around like chicken little or herd mentality screaming the sky is falling upon the world.
Evil maybe the absence reason, don't claim to know. Don't think covid was invented. Yet the mutations can be altered or a natural occurrence of a virus do jump to different species.
Yep Castlepaloma, that’s where you are assuming that the whole world is just like the USA; a common mistake that you keep making.
FYI, unlike the USA, in Europe (including the UK) most people are NOT “economically enslaved by giant elitists”; and as I’ve stated previously, most European workers do get job satisfaction, even in the UK 64% of workers are happy with their job.
In the USA people are enslaved to their job because if they lose their job they lose their medical insurance that’s financed by their employer.
In contrast the UK Healthcare is FREE regardless to whether you work or not.
In the USA people get poor working conditions with little security e.g. they are lucky if they get two weeks paid leave (vacation) per year, and no paid maternity leave for mothers; plus employees can be sacked at a moment’s notice in the USA for no real reason.
In contract in the UK everyone gets six weeks paid leave (vacation), and not only do mothers get paid maternity leave, but in the UK even fathers get a minimum of two weeks paid paternity leave. Plus, in the UK, once you’ve been in employment for more than two years; it is extremely difficult for your employer to sack you.
Plus in the UK, if you are unemployed or on a low wage, then the benefits you get from the Welfare State is rather generous compared to the meagre benefits you get in the USA; so in the UK people are more willing to chuck their job in if they are not satisfied with it, and go on the doll (unemployment) until they get another job that they prefer.
The WEF is no trying to bring the masses to their knees; I don’t know which world you live in; but in the UK the masses are not on their knees, and it’s the democratically elected government that runs the country anyway, not the WEF.
When you say the UK is not a true democracy, and that our (the voters) thinking is controlled; you don’t know what you’re talking about e.g. you do not understand the British politics. Granted, it’s not a perfect democracy, but it works and the views of all poetical parties are heard. FYI, there are major elections due across England next week; which should prove interesting.
As regards covid passports (for international travel); I don’t know about the USA, but across Europe it will not be necessary to get vaccinated to get a covid passport; having a recent negative covid test will be sufficient.
You already know that I know that US is in worst shape than Canada and UK. It's now beyond just the US world influence worldwide. It's just your not aware how close the one world order is now playing for the end game.
Perhaps European are not as difficult over covid passports as North America. Certainly covid is harming everything across the map here.
There is NO ‘One World Order’ and ‘No End Game’; all that is just conspiracy theories. Politics and Economics are subjects I studied and passed my exams in at college; so I am perfectly aware on the political and economic status of the world.
Yep, of course covid is harming everything; it’s a deadly disease: But once the vaccines have been rolled out sufficiently to achieve herd immunity then life can return back to normal; as it has done in Gibraltar e.g. no covid deaths in over two months, and in recent days, all covid restrictions (including masks) have now been abolished:-
Gibraltar's vaccine success shows a glimmer of the future (video from 5 weeks ago): https://youtu.be/bnN5mdblvRk
With most vaccinated, Gibraltar eases mask rules (video from 4 weeks ago): https://youtu.be/uUS_al-AQ5k
Arthur, I'm a student of the British Constitution. Thanks for the information that relates to democracy. Britain is a true welfare state unlike any other in the world.
I think the liberal US media has been telling lots of lies about life here in the United States.
"In the USA people get poor working conditions with little security e.g. they are lucky if they get two weeks paid leave (vacation) per year, and no paid maternity leave for mothers; plus employees can be sacked at a moment’s notice in the USA for no real reason."
That isn't really true. Some of the best working conditions in the world are found in the United States. Two weeks is usually the norm for people just starting with a company. Guess what? It is now law for companies to provide paid maternity leave. No, you can't be "sacked" at any time for no good reason. You can be terminated for cause. If you don't do your job, are a problem, harming the company, etc. Yes, you can get let go. But, if you choose to behave this way at work, you need to be let go. So, in the UK every person who doesn't do their work, is disruptive, causes problems, will have a job no matter how much damage they cause the company? Seems a bit insane to me.
