Trump, Religion, and Hypocrisy

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   My Esotericposted 40 hours ago

   I figured this subject area needed its own forum, so I started one.
   
   I asked myself (and ChatGPT) what would Jesus think of Trump today? Jesus was not above condemning people if they got on his wrong side. Based on this list of things he would condemn people for, clearly Trump would be at the top of the list today.
   
   * Religious hypocrites (Pharisees & scribes/“law experts”) — “Woe to you…” for showy piety, neglecting justice/mercy/faithfulness, and exploiting the vulnerable. (Matthew 23; Luke 11:37–54).
   
   * Those who lead others into sin — better to have a millstone than cause “little ones” to stumble. (Matthew 18:6; Luke 17:1–2).
   
   * An “evil and adulterous generation” fixated on signs and refusing repentance. (Matthew 12:39; 16:4; Mark 8:38).
   
   * False prophets and miracle-workers who do mighty deeds yet practice lawlessness—“I never knew you.” (Matthew 7:15–23).
   
   * The rich who ignore the poor — prophetic “woes” (Luke’s beatitudes) and the Rich Man & Lazarus warn of judgment on callous wealth. (Luke 6:24–26; 16:19–31).
   
   * Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit — singled out as an unforgivable, condemnable posture. (Mark 3:28–29; Matthew 12:31–32).
   
   Will any sane person, but a member of the Trump cult deny that Trump fits all those categories?
   
   How about MAUGA?
   
   * Religious hypocrites (Pharisees & scribes/“law experts”) — “Woe to you…” for showy piety, neglecting justice/mercy/faithfulness, and exploiting the vulnerable. (Matthew 23; Luke 11:37–54).
   
   * Those who lead others into sin — better to have a millstone than cause “little ones” to stumble. (Matthew 18:6; Luke 17:1–2).
   
   * An “evil and adulterous generation” fixated on signs and refusing repentance. (Matthew 12:39; 16:4; Mark 8:38).
   
   The rich MAUGA who ignore the poor — prophetic “woes” (Luke’s beatitudes) and the Rich Man & Lazarus warn of judgment on callous wealth. (Luke 6:24–26; 16:19–31).
   
   Seems to me you can find MAUGA in all those above. So, would Jesus condemn MAUGA? I would say probably.
   
   How about White evangelicals. I'll address that a little differently and use a test Jesus might use. Are they:
   
   * Welcome the Stranger (Matthew Luke 10:25-37): 70% of WEP see newcomers as Threats. 61% think immigrants are "invading", Only 45% feel there should be a path to citizenship and a whopping 75% oppose asylum entry.
   
   * Truthfulness (Matthew 5:37): 60% if WEP (White Evangelical Protestants) believe and propagate Trump's lies about the 2020 election. 30% believe in Qanon.
   
   * Peacemaking and nonviolence (Matthew 7:15-20): One-third of WEP think true American patriots need to individually resort to violence. 41% of WEP don't condemn the assault on police by the insurrectionists on Jan 6, 2021.
   
   * Treatment of the Vulnerable (Matthew 25:35-40):
   
   * Love  thy enemies (Matthew 5:44):
   
   * Humility (Mark 10:42-45): 37% of WEP are open to "rule-breaking" leaders. 77% of WEP wrongly think our founders intended America to be a "Christian Nation".
   
   * Care for the Poor (Matthew 25:35-40): This is one where they do show higher marks because of their charity work, but they oppose, generally, the gov't role in it.
   
   And in full disclosure - Trump does partially pass the Peacemaking test with his Abraham Accords and the First Step Act.

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      Credence2posted 40 hours agoin reply to this

      The Christian Right is much more of a political cult than a spiritual movement. The most disgusting of people hiding behind Jesus and Christianity as the foul insides of a dirty cup yet one that is all shiny on the outside.

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         Ken Burgessposted 37 hours agoin reply to this

         Amen Brother!
         
