Modern Christianity glorifies Jesus and not God. The modern christian churches have made Jesus more important than God and to my way of thinking that just isn't What Jesus Would Do, or what Jesus would want.
He certainly would not and is not proud there are so many churches that are forgetting the true meaning of the word (good or bad) and many are in it for the almighty dollar they certainly are not stating truth. For the good churches I commend them and for the bad ones they should close their doors. So the answer to the question is 'God' happy for those of us who believe the answer is simple, " No. "
Jesus said,"The only way to the father is through me."
But that really isn't the question I asked is it? By that quote I believe that what Jesus meant was not that Jesus was the second in charge and only if he said it was ok would you be allowed to pass through the gate Jesus was guarding. I believe that Jesus meant he was telling you/us/them the truth of what God is, and only by understanding what Jesus was teaching would you be able to understand what God is. "The only path to the Father(a primitives name for God) is this way, the way I'm(Jesus) leading you to(the concepts and understandings of what God truly is)."
No Mike, you have a very good point. Jesus always gave glory to the Father. Sooner.
Well I pray to Heavenly Father and thank him for the gift of his son Jesus and his atonement for my sins, so I might return to Heaven.
You don't understand.
Jesus IS God.
I'm not meaning the "Jesus Only" people who think man can become God.
I mean that Jesus is a part of the Godhead, inseparable from God the Father and the Holy Spirit. "They" are all 3 ....God in One.
Yes I understand that concept. I don't agree with it though. We are all a part of God because God is everything. Jesus too is a part of God Jesus is not however God. Even if Jesus was the "SON" of God that does not make Jesus God. I'm not convinced that Jesus was the "blood kin" of God I think that the references of Jesus the son of God are born out of a desire to elevate Jesus above other people, other humans. The whole God is just(only) 3 entities (God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost [the Godhead]) is too limiting a view of God for me to swallow. I think of God as much more than that.
To answer your post's question- Would Jesus be proud? No!
On the other hand, I'll offer up some knowledge which might help figure out the root of the problem. The 'church' and I am talking about the 'heirarchy' of religions, want to direct people's attention to Jesus, because he was a real man that lived and claimed to be God? It is IN the best interests of the 'church' leaders that people IDENTIFY with a real person, instead of a mystical God, which has been dismissed by science.
In the early 1970's, religion was debunked, because a collaborative of different science fields when lumped together, proves that God does not exist in reality. However, it has not stopped people from believing in God or Jesus. The 'church' did what it could to discredit parts of some of the science fields, so as to discredit the findings. And, it has worked for a long time.
On that note- that is the primary shift in today's 'church' and the positions of the leaders. Science is making wonderful discoveries all the time and everytime it does, it strikes at the house of God, religion itself.
To put things into perspective one only needs to look and see, the underlying basis for religion, to know whether or not, what it says is true?
Religion was founded by man. Hence, man created the 'god' concept. Religion is a business and is described as a company that is based on a specific code of ethics, for which are bound to or bonded to a higher cause.
I reject all religion, which have to do with mystical Gods. The reason I say that is because- Science, is a religion of sorts.
I hoped I helped. It was a great question, but took some time to write the reply. Sorry for the delay.
OK Thanks for your contribution Cags.
The only thing I want to ask of you is if there is no God and science as you say has proved that. Where is that proof? Proof that there is no proof, of the existence of God, Is NOT proof that God doesn't exist.
Science, or logical reasoning(which is a science) actually proves to me that God does exist... To whit: If there is a lowest form of life there has to be a highest. Humanity has named that highest form of life God. Where humanity has a problem is in the identification of what that Highest form of life is. (which isn't what this forum was suppose to be about).
That "lowest"and"Highest"thing is a great response bro.
I'd like to point out that to date not a shred of evidence has been produced that Jesus ever existed.He's not mentioned in any historical documents of the time from any other culture.
You might consider reading up on the Gnostic's and the use of personification to represent abstract concepts.
It can be a real eye opener.
"I'd like to point out that to date not a shred of evidence has been produced that Jesus ever existed.He's not mentioned in any historical documents of the time from any other culture."
I always thought that Josephus recorded Jesus as a real person, indeed there seems to be more reference to Jesus than to may of the Ceasars of that time.
Pliny the Younger also wrote about Him as did Tacitus.
The thing is this Agua,Jesus is the evolved name which has been revised a few times.The literal translation is Reveal-er.Early Christians had the annoying(lol) habit of assigning personification to abstract concepts.I'm certain Jesus existed but not so sure as a person.Josephus dose mention him and attributes human qualities as well but in the context of the times those were in line with the integrity of the lessons taught,arent the teachings what is really Important.I'd like to recommend a book(I'd give it to you but I can't bare to part with it).Lost Christianities by Bart D Ehrman.I promise you won't be disappointed and it may strengthen your faith.It did mine.
