Can a Person Be a Good Christian and a Trump Supporter?

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  1. crankalicious profile image91
    crankaliciousposted 5 weeks ago

    This question was raised in another forum.

    I said that I did not think a person could be a good Christian and a Trump supporter, but naturally somebody disagreed.

    However, I would love to learn more, so if you believe you are somebody who adheres to the Bible, the word of Jesus Christ, and is generally a good Christian who supports Donald Trump, please explain how these two things co-exist.

    I regard this as an important learning opportunity.

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      I find this question a bit too focused on Christians.

      Are you implying supporting President Donald Trump is not an issue for Muslims, Jews, Hindus or other types  people of faith?

      So, why is it that who a Christian supports in the politial world is contradictory to their faith but not with other faiths?

      What are you implying?  That a Christian is less of a Christian based on who they support in the political world?

      Why don't you ask this question of other faiths?

      I'm wondering if it is your lack of understanding of Christianity or a lack of knowledge of other faiths.

      Notice I didn't use the word "ignorance."

      1. crankalicious profile image91
        crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Being that Christianity is the dominant religion of the United States, I merely asked it assuming it applied to a wider swath of people. But yes, it probably applies to those of many religions depending on the values it holds.

        I am also asking how faith in Jesus Christ informs one's voting choices.

        1. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Let me ask you why?  Why can't a person be a good Christian and support President Donald Trump? Why would you think such a thing.

          1. crankalicious profile image91
            crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Well, in a nutshell, Christianity provides a set of guidelines for living a life worthy of entering heaven that he doesn't follow. That said. I'm interested in an explanation reconciling one's Christian faith with support of Trump. Or are the two unrelated? If Christianity informs one's view of the world and how one conducts one's life, how does that translate into supporting one candidate or another? It doesn't even have to be Donald Trump.

      2. PhoenixV profile image60
        PhoenixVposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Atheists always hold Christians to a higher standard. I guess in their hearts of hearts, they know its right. And by heart, I mean that figuratively, because sometimes atheists have difficulty with metaphors.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          You wanna hear somethingnfunny? When I was in high scool, I was nominated to receive the "Miss Reverence" award. I was deemed to most exemplify the Christian values of kindness, charity, devotion, and humility (I might not have the specific criteria right as that was a long time ago, but you get the idea).   Unbeknownst to those who nominated me, I was an atheist.

          Funny, huh?

          1. MizBejabbers profile image89
            MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Not really funny. My father was one of the most honorable men I know. He was a professing atheist. I wrote a hub on this a few years ago.

        2. crankalicious profile image91
          crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          I think Atheists hold Christians to the standards that Christians set for everyone else.

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            How can an atheist have any standards?  What would it be based on?  The feeling of the day?

            I find your statement very funny and without any sense of reality.

            1. crankalicious profile image91
              crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              The mere concept that an Atheist cannot have standards and that there's no such thing as human decency without the Bible is not worth discussing nor is it the subject of this forum.

            2. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Ethics are standards not necessarily associated with religion. A atheist can operate ethically or work within the confines of the law. The adherence could be based simply on not running afoul of the law

              We have a planet in distress, which of the thousands of religions out there has changed anything?

              While I subscribe to the Christian faith, all I see far too often are double standards and hypocrisy.

              1. crankalicious profile image91
                crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Most Atheists I know have incredibly high standards, on par or exceeding religious people I know.

                Religion is not a determinate of standards, but is usually cited by religious people as what forms their standards.

              2. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                The ethical standards of western culture are all derived from Judaism.  These standards influence law, societal behaviors and beliefs held in most cultures. 

                If an atheist has any ethical standards, they have been learned from Judaism.  It is the Bible's old testament.  The Muslim Koran has many references to Jews and Judaism.  Judaism has been around for 3,000 years, Christianity 2,000 years and the Muslim faith for 1,000 years.

                "While I subscribe to the Christian faith, all I see far too often are double standards and hypocrisy."

                I have people tell me this all the time.  My response is "Why are you the least bit surprised?"

                These are things that happened during the time Jesus walked this earth.  This is not a reflection of Christianity.  It is a reflection of people.

                We have all been given free will.  This means people can choose to follow the teachings of Jesus or be tricked by the devil.  I believe the devil is everywhere, tempting all of us at all times.  The devil loves nothing more than ruining the life a a believer or tricking them into making a mockery of Christianity. 

                There will always be people who give into temptation.  It is the way of the world where we live.

                1. crankalicious profile image91
                  crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  I don't disagree with how ethical standards evolved, but I don't believe religion is required to develop ethics. Ethics are independent of religion. There were ethical standards prior to Judaism.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image95
                    Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Really?  Please share with me the ethical standards of over 3,000 years ago.

                2. Credence2 profile image80
                  Credence2posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  While I cannot claim to be an expert of the world's religions, do you not think the concept of ethics can be found among Hindus or practicers of Shinto, for example? Ethics may not be something solely derived from Judeo-Christianity.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image95
                    Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Credence,

                    You are absolutely correct.

                    What is ethical in the Hindu religion does not apply to everyone.  They believe cows are holy. You and I would not see things this way.  In the Muslim religion, if you tell a lie to benefit Islam, you've done a good thing.  That is very different from Christians and Jews.

                    My point is Judaism is the basis for the ethics of western culture. Christianity evolved from Judaism, but is still very different.

                    So, ethical behavior is very different depending on where you are around the world.

            3. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Mike, the basic rules of the so called 10 commandments were around long before Christianity existed. Without such rules there could never be towns and cities or other formal business between individuals. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

              In fact, some of the commandments are redundant. Five would have sufficed some claim.

              1. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Ah, Randy, I like your attempt appearing knowledgeable.    The ten commandments are found in the books of Exodus in the Bible's old testament.  Yes, they were around before Christianity.  They were in the Jewish holy book known as the Torah.  The old testament is from the Jewish Torah. Judaism was around over 1,000 years before the coming of Jesus Christ.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  But man has lived in groups for tens of thousands of years Mike, without Christianity I might add. Xtians have no claim on the original rules for primitive man, no matter how much you want them too.

                  You seem to be ignorant of ancient history, or do you believe like some in your cult the world is only around 7'000 years old?

    2. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Can a Person Be a Good Christian and a Trump Supporter?

      Your question implies that it's your opinion, President Trump, in some respect is a person that should or would not be considered to be worthy of support. You perhaps needed to be more specific in why you feel a Christian would have a problem giving their support to the President.