         On a completely unrelated note... I think this is what Americans... normal Americans... are getting sick of hearing about... every...single...day... and why Trump's efforts in DC and LA and anywhere else will continue to garner support:
         
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sMZJU_1tAY

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            My Esotericposted 32 hours agoin reply to this

            Garner support? His martial law is not going over well anywhere in America except with MAUGA (the 38% in a recent poll) who apparently prefer to live in a police state.
            
            I seriously doubt Jesus would be applauding what Trump has done.

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               Readmikenowposted 25 hours agoin reply to this

               martial law?
               
               You seem to be struggling with the definition of this word.

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                  My Esotericposted 23 hours agoin reply to this

                  What does that have to do with Jesus?

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                     Readmikenowposted 19 hours agoin reply to this

                     "Garner support? His martial law is not going over well anywhere in America except with MAUGA"

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            Willowarborposted 28 hours agoin reply to this

            Polls clearly show that Americans overwhelmingly do not support the military take over of cities.

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            Credence2posted 27 hours agoin reply to this

            Ok, Ken we can digress just a bit. The other day someone killed two children and injured 17 or more at a Catholic school. What sort of beast assaults school children? In spite of the conservative ruse of trans this and trans that, the only common denominator in this equation is the fact that the assailant was white, male and young. Perhaps, I can see a picture of his face on the TV as well?

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               Ken Burgessposted 26 hours agoin reply to this

               Yeah, people are tired of that... race is not... well, should not be the issue... lack of enforcement of law, lack of order, is the problem.
               
               You know someone shared a link to an article that had told the story of locals protecting their school, back in the 70s, it showed a picture of a couple of men standing relaxed in front of a school with rifles.
               
               And then we 'progressed' to a point where Americans were told it is not OK for citizens to protect themselves like that, they needed to let the police do it, it was their job... and then we get to just a few years ago, where 'Defund the Police' was all the rage...
               
               Don't protect your kids... let the police do it... don't fund the police, don't allow them on school grounds... there is no one to protect the kids.
               
               So its time for a reversal of all that... restore order... restore the enforcement of law... stop worrying about the rights of criminals... start worrying about protecting innocent people.

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                  Willowarborposted 25 hours agoin reply to this

                  No one is worried about protecting criminals. School shootings were not on anyone's radar in the '70s and Trump is the one who is actually defunding the police...

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   Willowarborposted 28 hours ago

   How can someone be both Christian and MAGA at the same time? They don't mesh. You are either one or the other.
   
   “I was a stranger and you welcomed me... whatever you did for one of the least of these, you did for me.”
   Matthew 25:35,40

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 28 hours ago

   The teachings of Jesus are so far removed from the Trump/MAGA agenda as to be unrecognizeable.

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      Willowarborposted 26 hours agoin reply to this

      When I think of Maga and Christianity the saying "There is no hate quite like Christian love" comes to mind .
      
      It's sad to see just how much Christianity has deviated away from Christ’s teaching and strayed away from what we, as Christians are called to do and be.

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         Kathleen Cochranposted 23 hours agoin reply to this

         So true. Do you realize today's MAGA movement descends from the 1970's Moral Majority that was created by presidents of Christian colleges who wanted to keep their tax-exempt status without having to integrate their schools? They wanted to create a voting block of church members but couldn't enough of them to commit to their objective. So they chose anti-abortion instead. That worked and today we have MAGAs. Google it.

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            My Esotericposted 22 hours agoin reply to this

            Pretty anti-Jesus if you ask me. I suspect Jesus would have condemned them for that.

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               Readmikenowposted 19 hours agoin reply to this

               "I suspect Jesus would have condemned them for that."
               
               You need to actually sit down and read the Bible instead of cherry-picking scriptures and then using them out of context.
               
               If you do, you'll find out how untrue the above statement is.

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4. 83

   Readmikenowposted 25 hours ago

   When I read what is written by the left when it comes to the Bible I think of Romans 1:22
   
   "Professing themselves to be wise, they proved to be fools"

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      Sharlee01posted 24 hours agoin reply to this

      So true...