You have an excellent grasp of scripture but there are other works by those same writers that have been authenticated.Book of John"these are just a few of the things Jesus said and did.I suppose if you put them all in books they would fill up the whole world"Would you agree that John was the most spiritual of the disciples?Was John not "the disciple that Jesus loved".As you know my friend I am not a Christian in the accepted sense.I do how ever respect and admire Real Christians like you and hate what is being done to your religion.
Hope you and yours are well and happy...peace...
'"Would you agree that John was the most spiritual of the disciples?Was John not "the disciple that Jesus loved".'
John was not the disciple that Jesus loved most. John was practicing Christ's love for him when he said that. Look at the comparison between Peter and John. Peter boasted of his love for Christ, while John boasted of Christ's love for him. Peter denied Christ three times fleeing Golgotha, while John was at the foot of the cross. If you boast of your love for Christ, you are boasting of something that you have, which is a self focused thing and not the focus that God wants us to have!
Also, if Jesus wasn't an actual person, then we'd still be under the Law. Which requires us to make burnt offerings and sacrifices, to go through a several day cleansing process before we enter the temple where God dwells. If Jesus wasn't real, then His physical death and resurection never happened. Thus, we are all doomed to burn. If He didn't physically receive the punishment we so deserve, then we are all for naught!
Jesus became God incarnate on earth, everything that God created was created for His Son, Immanuel (God with us). We are not meant to, nor do we have the capacity to understand God as a Triune being. We simply just know the basic fact that God is 3-in-1, as also we are created in His image (flesh, soul, and spirit). And every part receives our worship and praise no matter which One we pray to! The Apostles declared that in the name of Jesus Christ that people be healed, and they were! So please! let us not get into a debate of which part of God we should pray to! All Three are One in the Same!
I would also like to mention that Jesus, in His time here on earth, wasn't actually called Jesus, but Yeshua, which is a derivitive of Joshua, which in Hebrew means "Jehovah is Salvation." Then there's it's Greek counterpart, Iesous, which means the exact same thing!
Intellectualizing these things only distracts us from the real point. That is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. And we can't do that unless we know how much God loves us. So we should offer ourselves to God to be filled with His love so that we can share it with EVERYONE! If we are not filled with His love, we are working off of our own gumption and futile efforts.
God knew and knows that christianity would get to the point that it's at now. I don't think that Jesus would be ashamed, because we're getting closer and closer to His Second Coming! Everything that is happening must happen and come to pass in order for Christ to return! Amen!
Well said ... that is the bottom line.
And then it is a good thing when we attempt to understand more or "the rest of the story"..BUT... not if we loose focus of the basic truth.
You forgot to tell me how I'm going to burn in Hell for misleading people.your grasp of the real truth is clearly inspired by your understanding of your scripture which I suppose comes from reading your bible in context in one of the three original languages if not all.you move from stating what is written to explaining why and labeling Facts when they do not qualify,then you proceed to Profecing what shall be and even when it shall be. Self assured Christians do not Preach about what God nows and is like,thats why your Faith was given to you.also,John LIVED with Christ,Paul never even met the Guy.The only factual thing about TODAYS Bible is that it exists.
Hi Cheaptrick, I will try to find the book, I love reading and there is nothing to fear from knowledge if read with a spiritual eye open!
Lost Christianities by Bart D Ehrman.
I'll Google and Amazon it, I always recommend folk to read 'Torch of the Testimony by some guy called Kennedy, if you Amazon him his books there for about $4 (it's old now) but its worth reading as it traces the actual 'torch' of faith through the centuries and various sects and denominations that hijacked it in the first place, but the trial is there to follow and it leads from Christ to you and me if we will pick it up!
If we don't speak aforehand.... Have Blessed Christmas, even if it's not the right date for His birth!
Not when a Christian say Jesus is the only son of god , the rest are just prophets, follow Jesus he is the only way or else one is doomed.
OK let me make sure I understand what your saying. If what your saying is...
No, Jesus would not be proud of Modern Christianity when Modern Christianity says anyone following a prophet and not Jesus is doomed to hell. That unless you follow Jesus and disregard everything else you are told you are doomed to hell. By following "Jesus" what is meant is following the men in control of the Modern Christian Churches and their interpretation of Jesus's will.
The whole do this or you will suffer eternal torture in the here-after(do what your told or you will burn in Hell forever), sounds strangely like terrorist rhetoric to me. In my experience of God, threats of torture aren't needed, and they just aren't God's style. God wants us to come to our own conclusions, be that through our own logic, or our feelings, and instincts. If God needed threats to make us do what God intended, God wouldn't be God. Men need threats to get what they want, not God.
Correct as the message of all prophets is the same. They all inspire man to find god within themselves.It is ego which makes one say my religion or prophets is the best or greatest and only true path to god.
This mentality has been the cause of many ugly wars and Jesus or any of the prophets want nothing to do with this.
Your second paragraph is perfect.
I would amagine the dude would check out the weekly deposits and check back in later with an assessment.