      To answer your question in simple terms. A true Christian strives to see the good in all. We are taught as Christians not to set ourselves above others or judge others. We are taught to look for the good in people and forgive the bad. We try to promote good examples and hope those around us will learn from our examples.

      My answer should provide a simple explanation of why Christians can and do support President Trump.

      As a Christian and speaking only for myself.  I feel it is ill-advised to judge others so harshly unless you are willing to be judged for your every word and deed.

      1. crankalicious profile image91
        crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        In a nutshell, Christianity and other religions provide a guide about how to be a good person and generally, as most people do, religious or not, we use those rules to establish how we live our lives and how we judge others and/or establish the kinds of people we trust, like, love; etc. That's just natural. The Bible teaches us how to be good and people use it to establish right and wrong.

        I'm merely asking how Trump is worthy of a Christian's support.

        1. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          One of the basic tenants in the teaching of Jesus Christ is forgiveness of sins.  We are all sinners and dead to sin.  Me, you and everyone on the planet. 

          Romans 3:10 states "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one"

          So, President Donald Trump is no different from me or you or another person.  He has sinned like all of us.

          Now, President Donald Trump has attended services since he has been president and asked for forgiveness of his sins. 

          So, John 3:6 states "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

          Once you ask for forgiveness of your sins, you will have a new spirit. You will be a new person.  You will be born again.

          John 3;8 says  "The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

          Now, if President Donald Trump has confessed his sins he is a new person, not of the flesh but of the spirit.

          Do we know he has a new spirit?  It is not for us to judge. 

          Matthew 7: 1&2 says Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

          One of the parables of Jesus tells how people were about to stone a adulteress to death.  Jesus in John 7 said "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

          So, can I judge President Donald Trump for his past transgressions?  No, that is between him and God.  It is not for me to judge.

          So, this is a short and sweet version.  Trust me, I could go on for many paragraphs.

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            I am much more interested in people who walk the talk, those whose morality, behavior and actions are consistent with what he or she confesses to believe.

            Let your good example be as a shining lamp for others.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              I agree with this, although it can be quite difficult to find out exactly what is believed.  All too often it amounts to "I believe in whatever I can get away with". sad

          2. tsadjatko profile image58
            tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Well said Mike. You might add supporting a person because of his policies which represent your views on policies has nothing to do necessarily with his religion or yours. Because a Christian supports any political candidate doesn’t mean they support what could be construed as unchristian behavior especially when the only alternative is to support his opposition which in this case is a candidate of an anti Christian Democratic Party pushing lunatic socialist agendas.

            1. Readmikenow profile image95
              Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              I agree. I think religion is much more free under President Donald Trump than under obama.  It is more free for all religions.  When they try to make a case that President Donald Trump is an anti-Semite, it is comical.

              "Because a Christian supports any political candidate doesn’t mean they support what could be construed as unchristian behavior "

              We're back to Mathew 7: 1&2 about not judging.  I've never met or seen a liberal who was so perfect and so pristine they could actually judge the personal behavior of another. 

              Again back to Romans 3:10 there are none righteous, no, not one.

              I wonder if the liberals can now understand why Christians can support President Donald Trump.  I have a feeling they don't.

              1. tsadjatko profile image58
                tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Maybe this gives you an idea why they don’t

                https://youtu.be/4GADNMseDsk

                And then there is this:

                https://stream.org/democratic-party-res … istianity/

                I can go on.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image74
                Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Obama was more open to all religions. Where Trump makes it clear to Christianity, there is only one God and his name is Jealous. Bombing and banning Muslims makes that clear and Americans love nationalism record debt to pay for it. 

                Non believers have no say at all in US administration. A guy like me who has harmed nobody in his lifetime won't get to Yahweh heaven, yet Trumps built a super hiway for billionaire to get to heaven. 

                Of course most American Christians are extremely one-sided like Trump. The good news is, US non believers have increased double in the last 10 years. It gives me more faith in the ethics and honesty of the American people.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image83
          Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Can a Person Be a Good Christian and a Trump Supporter? You are now asking an entirely different question. "how Trump is worthy of a Christian's support."

          In your original question, you are asking can one be a Christian and still support Trump. A person that you clearly feel has faults that are irredeemable.   I provide Christian attributes of why a Christian would or could support Trump withall his faults. I felt I was very clear. 

          Your question in regards to is Trump worthy of Christain support? You are asking me to judge a man and see him as beyond redeemable.  I must give you the same answer.  Christians do have what you called a guide, we call them morals, values, the belief we try to live by.

          So, once again to best answer why Trump is worthy of support --- As a Christian, I strive to see the good in everyone.  I see a president that has done some very good things for the country. And yes he can be very ill-spoken and make mistakes.  I do not put myself above others or judge others as "being worthy".  I look for the good in people and try to forgive the bad.   I try to promote good examples and hope those around me will learn from my examples.

          I would guess you are looking for pros and cons in regard to Trump's personality traits and his deeds. I am not willing to make these lists. I will say there would be pros and cons.  As there would be on any human being under scrutiny.

    3. MizBejabbers profile image89
      MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Credence, I see you've drawn some criticism from your question that was aimed at Christians, but I think it was right on target. I grew up in a Southern Baptist Church in the 1950s. This was during the Cold War and a lot of emphasis in churches was put on the anti-Christ. We were warned that the anti-Christ and his followers would hide under the cloak of Christianity, so we should beware. They also did not say that this leader was necessarily a religious leader but he would claim to save us from ruin. It is no surprise to me that Christians flock to this man whom they believe to be America's savior because apparently the church is not teaching that anymore.
      But just today Putin announced a new plan that will strengthen his power in Russia and keep him in power when he is term-limited out in 2024. At the same time it is being reported that the Russians are still meddling in our elections. Trump is still slobbering over Putin in his bromance with the dictator. So figure it out, the Trump supporters certainly can't, Christian or not.

    4. aguasilver profile image67
      aguasilverposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      If somebody is a messianic believer and if they call Jesus their Messiah, then that's what they are, messianic believers, not Christians (a derogatory term applied to them by Rome, before they hijacked the religion)... anyhow, I digress... if you know scripture, it's apparent that we are in a period when God is fulfilling some more of his prophetic statements, and Trump is a part of that, possibly having been 'trained' by God for his whole life for 'such a time as this'.

      So (as a messianic believer) I recognize that I should NOT try to interfere in Gods plan, I don't support what the globalists seek to achieve, so I do not endorse or contribute to their plans, however it is written that they will succeed in their plan for world domination by a one world government, so to try to stop them actively would possibly interfere with Gods plan, and also as a believer I desire that Gods plan is fulfilled as soon as possible, because what happens after the NWO take over is more exciting....

