Alternative vs Complementary Medicine

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  1. Nathanville profile image92
    Nathanvilleposted 13 months ago

    #1:    Alternative Medicine is medical treatments that are used instead of traditional (modern) therapies.

    #2:    Complementary Medicine is medical treatments that are used in conjunction with traditional (modern) therapies.

    I’ve got nothing against the latter, the only proviso being that if you take complementary medical treatment that it’s advisable to consult your doctor in the event that the alternative treatment you’re considering may conflict with your existing treatment e.g. your local pharmacist will know if any herbs you’re proposing to take as complementary medicine will conflict with or complement any medication you’ve been prescribed by your doctor.

    However, in this day and age, in the modern western world where we have a good health system, alternative medicine is foolhardy (foolish).  Not mentioning any names, I know that one participant of these forums, whose username begins with “ca” and ends in “a” has a strong belief that the biggest cause of death is modern medical treatment; and that he is now totally reliant on alternative medicine, in the belief that that will give him better health protection!!!

    1. Castlepaloma profile image75
      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Out with it Man! You can say my name.lol. CastlePaloma. Castle of protection and paloma for peace.

      The main reason they are called alternative medicine is because big pharmaceutical wanted the total monopoly on medicine. One example is marijuana was the best known medicines known to human kind. Then it was make illegal in Canada for 90 years. Shortly after largest American corporation got together and created marijuana illegal in every Country in the world. Putting more marijuana users in prison greater than all the violence criminals combined like rapist, murderer, armed robbery, child molesters and so etc .

      Point being, we are our own best doctors in the world. The medical profession knows its not profitable if your fully healthy and not totally dependent on them as the pound of cure. When most of our medicine in our own greenhouse or backyard as the ounce of medicine. When the American Government owns the patent on marijuana, they will not do honest research as it's schedule one meaning no useful purpose and is harmful. Just only one example one plant medicine. Towards the absurd absolute power and corruption over the plants that make up  80% of the total
      biomass weight on earth. As I grow plants, fungi and worms being the largest biomass animal on earth. Making up 94% biomass weight living medicine and food on thd planet. I can not put them into mainstream markets because governments, pharmaceutical and farmers like GMO Gates monopolize control most everything.

      1. MizBejabbers profile image86
        MizBejabbersposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I'm afraid that I can't fully agree with either you or Nathanville. But one day this logic did hit me in the face:  I have complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), a most painful condition usually resulting from an injury or surgery. In my case it came from a spinal injury I sustained in a bus wreck. My doctor prescribed Lyrica for my pain, which was like a miracle drug. Then after 3 years, the side effects got to be too much for me to handle, and I was able to get off it without going through a step withdrawal under a doctor's care. Marijuana wasn't medicinally available at the time, still totally illegal. But why? Lyrica was a synthetic drug similar to a poppy derivative, and it was a Schedule I drug, I was shocked to discover. Even if marijuana had not been illegal -- and too expensive on the street to buy -- I was allergic to it. Fortunately, lidocaine patches became available over the counter. Before they became OTC, I was able to afford to have a one-month supply prescription filled. These I used very sparingly and kept in reserve for when I had to travel for business.
        OK, fast forward to this day and time. Medical marijuana is legal in my state. I would love to use it, BUT, it is still expensive and most prescription plans won't pay for it although they will pay for Schedule I prescription drugs, and I am still allergic to it. I'm retired but I'm not a welfare queen, so the government won't pay for high-priced prescriptions for me. So that's why I can't side with either one of you.
        BTW CastlePaloma, it was a greedy self serving political appointee named Harry Ainsworth who saw an advantage into making marijuana use and hemp growing illegal in this country. Do you realize that if hemp had been illegal in Europe in the 15th Century, Columbus never would have "discovered" American? In addition, a lot of people wouldn't have had cheap clothes to wear, and many would have starved to death. We have been at the mercy of greedy politicians since the dawn of time, it seems.

        1. Nathanville profile image92
          Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Thanks for your contribution MizBejabbers; I am confused about where you see that we don’t agree, so I would be grateful if you can enlighten me.

          From what you say, if I’ve understood correctly, you’re doctor prescribed Lyrica (Pregabalin) which as you say is classified as a controlled substance (Class C drug in the UK), and which is approved in the USA & Europe as a prescribed drug for use on prescription. 

          I fully support mainstream modern western healthcare; my point was that I’m also in favour of complementary medicine, that’s taken alongside whatever treatment your doctor prescribes; provided you consult with your doctor to get reassurance that the complementary medicine isn’t going to interact negatively with any treatment your doctor is giving you.

          Whereas, unlike Castlepaloma, I do not advocate in just using Alternative medicine e.g. taking herbal treatment as an alternative to seeking medical advice and treatment from a conventional modern healthcare doctor.

          As regards marijuana, yes it is also illegal in the UK; but since November 2018 the UK Government has legalised it for medical purposes; but as a controlled substance can only be given on prescription by an NHS doctor; albeit, being a prescription on the NHS means that most patients who need it will get it for free.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            You don't sound too HIP.... Man......

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
            Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Arthur, in Nigeria, my country, marijauna can cause one inprisonment, especially the process/refine ones.                                                Nigeria doctors hardly believe in alternative or complementary medicine. Therefore, the  majority goes for fringe medicine locally call native doctor or herbalist.                                           Besides orthodox or western medicine is very expensive. The government did not finance nor subsidy it. Whereas herbal is pocket friendly and affordable.                                Nutrition medicine should be at the finger tip of every person. It's not exclusive for the few trained. Medical doctors are even worried that the food you eat is not rocking well in your system, hence hindering the absorbption of the prescribe 'chemicals.'

            1. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Yep, marijuana is also illegal in the UK; classified as a Class ‘C’ drug, which carries a maximum penalty of two years prison for being in possession of it.

              However, since November 2018 the UK Government has legalised marijuana for medical use, provided it’s prescribed and issued by the NHS.

              I note that that orthodox western medicine is very expensive in Nigeria.  How much, typically does it cost e.g. is it as expensive as medicine in the USA.

              In the UK, on the NHS, the only people who have to pay for their medication are people who are in full time employment, earning more than just the minimum legal wage, and who doesn’t have a lifelong illness: and even then the prescription (which at our doctors is usually for two months’ supply) is only £9.35 ($12).  For everyone else e.g. those with long term illness like dilates, or if you’re retired like me, then ‘ALL’ NHS prescriptions are 100% free.

              As you may already know, in the UK NHS doctors are quite happy for you to take complementary medicine, provided you seek their advice.  Besides, in the UK NHS medical prescription are free for most people, so cost isn’t a factor.  What concerns your doctor is your health, and if you’re in good health by taking a few herbs that’s fine by them, provided that when you do fall ill that you have the good sense to seek proper medical help from your NHS doctor, and not try to cure yourself on just ‘alternative’ medicine.

              In the UK the NHS is also very hot on the importance of nutrition as part of a more holistic approach to medicine e.g. the NHS have been running a series of healthy eating campaigns in recent years.  And also, following my discharge from hospital recently, I was subsequently contacted by the hospitals nutritionals as part of a routine follow-up consultation; and we had an interesting chat, but it turned out that I am eating healthy, and I don’t need to be on any special diet, so I got the ‘all clear’ from her.

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
                Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                When I was a boy all medical treatment, drugs, including hospitalization was free.                                     That was before the end of the 1970's.                                            Then toward the end of that century, the government of the day set a bad precedent in charging every patient some fee for consultation, drugs, and all that. Till date whether low or high income, without income, pensioner, etc all pay for treatment.                                                      I'm a retired Administrative Officer in the civil service  and knows what I'm saying.                                           Your government lovely cares for you.