Mike you do see correctly, for they have made the man Jesus the object of their worship.
Thus worshipping images instead of God.
In following Jesus' teaching they fail to recognise when jesus is speaking as a man or as the spirit Christ.
For example he said "the words I speak are Spirit and they are life".
False christianity see all the written words of Jesus as Spirit and life,
But what is meant that the words of the Christ within a person are Spirit and life.
Therefore following an external Jesus is false Christianity ,
But following the internal Christ is true fellowship with God.
I think he would view it much like he did with the Jews.
Hell no Jesus would absolutly not be proud of modern christianity, I don't believe it wa ever meant to evolve in the ridiculous way that it has
Actually, according even to early Christianity as far back as the New Testament, glorifying Jesus is glorifying God, as Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity and has both a human and Divine nature.
...thought there was a big debate about this in the third century (though perhaps I shouldn't dip my toe, as I'm just passing through )
So you believe that Jesus wanted Christianity to be about Jesus? Or in other words that Yes Jesus would be proud of Modern Christianity?
I doubt if Jesus would understand modern Christianity let alone approve of it. He was a holy Jew. There are still elements of Judaism in modern Christianity. There are also a lot of pagan elements.
No, Jesus would not be happy with the modern church.
He knew He would not before He left first time and asked the (rhetorical) question:
Luke 18:6 "....when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”
as for the practice of giving Jesus more attention than God, it bothered me when I first came to faith, but I came from a Jewish tradition so it was more difficult to accept this 'Jesus' as someone I should worship.... however, the bible does tell us:
Matthew 28 16:
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them.
When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying;
“All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
So I guess, as Jesus DID NOT rebuke them for worshipping Him, we are safe to assume it was acceptable to God, who anyway had given ALL AUTHORITY to Him.
If Jesus has ALL authority, surely we do as He says?
...and He is worthy of worship and praise.
He would just say, as before :
Father forgive them, because they don't know what they are doing.
I reckon jesus would be embarrassed with all them shrouds turning up every christmas.
well , maybe you don't that Jesus and God are one. Jesus said i and my father are one. hear what the bible says :Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.
Joh 14:7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. And from now on you know Him and have seen Him.
Yes, and again, because this ground gets repeated many many, many, many, times... Each 'new' conversation with a christian starts off with the christian stating that obviously, because I disagree with modern christianities view of Jesus, the Bibles, and of God, that evidently I have been under a rock somewhere and just have not been exposed to the modern christian faiths dogma.
Let me state for the record, I have heard all the statements, claims, dogma, backgrounds, chapter and verse quotes, that modern christians use to justify their position. Also for the record I am stating that after having heard all of that, for 43 years, I am still convinced that modern christianity is mistaken. The modern christian faith claims to be one thing, but the reality is they ARE NOT Christ like, in fact in my humble opinion they are closer to the entity they despise the most. The modern Christian churches spout hate, fear, terrorism, and disdain for any that disagree with them.
Continuing to quote what the cavemen(biblical authors) said, as absolute truth and the only truth we are or will ever be capable of understanding, is absurd at best. God does not and did not want humanity to be ignorant, subservient, fools following blindly for all eternity the writings of a people we have far surpassed thousands of years ago. So please don't come to me to tell me how things are, I know what you believe, it has been well publisized, well documented, stated again and again and again for hundreds and hundreds of years. You have nothing new to offer because that is the basis of your belief, that there IS nothing new. nothing new to see, think or understand EVER. I understand your beliefs. I understand your point of view. I know in my heart of hearts that it is flawed.
I'm a believer and I really have a hard time with modern churches. I don't see anywhere where Jesus said to pray to him.
I agree, I don't pray to Jesus. However, I pray through Jesus. Let me explain.
Jesus died for our sins. That, I think, is why some people put so much emphasis on him. I worship him not only because he died for my sins, but because he also over came sin and death. I believe and try and follow Jesus Christ because he overcame death. I know that he did it for us so that we could live again with our families. I pray to God in the name of Christ, because Christ is the perfect advocate. God will forgive my sins if I repent because of Jesus Christ, so I put his name on my prayers.
Jesus Christ is so important to me. I agree he is not selfish, he did what he did so that we could see God again, not for his own glory. He meant to bring us to God. For this reason I love him and worship him.
I can understand why a lot of people have problems with Modern Christianity. I believe strongly that much of the Gospel of Christ was lost in apostasy. After his apostles were killed he really had no one to carry on his true gospel.
Jesus Christ loved us enough to die for us, so of course he will restore the truth to all of us. I believe he has called Prophets (men who speak for God) and apostles to teach us that true Gospel again.
If anyone here believes that Prophets and Apostles once existed, and realizes how important it is that we have them again, you can visit this website: Mormon.org to learn about these modern prophets and apostles who teach about Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father. The Spirit of God is so strong when they speak. I am a member of the Church, but I can't speak for the church. Go check it out.