      President Trump, who has professed his Christian 'faith' since he was elected, is an essential part of Gods plan (IMO) and as God has done many times before, God is using an imperfect person to carry out His will.

      So.... a 'Christian', possibly entrapped in religious fervor, could try to judge the POTUS and condemn him, but a believer who understand God words and plans, will understand also that we have NO RIGHT to judge anyone except ourselves...

      Blessings.

      1. MizBejabbers profile image89
        MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Some people who espouse the NWO are also Messianic. They declare that the messiah cannot return as long as the world is full of feuding tribal societies (countries). They say that there must be one global world order for the messiah to step into, and he (it) won't return until that is fulfilled. I believe that is in keeping with your explanation of "God's Plan" and the NWO.

        1. aguasilver profile image67
          aguasilverposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Of course, and that is also written:

          Matthew 24:24

          For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

          So pick your 'Messiah' and take your chances on being right.

          I served the enemy for 40 years before he lost me to Yeshua Ha-Mashiach, so I do know both sides of the fence and came off that fence nearly 30 years ago....

          Revelation Chapter 13 16-17

          And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

          And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

          I know who I serve and am known by whom I serve.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            I've never met a real Xtian. Just those falsely claiming to be one. Bar none...

            1. aguasilver profile image67
              aguasilverposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              If you've never met one.... what would someone actually need be like, for you to consider them Xtian?

              Just curious

              BTW I'm not a Xtian, Christian or religious! cool

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Unlike all of the self professed Xtians I've ever met. But then, I've never met an honest preacher either.

                1. aguasilver profile image67
                  aguasilverposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Sort of agree Randy, retrospectively I realise that MOST preachers know they are not telling the WHOLE truth, and when you do tell the whole truth, the 'congregation' goes where they can hear a more comfortable 'truth' they can accept.

                  People are generally afraid of the truth

                  1. cam8510 profile image93
                    cam8510posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    I'll jump in on this. I was a Christian all my life until I recanted thirteen  years ago. During my "Christian" life, I was a child Christian, layman, Bible college student, missionary, and pastor for fifty years. While pastoring, I began having questions in the back of my mind about the veracity of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. It took  me a couple of years to finally ditch the entire thing as some bad history cloaked in some accurate history and myth in some vague truths. I have no time or patience for this drivel now. Life is too short to waste it on the deceitfulness of men long dead. Does that make me an atheist? I won't even say. Judge me if you dare.

            2. Live to Learn profile image81
              Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Oh Randy. There is so much wrong with this statement.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Then enlighten me, LTL.

                1. Live to Learn profile image81
                  Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Randy, I just don't think any of us are truly 'good'. We are all flawed in some way or another. We all attempt to present reasons our flaws aren't flaws, or at least aren't our fault.

                  Anyone who doesn't second guess themselves, honestly evaluate, kick themselves in the head for their transgressions, vow to do better; is a person not interested in personal growth.

                  But, let's be honest. We all do that in our heads and rarely publicly. You can't crawl up into someone else's head and determine their struggles. You can't know their beliefs. Saying you've never met a true Christian is saying you don't know any Christians. I think, what you mean is that you've never met Christ because you expect perfection.

                  I've met a lot of Christians I consider to be totally off base in their beliefs. I think those beliefs stray very far away from the teachings of Christ. That doesn't make them not Christian.  Any more than their disdain for my beliefs make me not a Christian.

                  And, honestly? It seems weird to me to have someone who may not be a believer condemning people as not Christian. It's the same as telling someone they aren't a Democrat simply because their ideas don't mirror your own.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image74
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    The last christain died on the cross, the rest are impersonators.

  2. Live to Learn profile image81
    Live to Learnposted 5 weeks ago

    I'm not a card carrying member of any church. I try to follow the teaching of the Bible but I would think anyone who does understands that the use of the term 'good' is not synonymous with humans. You do the best you can.

    I support Trump and, to be perfectly honest, I find your question hilarious. There is to be a wall of separation between church and state. That's across the board. Anyone who votes for a politician because of a religion sets themselves up for disappointment.

    And any who judge a person by the religion they espouse and the candidate they support is ignoring the wall also.

  3. PhoenixV profile image60
    PhoenixVposted 5 weeks ago

    All I know is that between the hildabeast and The Chosen One, Trump is definitely the lesser evil.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image83
      PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Was he the lesser of ev ils among the fifteen or more other GOP candidates, too? Republicans chose him above all others.

      1. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        You forget most of us are independents who lean Republican or Democrat. We don't pick the candidates. If you are a Democrat you helped pick one of them.

        Do better this time.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Oh my, you do get testy about your vote for Trump, don't you?

          I hope my fellow Democrat primary voters will do better this time, though that really has nothing to do with my comment to Phoenix.

          By the way, some states have open primaries.

          1. Live to Learn profile image81
            Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Are you suggesting I move in order to live in a state with an open primary?

            Weird.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image83
              PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              No, I'm suggesting your implication that independents had no influence in the primaries is wrong.

    2. Live to Learn profile image81
      Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Exactly. And that is one fact democrats can't understand.

  4. abwilliams profile image55
    abwilliamsposted 5 weeks ago

    I had on my serious face until I read Phoenix's comment. I've composed myself and will now try this again.

    In a nutshell; a Christian acknowledges they are imperfect and with and through Christ, they work to become less imperfect.

    That being said, I voted for Trump last go round, hoping he would handle the pressure and stay focused on doing the work of the people. This time I will vote for him, knowing that he will.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image83
      PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Glad to hear you take responsibility for your vote. Some still blame Hillary,as though she followed them into the booth with a gun to their heads forcing them to vote for Trump.

      1. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Lol. If I had decided not to vote for either that would have helped Hillary.  Better vote for the possible devil you don't know than the devil you do.

        Again, if you want a different outcome get your party to put someone up who can get elected.

        Here are some tips.

        Don't nominate the guy whose family uses his position for personal gain.

        Don't nominate a woman who thinks lies and personal attacks on decent people will go unpunished.

        Don't nominate a guy whose campaign workers want any who disagree with them put in gulags.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          You seem to think I have some magical powers over Democratic primary voters. I'm flattered but sorry to burst your bubble. I can't even make my husband vote for who I like much less anyone else.

        2. MizBejabbers profile image89
          MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Your whole description sounds like Trump to me. Were you serious or being sarcastic?