It's good that in the UK 64 percent of workers are happy with their job. In the United States the number is 85 percent
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/01/85perce … 0dwspiegel
"In the USA people are enslaved to their job because if they lose their job they lose their medical insurance that’s financed by their employer."
That's right. We have something called Medicare and Medicaid for disabled and disadvantaged people and numerous other health insurance plans to help people who don't have health insurance. In the United States we have something you don't have in the UK, it's called options. We don't have to just accept a single government plan, we have a wide variety of healthcare plans to choose from that cover many things.
"Plus in the UK, if you are unemployed or on a low wage, then the benefits you get from the Welfare State is rather generous compared to the meagre benefits you get in the USA; so in the UK people are more willing to chuck their job in if they are not satisfied with it, and go on the doll (unemployment) until they get another job that they prefer."
So, where is the incentive to work? If you don't have to do anything to support yourself and just live off the government, why would anyone work? The United States has the highest standard of living for any country with a population over 300 million. People who just live off the government are looked down upon.
All this and STILL there are homeless in the UK. Why?
At this point NO covid Passports are required in the United States
Employers in the US may let you go from your job without cause, absent a contract to do otherwise. Just as employees can leave the job for any reason. Seems quite fair and equitable to me.
Upon leaving, the employee has the option to continue their medical insurance at their own expense. Also seems more than fair to me.
IMO the US has the highest standard of living in the world. Of course it depends on what your personal priorities are; those who indicate European countries to don't prioritize things the way I do.
Thanks for the clarity:-
You say two weeks ‘annual leave’ is usually the norm in the USA for people just starting with a company. In the UK it’s six weeks from day one.
It’s good to hear you do get paid maternity leave in the USA; how much do you get in the USA, in the UK it’s 39 weeks paid maternity leave, and two weeks paid paternity leave; albeit under the equal opportunities laws the wife can give most of her maternity leave to the husband if she so wishes (aka parental leave).
As regards getting the sack; after two years employment to be sacked in the UK the reason has to within the confines of the law, and the Company will have to have gone through a strict set of procedures in the first instance e.g. two verbal warnings and a written warning. And even then the person who is sacked has a legal right to an Industrial Tribunal, which in the UK is a FREE Service run by ACAS (Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service). ACAS is an ‘independent’ Government Department.
Mock Employment Tribunal UK - What happens in an employment tribunal? https://youtu.be/71wxEjFys6g
It’s good to hear that job satisfaction is high in the USA. As regards healthcare, in the UK everyone, regardless to whether they are on a high income or unemployed are all entitled to the ‘same’ high level of care (for FREE); and that I am grateful for e.g. having spent three weeks in hospital earlier this year (kidney infection), the hospital have done countless tests, using loads of different medical equipment, such as various types of scans and x-rays etc. all to check my whole body from lungs, heart, and all other vital organs; and since being discharged from hospital I still have to go back as a day patient every few weeks for follow up checks; and all this is costing me ‘NOTHING’. Whereas, if all the equipment used on me, and my hospital stay, along with the initial ambulance ride to hospital when I was first admitted was added up, in the USA the bill would run into $10s of thousands of dollars, and on my pension I probably wouldn’t be able to afford it.
So I’d rather have ‘free’ universal healthcare for all, than have a ‘choice’ that I can’t afford.
Yep, you are partially right about the question of the incentive to work in the UK. I do know people (close friends of ours) who have quite happy lived off the State most of their life, with hardly doing a day’s paid work in their life. But for most people, they have ‘self-pride’ e.g. they feel better to have a job and be working than sponging off the state; and besides, if you are working then you are financially better off.
Yep, there are homeless in the UK, as in any country; but the problem is much smaller than in the USA e.g. we don’t have the ghettos. In the UK, it’s a legal requirement by Local Governments to house people who become homeless; hence Council Houses. So most people who are more permanently homeless in the UK tend to be those who don’t want or seek help e.g. drug addicts and or mentally ill etc.
FYI a Council House is ‘Social Housing’ build and owned by local government, specifically to provide housing to the low paid and unemployed; and if you can’t afford the rent e.g. unemployed, then the National Government will pay your rent for you anyway (Housing Benefit).