            2. Castlepaloma profile image75
              Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              When I was younger. Keep hearing these commercials on TV. Send us your money of $1 aday for starving African children. Your $1 ADAY Feeds, clothes, medical and education a child each day.

              I've spent $100, 000s on my child. Felt like sending my child over to Africa for a $1 aday.

          3. MizBejabbers profile image86
            MizBejabbersposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            "However, in this day and age, in the modern western world where we have a good health system, alternative medicine is foolhardy (foolish)."

            Nathanville, this is the part of your statement with which I can't fully agree. Many of our pharmaceuticals are based on synthesized versions of the real thing, which sometimes could be classified as an herb. I think the example I gave of being prescribed a Schedule I drug (in the U.S.) while a natural plant substance, marijuana, could be used successfully by most people. I probably confused you when I said I was allergic to marijuana. I'm not able to take natural herbs either picked from the garden or bought in capsule form from the drugstore or health food store, but many people can and do use them.
            I see where big pharma in the U.S. makes a profit out of synthesizing natural drugs.
            I also see your point and agree that other countries do not have the problem with big pharma that we have in the U.S.
            One of the reasons is because in the U.S. people pay for the R & D (research and development) of big pharma. By the time the medicine reaches other countries, that cost has been paid by us suckers here. Also, many of these countries have socialized medicine and the government picks up most of the tab. So a med that cost me a copay of $230 (Lyrica) for a month supply, at the time was costing Americans who were getting it from Australia $69. I don't know what the Aussies were paying for it then. My doctor was in the process of getting a license in Australia so his patients could order it from there when I was able to wean myself from it.
            By the way, I see that now there is a generic pregabalin on the market for around $24 for a month's prescription. Back when I was taking Lyrica, the insurance companies tried to push off gabapentin on us. They kept trying to tell us that it was generic Lyrica. I don't think pregabalin is spelled g a b a p e n t i n. I don't know anyone who got successful results with it. I certainly did not either.

            1. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Thanks for the clarity MizBejabbers, I understand, and can see where the confusion may be e.g. in this forum I’ve tried to distinguish between ‘Alternative’ & ‘Complementary’ in the sense that in the former (alternative) one would take ‘non-orthodox’ treatment without consulting your doctor, while in the latter (complementary) one would take non-orthodox’ treatment in conjunction with consulting your doctor.

              I guess an example might be:-

              #1:    If you decide to take fresh herbs from the garden to try to treat what could be a serious ailment, instead of seeing your doctor e.g. alternative medicine; then that might be foolhardy, and potentially life threatening.

              #2:    If, on the other hand, you took fresh herbs from your garden to help treat a similar ailment, after you consulted your doctor for advise e.g. complementary medicine, then there is less risk.

              How much you have to pay for prescriptions in the USA (and Australia) e.g. $230 for a month’s supply of Lyrica in the USA, and $69 in Australia is interesting.  In the UK, if you are in fulltime employment, earning more than the legal minimum wage and don’t suffer from any long term illness e.g. diabetes, then you do have to pay for your subscriptions, but it’s a fixed fee of £9.35 ($12) per prescription, which is often two months’ supply ($6 per month).  However, for everyone else (including me and my wife, because we’re retired) all prescriptions in the UK are ‘Free’.

              I do grow and use herbs from the garden; partly for flavouring in cooking, and occasionally for simple herbal remedies e.g. feverfew; but we do also consult with our doctor when we have any ailments of concern.

              1. MizBejabbers profile image86
                MizBejabbersposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I think the confusion was also a matter of semantics. In the U.S. I've never heard the term "complementary medicine" used. It's either conventional medicine or alternative. Some (a few) doctors do recognize and approve of using alternative methods along with the conventional, but they don't call it "complementary" that I know of. Thanks for clarifying.

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Thanks for the feedback, I've learnt something new.

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
          Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          If you know it, ya would have had cook medical marijuana as a green leafy vegetable and eat it. It's much safer with no side effect as a green.

          1. MizBejabbers profile image86
            MizBejabbersposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            I guess I could fry it. I'l allergic to chlorophyl in green leafy vegetables unless they are frozen or fried. Maybe put it in brownies. I hear they work. Thanks for the suggestion.

      2. Nathanville profile image92
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Castlepaloma, as usual, you are basing your views as if the whole world is made in the image of the USA; whereas it’s not.

        Outside of the USA the big Pharmaceutical Companies don’t monopolise the medicine.

        Marijuana being illegal in most countries has nothing to do with the largest American Corporations getting together to make it so.  Each country that has done so, has made Marijuana illegal unilaterally; and there are a few countries where Marijuana is legal e.g. Holland.

        Marijuana was made illegal in the UK in 1928.  Since November 2018 it’s been approved in the UK as a prescribed drug that can be given on prescription by your NHS Doctor.

        Returning back to my 2nd point “Outside of the USA the big Pharmaceutical Companies don’t monopolise the medicine”; the situation in the UK is as follows:-

        #1    In the NHS (National Health Service) most hospitals have an affiliation with universities in their area; a close working partnership for the mutual benefit of both e.g. for training and R&D etc.

        Part of the close relationship between the NHS and Universities gives the NHS the ability to R&D (Research & Develop) new treatments and medical drugs; consequently the NHS has a good track record of developing its own world class drugs that can be manufactured by British Pharmaceutical Companies at a reasonable cost, rather than the extortionate costs the USA Pharmaceutical Companies demand.

        #2    The NHS, which provides ‘FREE’ Universal Healthcare to ‘ALL’ (Government owned and run, and paid for by the taxpayer), does not have the ‘Authority’ to negotiate and buy medical drugs directly; the NHS has to get approval from NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence). 

        NICE is an independent Government body responsibly for negotiation and approving drugs for use by the NHS; and NICE is a tough negotiator e.g. they’ll not pay the extortionate prices demanded by USA Pharmaceutical Companies, when cheaper (if not quite so effective) alternatives around the world are available (as is often the case); therefore, invariably, as the NHS is a big customer (66 million clients), the USA Pharmaceutical Companies do often relent and provide the drugs to the UK NHS at a discounted price.

        Who are NICE Scientific Advice?  https://youtu.be/Uy3mzB5ItlM

        NICE Assessing the value of new medicines for the NHS: https://youtu.be/PIULWBVMpss

        1. Castlepaloma profile image75
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Nathanville

          Its like you, live in such a boxed up world.

        2. Castlepaloma profile image75
          Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Patent no. 6,630,507 was granted as a result of research showing the possibility that parts of the cannabis plant, those that are non-psychoactive, are effective in the treatment of neurological diseases. Because relief from these diseases via the cannabis plant is possible without getting high from THC, the patent was granted.

          The patent does not say there is proof that treatment using cannabinoids is effective. That would require laboratory purification and synthesis of the compound, not to mention loads of animal and human testing, plus being approved by the FDA once all that is done, like what has happened with Epidiolex.

          In other words, the patent was granted because–at the time it was applied-for–there was a possibility that it could be effective, and worthy of further research. In the meantime, the government has kept its potential largely hidden from the public and classified as a Schedule 1 drug. Schedule 1 means no health or medical benefits from marijuana. I am not going down the history of marijuana 101. How US changed the agenda on marijuana around the world. Because that steal helmet is on too tight.