  5. PhoenixV profile image60
    PhoenixVposted 5 weeks ago

    https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/joe-then-i-said-hillary-now-you-have-something-else-in-common-you-blew-it-obama-you-know-she-kills-people-right.jpg

    1. MizBejabbers profile image89
      MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      That is too ignorant to deserve a decent comment.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image83
        PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        The Russian propagandists know the comprehension level of their audience but, more accurately, they have done their research and know precisely what lights up their audience's oversized amygdalas.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        As I said, simply consider the source, Miz.

        1. MizBejabbers profile image89
          MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          lol

  6. PrettyPanther profile image83
    PrettyPantherposted 5 weeks ago

    I find it interesting that many  Christians (or maybe most?) Are surprised by this question.

    Do they believe Trump's behavior and policies reflect their personal values? Or, is it because they don't care if his behavior and policies reflect their personal values?

  7. Onusonus profile image76
    Onusonusposted 5 weeks ago

    https://i.imgflip.com/3ivwed.jpg

  8. Castlepaloma profile image74
    Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks ago

    There are two things christainity and Trump have most in common.

    They are both good hypocrites.

    1. crankalicious profile image91
      crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      John 8:44

      You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

      Peter 5:8-9

      Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image74
        Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        I can't accept advice or vice from people who base their lives on ancient fears, who average age can't manage to live pass age 30 with sheep herder guild to the universe.

        My second home Santa Familia I will take advice from these people because their adverage life expectancy is age 92 and my friend at 107 is my hero. Your heros lived in ignorance hard times.

        More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason. So excuse me if I mix up your Satan and God all the time, I give you back your gift of Satan to me, to its rightful owner.

  9. PhoenixV profile image60
    PhoenixVposted 5 weeks ago

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

  10. emge profile image76
    emgeposted 5 weeks ago

    Frankly, politics and religion should not go together. It does not happen that way and Christianity though a personal belief superimposes into politics and the president. I don't think Obama did anything to curtail or suppress religion, though one can surmise that Trump playing to the extreme right-wing may be egging Christians forward.

    1. hard sun profile image91
      hard sunposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Bingo..as consistent with our Constitution and confirmed by our courts: “the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between Church and State.’”

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Are you serious?  obama was one of the most anti religious freedom presidents in the history of the United States.  Sure, it didn't hit the main stream media, but who would be surprised by this?

        Here are a few things obama didn

        December 2009-Present – The annual White House Christmas cards, rather than focusing on Christmas or faith, instead highlight things such as the family dogs. And the White House Christmas tree ornaments include figures such as Mao Tse-Tung and a drag queen. [1]
        May 2016 – President Obama appoints a transgender to the Advisory Council on Faith-Based Neighborhood Partnerships — an act of overt disdain and hostility toward traditional faith religions. [2]
        September 2015 – For White House and State Department dinners, the president deliberately invites guests that he knows will be offensive to the Pope and who openly opposed his message, but he and the State Department very carefully avoid inviting guests that oppose or would offended the dictators of countries such as Cuba and China. [3]
        June 2013 – The Obama Department of Justice defunds a Young Marines chapter in Louisiana because their oath mentioned God, and another youth program because it permits a voluntary student-led prayer. [4]
        February 2013 – The Obama Administration announces that the rights of religious conscience for individuals will not be protected under the Affordable Care Act. [5]
        January 2013 – Pastor Louie Giglio is pressured to remove himself from praying at the inauguration after it is discovered he once preached a sermon supporting the Biblical definition of marriage.[6]
        February 2012 – The Obama administration forgives student loans in exchange for public service, but announces it will no longer forgive student loans if the public service is related to religion. [7]
        January 2012 – The Obama administration argues that the First Amendment provides no protection for churches and synagogues in hiring their pastors and rabbis. [8]
        December 2011 – The Obama administration denigrates other countries’ religious beliefs as an obstacle to radical homosexual rights. [9]
        November 2011 – President Obama opposes inclusion of President Franklin Roosevelt’s famous D-Day Prayer in the WWII Memorial. [10]
        November 2011 – Unlike previous presidents, Obama studiously avoids any religious references in his Thanksgiving speech. [11]
        August 2011 – The Obama administration releases its new health care rules that override religious conscience protections for medical workers in the areas of abortion and contraception. [12]
        April 2011 – For the first time in American history, Obama urges passage of a non-discrimination law that does not contain hiring protections for religious groups, forcing religious organizations to hire according to federal mandates without regard to the dictates of their own faith, thus eliminating conscience protection in hiring. [13]
        February 2011 – Although he filled posts in the State Department, for more than two years Obama did not fill the post of religious freedom ambassador, an official that works against religious persecution across the world; he filled it only after heavy pressure from the public and from Congress. [14]
        January 2011 – After a federal law was passed to transfer a WWI Memorial in the Mojave Desert to private ownership, the U. S. Supreme Court ruled that the cross in the memorial could continue to stand, but the Obama administration refused to allow the land to be transferred as required by law, and refused to allow the cross to be re-erected as ordered by the Court. [15]
        November 2010 – Obama misquotes the National Motto, saying it is “E pluribus unum” rather than “In God We Trust” as established by federal law. [16]
        October 19, 2010 – Obama begins deliberately omitting the phrase about “the Creator” when quoting the Declaration of Independence – an omission he has made on no less than seven occasions. [17]
        May 2009 – Obama declines to host services for the National Prayer Day (a day established by federal law) at the White House. [18]
        April 2009 – When speaking at Georgetown University, Obama orders that a monogram symbolizing Jesus’ name be covered when he is making his speech. [19]
        April 2009 – In a deliberate act of disrespect, Obama nominated three pro-abortion ambassadors to the Vatican; of course, the pro-life Vatican rejected all three. [20]
        February 2009 – Obama announces plans to revoke conscience protection for health workers who refuse to participate in medical activities that go against their beliefs, and fully implements the plan in February 2011. [21]
        April 2008 – Obama speaks disrespectfully of Christians, saying they “cling to guns or religion” and have an “antipathy to people who aren’t like them.” [22]
        2. Acts of hostility from the Obama-led military toward people of Biblical faith:

        October 2016 – Obama threatens to veto a defense bill over religious protections contained in it.[23]
        June 2016 – A military prayer breakfast whose speaker was highly decorated Delta Force Lt. General Jerry Boykin (ret) was cancelled because Boykin was a traditional value Christian who has voiced his support for natural marriage and his opposition to Islamic extremism. (The atheist critic behind the cancellation had complained that Boykin as a “homophobic, Islamophobic, fundamentalist Christian extremist.”)[24]
        April 2016 – At the orders of a commander, a 33-year Air Force veteran was forcibly and physically removed by four other airmen because he attempted to use the word “God” in a retirement speech.[25]
        February 2016 – After a complaint was received, a Bible was removed from a display inside a Veterans Clinic.[26]
        March 2015 – A decorated Navy chaplain was prohibited from fulfilling his duty of comforting the family (or any member of the unit) after the loss of a sailor because it was feared that he would say something about faith and God. He was even banned from the base on the day of the sailor’s memorial service. [27]
        March 2015 – A highly decorated Navy SEAL chaplain was relieved of duty for providing counseling that contained religious views on things such as faith, marriage, and sexuality. [28]
        June 2014 – Official U. S. government personnel, both civilian and military, in Bahrain (a small Arabic nation near Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran) must wear clothing that facilitates the religious observance of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan. [29]
        March 2014 – Maxell Air Force Base suddenly bans Gideons from handing out Bibles to willing recruits, a practice that had been occurring for years previously. [30]
        December 2013 – A naval facility required that two nativity scenes — scenes depicting the event that caused Christmas to be declared a national federal holiday — be removed from the base dining hall and be confined to the base chapel, thus disallowing the open public acknowledgment of this national federal holiday. [30]
        December 2013 – An Air Force base that allowed various public displays ordered the removal of one simply because it contained religious content. [32]
        October 2013 – A counter-intelligence briefing at Fort Hood tells soldiers that evangelical Christians are a threat to Americans and that for a soldier to donate to such a group “was punishable under military regulations.” [33]
        October 2013 – Catholic priests hired to serve as military chaplains are prohibited from performing Mass services at base chapels during the government financial shutdown. When they offered to freely do Mass for soldiers, without regard to whether or not the chaplains were receiving pay, they are still denied permission to do so. [34]
        October 2013 – The Air Force Academy, in response to a complaint from Mikey Weinstein’s Military Religious Freedom Foundation, makes “so help me God” optional in cadets’ honor oath. [35]
        August 2013 – A Department of Defense military training manual teaches soldiers that people who talk about “individual liberties, states’ rights, and how to make the world a better place” are “extremists.” It also lists the Founding Fathers — those “colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule” — as examples of those involved in “extremist ideologies and movements.” [36]
        August 2013 – A Senior Master Sergeant was removed from his position and reassigned because he told his openly lesbian squadron commander that she should not punish a staff sergeant who expressed his views in favor of traditional marriage. [37]
        August 2013 – The military does not provide heterosexual couples specific paid leave to travel to a state just for the purpose of being married, but it did extend these benefits to homosexual couples who want to marry, thus giving them preferential treatment not available to heterosexuals. [38]
        August 2013 – The Air Force, in the midst of having launched a series of attacks against those expressing traditional religious or moral views, invited a drag queen group to perform at a base. [39]
        July 2013 – When an Air Force sergeant with years of military service questioned a same-sex marriage ceremony performed at the Air Force Academy’s chapel, he received a letter of reprimand telling him that if he disagreed, he needed to get out of the military. His current six-year reenlistment was then reduced to only one-year, with the notification that he “be prepared to retire at the end of this year.” [40]
        July 2013 – An Air Force chaplain who posted a website article on the importance of faith and the origin of the phrase “There are no atheists in foxholes” was officially ordered to remove his post because some were offended by the use of that famous World War II phrase.[41]
        June 2013 – The U. S. Air Force, in consultation with the Pentagon, removed an inspirational painting that for years has been hanging at Mountain Home Air Force Base because its title was “Blessed Are The Peacemakers” — a phrase from Matthew 5:9 in the Bible. [42]
        June 2013 – The Obama administration “strongly objects” to a Defense Authorization amendment to protect the constitutionally-guaranteed religious rights of soldiers and chaplains, claiming that it would have an “adverse effect on good order, discipline, morale, and mission accomplishment.” [43]
        June 2013 – At a joint base in New Jersey, a video was made, based on a Super Bowl commercial, to honor First Sergeants. It stated: “On the eighth day, God looked down on His creation and said, ‘I need someone who will take care of the Airmen.’ So God created a First Sergeant.” Because the video mentioned the word “God,” the Air Force required that it be taken down. [44]
        June 2013 – An Army Master Sergeant is reprimanded, threatened with judicial action, and given a bad efficiency report, being told he was “no longer a team player,” because he voiced his support of traditional marriage at his own promotion party. [45]
        May 2013 – The Pentagon announces that “Air Force members are free to express their personal religious beliefs as long as it does not make others uncomfortable. “Proselytizing (inducing someone to convert to one’s faith) goes over that line,” [46] affirming if a sharing of faith makes someone feel uncomfortable that it could be a court-marital offense [47] — the military equivalent of a civil felony.
        May 2013 – An Air Force officer was actually made to remove a personal Bible from his own desk because it “might” appear that he was condoning the particular religion to which he belonged. [48]
        April 2013 – Officials briefing U.S. Army soldiers placed “Evangelical Christianity” and “Catholicism” in a list that also included Al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas as examples of “religious extremism.” [49]
        April 2013 – The U.S. Army directs troops to scratch off and paint over tiny Scripture verse references that for decades had been forged into weapon scopes. [50]
        April 2013 – The Air Force creates a “religious tolerance” policy but consults only a militant atheist group to do so — a group whose leader has described military personnel who are religious as ‘spiritual rapists’ and ‘human monsters’ [51] and who also says that soldiers who proselytize are guilty of treason and sedition and should be punished to hold back a “tidal wave of fundamentalists.” [52]
        January 2013 – President Obama announced his opposition to a provision in the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act protecting the rights of conscience for military chaplains. [53]
        June 2012 – Bibles for the American military have been printed in every conflict since the American Revolution, but the Obama Administration revokes the long-standing U. S. policy of allowing military service emblems to be placed on those military Bibles. [54]
        May 2012 – The Obama administration opposed legislation to protect the rights of conscience for military chaplains who do not wish to perform same-sex marriages in violation of their strongly-held religious beliefs. [55]
        April 2012 – A checklist for Air Force Inns will no longer include ensuring that a Bible is available in rooms for those who want to use them. [56]
        February 2012 – The U. S. Military Academy at West Point disinvites three star Army general and decorated war hero Lieutenant General William G. (“Jerry”) Boykin (retired) from speaking at an event because he is an outspoken Christian. [57]
        February 2012 – The Air Force removes “God” from the patch of Rapid Capabilities Office (the word on the patch was in Latin: Dei). [58]
        February 2012 – The Army ordered Catholic chaplains not to read a letter to parishioners that their archbishop asked them to read. [59]
        November 2011 – The Air Force Academy rescinds support for Operation Christmas Child, a program to send holiday gifts to impoverished children across the world, because the program is run by a Christian charity. [60]
        November 2011 – President Obama opposes inclusion of President Franklin Roosevelt’s famous D-Day Prayer in the WWII Memorial. [61]
        November 2011 – Even while restricting and disapprobating Christian religious expressions, the Air Force Academy pays $80,000 to add a Stonehenge-like worship center for pagans, druids, witches and Wiccans at the Air Force Academy. [62]
        September 2011 – Air Force Chief of Staff prohibits commanders from notifying airmen of programs and services available to them from chaplains. [63]
        September 2011 – The Army issues guidelines for Walter Reed Medical Center stipulating that “No religious items (i.e. Bibles, reading materials and/or facts) are allowed to be given away or used during a visit.” [64]
        August 2011 – The Air Force stops teaching the Just War theory to officers in California because the course is taught by chaplains and is based on a philosophy introduced by St. Augustine in the third century AD – a theory long taught by civilized nations across the world (except now, America). [65]
        June 2011 – The Department of Veterans Affairs forbids references to God and Jesus during burial ceremonies at Houston National Cemetery. [66]
        January 2010 – Because of “concerns” raised by the Department of Defense, tiny Bible verse references that had appeared for decades on scopes and gunsights were removed. [67]