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         Readmikenowposted 19 hours agoin reply to this

         Shar,
         
         I have had the experience of debating people from the left on the teachings of the Bible.  Talk about warped concepts.  One person tried to tell me the Bible endorses Homosexuality and same sex marriages.
         
         The left's game when it comes to the teachings in the Bible is to take verses out of context and subvert their meanings. They then try to apply them to real world situations and unless you really know about the Bible's verses, the history of the scriptures, the history of the people in the scriptures, you could get taken in by them.
         
         It's a shame but the left tries this delusional smoke screen on the unknowing all the time. Many are gullible to fall for it.
         
         Like it says in Romans 15:4
         
         "For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope."
         
         There is also
         
         "And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."   Ephesians 6:17

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            Sharlee01posted 18 hours agoin reply to this

            In my view, the gender issue said a lot, but I know some believe the Bible would condone abortion and even gender reassignment. What strikes me more, though, is how some on the left display such open hostility toward anyone who doesn’t share their ideas. I honestly don’t understand how they can live with that kind of unchecked hate. I am certain Jesus would never condone such judgmental bitterness.
            
            It’s difficult to engage with people like this. On one hand, it tests my patience, yet on the other, it stirs a sense of sympathy for what I see as lost souls.

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      My Esotericposted 23 hours agoin reply to this

      Aren't you talking about MAUGA? Many on the Left actually believe in Jesus and try to live up to his teachings.

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         Kathleen Cochranposted 22 hours agoin reply to this

         Yes, sir, they do. They just need to vote like it.

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         Readmikenowposted 19 hours agoin reply to this

         "Left actually believe in Jesus and try to live up to his teachings."
         
         Now, THAT if funny.  It just tells me how detached the left is from reality especially the teachings of the Bible.  How sad.  A person from the left once tried to tell me that the Bible endorses homosexuality.  What a bizarre and warped idea.
         
         When I read that I said we need to cue the theme from the Twilight Zone.

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            My Esotericposted 19 hours agoin reply to this

            How many times have you read the Bible cover to cover?

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               Readmikenowposted 5 hours agoin reply to this

               More than once.

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            My Esotericposted 16 hours agoin reply to this

            Christians aren’t a voting bloc. Millions on the left and right sincerely try to follow Jesus. The Bible doesn’t “endorse” homosexuality, but faithful Christians disagree about how the few relevant passages apply today—especially since Jesus never addressed it directly. Disagreement ≠ detachment from reality. If we’re going to argue as Christians, let’s do it the way Jesus taught: with humility, truth, and love (John 13:35; Matt 7:1–5), not mockery or caricature.

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5. 85

   Sharlee01posted 24 hours ago

   Just my view --- When looking at Trump through the lens of action and service, one can see a man who has focused on practical solutions for the people. He has taken steps to address homelessness by providing shelters, hotels, and essential services, worked to reduce conflicts abroad and promote peace, and implemented policies aimed at supporting lower-income families and communities. Jesus would look at deeds, at the work put into one’s tasks, and understand that no one is perfect. Yet, when someone is good in deed, those actions can overshadow words. As James 2:17 reminds us, "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead," and 1 John 3:18 tells us, “Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.” Proverbs 14:23 further underscores this principle: “In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty,” highlighting the value of working and doing, not just speaking or planning. Viewed in this way, a perspective grounded in Scripture might recognize that he works to protect life, alleviate suffering, and create conditions for safety and prosperity. While no leader is flawless, these tangible deeds reflect initiative, decisiveness, and a concern for results, qualities that align with the values Jesus repeatedly emphasized: mercy, care for the vulnerable, and peacemaking. From this standpoint, one could reasonably see him as a man striving to make a positive impact in the lives of those around him.
   
   Matthew 7:1–2 – “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
   
   Please do not respond to my comment; this is simply my view. It sickens me that I even feel compelled to share it. It sickens me to witness such harsh judgment placed on another person, a stranger whose heart none of us, including myself, truly knows.
   
   Perhaps a better question is not “What would Jesus think of Trump?” but rather, “What would He think of me?”