I just want everyone to know that I know God lives and loves us as our Father. We are his Children. Jesus is our Saviour and redeemer, he payed the price we could never pay. Though he died for us, he now lives for us! I know he wants us to learn about him so he has called a modern prophet to lead and guide his Church. I know it is true! I love God and everyone. God speaks to us, and will tell us the truth, we don't have to wonder or follow anyone blindly. The Gospel is true.
They are of course the same, "If you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father" By glorifying Christ we glorify the Father. I recently was in Italy and all the early paintings were of Christ, so this phenomanon is not new
No you don't glorify God by Glorifying Jesus, you Glorify Jesus. Even if on some level people are suppose to truly believe and understand that: Two seperate entities can somehow be one single entity. Just that concept is confusing at best. Add to that the fact on some occasions when people use the name Jesus they mean God and othertimes they mean just Jesus. The whole two being one concept is lost on most of us and it (glorifying God as Jesus) just becomes glorifying Jesus. If the name most heard is Jesus, it is about Jesus.
I think as a whole he would just be disgusted with how people treat each other in general. There is alot about Christianity that is not talked about because the zealots and fanatics are more entertaining and press worthy. And there are alot of people calling themselves Christian merely because they go to church or pick up the Bible from time to time. I couldn't call myself Christian and won't, because honestly God is not my first priority in life, neither is it my goal to be more Christlike or imitate Christ's life and actions.
I tried that for awhile and in a way it was a very comforting and even pleasant experience but in the end the direction I was going just wasn't what I wanted at all, and I was not prepared to sacrifice my personal dreams and hopes in order to follow what someone told me God's will for my life was.Before that is misconstrued as an attack on faith or belief, its not. Religion is the problem, it makes us dependent on others for what is supposed to be an intimate personal relationship with God. In effect it relieves us from responsibility for our own destiny and direction in life.
I think Jesus would not approve of the shear amount of our lives wasted on "how" we should live a good life as opposed to just doing it. Remember Jesus was a Jew who came for the salvation of his people and faith, not to start a new religion. He was dead set against religion and its elitism, and rules that served only to enslave the poor to the wealthy and powerful.
You believe in Jesus and you make non stop character judgements. Aren't you the one to speak.
Reporting what you are displaying and showing with every post isn't judgment Marine its just the obvious. Fact, you go from thread to thread trying to pick arguments to stir up strife. Fact, I never said what I believe or in, I recounted previous experiences and thoughts. Fact, I'm not Christian or profess to be so do not in anyway shape or form feel saddened to tell you to go screw yourself and anytime you would like an attitude adjustment I would gladly give you an address and number where I can be found. You have no character, you're a bottom feeding parasite, now if I were to judge that about you I'd say it was going to land you in hell someday, but that's not for me to decide. So it's just an observation in the meantime.
If that is the case, why do I often agree with people and people sometimes agree with me? lol Now you want to meet up and fight because I called you on your emotional faithful assumptions? I thought I didn't know how to use logic? I think you need to understand a logical mind doesn't get upset crying wanting to fight someone because you can't control yourself. You play a great role as a religionist with your hell judgement. All you have are faithful observations and hypocritical assumptions. Learn logic.
Do you want my address so you can come beat me up?
<snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>
I'll wait till you aren't upset anymore. Do you have no self-control or self-awareness? You write all that stuff about Jesus and how you believe in doing good and then you write constant character judgements purely based on your faith. I can't help it you can't control your emotions. Maybe if you actually comprehended anything I have written about logic, you would recognize it's importance. I'm sorry you limit yourself with your faithful assumptions. I still love you Marine. Thanks for marching.
I do what I can everyday, and I try to be better. I certainly don't claim to do or be anything more. but if I feel the need to tell someone like you to stick it, I don't get bent out of shape about it. You see oblivious one, of the two you're the one limited to logic and reason, you profess to limit your emotions and live controlled, so read your own posts for awhile. How can I be a hypocrite for going against anything I claim to be when all I claim to be is human and doing the best I can. Faith what the hell do you know about that word, my opinions are based on what I see and what you say.
I only limit my emotions in theoretical belief, not in family and personal interactions. You didn't bother to think about that, you just assumed what you wanted to believe. Being a human, you should know the difference in being arrogant and humble. I don't think it's very humble to make so many assumptions on someones character before asking them on a human level. I know a lot about faith. I have faith in a lot of things and people. Just because I don't show you my emotions doesn't mean I don't show them to other people. You see what you want to see.
The man who started a whole thread to mislead, and mock faith and you're going to talk to me about humble. Marine, you're just a mess man. Whatever you say man, whatever you say.
I apologized and learned from that. I also admitted that logic can be as blind as faith.
Apologies mean nothing when you go right back to the same behavior man, don't pull that card. You haven't changed. You insult me and degrade me then start in with your crap when I fling it back at you, you're so fake its not funny anymore.
lol, Where did I lose my mind and offer to physically fight you for anything you have written? Who is the confused one?