        1. crankalicious profile image91
          crankaliciousposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Maybe only Christians should pay taxes so they can make all the rules. All religions should be represented by government or none should, which means that government should take a neutral stance on religion or do its best to make sure government is more inclusive of non-Christian religions.

          Your very first citation is a false news straight from Breitbart - the X-Mas ornament thing. This shows clearly, right away, where you get your news, and it's lying garbage. Nothing you say after that matters. This just demonstrates, to me, that nothing you say has value given that this was the first citation in a long list of what are clearly lies.

          Here's some reporting at the time: Conservatives are really running with Big Government's ridiculous ornament scoop, say Jeremy Holden and Jeremy Schulman in Media Matters. The ornament story "fits nicely into three of Fox News' favorite activities: red-baiting, gay-baiting, and suggesting that Obama is arrogant" — so the right-wing news network trumped up the news even though Fox host Bret Baier said the White House was unaware of what was on the ornaments made by community groups. This "gotcha story seems to be missing the gotcha."
          "Fox's straight news show runs with Breitbart's ridiculous White House ornaments scoop"

          To attach agency to this thing is just dishonest to the extreme. It is consistent with what right-wing nuts on Breitbart do with anything - twist and pervert until it fits their narrative of Obama being a foreign-born, pro-Muslim, entity. This just shows you're brainwashed.

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            "Your very first citation is a false news straight from Breitbart - the X-Mas ornament thing. This shows clearly, right away, where you get your news, and it's lying garbage."

            Sorry, it is true and DID happen.  obamas conveniently said they knew nothing about it.

            "Andrew Breitbart's Big Government website posted photos of ornaments on a White House Christmas tree that feature images of Chairman Mao, drag queen Hedda Lettuce, and Barack Obama's face on Mount Rushmore. The office of first lady Michelle Obama said that the White House didn't know what was on the ornaments, which were made by community groups and were among 800 placed on the tree in the White House's Blue Room."

            https://theweek.com/articles/498229/oba … n-ornament

          2. Castlepaloma profile image74
            Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            I wish tax free christainity was not the be all and end all of all cultures in North America.  I wish not to be a strong part of a harmful religious culture. When the arts cultures have had five times longer history and greater positive human influence, yet the lowest paid profession.  Just the fact that 25% of the world population is non religious, yet ban from US government administration shows great bidgory and high treason towards the people. 

            This christainity, military and political direct ownership of the people. It has very little to do with the human rights and freedoms of the people where people should be the boss. Like war, which is 90% predominantly religious countries. I wish to ban religion from Government, yet give them the right to religion for personal practice. The 11th commandment, thou shall keep religion to thou self.

        2. PhoenixV profile image60
          PhoenixVposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          A very comprehensive list of Obama's Anti-Christ behavior. Let's not forget the "clutch to religion" speech.

          https://youtu.be/Q6omsDyFNlk

        3. hard sun profile image91
          hard sunposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Great. I just think religion and govt should be separate per the Constitution.

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            I believe the government should not suppress religion as per the Constitution.

            1. hard sun profile image91
              hard sunposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Me too. They aren't mutually exclusive, just as Cred's Hub  out. I want to expand on my thoughts on that Hub but no time now.

          2. MizBejabbers profile image89
            MizBejabbersposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            HardSun, so do I, and Benjamin Franklin is probably rolling over in his grave.

  11. Credence2 profile image80
    Credence2posted 5 weeks ago

    I always think that Conservatives miss the true meaning of separation of church and state.

    I provide this link consistent with the theme and the topic to express my opinion on the matter. I am interested in the opinion from either left or right as to my view.

    https://hubpages.com/politics/One-Progr … rican-Life

  12. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks ago

    You've told me nothing I didn't already know, LTL. I'm surrounded by self-proclaimed Xtians down here in the deep south. I'm not condemning anyone with my statement, simply giving my opinion and experiences with the Xtian cult.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image74
      Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Randy
      When I saw your word Xtian cult. I had to look it up. Meaning christain most powerful authoritive dictatorship.

      What came to mind is Clash of the Titans. The Titans of the title are not the literal Titans of Greek mythology (giants born of Uranus and Gaea). The term as used is the generic 'titan,' meaning "one that is gigantic in size or power." This power believes it's above Government and mankind. A battle of the Gods. Forever ending of conflicting powers.

      The Stygian witches in the film refer to the Kraken and Medusa as titans. All fun yet so horribly unreal and great suffering towards mankind advancements.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Yes, I'm familiar with the film, Cas. Man creates gods, not the other way around.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image74
          Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          The old testament reminds me of the film 300. They actually believe that man lived to almost 1000 years old and were 16' to 32 ft. Tall.

          So they prepare their whole life for this God heaven of extreme happiness. Non believers have no say in this kind of God Government.  Except I don't have to suffer to this degree of hell on earth.

    2. Live to Learn profile image81
      Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Then it might help to qualify your condemnation. Something along the lines of 'this is what I think a Christian should be'. Otherwise You just sound like an old sourpuss church lady.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image74
        Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        I want them, to think for themselves and be themselves. Why do they all want to be Christians or christ- like. My christain girlfriend ideal man is a Christian, best I can do is an Elvis impersonation, farest from being myself. I certainly wouldn't want everyone to be like me. Christians can keep their church lady and their delusions too. I don't want any over dominant group dictatorship of any kind over everyone. There is no better leader in this world over you, than yourself.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        I abhor self-righteousness from those who believe in an invisible god of some sort. Nonreligious people seldom act as though THEY are better because they believe in  supernatural being.