          1. Nathanville profile image92
            Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, I understand that the USA has its own laws governing cannabis, and that in the USA cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug. 

            But your last sentence in your above comment suggests that you think that what applies in the USA applies across the world; but it doesn’t:-

            FYI in the UK cannabis is only a ‘Class C’ drug e.g. not very serious; maximum penalty just 2 years prison.  And,

            Also, FYI, in the UK, since November 2018 cannabis has been approved by the British Government for use by the NHS, as a prescribed drug, that can be given on prescription to patients (by NHS doctors) who will benefit from its medicinal use; and being on prescription by the NHS means that most people in the UK who are prescribed it by the NHS get it for free.

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
            Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            'that steel helment on is too tight.'                                        Arthur, I can't help laughing!                                    Seems because you wrote that man whose user name begin with ca and in a.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image75
              Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              I will do me and you do you. Noone owns me and allowed to take away my livelihood or force thing into my body.
              I do
              Being world class athlete and artist for decades and loving it for most waking hours of my life. Is proof that my science and bliss lifestyle works best for me. I only explore the darkside or rabbit hole once in a wail, reaching for the stars and bring it back to our optimist club. With a chance it will be recreated globally.

              You can do you.
              You can be the king of mediocrity or comfortable numb. With all the limitations and boundaries of world covid order normal offers.

              See you in the future when the pendulum swings extremely the other way. Being an individual entrepreneur always keeps me lively and part of grass roots change by projector and generator and ultimately manifesto of beauty

        3. Castlepaloma profile image75
          Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Outside of usa pharmaceutical

          Countries
          Germany: US$56.9 billion (14.5% of exported drugs and medicines)
          Switzerland: $47.8 billion (12.2%)
          Netherlands: $31.1 billion (7.9%)
          Belgium: $29 billion (7.4%)
          France: $26.6 billion (6.8%)
          Italy: $24.8 billion (6.3%)
          United States: $24.3 billion (6.2%)
          United Kingdom: $18.3 billion (4.7%)

          1. Nathanville profile image92
            Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            And your point is?

            1. Castlepaloma profile image75
              Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              The 7 of the top 8 pharmaceutical companies in the world are in Europe. Pfizer had the largest share of the pharmaceutical market

              In the UK with 8.2 percent of the market, followed by Novartis with six percent.

              1. Nathanville profile image92
                Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                SO what, what is your point?

                The UK also has the third-highest share of global pharmaceutical Research and development (R&D) expenditure of any nation in the world, at 9% of global expenditure.

      3. Miebakagh57 profile image71
        Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        A, can you hear him? Not on my life at the moment..

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
      Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Arthur, I discern the guy and he respond right away!                                                  Why d'you do do that to invite him to take the law up with ya? Or were you copying Caslepaloma to become an art 'artist'?                                                   While I'm enjoying the fun you create within a serous health issue, don't you realise ca...a has tag the thread as an affront to his 99.9999999999 unknow in the universe?                                           Alternate #3: laughter, is the best medicine.

      1. Nathanville profile image92
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Yep, I know, I’m a glutton for punishment.

      2. Castlepaloma profile image75
        Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Where is a human brain or being organisms ,? To say the human  brain is powerful enough to know the correct measurement scale size of the Universe. Plus all its creatures and everything in it

        Please find me a human being capable of figuring out if this number 99.9999999999 would be correct for everything in the Universe that's unknown? .

        Except one book the, Bible,
        Bible knows the whole source of the universal truth and knowledge. How stupid of me, I forget to look at all answers from one book.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
          Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Okay, try looking up answers in the Bible, if that would help, and if that is what you mean.

    3. Miebakagh57 profile image71
      Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Arthur, I believe both orthodox and alternative medicine has its place in the health scheme of a person.                                               Sickness, diseases, and ill-health don't just happen. There's a cause for these negative effects.                                               I also believe there's an alternative to the above two less known as nutrition or orthomolecular medicine.                                                  It's this laler which is mankind should primarily concern with but failed awfully that gave rise to both the medical and alternative practice.                                         People eat but were they eating natural organic foods(fruits and vegges come first) 85% naturally? Fast foods and junks eaten 100% over and send a person to hospital- orthodox or fringe docter.                             Believe me. I've seen alt or compl medicine practitiner as foolhardy as the other. They move from a to c  back and forth. I hardly go to the hospital even once a year.

      1. Nathanville profile image92
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        If I understand you correctly, then well put e.g. herbal drinks taken for health purposes is an alternative medicine where you wouldn’t normally need to consult your doctor; albeit herbs can have adverse (and sometimes dangerous) side effects which you should make a point of being aware of if you intend using herbs.  However, when it comes to issues of sickness, disease and ill-health then you should seek your primary care from orthodox medicine; but, subject to consulting your doctor, there’s no harm in also taking complementary medicine such as Feverfew, or a honey & lemon hot drink to ease a sore throat.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
          Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I agree with you...herbs can give a side effect. But I don't take herbs as herbal drinks. I mostly rock them in my chop plate. Herbal teas for example with basil or tulsi I made in the kitchen with fresh greens.                                                Believe me you, the last time I went to the hospital 2017, I went for a check up. A motor cycle accident I had 10 years before re-cause some pains. Except a swollen thigh(right leg), I don't sustain a bruise or bone injury during the accident...a miracle? But the pain is unbearing.                                              I was given some drugs. Two months later the pains still persists. I apply cold compress and  then took to stretching and jogging. Thank goodness its gone. But I still stretch,exercise and jog weekty.                                              alternative #4: Bodily Exercse.

          1. Nathanville profile image92
            Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            This is the first time in the whole of my life that I’ve needed to go to the hospital; and following three weeks in hospital I am currently given regular check-ups every month while I recover.

            It’s my wife who is potentially dependent on pain-killers, because of her back condition.  However, rather than just prescribe her pain-killers the NHS hospital has also taught her how to do specific physical exercises to help ease the pain, and have given her a series of those exercises to do at home as part of her follow-up treatment.

            And thankfully, the physical exercises prescribed to my wife by the NHS do help reduce her need to take painkillers quite significantly.  But also, with her doctors knowledge, she does use other aids as appropriate to help relieve pain, including heat pads and a tens machine etc.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Sounds great. Orthodox doctors are now realizing that one method of treatment in most cases not enough for a person to recover. Thanks.

  2. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 13 months ago

    Nathan,

    Years ago I did a rather long article about the use of alternative medicines and treatment.

    In some of the largest hospitals in the United States, there are programs that offer everything from Acupuncture to herbal medicines and other things.  All of them have varying degrees of success in different situations.  Success doesn't matter, pharmaceutical companies are too powerful to change things.

    Ever hear of the Buteyko breathing method?  It is a way for people to control an asthma attack without the use of drugs.  It is very successful.  This is common in Australia, Russia and other Eastern European countries.  When I did the story, organizations dedicated to helping people with asthma refused to be part of the story.  They were afraid the pharmaceutical companies would withdraw their donations and support.  It was like that with physicians and even hospitals.  I did get a few physicians to discuss it with me.

    So, here we have a successful method of treating asthma, but because it is a drug-free method, it is ignored and not discussed.

    I think there are many alternative medicines and treatments that are kept back because there is no money to be made in promoting them.

    This is the way of the world.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image75
      Castlepalomaposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Sadly

    2. Nathanville profile image92
      Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Yep, that is “the way of the world in the USA”.