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6. 82

   quotationsposted 22 hours ago

   Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.
   
   What is even sadder is that you get religious advice from ChatGPT.

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      Sharlee01posted 17 hours agoin reply to this

      You took the words right out of my mouth.

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7. 84

   My Esotericposted 22 hours ago

   I just read a post present as a 'view" but were claims were statements of facts that needed checking out. Since AI can research this stuff more thoroughly and faster than I can, I put the entire passage to it. This is the response.
   
   Short answer: partly true, mostly misleading. Here’s the line-by-line:
   
   “Addressed homelessness by providing shelters, hotels, and essential services.”
   
   True for 2020 COVID response: FEMA and HUD funded hoteling and related services (e.g., ESG-CV, non-congregate shelter). I have to wonder if they would be able to do that today.
   
   But in 2025: a new executive order directs HUD/HHS to end federal support for “Housing First” and reorient grants away from that model—i.e., away from the very approach that paid for hotels and services.
   
   Verdict: cherry-picked. Early COVID hoteling happened; current policy moves the opposite way.
   
   
   “Worked to reduce conflicts abroad and promote peace.”
   
   Credit where due: the Abraham Accords (2020) normalized ties between Israel and several Arab states.
   
   
   But now: the administration is trying a “pocket rescission” to cancel ~$5B in foreign aid (peacekeeping, democracy programs)—a move widely criticized as unlawful and counter to U.S. diplomacy.
   
   Verdict: mixed at best: notable 2020 diplomacy, but current cuts undercut the claim of broad “peacemaking.”
   
   
   “Implemented policies aimed at supporting lower-income families and communities.”
   
   Some initiatives: Opportunity Zones boosted investment/housing supply in some places, but evidence on jobs/poverty is limited or mixed.
   
   Big 2025 changes: the administration’s marquee law and budget push large cuts and new work rules in Medicaid/SNAP, with CBO/KFF estimating hundreds of billions in reductions and coverage losses—hitting low-income households hardest.
   Verdict: the overall 2025 policy mix is not pro-poor.
   
   
   Scripture citations: the verses quoted (James 2:17; 1 John 3:18; Prov 14:23) are accurate, but whether they “overlook words” depends on context—biblical ethics also condemn lying, injustice, and partiality.  All Trump Hallmarks
   
   Bottom line
   
   The comment overstates Trump’s record: it highlights a few real actions (COVID hoteling; Abraham Accords) but omits current shifts (ending Housing First support; cutting foreign aid; deep Medicaid/SNAP reductions). On net, the claim is misleading.

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 15 hours ago

   "How many times have you read the Bible cover to cover?"
   
   I was challenged in my mid-30s to read the Bible like a single book. I've read five translations in 35 years. (I highly recommend the chronological Bible!)
   
   "Christians aren't a voting bloc."  Maybe I should have said "Evangelicals" since that is how so many in the media identify the political group.
   
   While a great deal of debate has gone on over human sexuality, until the mid 1940s the word homosexual wasn't in any translation of the Bible. After some 2,000 years the word rapist was translated homosexual - changing the meaning significantly.
   
   One of many references: https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has … the-bible/

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      Readmikenowposted 5 hours agoin reply to this

      Sorry,
      
      That's simply wrong.
      
      Homosexuality has been mentioned in the Bible as far back as the King James Version that was published in 1611.

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         My Esotericposted 3 hours agoin reply to this

         No, Kathleen is right. The word, homosexual, simply doesn't appear. Now, some people have interpreted the Bible's words to mean homosexual, but she is right - in MOST instances, it is referring to rape or violence of some sort.
         
         Interestingly, Leviticus is the OLNY place in the Bible where male-on-male love is specifically forbidden. (Female-on-female is not.) Further, it is only one passage in Leviticus where it is highlighted. So, where did Leviticus get the idea it was prohibited? He says from Moses, that God told Moses. Unfortunately for Leviticus, Moses doesn't back him up on that. The closest he comes is when he spoke about male temple prostitutes. He doesn't get it from the Ten Commandments either.
         