        1. tsadjatko profile image58
          tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Just the kind of rhetoric you’d expect to hear from a self admitted pot smuggler - no surprise here.

          Hatred has no bounds.

          Everything good on earth is because of a belief in God. Nothing good is the result of those who despise the living God. Hatred is all they have.

          People like Randy abhor people who believe in their creator while Christians pray for and show love to those who despise their creator.

          That says it all.

          1. PhoenixV profile image60
            PhoenixVposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Not only that but they like to accuse. Accuse Christians. Accuse Trump.

            They are the accusers..

            (Theme song from the Exorcist)
            https://youtu.be/Q6omsDyFNlk

            1. Castlepaloma profile image74
              Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              Did the Camera man film this with one hand?.

              Hot, hot hot.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Why are you lying, T. My parents and siblings also claim to be Xtians. They're all good people, but they don't have a monopoly for being good.

            I abhor or hate no one, not even you, despite your following me around on the forums and article comments calling me names and lying about what I think or feel.

            I've been banned for months for posting insults you post on a regular basis. But then, I don't report you because your comments hurt you more than me.

            1. PhoenixV profile image60
              PhoenixVposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              https://i.chzbgr.com/full/724647168/h1F7BADBC/dont-cry-for-me-argentina

        2. Live to Learn profile image81
          Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          So your self righteousness is ok, since you don't believe in an invisible god?

          1. tsadjatko profile image58
            tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Randy is so duplicitous it’s impossible to know how he feels about anything except that he is full of hatred. When accused of hating Trump his answer was

            “ Ha! I can't hate someone I don't respect, James.”

            Does that jive with what he said here? NO!

            When accused of hating Jesus he says

            “How can i hate someone I don't believe ever existed?”

            There is no question that Jesus existed, but he makes up a reason to deny he hates him. Who is more self righteous than Jesus? He just said he hates self righteousness!   

            His definition of self righteousness is simply anyone who disagrees with him and can prove he is wrong about any thing.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              I assume you have a photo of Jesus in your pocket, right?

          2. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Have I said I believe in unicorns, and because of it, know more about fairy tales than you.  I also don't preach to people who think differently than I, disagree sure, but it's different thing.

            It's not unusual for used car dealers--and new car dealers as well--to act like they can save your soul and sell a car at the same time. I've had them pull out their pocket bible and swear on it they're telling the truth about the price and condition.

            1. tsadjatko profile image58
              tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              According to 2011 Pew Research Center survey, there are 2.18 billion Christians around the world in 2010, up from about 600 million in 1910. According to 2015 Believers in Christ from a Muslim Background: A Global Census study estimates 10,283,700 Muslim converted to Christianity around the world.

              But you, self righteous Randy, likens then all to used car salesmen. You don’t preach? Well what do you do every time you encounter a believer who shares his belief with you?

              From what I’ve seen you never fail to ridicule them and to preach to them that they believe a fantasy, you parrot every debunked theory that Christ never existed, you basically preach against Christians and Christianity every chance you get. And you “ don't preach to people who think differently than I”

              Give me a break!

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Just because people belive in Jesus, bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus, doesn't mean I have to buy into them, T.

                I realize you don't like me and I really don't give a big dog F**k what you think about me. So go bother someone who's weak. That's your best bet.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image74
                Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Tsad according to wiki and pew research christainity is in a great decline and non believers are the fastest growing group.

                The world has figured out Adam was not the smartest man ever and we been getting smarter ever since.

                Anybody has to hate their entire family, if they Don't love JC first, is nuts. I don't know any group that is that judgemental and hateful to other people. You are welcome to your own religious beliefs, it's just Randy or I just don't have to be for it.

                I just don't follow the lead sheep into volcanos of hell on earth, like with Trump.

                https://religionunplugged.com/news/2019 … w-research

                1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Thanks Cas, I totally agree with you. smile

                2. hard sun profile image91
                  hard sunposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Deleted

                  1. abwilliams profile image55
                    abwilliamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    You do realize that the New Testament is a compilation of notes, letters, eyewitness testimony, etc. from the hand of those that were actually there?

                    They were students, being taught discipleship...learning from the Master.

                    I do not think it the least bit odd that it was necessary for them to leave their lives behind, for a time, for a great commission, a commission like no other.

                    Do you all dismiss other history so quickly?

              3. cam8510 profile image93
                cam8510posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                Tsad, You cited the Pew Research poll that there are 2.18 billion Christians in the world. You do realize, don't you, all those "Christians" are divided up into groups that reject each other as being Christian. It is convenient to pile them all together in this discussion and claim that they are all one thing. Whatever point you were trying to make is pretty damn weak in light of that fact.

                1. tsadjatko profile image58
                  tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Your point is the only weak point. To Randy, to whom the comment was made. they are all the same. “Self righteous people  who believe in an invisible god of some sort” And that was my point. You do realize they all believe in, what Randy calls, an invisible god.

                  Your point (which I wouldn’t dispute) is irrelevant in the context for which my comment was given but then I doubt you even read the initiation of my comment.

                  I forgive you.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image95
                    Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Tsadjako, It's interesting how people talk about God in this way and yet many people believe in things claimed by science that can't be seen.  Theories for everything from the beginning of the universe to there being another dimension are only theories. They require faith in scientific theory.

                    One thing science can't tell you is what happens to you when you leave this earth.  It is an experience that awaits all of us and yet, nobody seems to think about it.

                    I have faith I will go on after I leave this body in this earth.  There is no science that could prove me right or wrong.  They could put their faith in a scientific "theory" about it, but I will hold tight to my faith of what happens.  It puts my time in this world into clear perspective.

                  2. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                    The turtle forgives you! BWAHAHAHA! lol

            2. Live to Learn profile image81
              Live to Learnposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

              I think we are sympatico, in your last paragraph. I don't but from anyone who brings up Christianity when trying to convince me. It's off putting and suspicious.

  13. cam8510 profile image93
    cam8510posted 5 weeks ago

    As a former Republican and Evangelical Christian, I can say that Trump represents nothing that Conservatives/Evangelicals have stood for in the past. The hallmarks of conservativism up to now have been antiabortion, against gay rights and marriage, in favor of Evangelical viewpoints being taught in public schools, against contraception for youth, in favor of men and women of character and morality leading the nation, low taxes, less government.