Question: What is your income tax rate? I've heard that it's pretty high. I'd like to see a comparison of tax rates in the U.K. and the U.S.A. There can be a discussion of whom is better off, free services and high tax rate or moderate tax rate and pay for services.
There are places or organizations where a person can get help when he or she has high medical bills. My mother, who was on medicare got help paying for some cancer treatments that she couldn't afford. I can't say from which organization because the hospital did all the paperwork, and we never really knew where the help came from.
By the way, to set the record straight, the "liberal media" gets blamed for a lot of things that conservatives don't like in the U.S. We do have a conservative media, and they DON'T LIKE ANYBODY.
It's nearly impossible to compare taxes between countries because there are so many varied taxes and fees. Income taxes (state and federal) are only a part of what we pay - property taxes, personal property taxes, sales taxes, FICA...I even pay a tax (mandated, with no choice) for irrigation water for my lawn. It is never ending, and that doesn't include the myriad of "fees" tacked onto the top - more taxes with a different nomenclature.
Perhaps a better indication is what the govt. spends compared to the GDP of the country.
Yep, wilderness’s reply is spot on; I’ve tried making these comparisons with Americans before, and as wilderness says, there are just too many variables. And as wilderness says, looking at the GDP figures gives a better overall picture.
However, I can give some of the basics; and you can see how that compares:-
Tax on Wages in the UK:-
There are two types of taxes on wages in the UK; called income tax & national insurance; both are collected by your employer before you get paid, the system called PAYE (Pay As You Earn), and it means that in the UK you don’t have to do any annual tax forms, because you’ve already paid your taxes on earnings.
National Insurance is a tax on wages designed to cover the cost of the welfare state e.g. NHS, State Pension, Unemployment Benefit etc.
For National Insurance:
• The first £9,568 ($13,200) per year you earn is tax free.
• Anything you earn between £9,568 ($13,200) & £50,336 ($69,500) is taxed at 12% for your National Insurance Tax.
• Any earnings above £50,336 ($69,500) are taxed at 2%.
For the Income Tax:-
• The first £12,570 ($17,360) per year you earn is tax free.
• Anything you earn between £12,571 ($17,360) & £50,270 ($69,440) is taxed at 20% for your Income Tax.
• All earning between £50,271 ($69,440) & £150,000 ($207,000) are taxed at 40%, and
• Any earnings above £150,000 ($207,000) is taxed at 45%
Working Tax Credits (the opposite to paying taxes) in the UK:-
For people in employment, but earning less than £13,100 ($17,900) per year, the government pays you up to £2,005 ($2,770) per year to help supplement your income.
Also, people on a low income, or unemployed, who are in rented accommodation, can qualify for the Government to pay their rent for them (aka Housing Benefit).
In our case, because my wife is partially disabled e.g. bad back, she gets PIP (Personal Independent Payment) from the Government of £4,659 ($6,435) per year. PIP being what used to be called the ‘Disability Allowance’. And because my wife qualifies for PIP, I then get paid £3,515 ($4,855) per year by the Government as her ‘Official Carer’. And because my wife & I get the Social Welfare (PIP & Carer’s Allowance) each Christmas we also get our £10 ($13.80) bonus payment from the Government. The £10 Government bonus payment was a traditional started by a Conservative Government back in 1974 as a ‘gesture of good will’ (Christmas Spirt); and every UK Government has honoured the tradition ever since!
FYI both I and my wife are now retired (early retirement), so apart from the above our only income is our works pensions, until we reach State Pension Age. I and my wife retired at 55, I was a civil servant and my wife worked in Admin for the NHS. We’ve worked all our lives (paying our taxes) and we own our home (mortgaged paid off).
Other taxes in the UK include VAT (Value Added Tax) on sale of goods and services, at 20% (similar to your ‘Sales Tax’).
As regards Local Government Taxes, in the UK that’s just basically a tax on the value of your property, the tax is called ‘Rate’; and effectively works out to be about 2% per year on the value of your house e.g. only home owners and business pay local taxes; not people who rent.