      Fortunately things are different in the rest of the world; especially in countries like the UK where the Health Service is owned and run by the Government, at the taxpayers’ expense (the NHS), and where the NHS (National Health Service) puts people before costs.  I would say ‘profit’, but the NHS is free to all at the point of use, so the word profit doesn’t come into the equation.

      Our neighbours (two doors away from us) are a Chinese couple who are medically qualified in China and the UK; they both work at UWE (University of the West of England) doing R&D (Research & Development) into adapting traditional Chinese medicine and medical practices into Western Orthodox methods e.g. the NHS. 

      In the UK virtually every NHS hospital is in Association with their local universities; which has the mutual benefit in training/education, and R&D e.g. the NHS has a good track record (with the help of the universities) of developing medical drugs and treatment.

      Also, the NHS is shielded from pressure from the pharmaceutical companies because the NHS does not have the authority to buy drugs without the expressed consent from NICE. NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) is an ‘independent’ Government Department responsible for negotiating deals with the pharmaceutical companies, and approving which drugs the NHS are permitted to buy and use.  NICE is a tough negotiator, and doesn’t usually buy drugs from the USA pharmaceutical companies at the hyped up prices that the USA hospitals pay e.g. there are usually cheaper alternative treatments available; therefore as the NHS is a big customer (66 million clients) the USA pharmaceutical companies often offer their drugs at a reduced price, rather than loose the sale altogether.

      Because the NHS is not profit orientated it is able to put the interests of the patient first; and, particularly in recent years and decades has been more broadminded in the range of treatment it offers e.g. the NHS is increasingly embracing the concept of holistic medicine….

      And these days the NHS does support and offer a number of non-orthodox medical practices as part of its service including acupuncture; and the NHS also provides training and education for ‘relaxation classes’ as an alternative to medication etc.

      The NHS philosophy is that “Prevention is Better than Cure”; therefore the NHS spends a lot of its resources on educating the public e.g. better eating, more exercise etc., and on regular health checks to identify potential health issues before they occur and take action to prevent the health issue developing; for example the NHS will regular check your blood sugar level, and if you show any signs of becoming diabetic will advise you, and educate you on how to avoid becoming diabetic. 

      In the event that medical drugs are needed, in the NHS increasingly doctors only prescribe drugs as a last resort; and when they do, for most people in the UK medical prescriptions are ‘free’ anyway.

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        So, did you ever hear of the Buteyko breathing method?  Is it something your NIH embraces?  Just wondering.

        1. Nathanville profile image92
          Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Interesting question:  I hadn’t heard of the Buteyko breathing method because I don’t have asthma and I don’t know anyone who does.

          However, I did check with the NHS website, and they do mention it as complementary therapy that can be offered under the NHS.  To ‘Quote’ from the NHS website in relation to asthma treatment:-

          Complementary Therapies
          •    breathing exercises – such as techniques called the Papworth method and the Buteyko method
          •    traditional Chinese herbal medicine
          •    acupuncture
          •    ionisers – devices that use an electric current to charge molecules of air
          •    manual therapies – such as chiropractic
          •    homeopathy
          •    dietary supplements

          Although the NHS website does point out that “There's little evidence to suggest many of these treatments help”, but adds “There's some evidence that breathing exercises can improve symptoms and reduce the need for reliever medicines in some people”; although they do also make it clear that any such therapy should be taken as complementary treatment and not as an alternative to any main treatment the NHS offers.

          Does that help to answer your question.

        2. Nathanville profile image92
          Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Here’s an old NHS (National Health Service) video promoting breathing exercises to help people clear fluid and phlegm from their chests.  https://youtu.be/kC-H8fFzZes?t=468

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            People don't have time, the vast majority are going to drag their dirty mask around and spread what ever they got, everywhere.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              I can agree with you that some people don't have the time for a simple breathing exercise.                                                 The mask can be wash clean and re-use, or it can be discard completely. In some places, the law is there to catch up with you.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Lol
                I'm such an Outlaw.

            2. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              People don’t have time for what Castlepaloma, and what does it have to do with masks?

              If you read the interaction between me and Readmikenow above, you will see that we were talking about breathing exercises (specifically the Buteyko method) for people who suffer from asthma, as an alternative or complementary medical treatment to orthodox medicines e.g. drugs; and whether the NHS supported such a measure.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I am starting to look at covid in a good way. It shows how clearly how our medical and political systems are broken, high time now the people can fix them.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Israel Is the World’s Most Vaccinated Country. Why Are Cases Rising?

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  You are mistaken, the number of new cases in Israel is the lowest its been since the start of the pandemic, and still falling; and FYI the average daily deaths from Covid is just down to only 3 deaths a day (the lowest since the start of the pandemic:-  As shown in the data below:-

                  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir … ry/israel/

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                    Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/02 … untry.html

                    Also that tape of a woman opposition political party i sent you and her veiw that were so real. Unlike Israel studies and research are fake.

                    No wonder Israel and US are amoug the most disliked countries in the world.

                  2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
                    Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    A person with a scientific mindset should follow up with the basic scientific method. That's the only way to show the world you're trained scientifically.                                   On the other, if one discover something new and his helpful to mankind it should be investiate by a known process that is universal. Otherwise keep it to yourself and enjoy the harm it can do. For they're two side to a coin or toss card.

          2. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            So, my next question, if you go to see a physician in the UK with asthma, what is the first course of treatment?  Do they attempt to cure it initially with a solution involving drugs, or do they recommend the drug-free Buteyko breathing method?  I am going to say they will initially try a drug-based solution. This is because of the worldwide power of the pharmaceutical companies. It's the way it is done all over the world, except for places like Russia and other Eastern European countries and some parts of Australia.  The Buteyko breathing is usually not tried or recommended until the drug-based treatments aren't successful or not successful enough.

            1. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              In the UK, in the first instance you will be offered an inhaler; but this isn’t for the reason you give, because of the following:-

              •    The NHS (National Health Service) in the UK is Government owned and run, and paid for from the taxpayer’s money; hence it’s run on a tight budget.

              •    The NHS is ‘FREE’ Universal healthcare, given to ‘All’ at the point of use for ‘free’; so it’s in the UK’s Government’s interest not to spend money on drugs unnecessarily.

              •    Consequently, the emphases is on saving money in the NHS through efficiency and cost effectiveness, thus (based on 2017 data) the cost of the NHS in the UK is £2,989 ($4,162) per person, compared to the average of £3,663 ($5,101) per person in the EU, and £7,736 ($10,773) per person in the USA.

              •    Unlike the USA, in the UK Pharmaceutical Companies are prohibited in dealing directly with the NHS.  Pharmaceutical Companies have to negotiate with NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) who approve and buy medical drugs on behalf of the NHS.  NICE is an independent Government Department, and thus their interest is value for money for the taxpayer, and a balance between value for money and quality of service for the NHS.

              What is NICE guidance?  https://youtu.be/npFz9qRrpeg

              The reason the NHS will offer an inhaler in the first instance is because the NHS is driven by ‘evidence based’ (scientific evidence), and thus while drug based solutions are well tried and tested and proven to be effective in most cases; alternative treatments are less proven.  Yes, from what I’ve seen on the web the Buteyko breathing method does seem to be effective; and even the NHS (on their website) acknowledge that “There's some evidence that breathing exercises can improve symptoms and reduce the need for reliever medicines in some people”.   But until the evidence (in their eyes) becomes more compelling; then the NHS will only offer the Buteyko breathing method as an alternative after first trying the drug route; unless during the consultation period the patient insists on the Buteyko breathing method in the first instance, in which case their doctor will try to accommodate the patient’s wishes where possible.