         So, why did he write such words? Apparently, to separate the Israelites from "others", specifically, the Canaanites. That, to me, is an ulterior motive and not a God-driven directive.
         
         Then there is also this problem. Sexual orientation isn’t chosen; it’s a natural outcome of biology—polygenic influences, prenatal conditions, and developmental pathways—with genetics contributing alongside other factors. Many Christians would say such biological realities fall under God’s providence, though they differ on whether God directly wills them or permissively allows them. In any case, it is not the individual.

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            Kathleen Cochranposted 2 hours agoin reply to this

            Bottom line: God said "Whosoever will, may come." He didn't point to anybody or any group and say, "But not you."
            
            Also coming to mind: "He who is without sin, throw the first stone."

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            Readmikenowposted 71 minutes agoin reply to this

            "Sexual orientation isn’t chosen; it’s a natural outcome of biology"
            
            That is a topic for debate.  Interesting how hundreds of people leave the gay lifestyle every year.  Did they change their biology?

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               My Esotericposted 24 minutes agoin reply to this

               It is actually not. If you think it is, give me the science that shows it is debatable.
               
               Also, there is a huge difference between "leaving" the gay lifestyle and "stop" having natural feelings toward the same sex. If I were gay and had a gun held to my head with someone telling me to stop, I would probably considering hiding it.

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                  Readmikenowposted 16 minutes agoin reply to this

                  “Born That Way” No More: The New Science of Sexual Orientation
                  
                  A new study adds to a growing body of evidence demonstrating that the dominant narrative about sexual orientation—that it is genetically determined—simply cannot be true. Instead, the science shows that a person’s sexual orientation and choice of partners depends heavily on the development and expression of personal autonomy regarding one’s own sexual possibilities. People with same-sex attractions should be legally and culturally free not to identify with or act on them.
                  
                  https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/09/57342/

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                     Ken Burgessposted 2 minutes agoin reply to this

                     The problem is not that you can find supporting evidence...
                     
                     The problem is that the 'Progressives', along with those that seek to undermine the nation from within, have spent plenty of money making sure that there are science-psychology tests add nauseum that will show exactly what results they want.
                     
                     The whole Post-Modern there is no truth, therefore the truth is whatever we make it to be... becomes quite problematic... if you hadn't noticed when arguing with these ideologues... where the only sources of facts-truth are the ones they approve of, and any that counter their facts-truth must be 'Right-Wing' or 'Fascist" etc.
                     
                     But people who can use common sense and think critically, eventually they become aware of what is going on... sooner or later they are asked to accept or believe in a lie so big, to accept it is to deny their own sanity.
                     
                     Reminds me of that 'discussion' Credence and I were having recently about Disney... this person's reaction is exactly what I'm talking about:
                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY9AFW2Iqrc
                     
                     And once a person wakes up from being 'woke' ... or as they say ... become aware that the Left has left them... there is no going back.

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         Sharlee01posted 2 hours agoin reply to this

         It has certainly been mentioned. Some people will even go so far as to twist what is written in the Bible to fit their own narrative—clinging to a single word or phrase while ignoring the larger context. As has become a norm for some in our society. 
         
         But the truth is, the Bible is very clear on the subject of homosexuality. The context leaves little room for confusion; it is direct, blunt, and paints an unmistakable picture. One of the clearest passages is found in Leviticus 18:22: “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” And this is not the only place. Other verses, such as Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:9–10, all reaffirm the same teaching. There are multiple examples, and together they make the Bible’s position unmistakably clear.

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            Kathleen Cochranposted 2 hours agoin reply to this

            If you only accept one translation.

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            Readmikenowposted 67 minutes agoin reply to this

            Romans 1:26
            
            That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.

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            Readmikenowposted 63 minutes agoin reply to this

            Shar,
            
            It amazes me how many people refuse to acknowledge these passages.  Some people claiming to be Christians ignore them and act if these verses in the Bible don't exist.
            
            I've had to deal with this for decades.
            