I note wilderness has to pay a tax for watering his lawn, even if he doesn’t. Where I live (as in many parts of the UK) the water is still unmetered, just a fixed fee water bill, so we can use as much water as we like without paying more for what we use. Many years ago there used to be a hosepipe fee payable to your Local Government, if you used a hose pipe, of about £6 ($8) a year, but that was unenforceable, so its long be ditched as a requirement.
*shudder* Your total taxes (less the smaller ones) appear to be somewhere around 70% of your income; nearly 3/4 of what you earn is taken from you and either used for govt./national needs or given out as charity. Completely unacceptable in this country. We only declare that "rich" people are treated in that manner; our greed does not extend to taking nearly that much from the average citizen.
Interestingly, I'm sure that I'm in one of the few areas of the country with an irrigation water tax. This area is classified as "high desert", and while there are two rivers running through it the annual rainfall is quite low. Canals were dug over 100 years ago (think pick axes, shovels and mules) to water much of the valley; without that we would live in a land of sage brush rather than crops, trees, flowers and lawns. All new subdivisions are required, by law, to provide pressurized irrigation to each house lot, and the tax pays for the maintenance of the system. The water is not potable, but is fine for watering the lawn.
It's much cheaper than paying for potable water to give your lawn and flowerbeds a drink - I pay around $100 per year for all I want to use. As such, I don't mind this particular tax at all; I pay for what I get and get what I pay for. The biggest problem, and it's a very big one, is that every year we lose a child or two that decides it looks like fun to play in the canals. The water is swift, very cold and banks are steep and people die in them.
I’m not sure wilderness, where you get the 70% of income being taken as taxes:-
• Tax in wages for the average person is 32%, and
• Tax on goods & services (VAT) is similar to your Sales Tax.
Everything else I mentioned above is what the Government pays you, not what you pay the Government.
12% national insurance, 40% income and 20% VAT. 72%, recognizing that not every dollar earned is subject to the VAT. Actually, considering that the first 52% is taken as taxes, the VAT applies to well under half the earnings, lowering the figure some. I also recognize that the first bit of earnings is not subject to tax, again reducing the total.
In very (very) rough figures that's about 20-30% (of total earnings) more than Americans will pay, or about enough to cover the much higher charity the UK gives out.
No, 20% VAT is not similar to our Sales Tax (except in concept); it is at least double what we pay, and usually more. Some states do not even have a sales tax, and neither does the federal government.
I just bought a new car, one that is available only in two states near me and a handful 2,000 miles away. I searched one of those two (California) for cars and found some...but also discover that, unlike most other states, California will require I pay their 9.5-10% sales tax. As I would only owe 6% in my state that's a increase in price of 4% - my reaction was to not even consider supporting California Businesses if that's what they demand and bought in the only other state nearby that had what I wanted (they charged $0 sales tax, allowing my own state to get their 6% when I registered the car). That's what Americans think of taxes.
As regards your basis that in the UK taxes on wages is 12% (national insurance) and 40% (income tax), total (52%) that is only applicable to high earners; not the average UK worker. The average UK worker pays 12% national insurance and 20% income tax (32% total) on their wages.
Plus, as per figures I gave above, the tax payable is in bands e.g. you don’t pay the full amount on all earnings, so the actual tax you pay is a lot less than first appears; as per examples below:-
Example A: A Person Earning the Minimum Legal Wage for Full Time Working = £19,271 ($26,731) per year.
• First £9,568 ($13,274) is tax free
• NI tax paid at 12% on the remaining £9,703 ($13,462) = £1,164 ($1,615) NI tax to pay
• The 1st £12,571 ($17,440) is exempt from income tax, and the remainder is 20% tax = £1,340 ($1,859) income tax to pay.
• Total Taxes on wages = £2,504 ($3,473), which equals 13% tax payable on earnings.
Example B: The Average UK Wage = £29,744 ($41,827) per year.
• First £9,568 ($13,274) is tax free
• NI tax paid at 12% on the remaining £32,259 ($44,740) = £3,871 ($5370) NI tax to pay
• The 1st £12,571 ($17,440) is exempt from income tax, and the remainder is 20% tax = £5,851 ($8,115) income tax to pay.