Now I've lost my mind by calling you on your BS. Keep talking marine that's all you are talk and BS.
Why are you so angry? I thought you believed in love and happiness? Didn't you call me the angry one?
that may be the best choice, as it is obvious to all of us that your dislike for one another is all your really talking about...
I agree with alot of what your saying.
I guess it really depends on what you call Christianity, is it the fancy church that has 1500 members and worries about the bottom line. Or is it a rescue mission that feeds the homeless man on a cold winter night.
In today's world it's very easy to say you are Christian, to go to church on Sunday, to put your money in the offering plate, and drop a few dollars in the red kettle for the Salvation Army.
But just as when Jesus walked the earth it is very hard to actually live a Christian life, there are so many more pitfalls and stumbling blocks in today's world that I actually believe that Jesus would be very proud of the true modern Christian.
Well said. The true modern Christian, that person doing what God intended us to do, with that I am completely agreeable. But what of the Organizations the churches themselves...both the Catholics and the Protestants?
as a Christian biker I'm going to have to plead the fifth, I have some very strong opinions of these organizations. I am just going to say that I believe I'm a Christian. In case you're interested here is a hub I wrote about the day I was born again. http://hubpages.com/hub/Saved-By-Giving-It-All-To-Jesus
I believe Jesus would be unhappy with most organized religions that claim to be Christian-based.
I am off to bed I will catch up on this thread in the morning...
I read a good article earlier 'Does Jesus and Conservative even belong in the same sentance?'
Jesus was a hippie, peace-loving, liberal, strange parabolic messages, anti-establishment - everything conservatives hate!
Then you have too few facts about the Word and the definition of conservative. And a few of those twisted, even.
Religion is destructive to conservatism.
Brenda, if he has his facts wrong, then state the facts he is missing. Don't leave it as a vague I'm right your wrong. How is he wrong, what exactly did he say that isn't true and why? What facts are twisted...how are they twisted?
1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
Hippies were all about change for the good, and as I was trying to convey conservatives don't own exclusive rights to the scriptures.. so don't tell me I have few facts, I can interpret how I want.
I believe the true Christian is the Good Samaritan, the kind soul who goes out of his or her way to help a fellow human being. I don't think that attending church matters. I don't believe reading the Bible matters. What's important is who we are, and how we live our lives. If there is a judgement day, I'm sure the recording angel will have been kept really busy recording all the sins of pride, avarice and selfishness that are being committed daily.
Lady if you follow that spirit with all your heart, you will find that the very same Spirit will confirm that you are in the kingdom of God.
You will also find that you will know things you've never learnt and speak of things you've never heard.
Plus the true nature of all religion including Christianity.
I believe that your correct in most of what you say. I'd like to clarify the "what matters" part though. I believe what your saying is that God will love us whether we go to church or not and whether we read the Bibles or not. I agree with that. I think however that there are people that don't have the strength to live without those crutches. So to me, for some people they matter a lot, but they aren't reasons or ways to get God to love us more, nor do they make "them" better people than others for going to church or reading the Bible.
Guys - chill! You're supposed to be "brothers in arms." Just agree to disagree on this issue. I'm sure you can find some common ground somewhere.
That's what my dad always said when my brother and I were fighting in the back seat. Years later, I found myself saying it to my own kids.
I see modern Christianity as the religion of convenience and status that it has become.If you read Only what Jesus said(keep in mind the distortions and meaning lost in translation over time)and measure modern Christians by it,most will fall far short of that life.I have had the good fortune of being mentored by a Real christian,the most amazing teacher I've had.He went back to the Beginning and studied the Bible and other writings of the time in Greek.His Christianity would be condemned today but it made perfect sense to me.I do not follow Christ but the insights he brought(if he even existed)were priceless,they even show through the shit that has been heaped on them,now that is a Hell of a guy.
Was that an oxymoron?
I think Jesus would have to forgive us like He's been doing for a long time.
ok I'll bite then what are you saying?
Sorry, I actually have nothing more to say. I can't actually answer the forum question. It's too much information for me to synthesize. I wish I could help though.
I admit I WAS playing. I was hoping to distract you all from trying to figure out something that is impossible to know. It didn't work, so goodbye.
...Impossible to know...Oh I got you, I should have phrased the question, "In your opinion, would Jesus be..."
I figured that was a given, since it was an open forum for public opinion? or am I wrong?
Either way, don't need to answer. Any response was going to be subjective interpretations by people's view and belief and/or faith. So, I don't see anything wrong with how you worded anything.
Interesting how that works.
Umm...wow your hub is intense, I don't know if you've read mine or not. If you haven't this statement probably won't make sense to you, but I'm going to say it anyway. Your seasoning, is one of very profound differences, big ups and big downs, not very much of the middle ground. Your life painful though it has been, is an interesting one. I hope you take some pride in having "lived" life. I wish you luck in your recovery.