            It's a shame.

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      My Esotericposted 2 hours agoin reply to this

      Mine was three. The first was around 5th grade, the next sometime in high school, and once again in college.

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         Kathleen Cochranposted 2 hours agoin reply to this

         5th grade? Wow. All I knew at that age was the verses we memorized in Sunday School.
         
         I need to start again. It always takes me years to get through it. What translation did you get the most out of?

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            My Esotericposted 105 minutes agoin reply to this

            I only read one which I presume was the King James version; anyway it was the one we had at home. (I think I still have it somewhere.) As I recall, my mom tried to raise me as a Methodist.
            
            Even at that tender age (around 1957) I was into politics (the Red Scare and all that) and religion. Religion because what I heard in Sunday School didn't resonate with my sense of what was right and wrong (I am a Libra) As soon as I got past Genesis, I became rather put out by what I was reading. From there, I just kept digging deeper.

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   tsmogposted 12 hours ago

   —Jeremiah 17:10

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      Sharlee01posted 2 hours agoin reply to this

      I was taught God most certainly looks beyond outward appearances. He searches the heart and the innermost thoughts, the “reins”. He judges people not just by what they say, but by their true intentions and the results of their actions. 
      
      This is what I’ve come to understand from Jeremiah 17:10: it reminds me how far we’ve drifted from looking beyond outward appearances. In my view, I’ve never seen such a divide, and I can’t help but wonder if it’s in part because we’ve come to believe we have the right to judge—sitting in judgment while too often ignoring deeds and focusing only on the appearance of words. Instead of judging by surface impressions, we are called to look deeper, to discern true intentions and the fruit of a person’s actions.
      
      Maybe you could share what Jeremiah 17:10 means to you—I’d really like to hear your perspective.

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    Kathleen Cochranposted 4 hours ago

    https://biblehub.com/q/when_was_'homose … _bible.htm
    
    https://www.advocate.com/religion/2022/ … ys-pariahs
    
    https://www.answers.com/math-and-arithm … ames_bible

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    My Esotericposted 119 minutes ago

    Using the Catholic/Lutheran version (there are three, actually), does ANYONE disagree that Trump frequently violates the following Commandments: #2, #3, #5 (maybe), #6, #7,#8, #9, and #10?
    
    #2 - You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain: If you have ever gone to his rallies, you know he takes God's name in vain frequently. He has been heard to do the same in the Oval office and other official meetings.
    
    #3 - Keeping Sundays Holy: He has never been known to do this publicly. Occasionally, he has been seen in a church but all too often, he is not doing holy things, at least as this Commandment intended. Does he pray at home privately? That is always possible, I suppose.
    
    #5 - You shall not kill: This is a "maybe" and depends on who you define kill. In the most direct since - has Trump personally killed another? Probably not. Has Trump directed that someone be killed? More than likely not although there is at least one occasion where that may be a possibility. Now, if "kill" means actions that led to the death of another, then Trump has violated this many, many times. One example is all the excess COVID deaths attributed to his purposeful mishandling of the pandemic. Another are deaths directly attributed to his denial of aid from USAID.
    
    #6 - You shall not commit adultery: A repeat offender.
    
    #7 - You shall not steal: He has been convicted of it. His charity was banned because of it, Many more examples.
    
    #8 - You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor: An unimaginable number of times.
    
    #9 - You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife: There are at least two verified reports from married women Trump has hit on. Then there is that infamous Access Hollywood tape where he admits it directly.
    
    #10 - You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods: While "coveting" is an "inward" thing, many of Trump's actions point heavily in the direction that he does.
    
    Boy, what a terrible record.
    
    Now, I am not naive enough to think there is anybody on earth, living or dead, who hasn't violated some or all of those Commandments on more than one occasion. If that is the case, then how do you measure it? I am forced to look at quantity and/or seriousness.
    
    By that measure it is clear to me Trump is a serial violator to the Ten Commandments and any attempt to say otherwise is pure hypocrisy and probably a violation of the 8th Commandment.

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