• Total Taxes on wages = £9,722 ($13,482), which equals 23% tax payable on earnings.
Example C: A Higher Wage Earner on £100,000 ($138,820) per year.
• First £9,568 is tax free
• NI tax paid at 12% on their earnings between £9,568 ($13,200) & £50,336 ($69,500) = £4,892 ($6,785) NI tax to pay.
• NI tax to pay on the remaining earning’s at 2% = £993 ($1,377 NI tax to pay
• The 1st £12,571 is exempt from income tax, and earning between £12,571 ($17,360) & £50,270 ($69,440) is 20% tax = £7,540 ($10,458) income tax to pay.
• The earning from £50,270 ($69,440) to £100,000 ($138,820) is then taxed at 40% income tax = £19,892 ($27,587) income tax to pay.
Total Taxes on wages = £4,892 + £993 + £7,540 + £19,892 = total £33,317 ($46,214): Which equals 33.3% tax payable on earnings.
OK, wilderness, I understand where you are coming from now; and thanks for the clarity on ‘Sales Tax’ in the USA.
For clarity the 20% VAT isn’t on all goods, for example:-
• Children clothes are VAT exempt,
• VAT on essential services such as electricity is only 5%.
• While VAT is chargeable on food if you eat out e.g. in a restaurant or café; food bought in a Take-Away, such as a chip shop or McDonalds is also exempt from VAT.
And obviously VAT is only applicable on NEW Goods e.g. 2nd hand goods are VAT free; so for example you’ll pay a 20% VAT on a new car, but now VAT when buying a second-hand car.
Also, ‘Sole Traders’ with a low turnover are exempt from charging VAT; so for example if you pay a Construction Company to build a wall in your front garden, you’ll pay 20% VAT; but if you get a small scale self-employed builder to build the wall then you’ll pay no VAT.
So in summary, how much of what you spend covers VAT is dependent on how and where you spend your money; and although there are too many variables to calculate what percentage of what you spend goes on tax; on balance the actual figure is likely to be closer to 10% than 20%.
SO in conclusion; in the UK, even someone on a high wage is likely to be paying about one third in taxes on their income, and not the 50% you surmised. Also, as I tried to clarify above VAT (similar in principle to your Sales Tax) in the USA, isn’t on ALL Goods, it’s a little more complex than that, and at the end of the day the total people end up spending that goes on VAT isn’t going to be the 20% but more like 10% of their spending.
In Nigeria, VAT was shun and dislike by the public. So the government only tried to enforced VAT on any goods and services from $1 in any big departmental store. The same goods and services bought in the open market VAT is not paid. For example, a mini size Lipton Tea same price bought in the open market and big stores, 2% is comput in the big store. Any re-charge or credit card consumption on phones eg calls, and SMS are VAT. VAT will include electricity consumption, but not kerosine, petrol, and dissel. VAT is mostly enforced on big companies and stores, who then pass it to the consummers.
Your answer posted to my question doesn't make sense. In a way it answered it, but it also confused me. Did you intend it to post it to Wilderness or me?
It is much the same in the US. While sales tax varies enormously, most (or all) states exempt some items. My state, for example, requires sales tax on groceries...but then refunds it when I file taxes at the end of the year. "Service" is not taxed - if I hire a lawn mower there is no sales tax, but if they spread fertilizer I will pay tax on the fertilizer itself.
Tax brackets are the same here - you don't pay the bracket on all of it, only a portion. But the end result is much the same - UK residents pay much higher taxes than we do in the US. Those freebies, notably "free" healthcare, are paid for in some manner, and that manner is through taxes.
Yep, the emphasis on the NHS (National Health Service) is that it’s “Universal Healthcare FREE to ALL at the Point of Use” e.g. it’s paid for through the taxes so that no one has to worry about whether they can afford health insurance or not, and no one is denied the full healthcare available even if they don’t earn enough to pay taxes. And there isn’t a choice on what type of healthcare you get in the UK; everyone gets the ‘same’ high standard.