              One Area where the NHS has switched from pushing drugs to trying alternative treatment first is with ‘Depression’.

              Up until 30 years ago if you went to your doctor complaining of Depression you would automatically be given ‘anti-depressant’ tablets.  These days however, your doctor will refuse to issue you with ‘anti-depressant’ tablets until all other avenues have been tried:-

              These days, if you visit your NHS doctor in the UK, complaining of depression:-

              •    In the first instance your NHS doctor will usually suggest waiting to see whether it improves on its own, while monitoring your progress. This is known as "watchful waiting". They may also suggest lifestyle measures such as exercise and self-help groups.

              •    Failing that, then the next step they offer is therapy.

              •    Then, as a last resort, if all else has failed, then you will be prescribed anti-depressants tablets.

              Although the NHS may be slow on adopting alternative methods of treatment, because of the time it takes to trial new methods, it is at least far more broadminded than it was 30 years ago e.g. you can now get things like acupuncture and hypnosis on the NHS as free treatment.  A good example being the NHS’s current trial period, where the NHS are running a pilot programme on 5,000 volunteers with type 2 diabetes, to see if diabetes is curable.

              It all started a few years ago when an NHS Doctor did a series of Health Documentaries on BBC, and in one of the episodes he put 10 volunteers who had type 2 diabetes on a special diet for six weeks to see what effect it had on their blood sugar level; and to his surprise, after his short experiment for his TV Series, 3 of the 10 volunteers no longer had diabetes. 

              Since then two large scale studies have been carried out in the UK, and in one in particular over half of those who took part in the study were no longer diabetic after 1 year.  Therefore the NHS has now extended the studies in the form of extensive trials across the UK; and if that is successful then this will become the NHS’s initial course of treatment, rather than going down the drug route.

              https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/tre … rie-diets/

              1. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Thanks for all of the information.

                Then, the treatment asthma is pretty much like it is in the United States.  American citizens have access to all type of alternate treatments.  Some choose to use them and others do not. I have no prove, other than experience in business, but I would bet the members of UKs  NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) are treated very well by the pharmaceutical companies. It is the way of the world.

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Nope, before I retired I worked for the Government all my working life, a civil servant, so I know first-hand how Government Departments operate in the UK. 

                  One thing that the UK Government is very hot on is ensuring that their Departments are not compromised by favouritism e.g. a Company Boss offering to take a Government Official out to lunch (business lunch) or offering the Department free samples etc., are all (under British Law) classified as ‘Bribery and Corruption’ (a criminal offence).

                  So unlike Government Ministers (elected politicians) who do wine and dine diplomats and heads of states etc., Heads of Government Departments do have to play it by the book, and keep their affairs strictly business; and all contracts are tendered for in accordance with strict guidelines laid down by the Government.

                  Since 2008 NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence), a UK Government Department,  has gone International e.g. now also using its expertise to help other nations (third world) to improve their Healthcare System (see video below):-

                  We are NICE International:  https://youtu.be/TnxvduJ7xog

                  Plus also, as previous explained in this forum, NHS Hospitals have a close working relationship with local universities, with the mutual benefit for both Education/Training and for the Research and Development of medial drugs and treatments in-house (something which the NHS has a good record for); and which is a lot cheaper than buying drugs developed by pharmaceutical  companies.

                  For example the BRI (Bristol Royal Infirmary) NHS Hospital, where my wife worked in Admin, before she retired, is partnered with Bristol University; and while my wife worked there it’s where the BRI in conjunction with Bristol University developed the “Bristol Stool Chart”, which is now use International around the world (see image below):-

                  https://hubstatic.com/15524098_f1024.jpg

                  1. Readmikenow profile image95
                    Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    "before I retired I worked for the Government all my working life, a civil servant,"

                    This explains all of your answers.  It also explains your knowledge of how the UK government operates.

                    I wonder if someone from the UK without such a background would see things a bit different?

                    I've been to England, Wales and Scotland.  I made friends with a guy from the UK army when I was deployed.  I went to his country for a visit and he came to mine.

                    It was one of the most fun experiences I've ever had.  I understood the people from the England most of the time, Scotland some of the time and it was a struggle to understand the people from Wales.  I came to realize the United States and the UK try to achieve the same goals, we just go about it in different ways. Visiting the UK was a real good experience.

                2. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  The NHS, with over 1.3 million staff is the 5th largest employer in the world; serving a population of 66.7 million people e.g. about 1 in 50 people (2%) of the British population work for the NHS; so when you also take into account all the supply chains e.g. catering, cleaning, building maintenance, landscaping, medical supplies etc., then the NHS has a major positive impact on the British Economy.

                  How does the NHS in England work? (Shows some of the complexity of such a Government Organisation):  https://youtu.be/DEARD4I3xtE

            2. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Another point to consider, which I forgot to mention above, is that in the UK Doctors are Government Employees and paid a fixed salary; so they have no interests or incentive to prescribe drugs for the sake of prescribing drugs; and besides they don't have the buying power e.g. it's the pharmaceutical department within the NHS who liaison with NICE for the purchase of drugs, not the doctor.

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
                Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                D'you mean to say that all medical doctors come under the service of the government and non operate privately?

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Basically yes; and not just the doctors, but the ambulance service, hospitals and pharmacists etc., are all part of the NHS and all come under the service of the government (as government employees), and therefore don’t operate  privately.

                  We are the NHS - A day in the life of a GP:  https://youtu.be/lNXGfiO9dTM

                  It all stems back to 1948 when the Labour (Socialist) Government had to battle to persuade the doctors to give up their private practices and become part of the NHS:  The Birth of the NHS.

                  The NHS: A Difficult Beginning  https://youtu.be/-ywP8wjfOx4

                  It’s only the consultants who can choose to work privately if they so wish; but then when the NHS is a free service there isn’t much demand for private medicine; even the Royal Family uses the NHS; so most consultants will work for the NHS most of the time.

                  The only real exception being the Private Doctors in Harley Street in London who specialises in areas not covered by the NHS e.g. ‘vanity surgery’ (cosmetic surgery).

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
                    Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Thanks a lot for the information.                                                    Nigeria was a former British subject. I was born in 1956. And I start school at 6.                          After the Nigerian-Biafra civil war, I was admitted into secondary grammar school.                               In those days, we boys and girls do get sick and took sick papers to see a doctor at any one of the nearby public(government) hospitals. Man, seeing is believing. I was even provide with a BIG lucozade free beside drugs.                                                Even when Nigeria won independence(1960)  from the  British Government, medical treatment continue to be free. In !978 I left school but visit my hospital for a problem and I was supply with a can of glucose. All the would be as a result of the British public medical foundation.                                           But all are now past tense. Nowadays every person-rich or poor, employed or student pays for treatment in a government hospital.

                  2. Castlepaloma profile image75
                    Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    this year, Pfizer had the largest share of the pharmaceutical market in the UK with 8.2 percent of the market, followed by Novartis with six percent.

                2. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Further to my comments above; an idea of what it's like to be an NHS Doctor in a Rural Area in the UK:-

                  What's it like training and working as a rural GP in Scotland: https://youtu.be/i1hIdOOdMCc

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
                    Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Arthur, thanks for the additional details. I appreciated you much.

  3. Castlepaloma profile image75
    Castlepalomaposted 12 months ago

    Here is a breakdown of COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people in all 50 U.S. states and Washington, D.C. The data was last updated April 27.

    People have told me, that i havd never face anything more dangerous than covid. Oh but I have.