Cool, thanks. In my opinion, Jesus is proud of some things Christians do and ashamed of some things Christians do. That being said, modern Christianity is made up of many of these Christians. So maybe He is both proud and ashamed at the same time. And like I said before, He has to forgive like He's been doing for a long time. That's my best guess.
Christ would hate his Christians, as would Mohammad hate his muslims for they had brought much much misery into this world and to many many people for their own interests and not what holy books preach!
I think I agree with you, Hate might be a little strong, perhaps hating their actions... but I get your point, I too think Jesus and Muhammed would be disappointed.
I think Jesus would say modern Christians are all hypocrites and sinners.
As far as the politics are involved? It's all subjective to an individual's own perspective and belief. Labels don't suit everyone.
Evidence or none, it makes believers believe something they heard from someone else which means it's a hear/say and Santa is a story as well.
Regardless of what many people claim, there are very few christians today. NO! I do not think Jesus would be content with modern Christianity. I can quote scripture if you like, but won't unless I'm asked.
LOL, No thanks I think there is entirely to much scripture quoting(Bible thumping) already. I think people have lost sight of the fact that the "scriptures" were written by cavemen(primitive peoples). Yes holy God inspired cavemen, but cavemen none the less.
Cavemen with a hidden agenda apparently.
And when he [Jesus] was alone, those present along with the Twelve questioned him about the parables. He answered them, "The mystery of the kingdom of God has been granted to you. But to those outside everything comes in parables, so that 'they may look and see but not perceive, and hear and listen but not understand, in order that they may not be converted and be forgiven.'" (Mark 4:10-12 NAB)
Only those in the club get saved you know!
Yes only those in the "club" get saved, but earnest you can be in the club all you have to do is ask Jesus in to your heart, believe he is Lord and Saviour and you will be a member... Your sins will be forgiven....
But since you quoted the Bible so well, you already know this, now I have a simple question for you, can you show me another way to be saved or do you just not perceive the Bible as you quoted it?
Only if the people "in the club" are the people that decide that, which they most decidedly ARE NOT.
Well their scriptures and their god have told them they are right, all others go to hell apparently.
Down where? Australia? It's summer here. We have our festive season mostly outdoors and the flies are hell!
I am from South Carolina, it gets hot as hell here as well. It's almost like swimming through a lake of fire in the summer.
Wow, I have not been through there in a while! It is hotter there than here. I remember stepping out of the car to be almost reduced to ash!
A bit like the Australian deserts.
Ah, I heard they had jumping devils in Australia that carry demons in their stomachs that go by the name of "Kangaroo's". This is pretty disturbing. I will stay in my hotter than hell bible belt state.
You got that right! Roos everywhere over here!
The old bucks in the bush are bloody dangerous too!
lol @ bucks in the bush. Are they really dangerous? I did see one on tv attack a guy one time. I want to tackle one of them.
I understand that, that is what they believe, it is what they have been taught. In that way their "teachers" stay in power. I know you know this, I know your bitter about it. I admire you for not giving up.
The teachers of today, just as the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes, since the law began, have striven to keep power. Thus the faithful -even the elect- have fallen into the mire, by convincing them that the power was in a book.
I have witnessed this and was almost duped as well.
The author of life never quoted himself, nor did his followers have the KJV, NIV or some other "V" under their arm when their shadows healed a cripple, when their voices caused the liars to fall down dead, when their sweat traveled a thousand miles, on a nasty ole' handkerchief mind you, to heal a cold.
The day is coming when the sheep will wake up.
Heaven help the temples and the teachers.
Ok so I took the time to read your hub, and I am going to say I disagree with your beliefs, but I also understand you disagree with mine which you know and say you have expeirenced...
But there is no need to argue over beliefs, as a bible thumping loony I will pray for you to return to the group that you claimed to have belong to at one point...
these points were not stated to argue but to show you that I did go look up your hub and took the time to read it...
I can sit here and "THUMP" you til am blue in the face with the Bible but in the end all I will have accomplished was to drive you further from God...
Look you have read the Bible twice, so you know the word of God, but as humans we must choose our path, we have choosen different beliefs thats all, I dont think you need to be wiped from the face of the earth over it, but I will continue to pray that the "seed" that was planted in your heart while reading the Bible twice will sprout with deep roots and change your harden heart....
I guess in the end what am saying is I have my beliefs, am keeping them, you have yours and as far as I can tell you will keep them, so I would break bread with you in real life as long as religion was the topic of discussion over dinner...
I think the kind of modern Christianity that gets the most press is very disturbing and far, far from anything resembling the teachings of Jesus. If you go by the tone of the discussions here, you'd think that Jesus spent most of his time talking about how gays are evil, Democrats are Nazis, and abortion is murder--yet the Gospels show Jesus having nothing to say about these things. Evangelical Christianity has become so political and harsh it should not retain the name 'Christianity'. It disgraces Christianity.