The same applies for all the other ‘Social & Welfare’ Benefits, they’re paid for from taxes (spreading the cost like an insurance policy); so that when you need or quality for the benefit it’s there for you.
Whether we pay significantly higher taxes in the UK than the USA or not, British people still have money in their pockets to spend on luxury items and holidays; so it’s not as if we are greatly deprived in any way, especially when we know that if we fall ill or have an accident we’ll get full medical care, including an ambulance, and any subsequent prescriptions, all for free.
Filling in tax returns each year, as you do in the USA, seems rather strange to me: I’ve never filled in a tax form in the whole of my life, simply because when I was working my employer did it for me e.g. PAYE (Pay As You Earn), which is where your employer deducts the taxes from your wage before you get paid. So that what you get in your pay packet is your NET pay (pay after taxes deducted).
The Pay As You Earn(PAYE) is common in Nigeria. The foundation was laid by the British Government. At the end of the month, income taxe on earnings, and other deductions like pensions fund, housing fund, and union dues were deducted. All the later deductions can hardly find the light of the day when it comes to reality. Let me explain. I retired from the civil service after 34 years 7 months. That's in May 2015. In April 2019, incumbent President Muhammend Buhari of Nigeria released the sum of N2 trillion Nigerian Naira to ALL the 36 states governors. His two specific instructions to the governors are (a) pay salary, pensionr, and gratuity arrears; and (b) invest the balance in economic and infrastructural development. Six years on or later, I and my colleagues are yet to be paid pensions and gratuity arrears.
Yep, Miebakagh the PAYE system that you describe for Nigeria, is exactly as it is in the UK e.g. as well as having the tax on income deducted each month from your pay packet, before you get paid; all the other deduction including pensions, union dues etc., are also deducted.
It’s a system I like because when you get paid (Net Pay), what you get is yours to spend e.g. no worrying about putting money aside to cover taxes and health etc.
Arthur, Yes, I agree. But at the end of the day or your term of service, don't you get paid besides your monthly pensions, any pensions arrear and gratuity? The Nigerian government are mostly addict in neglecting these arrears where funds were available.
Miebakagh, I’m not sure I fully understand your question. But I shall assume that you are asking what happens in the UK when people retire? If so, for retired people it’s a Government Department called ‘Works & Pensions’ that deals with all the admin (paperwork) for you e.g. ensure you get paid the right amount in your retirement, and that any taxes due are deducted before you get your pension and other benefits.
In my case I currently get paid my works pension monthly and my carers allowance paid weekly, after tax; all automatically dealt with by the Government at source; so that I don’t have to worry about anything e.g. no forms to fill in, no tax return etc., and when I reach State Retirement Age, I’ll also get my State Pension paid to me by the ‘Works & Pension’ Government Department.
I'm pondering over this and will post you again if need be. Just let me re-charge my phone's battery.
Arthur, you assume right to level with my thought. It seems you receives two payments-a weekly and monthly pay...how amazing. I also detected a third payment in the British Government pension system. Is that copect? Good as that is, the Nigerian monthly pensions is current as the British. But there's no weekly payment. Say you had not receive your monthly pens and it runs into months(pen arrears), the Nigerian government will neglected to pay, so it still runs into years as my case and others are. If a new governor is vote in, one can assume he'll be willing to pay what the present governor is not willing to pay.
Thanks for all the clarity Miebakagh, I understand now, and certainly it’s awful that you’re not being paid what you are owed by the Nigerian Government; that must be so depressing.
Now I’m retired e.g. I took early retirement when I was 55, the two payments I currently get from the Government, after any tax has been deducted are:-
1. My Works Pension, paid monthly, and
2. My Carers Allowance, paid weekly.
I get the Carers Allowance because my wife receives ‘disability allowance’ (PIP) from the Government (weekly payments) because she is partially disabled e.g. a bad back. And therefore because my wife gets the disability allowance for her illness I officially classified as her ‘Official Carer’ by the Government, and therefore the Government pays me to look after her.
The amount the Government pays my wife for being partly disabled is £89.60 $124) per week, and the amount the Government pays me for looking after her (her carer) is £67.60 ($94) per week.