    Beside 2 deaths in nova Scotia this year, 5000 deaths will die of heart disease, which suppressed from a physical check every 3 mouth, to a phone call check up once a year.

    Been through worst like in 65 tropical countries, 2nd house in Belize, where masquito kill more than covid by far.

    Also born in 1954

    Update covid deaths US
    Covid per 100,000 is 19 death

    Flu season
    2018 14.9
    2017 14.3
    2016 13.5
    2015 15.2
    2014 15.1
    2013 15.9
    2012 14.4
    2011 15.7
    2010 15.1
    2009 16.5
    2008 17.6
    2007 16.8
    2006 18.4
    2005 21
    2004 20.4
    2003 22.6
    2002 23.2
    2001 22.2
    2000 23.7
    1999 23.5
    1998 34.6
    1997 33.3
    1996 32.9
    1995 33.4
    1990 36.8
    1980 31.4
    1970 41.7
    1960 53.7

    Covid didn't exist before 2019. Give freedom or give me death by flu, for its a lot worst than covid.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image75
      Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Made a mistake those were for Canada stats. When I said I have face worst danger in disease and viruses than covid in my lifetime. The subconscious went to where I spent most of my life,
      Canada .

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      'Covid didn't exists before 2019. Give freedom or death by flu...its a lot worst than covid.'                                 Castlepalo, I've got you! Herein is the link into your mindset. And you're not dim witted enough. It translate to sayinp you're a pinochio and easily given to any weird form real or imagine.                                       I research your posts/replies/discussions on covid in the forum. Have you forgot where you remark virus causing covid is billions of years older than mankind?                                          How come freedom or death worst than covid? Death if temporary like sleep release you from all tension. Actually, covid brings pain.                                If you're not careful in the manner you use your mind, you'll get a lot of mental challenges.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image75
        Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Sorry your right, I'm a strong visual artist person of action. Words is not my strong suit, Better expressing in comedy than an academically. I really mean is covid didn't exist as a serious problems before 2019 like the flu. Many mutations bacteria and microorganism and viruses go back a billion years in a pool of cosmic soup like how Darwin's expresses. Yet who really knows.

        My religion is nature not this technology religion most people are following like sheep.
        You heard the French say give me liberty or give me death.
        Imagination is more important than knowledge. Everything I ever achieved in my life was all once imagined. Technology wealthy can harms our imagination and creativity which will force us all into their slavery. They will not win in the long run, just like to limit the suffering.

        Jeff Bezos is a controlling trillionaire and many billionaires are all literally making a killing over this covid mutations manifested through fear. Love and kindness is the only thing that is penetrative through this thick skin.

        Even my daughter, thought I was nuts taking about these stuff 10 years ago. Not now, she is seeing mostly its unfolding like I said somewhat like it is. The terrorist have gotten a ways to go yet.

        1. Nathanville profile image92
          Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          There is nothing wrong with a good imagination, and in being artistic.  I have a good imagination, and a limited artistic flare.  But it is important to not be swallowed up by your imagination and to live in the real world; to put some trust into the sciences & technology.  It may surprise you to earn that in the real world governed by science and technology that you can still have your own personal individual freedom, individuality, and imagination, and be as artistic as you like.

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
            Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Arthur, I agree entirely with you. I also has a keen imagination but I can't live entire on imagination or the subconcious mind. How can a person?                                              The realm of the imagination like the sub-consious mind is beging the scientific method for a proof or its realtity. Even a personalty no less than God though exists, can't be imagine. So the  Courts stop a person calling God as a witness, correct?                                      But Castlepalo who says his religion is nature...how can imagination be submissive(a slave) to nature? Can anyone imagine that? When the goal of the sub concious is to conquer and dorminate nature! That's what science does for example in puting man on the moon!

            1. Castlepaloma profile image75
              Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              https://hubpages.com/business/Cosmic-Sand-Gypsy

              Here is the first man who orbit the earth and directed the first man on the moon..
              John Glenn said our sandsculpture of his space ship was so realistic it warmed his heart. He explain to me how the heat shield saved his life on reentry.  We talk about how magic of imagination co-exist with science.

              You two are probably  better at academics than me. When it come to realistic stuff.
              Then you two don't compare, to building 25 world records scale sculptures. Plus built the largest sculpture of any kind of material in the world of a 6 acres parks. Plus several top historic museums displays worldwide. Built 9 houses of different materials. Dominate my county for my type of variety of organic foods.

              I don't think you two guy come close to my category of manifesting products with as high of skills Or as high level in scientific accomplishments.

              1. Nathanville profile image92
                Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I may not be as artistic as you, but I don’t think you can claim that you have a higher level of scientific accomplishments than us; especially as you are so sceptical of science; and besides, if you’d read some of my DIY projects on HubPages you’ll see that I am too quite adapt at manifesting products e.g. my speciality in DIY being upcycling, recycling and repurposing. 

                Besides, what has your artistic skills have to do with your dismissal attitude towards covid, and your anti-vax stance etc?  Or with the topic in hand e.g. your distrust of orthodox healthcare.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                  Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  When the flu death for most years of my life. Of each of those years, flu deaths would be higher than covid death of one year. All we need to do was stay home, sleep, water, stay away from people. Not lockdown a country, a province, even a city. Lockdown jobs, lockdown of health care to most other health conditions. Plus , debt, love ones, family, shopping, cafe and it keeps going on and on until people die from every kind of thing imaginable . Total Maddness

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
          Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Castlepalo, if that's your stand go ahead. And your like-minds? None has identify with ya here! Sorry just your daughter? And what a pity!

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            A few years ago, had collective attendance of 18 million people where I was the major feature at each event.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              You're still imagining?And you imagine 18 million persons? Great! But don't you imagine 18 billion(not million)  persons really small? That that said here my imagination could go...18 trillion as much as the Andromedia Galaxy or the expanding universe. Don't be a Pinochio now.                                                  More so, your imagination seems to conflict with you will. Get help.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/4462028.jpg

                I get tired of people who think I lying about being sandsculptor

                This sculpture is life size carved by two people in 2 days. It's one display out of 20 different displays of the history of Oklahoma. The World largest in door sandsculpture in the world.

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  No one has said that you're not a sand sculpture artist.

    3. Nathanville profile image92
      Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Castlepaloma, I don't know where you got your data from, but its wrong; covid deaths in the USA is NOT 19 per 100,000 as you claim; its currently 176.9 per 100,000 and rising e.g. almost 10 times higher than you're claiming.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image75
        Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        I recorrected my ​post with...

        I Made a mistake those were for Canada stats. When I said I have face worst danger in disease and viruses than covid in my lifetime. The subconscious went to where I spent most of my life,
        Canada or in the tropical places.

        My subconscious & imagination and its data is far more powerful then you just using your consciousness enslaved by GIANT ELITIST data. Which is based absolute power structure. WEF is gaining power that you ignore. Absolute power always corrupts.

        I predicted 10 years ago by intuitive (extreme logic) that the powers to be would create something that would kill as much people as the second world war. Covid is just one small tool, they will stop at nothing totally own your academic soul.

        Since everything I had achieved in my entire life was all once imagined. Why would I give up a successful life with my favorite tool of imagination. It's most credited for manifested a loving what i do for most waking hours of my life. Why would I replace it for technology giant elitist trillionaire and billionaires who heavily surveillance our every move then report a common decent person who disagree or protest them. Then lock them up as a terrorist.

        They bought your academic soul, hook, line and sinker.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
          Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Castlepaloma again?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Again what? I don't live in a limited box like most.