Another trend I find disgusting is the new 'prosperity gospel' as taught by people like Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Hagin, D.R. McConnell and others. If you want a new car, fine, but God isn't about getting you a new car. Give me a break.
These mega-churches are popping up all over suburban America, but it seems to me their message is more about capitalism and narcissism and sometimes their own prejudices than anything else.
As to worshipping Jesus instead of God, most people would recognize either one if they cut in line in front of Him at the supermarket.
I do not think that Jesus would be proud of those that are supposed to be teaching HIS message. But what do I know for after all this too was prophesied 1900 years ago from the Isle of Patmos
I don't think Jesus has "pride" for he came here and gave up all for us.
I do believe we will be judged. I don't think we'll be able to defend ourselves with words like we do on these forums. He will count how much opportunity we had to be a good samaritan against how many times were actually did it. He will see how much we gave of our money compared to what we had, not how much we felt we could give. He will ask what we did with the talents he gave us, etc. I believe the parables will be the measure.
I believe He has saved us, but that there will be an accounting of our lives.
Just my humble opinion. Holly
Modern religion has little to do with christianity, also my opinion.
Holly, well stated, Jesus most certainly has no pride in him
Your answer kind of turns my question off course. Your answer makes it about whether Jesus was "prideful" or not. But your final statement does answer the original query, you said, "Modern religion has little to do with christianity, also my opinion." If I am understanding you correctly, by that you mean that what Christianity has become is not what Jesus intended it to be.
Cavemen with a hidden agenda apparently.
And when he [Jesus] was alone, those present along with the Twelve questioned him about the parables. He answered them, "The mystery of the kingdom of God has been granted to you. But to those outside everything comes in parables, so that 'they may look and see but not perceive, and hear and listen but not understand, in order that they may not be converted and be forgiven.'" (Mark 4:10-12 NAB)
Only those in the club get saved you know!
I think that Jesus spoke in parables in order to see how quickly his appostles were catching on to what he was saying.
But from what Jesus actually said I think that he wasn't wanting to teach the wolves how to look and act like chickens.
in a word: No.
in a statement:
it is unfortunate that today's society of believers have dwindled down their ability to do what they we given power to do, that is to reign as kings and priests here and now. Instead, they have been blinded by religions -as were the first century believers- they have confirmed into the Roman idolatry, Greek mythology, chose to kneel before gods of paper and numbers -allowing a shadow to pass between them and God. They have CHOSEN LAW OVER GRACE.
well their scriptures and their god have told them they are right, all others go to hell apparently.
I don't know about the going to hell part but..
If God rode by in a wagon and invited ya to hop in and go to the old swimming hole with him, If ya don't get in the wagon you aint goin swimming.
Some say that to be absent from the presence of God is hell.
ME I know nothing... except I'm goin swimming.
PERFECTLY STATED. Someone gets it!
It's not Him 'sending' anyone, it's them not allowing themselves!
The Trinity lives in your soul once you accept it - Your choice - pre-determined before you existed - Not a preacher - just a believer
A hell of a lot of Christians disagree with that -- come on all, gloves off...
ahem, hence the title: christians. A title 'bestowed' upon 'believers' by hedonists, priests of the law and roman citizens.
its ok though, we still love them bible toting, temple building, preacher watching, christians too. jeje
gloves off ;P
I think thats the "illusion" of religion when it's only goal is to control through conscience.
Since the day that The Snake tempted Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit... Satan has been building an illusion of REOIGION that the children of God has been nibbling on ever since. And we are ALL still chewing upon the bones.
We need to wake up people.
Indeed. Just not the way most people need to 'wake-up'.
The reality is this: Satan as you refer to it, was defeated at the cross. In Revelation he is depicted as a beast with a wound. That wound was a strike by the law given to man. He is later destroyed along with the two who war against Christ, which is sin & death.
I am not a book quoter, but for the record:
it was written: "It is finished".
This is the reality people need to wake to: start living by Grace.
NO NO NO that is not what is written!! Jesus died on the cross. Then when he entered heaven as the Lamb of God, He took the book and began opening the seals.
And then around 138 BC the seventh seal was opened.
Satan wan't wipped yet!!! After the six trumpets was sounded he was bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years but he wasn't wipped yet. Then the vial judgments began being poured out while satan was bound. Then He was released out of the pit...... He has now almost got everything in place for the last trumpet to be sounded and the last vial to be poured out.
How does that fit into your figurin
friend. i am not here to argue books and letters.
however the prophecy has been fulfilled.
the ministers of today have misread and taught that letter.
the book opens with what?
This is the Revelation of The end times? No, indeed not.
"This is the Revealing of Y'shua Moshiach"
In translation you note 3 keys.
Reveal -that is rhema
Y'shua -that is imrah
Moshiach -that is logos
thus the fullness of the Word which has filled all in all.
the items in the letter define those things which are of the Spirit NOT of the flesh.