The third payment (which will also be paid monthly) when I reach ‘State Retirement Age’ next year, will be my State Pension.
Early retirement here (62 years) results in lowering the social security payments. Before 62, you cannot draw those funds, outside of disability.
So retirement before 62 is difficult unless you have a large retirement account with your company of just a large amount of savings to live off of until you turn 62.
In Nigeria, you have to reach 60 years old or mark 35 years in the common servive before retiring with full benefit. All High Courts Justices are excempt from the age and service years. The 65 years or 40 years is yet to have a legal backing. An officer can retire here in Nigeria at 30 > but unless he/she has put in at most 10 years and attain the age of 50 years, such can't be paid any pensions benefit. Judges can retire at 70> or when they're no longer fit in mind and body.
I understand better now. Thank you. In Nigeria, disability allowance is out of the question. Even if one got injure during the service period as your wife. The none payment has depressed many pensioners(could the retiree be really called pensioners?). Some are now disable due to depression. Some have died. But certain like me have courage to get rid of depressions. What has worsten the issue is the current position of President Muhamadu Buhari of Nigeria, a puppet who could not check the governors of the 36 states. Past Presidents like Obansanjo, Ya'adua, Jonathan all check any state governor past spendings or statement of account before remiting another set of budget allocation for the state to them. Buhari failed woefully in this area.
Yep, wilderness, in the UK 55 is the earliest you can take early retirement; obviously by doing so your work’s pension is reduced accordingly to compensate; but if you have a good pension that you’ve built up over 40 years then what you get can still quite sizable; and besides you’ve still got the State Pension to look forward to from the age of 67 days.
Some people in the UK who would like to take early retirement at 55, but their work’s pension wouldn’t be enough for them to live off of until they get their State Pension, often take early retirement at or after 55 and then work part time to supplement their income until they get their State Pension at 67.
Arthur, that's correct and nothing could be further from the truth. I had to take the pain to point out this to Castlepaloma. Ca'a. claim to always use imagination and subconsious mind. No doubt. So is every strong academic qualified person. Apparently, either Castlepaloma's imagination is in conflict with his subconcious or concious mind. It appears the phychological law of reserve effort is working against him most times.
Phychological law of reserve effort is working against him most times.
I see I'm just wasting my time, enjoy the billionaires cub. Wait, your not in it.
Well you always have synthetic and poli-tricks.
In Nigeria, leave rules seems similar to the United Kingdom except that junior civil servants takes two weeks. The leave benefit or bonus is 10% of the basic annual salary. Companies both private and public have differing rates. Nevertheless, some firms choice to base they benefits on the civill service scale. That said, civil servants are the worst pcid class of workers in Nigeria. This is because the system is easily compromised with politic. Pensions and gratuity are hardly paid.
In Nigeria because lack of employment opportunities, tax payment seems to be doom. However every self employ person who registered they business place/name with the government are required to declare income returns on which tax is computed. At most 100% false returns were submitted. But the PAYE is common in the civil service and companies. Welfare befit like health is poor in the civil service. It's just $4.5 a month. There's no disability benefit As said emploment is a problem. In fact the government of the day gjact and politiczed it. For examle late last year 2020 my Rivers state Governor budget $2.5 to employ 5,000 youths. Still waiting till date
Folks, yes that's it that's great and motivating. We're digress or off topic in the mean time. Let's get back topically. Viagra or diagra? Today, I sliced 10 gram each of fresh ginger, green chilli; 5 gram sweet basil plus 60 gram raw cooked banana(green plantain) for Sun drying. When properly dried, and granded together is a sort of alternative medicine for erective dysfunction(ED). Seriously, there're other home made remedies more safe than viagra or diagra.
An interesting recipe as a remedy for a basic but not life threatening condition, all quite harmless ingredients; and if it is effective then it certainly would be better than taking Viagra.
It's certainly effective. Or I would not post such a response. Besides being safe, it improve the alkalinity of the blood, circulation, and heart health. The recipe is for persons who will not take the trouble to cook the the main meal from which the main ingredient is derived.
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