            So what if I don't subscribe to the wizard of OZ, what then? Just love with no harm is all I want to share.

            1. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              The problem is you don't share 'no harm' as you claim; your views and actions are putting other peoples lives at risk.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                https://hubpages.com/politics/-Fun-Arti … prediction

                I made prediction about 10 years ago on hugepage of an other articles. That this world order will collapse in around this time today. Because I know my history from where we are coming from and where we are going. I built many historical museum displays around the world. Yes, history and fantasy are my favourite subjects. Yet there is a fine line between them.

                For example this pirates sunken Treasure museum in ST. Peterborough Florida US. Christopher Columbus was the first pirates in North America. First for Christianity, first European native slavery & genocides. First for the gold rush.

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  FYI the world order isn't collapsing; the money markets are still running, stocks and shares are still viable; banks are still in business; world trade is still in progress. 

                  There may be economic slumps in a lot of the countries around the world; but as each country gets on top of the covid pandemic (as the UK is doing) then trade and business will pick up again, and a level of normality return.

              2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
                Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Correct. Our rebuttal is a warning to other people to becarefull of false and misleading information.                                    The wolf may put on sheep's clothing.

            2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              You don't understand my...you're still behaving weird. I reason your imagination and will murt be conflicting.

            3. Miebakagh57 profile image71
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Who boxing you into a box? No one boxing you into a box. You're free your own way. Thanks.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                When one has imagination, fearlessness and sticktoitiveness. Life is limitless and boundless. Most are living in small box of limits.

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  That’s not true.  It might be your perception of people; but I know plenty of people who can be creative, and think out of the box, yet have their feet firmly planted in the real world.  If you read some of my HubPage Articles on DIY you’ll see that I frequently work outside of the box.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                    Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    It comes down to love and work. These 3 other things imagination, fearlessness and sticktoitiveness has been my experience of hitting the ceiling of my feild or any pursuits.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                https://www.google.com/search?q=History … MrA3E,st:0

                Before you down the once most agricultural plant in the world watch this. 1.1 million dollars an acre vs rice for $300 an acre

        2. Nathanville profile image92
          Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Nope, Castlepaloma, I am not enslaved by giant elitists, and the WEF don’t have don’t have any real power; all that is just lies spread by conspiracy theories which you’ve bought into hook, line and sinker.  I live a free and independent life just like most people in the western democracies.

          In paragraph three above you’re claiming that covid is a deadly disease, that is killing more people than the Second World War; yet you also consistently claim that you refuse to get vaccinated or wear a mask because in your view covid isn’t very deadly:  Which seems to be a contradiction.

          Besides, covid was NOT created by any evil entity (the powers to be, as you put it); covid was a natural occurrence of a virus jumping species from bats to humans:  A natural occurrence that happens periodically e.g. swine flu, aviation flu etc.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Most are economical enslaved by giant elitists. That is why most are dissatisfied with their work for most hours of their lives, The Greatest pet pev and waste of time in life, I can imagine.

            WEF will keep trying and been gaining with covid brilliantly mastering the masses to bringing them to their knees. Yet it won't work. My prediction from history patterns and writing on the wall shows the pendulum swings extremely the other way.

            Your an atheist nationalism kind, not the kind rarely for new ways of thinking. Rarely having human rights because mostly being stuck on privileges they give out. Its not a true, democracy because high technology and politics/media fakes control your thinking like most. I said the covid is a small tool. About 70 million won't dead of covid, its everything else that are lives are lockdown from that will be the mass killer. Technology and machinery is the new religion, UN, Gates and most elites described a great reducing in population. Greed is the worst virtue of all.

            I obey laws of masks (yet not in agreement) force passport injection, will reject with all my might. Mandated up your $$$. I showed a few things in my personal lifetime will kill me far greater than the covid. I just don't run around like chicken little or herd mentality screaming the sky is falling upon the world.

            Evil maybe the absence reason, don't claim to know. Don't think covid was invented. Yet the mutations can be altered or a natural occurrence of a virus do jump to different species.

            1. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Yep Castlepaloma, that’s where you are assuming that the whole world is just like the USA; a common mistake that you keep making.

              FYI, unlike the USA, in Europe (including the UK) most people are NOT “economically enslaved by giant elitists”; and as I’ve stated previously, most European workers do get job satisfaction, even in the UK 64% of workers are happy with their job.

              In the USA people are enslaved to their job because if they lose their job they lose their medical insurance that’s financed by their employer. 

              In contrast the UK Healthcare is FREE regardless to whether you work or not.

              In the USA people get poor working conditions with little security e.g. they are lucky if they get two weeks paid leave (vacation) per year, and no paid maternity leave for mothers; plus employees can be sacked at a moment’s notice in the USA for no real reason. 

              In contract in the UK everyone gets six weeks paid leave (vacation), and not only do mothers get paid maternity leave, but in the UK even fathers get a minimum of two weeks paid paternity leave.  Plus, in the UK, once you’ve been in employment for more than two years; it is extremely difficult for your employer to sack you. 

              Plus in the UK, if you are unemployed or on a low wage, then the benefits you get from the Welfare State is rather generous compared to the meagre benefits you get in the USA; so in the UK people are more willing to chuck their job in if they are not satisfied with it, and go on the doll (unemployment) until they get another job that they prefer.

              The WEF is no trying to bring the masses to their knees; I don’t know which world you live in; but in the UK the masses are not on their knees, and it’s the democratically elected government that runs the country anyway, not the WEF.

              When you say the UK is not a true democracy, and that our (the voters) thinking is controlled; you don’t know what you’re talking about e.g. you do not understand the British politics.  Granted, it’s not a perfect democracy, but it works and the views of all poetical parties are heard.  FYI, there are major elections due across England next week; which should prove interesting.

              As regards covid passports (for international travel); I don’t know about the USA, but across Europe it will not be necessary to get vaccinated to get a covid passport; having a recent negative covid test will be sufficient.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image75
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                You already know that I know that US is in worst shape than Canada and UK. It's now beyond just the US world influence worldwide. It's just your not aware how close the one world order is now playing for the end game.

                Perhaps European are not as difficult over covid passports as North America. Certainly covid is harming everything across the map here.

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  There is NO ‘One World Order’ and ‘No End Game’; all that is just conspiracy theories.  Politics and Economics are subjects I studied and passed my exams in at college; so I am perfectly aware on the political and economic status of the world.

                  Yep, of course covid is harming everything; it’s a deadly disease:  But once the vaccines have been rolled out sufficiently to achieve herd immunity then life can return back to normal; as it has done in Gibraltar e.g. no covid deaths in over two months, and in recent days, all covid restrictions (including masks) have now been abolished:-

                  Gibraltar's vaccine success shows a glimmer of the future (video from 5 weeks ago):  https://youtu.be/bnN5mdblvRk

                  With most vaccinated, Gibraltar eases mask rules (video from 4 weeks ago): https://youtu.be/uUS_al-AQ5k

              2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
                Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Arthur, I'm a student of the British Constitution. Thanks for the information that relates to democracy. Britain is a true welfare state unlike any other in the world.

                1. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  I think the liberal US media has been telling lots of lies about life here in the United States.

                  "In the USA people get poor working conditions with little security e.g. they are lucky if they get two weeks paid leave (vacation) per year, and no paid maternity leave for mothers; plus employees can be sacked at a moment’s notice in the USA for no real reason."