    No Evangelical who supports Trump can make a serious case that the man represents any of these positions except possibly taxation, but that could be debated. But don't miss the point. The man does not represent conservatism as it was defined up until he began his campaign for 2016. Conservatives trashed all their core beliefs and invested in a man who believes women are sex toys. Evangelicals/conservatives should be hiding their faces in shame. Just my opinion. I never participate in these discussions, but this question caught my eye.

  14. Castlepaloma profile image74
    Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks ago

    We all know, pretty well the religious can be led around by political means very easily. For the US Congress is 95% Judeo-Christian. Trump knows it, here is what Trump said to people magazine that I watch on video a half dozen times, because even I couldn't believe what I saw and heard.

    Trump quote- If I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific."

    People Magazine interview in 1998.ⁿ

    1. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      I don't like Trump anymore than  you do, but truth is truth, right? Factcheck.org...https://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/bogus-meme-targets-trump/ That quote was bogus. It started on FaceBook. Part of me wishes it was true. It would be convenient. But really, the man has made so many ridiculous comments that we know are true, we can do without this one.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image74
        Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        It's like what my old grandma won't talk about when it comes to deep secrets that interest me more than what she will talk about, when it involves the family tree.

        I know what video I saw on Oprah and Peoples Magazine plus the whole world saw it. It wasn't fake because I work on some film and editing. It was never explained nor by his followers. They just call it fake and can't prove it.

        It was pulled off because this one would be most damaging in front of the Republicans.  Why would you disbelieve in this one, when the man is the greatest denier and lyar the world has most recently seen?

        1. cam8510 profile image93
          cam8510posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Thanks, I'll look at it some more.

  15. Castlepaloma profile image74
    Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks ago

    Trump statement was film in a live audience, Trump has power to pull the videos, he couldn't get away with drone killing the audience, could he? After 9/ 11 anything is possible especially Trump watching Iraqis dancing in the street from his Trump tower.

  16. tsadjatko profile image58
    tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks ago

    Well Mike it boils down to one thing which is the moral question. Those people embrace sin in one form or another and do not want to give it up or change their lives. So the only choice they have is to deny God exists therefor there is no judgement, they are free to create their own morality, to each his own and away with moral absolutes. If God doesn’t exist then who is to say they are sinning? And of course, then anyone who believes in God is the enemy! They must be dismissed! This brief 3 minute video clip explains it all too well.

    https://youtu.be/wjBZIv4CH8o

    1. tsadjatko profile image58
      tsadjatkoposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      That post above was my reply to this post by Mike but I don’t see his post anymore. (Could be this thread doesn’t act right on my iPhone so this is what I responded to)

      Readmikenow profile image
      Readmikenow 67 minutes ago:
      Tsadjatko,
      I suppose these individuals feel the same way about the Islamic Quran, the Jewish Torah, the sacred texts of the Hindus known as the Vedas, The Kojiki of Shintoism as well as Buddhism's Tripitaka

      I'm always amazed at how billions of people around the world believe in a God.  Even in primitive cultures they have a sense of good and evil.

      BUT

      Some people dismiss all people around the world who have faith.  I find this both ignorant and arrogant.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image74
        Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        I am not anti anything, just base my life on good sense and I am what I think, first. Not what every God or person thinks I should be.

        All the endless suffering from sins of uneducated behaviour and over focus toward sex, prisons and war shows they are the most guilty of. Religious proven they don't give hoot toward natural environment and they run the poorest financial countries in the world too.

        I don't need bad baggage of regrets and guilt of sins. I just make adjustments in my life for mistakes I make and learn from. The 10 commandments of many nonsense morals can be boil down simply two business like ethics, be honest and don't harm. Trying to go beyond by sheep herders guild to the universe, will not advance human spirits, heart nor brain.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          Well stated, Cas!

    2. hard sun profile image91
      hard sunposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      You just said that you need a mythical daddy in order to even attempt to be a good person. And you attacked people who don't need a mythical daddy to understand right from wrong and be basically "good".

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Anyone who lives in the western Culture has had their views of right or wrong as well as good and bad influenced from the   Judeo-Christian tradition. It has influenced the laws, culture as well as society and more.  Things are different in the East.  What is considered a "good" person in western culture is different from someone in the eastern culture.

        This is a fact and it is indisputable.

        In Muslim countries, it is wrong and bad to make artwork with a image. In Hindu countries, it is considered bad and wrong to do anything against cows as they are considered holy. 

        In Muslim countries it it acceptable for men to have more than one wife.  In Hindu countries, it is also acceptable to have very young child brides.

        I could go on, but I'll stop here.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image74
          Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          There are far too many laws where the punishment is worst than the crime. Same for the hell concept, as it all an elustion and fears for control of the Hierarchy, combined religion, military and politics. When any of these groups stand in the way of my health, liberty, and happiness, they will find out who the real boss is. Hierarchy greed breaks more criminal laws,  Constitution laws, international laws and nature's law more than any other group.  Authorities kill and steal more as 95% of the crimes are occupational crimes, not street crimes.

          From traveling the whole world, people are basically good. There is very little need for ancient biblical or other religious laws.

          As the arts and culture has had a much longer and a positive influential to human kind in world history than religions. 

          The threat of having a monkey shoved up your butt in Muslim hell. Can't be any worst than a Christian hell of burning and being eaten by Beast for eternity. If hell is not real, why is it written as much as heaven in the Bible. They got you coming and going, like slave's, yet they don't influence me or own me.

          Yet, Trumps is catching alot of suckers in his tooling of Religion like the entire US administration do,  in order to make themselves the only true God's daily.

        2. hard sun profile image91
          hard sunposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          I don't consider the bible a very good place to get morals at all. In fact, I don't think most Christians get their morals from the bible. Otherwise, we'd be stoning to death adulterers..like Trump.

    3. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      That is so obviously wrong, it is almost embarrassing to comment. You are not morally superior to anyone. Christians in general are not morally superior. Don't say you didn't imply that. You did. The antithesis to what you said is that Those who believe a god exists do not embrace sin in one form or another and therefore have no sin to give up. This is a hypocritical position. You know it isn't true. The world knows Christians are no more moral than anyone else. So what good are your "moral absolutes" if they don't make you more moral? By what authority do you judge me to be less moral than you? And don't cop out with the lame excuse that Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven. You most certainly believe you are morally superior. If you'd like to see the polling data comparing Evangelicals and the rest of the population regarding common "sins"  I can' post the link.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

        Facts mean nothing to the Turtle, Don. Don't waste your time.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image74
          Castlepalomaposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

          That sounds like a serious mind condition. Facts mean nothing.
          Lol.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Trust me, Cas. smile

 
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