For if the work was not finished at the cross, than the curse of the law is still upon man. Yet we know that is not the case. The curse AND ALL ITS PARTS have been removed.
All things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.
The kingdom of g-d is now within us.
We are not under law, but grace. For the law demands payment and judgment for sin. That is sin & that is death.
You Clearly have done your Home work!
You are a credit to the Few real Christians who are the Life blood of your religion.
Please never stop.People like you should speak up more often!
The middle ground between believers and atheists appears to be Intelligent design.
Science may yet discover God.
"When scientists reach the top of the mountain of knowledge they will find theologians have been waiting for centuries"
ps, it was written: John 19:30
john -same guy who was given the Revealing Truth.
What do you mean when you refer to modern? Why would it change if it's a religion?
I could be wrond ?? But I beliefe that Jesus dying upon the Cross was fulfillment to OT prophesy concerning the Messiah. When the children of Daniels people was scattered throught the known world (136 BC) LUKE 21:24 ... And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations, and Jerusalem shall be troden down unil the times of the GENTILES be fulfilled. HAY !!!! the times of the gentiles began when the Hebrew Nation ceased to exist around 138 AD. Re think it !? please.
H is not a respecter of persons, yes?
the purpose, from the foundation of the world was what?
That ALL men be saved (from sin & death) and come to the knowledge of the Truth (that is we are made in His image/likeness; to be as He is). This is the Will. To state anything other says He is partial and chooses whom He loves.
To Him there is no old testament or new testament.
He IS the Testament AND the Testimony.
He IS the Will.
He IS Himself.
There IS no shadow of turning in Him, yes?
Let me ask you this also: have the Gentiles been grafted in? Or are they waiting.
When did that occur? Cornelius a gentile, yet received the Spirit? And in the book of Revealings, what is the outer court for? It reserved for the Gentiles, yes? So then, it is fulfilled that those who never knew the law received the gift of grace...
For precisely at the end of that passage, what is seen, but the ark of the covenant, the battle between Michael & Satan, where he is cast to earth with his angels. Has this event occurred? Indeed.
Probably not but, he probably like the liberal atheists commies even less.
Don't let anything that I say do anything but give you something else to examine for I do not want to push my beliefs upon anyone. I only ask that we look in all directions before we run fast forward. "I" believe that the OT prophesy concerning the Messiah was fulfilled when he died and rose again. Jesus then prophesied in a private "conversation" with Peter, James, John and andrew of things that "when "YEA" shall see.." Those things are past as Jesus said that they shall be fulfilled: "This generation shall not pass till... BUT... no one known the hour or day".
False religion has been teaching a lie that scripture afirms to. Scripture says that HE is going to tell a lie and that YOU are going to believe it.
What ya think?
first, ALL religion is false. to say there is a 'false religion' is ironic, don't you think? The lie is this: "that you need to be saved through the works of labor and law. Even through the law to perform mighty works, even calling fire down from heaven.
Who appeared with Him on the mountain? his two witnesses, yes? Moses the law keeper and Elijah the prophet -who himself called fire from heaven and destroyed the alter of Baal.
What you seek? to see the 'return' of Him who is at the highest place, with a name above all names? That He should come down to you? That you should be lifted up with Him who is already lifted up?
The lie is that you need to be saved or that He is coming to save you -yet again. Yet the work of the Cross is finished, therefore all men are saved by that Grace, through His Faith and their own. All men are made new. All are born again.
He has done that by His own desire and effort.
Now men must decide which is greater: the gift of eternal life or the chains of eternal death.
sin & death have no power over you, for you are not under the law but are in Grace. In fact, GREAT grace!
Christianity teaches that the Christ and God (Father) are one and there is no difference. So there is no question of "who is most important, God or Christ"
Of course he would NOT be proud. Cmon! The church is the church whatever name you give it. Jesus did not like the church.
If you want my honest opinion. I think God will create a new creature that is very large, that will come along and take a big dump on today's religeous institutions.
Go back 200 years in America, and see how many views the church has changed to conform and modernize itself. And research how many past causes it has been a champion of, and how fast it dropped pushing it, because it was no longer to their advantage.
The persecution of witches, adulterers, racial oppression, being pro slavery, then suddenly soming out against it because they knew it was going to end. And, in recent years, going after homosexuals, and women who want to get orbortions. While trying to claim they are tolerant.
I wonder how many "white only" churches there were.
God might be mildly impressed with some of the changes, but, when he (or she) sees that it is only to keep up appearances, and the hatred of various groups of people continues, using the bible as an excuse to justify their hatred. I Think he will more likely be disapointed...and not return.
I think he would not be happy at all. Jesus teached about love. Even among a people Who call theirselves as christians, is not love. That is what I see these days.
Many people calling for God or Jesus only when they need something. Christianity should be a way of life, not just a quick jump to church on a sunday.
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