                  That isn't really true.  Some of the best working conditions in the world are found in the United States.  Two weeks is usually the norm for people just starting with a company.  Guess what?  It is now law for companies to provide paid maternity leave.  No, you can't be "sacked" at any time for no good reason.  You can be terminated for cause.  If you don't do your job, are a problem, harming the company, etc.  Yes, you can get let go.  But, if you choose to behave this way at work, you need to be let go. So, in the UK every person who doesn't do their work, is disruptive, causes problems, will have a job no matter how much damage they cause the company?  Seems a bit insane to me. 

                  It's good that in the UK 64 percent of workers are happy with their job.  In the United States the number is 85 percent

                  https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/01/85perce … 0dwspiegel

                  "In the USA people are enslaved to their job because if they lose their job they lose their medical insurance that’s financed by their employer."

                  That's right.  We have something called Medicare and Medicaid for disabled and disadvantaged people and numerous other health insurance plans to help people who don't have health insurance.  In the United States we have something you don't have in the UK, it's called options.  We don't have to just accept a single government plan, we have a wide variety of healthcare plans to choose from that cover many things.

                  "Plus in the UK, if you are unemployed or on a low wage, then the benefits you get from the Welfare State is rather generous compared to the meagre benefits you get in the USA; so in the UK people are more willing to chuck their job in if they are not satisfied with it, and go on the doll (unemployment) until they get another job that they prefer."

                  So, where is the incentive to work?  If you don't have to do anything to support yourself and just live off the government, why would anyone work?  The United States has the highest standard of living for any country with a population over 300 million.  People who just live off the government are looked down upon.

                  All this and STILL there are homeless in the UK.  Why? 

                  At this point NO covid Passports are required in the United States

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Employers in the US may let you go from your job without cause, absent a contract to do otherwise.  Just as employees can leave the job for any reason.  Seems quite fair and equitable to me.

                    Upon leaving, the employee has the option to continue their medical insurance at their own expense.  Also seems more than fair to me.

                    IMO the US has the highest standard of living in the world.  Of course it depends on what your personal priorities are; those who indicate European countries to don't prioritize things the way I do.

                  2. Nathanville profile image92
                    Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Thanks for the clarity:-

                    You say two weeks ‘annual leave’ is usually the norm in the USA for people just starting with a company.  In the UK it’s six weeks from day one.

                    It’s good to hear you do get paid maternity leave in the USA; how much do you get in the USA, in the UK it’s 39 weeks paid maternity leave, and two weeks paid paternity leave; albeit under the equal opportunities laws the wife can give most of her maternity leave to the husband if she so wishes (aka parental leave).

                    As regards getting the sack; after two years employment to be sacked in the UK the reason has to within the confines of the law, and the Company will have to have gone through a strict set of procedures in the first instance e.g. two verbal warnings and a written warning.  And even then the person who is sacked has a legal right to an Industrial Tribunal, which in the UK is a FREE Service run by ACAS (Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service).  ACAS is an ‘independent’ Government Department. 

                    Mock Employment Tribunal UK - What happens in an employment tribunal?  https://youtu.be/71wxEjFys6g

                    It’s good to hear that job satisfaction is high in the USA.  As regards healthcare, in the UK everyone, regardless to whether they are on a high income or unemployed are all entitled to the ‘same’ high level of care (for FREE); and that I am grateful for e.g. having spent three weeks in hospital earlier this year (kidney infection), the hospital have done countless tests, using loads of different medical equipment, such as various types of scans and x-rays etc. all to check my whole body from lungs, heart, and all other vital organs; and since being discharged from hospital I still have to go back as a day patient every few weeks for follow up checks;  and all this is costing me ‘NOTHING’.   Whereas, if all the equipment used on me, and my hospital stay, along with the initial ambulance ride to hospital when I was first admitted was added up, in the USA the bill would run into $10s of thousands of dollars, and on my pension I probably wouldn’t be able to afford it.

                    So I’d rather have ‘free’ universal healthcare for all, than have a ‘choice’ that I can’t afford.

                    Yep, you are partially right about the question of the incentive to work in the UK.  I do know people (close friends of ours) who have quite happy lived off the State most of their life, with hardly doing a day’s paid work in their life.  But for most people, they have ‘self-pride’ e.g. they feel better to have a job and be working than sponging off the state; and besides, if you are working then you are financially better off.

                    Yep, there are homeless in the UK, as in any country; but the problem is much smaller than in the USA e.g. we don’t have the ghettos.  In the UK, it’s a legal requirement by Local Governments to house people who become homeless; hence Council Houses.  So most people who are more permanently homeless in the UK tend to be those who don’t want or seek help e.g. drug addicts and or mentally ill etc. 

                    FYI a Council House is ‘Social Housing’ build and owned by local government, specifically to provide housing to the low paid and unemployed; and if you can’t afford the rent e.g. unemployed, then the National Government will pay your rent for you anyway (Housing Benefit).

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image71
            Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Arthur, that's correct and nothing could be further from the truth.                                                         I had to take the pain to point out this to Castlepaloma. Ca'a. claim to always use imagination and subconsious mind. No doubt. So is every strong academic qualified person.                                                Apparently, either   Castlepaloma's imagination is in conflict with his subconcious or concious mind. It appears the phychological law of reserve effort is working against him most times.

            1. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Yep.

            2. Castlepaloma profile image75
              Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Phychological law of reserve effort is working against him most times.

              I see I'm just wasting my time, enjoy the billionaires cub. Wait, your not in it.
              Well you always have synthetic and poli-tricks.

  4. Miebakagh57 profile image71
    Miebakagh57posted 12 months ago

    In Nigeria, leave rules seems similar to the United Kingdom except that junior civil servants takes two weeks.                                  The leave benefit or bonus is 10% of the basic annual salary. Companies both private and public have differing rates. Nevertheless, some firms choice to base they benefits on the civill service scale.                                             That said, civil servants are the worst pcid class of workers in  Nigeria. This is because the system is easily compromised with politic. Pensions and gratuity are hardly paid.

  5. Miebakagh57 profile image71
    Miebakagh57posted 12 months ago

    In Nigeria because lack of employment opportunities, tax payment seems to be doom.                                     However every self employ person who registered they business place/name with the government are required to declare income returns on which tax is computed. At most 100% false returns were submitted. But the PAYE is common in the civil service and companies.                                  Welfare befit like health is poor in the civil service. It's just $4.5 a month. There's no disability benefit                                 As said emploment is a problem. In fact the government of the day gjact and politiczed it. For examle late last year 2020 my Rivers state Governor budget $2.5 to employ 5,000 youths. Still waiting till date

  6. Miebakagh57 profile image71
    Miebakagh57posted 12 months ago

    Folks, yes that's it that's great and motivating. We're digress or off topic in the mean time.                                                 Let's get back topically. Viagra or diagra? Today, I sliced 10 gram each of fresh ginger, green chilli; 5 gram sweet basil plus 60 gram raw cooked banana(green plantain) for Sun drying.                                    When properly dried, and granded together is a sort of alternative medicine for erective dysfunction(ED).                                 Seriously, there're other home made remedies more safe than viagra or diagra.

    1. Nathanville profile image92
      Nathanvilleposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      An interesting recipe as a remedy for a basic but not life threatening condition, all quite harmless ingredients; and if it is effective then it certainly would be better than taking Viagra.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image71
        Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

        It's certainly effective. Or  I would not post such a response.                                 Besides being safe, it improve the alkalinity of the blood,  circulation, and heart health. The recipe is for persons who will not take the trouble to cook the the main meal from which the main ingredient is derived.

 
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