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ZeitGeist...The Spirit of the times?

  1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
    Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago

    I saw this movie in a hub, I found a link to it on YouTube and I really would like opinions on it. It is a full length movie and you need to watch it all, it has three main parts the first of which is on religion. Christians may have trouble with the first section, deep breaths... but please watch and lets talk...

    I found it VERY thought provoking.

    Here is the video link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiuaGJ46zo

    Here is the Wiki link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist

    1. Faybe Bay profile image83
      Faybe Bayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The political aspects of 9/11 were to me something I knew and was admonished at the time not to say. My friends at work said I was speaking treason and could be put in jail.
      I said if I just woke up in a country where I can be jailed for speaking my piece then cuff me now.

      They reminded me I had a small child to think of and so, I complied with the silence and it ate me up inside to think I was living in a country where the government could do this, and raising a child here.

      It behooves many to "Blame Obama" but the problems here started from way before that election.

      I have said my piece on the film, politics and in another forum religion.

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Can you give us links to those threads?

    2. double_frick profile image63
      double_frickposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      i was thinking about this movie yesterday.
      on the one hand it is full of a lot of information.
      on the other hand its information people don't want to know or hear about.
      i have many other movies that actually top zeitgeist...but i do think that it is the most comprehensive and well presented 9-11 truth movie. i def. believe that 9-11 was in inside job and this movie really sealed the deal for me.
      though the beginning christian symbolism part was a bit out of place in the movie, even if it is new for some people.
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 381895251#
      thats a movie that has a lot of zeitgeist clips...and a lot from other movies, all the best in one full length movie. smile
      i'm pretty sure the one i posted is the one that insures i will not put my child in the public school system.

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        OMG!!! this video is well worth the 2 and a half hours it takes to watch it.

  2. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

    When I have time....

  3. fierycj profile image80
    fierycjposted 7 years ago

    I saw it. I have a copy. I actually agree with a lot of the things said there. Weirdly enough, I've agreed and thought of some of the things researched there, even before I heard 'Zeitgeist'...

  4. Hokey profile image59
    Hokeyposted 7 years ago

    I first saw this movie about two years ago. Very informative and accurate. Careful Brenda. You will not like it but I hope you will be open minded enough to watch it.

    1. Faybe Bay profile image83
      Faybe Bayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hokey, have you seen "What the Bleep Do We Know?" (Down the Rabbit Hole)

      I lent out my copy and sadly never got it back. Can't afford a new one. You will love it if you haven't seen it yet. I recommend the box set for someone like you, not the dinky theatrical version.

      1. rebekahELLE profile image89
        rebekahELLEposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I've seen both movies you speak of. I'm sure like anything else we're fed, there is some truth in them. just like the news, there's some truth in it. hmm

        honestly, I think the general public is too naive and accepts something is true only because it is printed or aired on a news channel of their choice. we're fed stuff that is so biased and twisted to say what the media wants us to hear.

        who really knows...
        I posted a video last night on a thread about how fox news changed an investigative story about monsanto and the bovine growth hormone fed to cows than can cause cancer in humans. quite interesting to hear from the two reporters point of view who were ousted from their jobs.
        can't remember the thread, it was in the health forum about a war against natural foods.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
          Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I would tend to say that the public isn't so much naive, to me it is more like experienced in the fact that they have no power to influence the situation and have decided to stop wasting their time in a useless attempt.

          1. Specialkizza profile image59
            Specialkizzaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You are speaking of 911 I'm assumming; since it is the past, and there aint much you can do about it now right.

  5. profile image0
    Justine76posted 7 years ago

    Ill have to come backlater, Ive got to go run errands. I am extremly excited, as I can now fianlly watch video.
    hey fiery!!

  6. fierycj profile image80
    fierycjposted 7 years ago

    @Justine...whats up?

    1. profile image0
      Justine76posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      not too much, just thinking how odd it is Mr V's hub is suddenly contoversial.
      hows movie life?

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I don't think MrVoodoo's hub is controversial, I just find this video thought provoking.

        For example, Horus...the First of many 'christs'???

        Same birthday, same miracles as christianity...evidence in the hieroglyphs of Egypt...

        The part about the sun staying put on the horizon for 3 consecutive days(sunrises?)...I don't think that is true(or possible) except in possibly places like Alaska, since they are referencing a belief system created in Egypt it seems far fetched that it is the origin of the resurrection belief, that may just be hindsight coincedence? The use of the term 'North' is confusing to me...the Sun doesn't move north sometimes and south others, the Earth leans on it's axis differently throughout the year...


        Some of the parallels (imho) are just reaching, the comparison of Joseph in the old testament to Jesus for example. I find myself thinking I could find as many 'parallels' to myself and any person named in much the same way they are creating parallels between these two people.


        The part about the Bush presidents' Dad/Grandfather...??? {Prescott Bush}

        1. profile image0
          Justine76posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I read it when it was new, but couldn't watch the movie. Now I have a new computer and can, but Im short on time right this second. I have every intention of watching it as soon as I can.
          I will gladly disccuss my impression of it!
          about the "controversy"....I was mstly joking and didnt mean you.  smile

        2. ledefensetech profile image66
          ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Try reading The Golden Bough.  It was a comparison of different societal beliefs throughout history.  We've known about the similarity between Christian symbols and beliefs and similar beliefs not only in Europe and the Near East, but all around the world. 

          Many people, for example, know the story about Noah and his Ark.  Fewer people know the story of Utanapishtim:

          http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mes … /tab11.htm

          Even fewer people know the story the Aztec people told of a great flood.  Indeed many peoples and cultures from around the world tell a similar story:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_myth

          So there really isn't anything unusual in the similarity of certain Christian beliefs and symbols and those of pagan or pre-Christian religions.  Jung had a theory that we all have these similar beliefs in what he called the Collective Unconscious and archetypes.  I don't happen to believe in that theory but it was one of the first attempts to reconcile the question as to why so many cultures, separated so far in space and time, could have the same beliefs and symbology.

  7. ledefensetech profile image66
    ledefensetechposted 7 years ago

    More conspiratorial nonsense.  I especially loved the part.  "Just after the attack, government agents arrived to take debris from the scene".  Duh.  How else do you think investigations get started.  Don't get me wrong, I love the Internet, but when I see crap like this, I have to wonder how many people really believe this nonsense.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      DUH?  By preserving the site and by not disturbing any evidence what so ever. By logging the names and times of arrival of any and every person on or near the scene. By taking pictures and video to preserve the scene. By finding any video sources that may have film of the event (atm/bank teller cams, security cams, traffic cams...etc) By getting measurements of the scene and every object at or near the scene. Once the entire scene has been preserved {sometimes weeks or months later(outdoor scenes are usually processed faster due to possible changes in the weather)}, then and only then, the evidence is collected along with the itemized records and taken to secure sites for further testing and analysis...

      ...Yea DUH...

  8. FranyaBlue profile image78
    FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago

    Another good one to watch is The Arrivals - The people who put it together have also set up something called The Wake Up Project. Anyway it really just mixes up all of the conspiracy theories and links them all together.

    1. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hey I like a good story, just like the next guy, but some of this stuff is really nutty.

      1. double_frick profile image63
        double_frickposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        feel free to elaborate for the sake of conversation. wink

  9. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    In terms of the government being involved in the 9-11 attacks, I don't agree with the way Zeitgeist represents mamy ideas, but I do believe that there is a connection...

    The similarities between Cuba and Iraq are too close...and if anyone here knows the history behind U.S. Cuban and U.S. Iraq relations I think we could have an interesting conversation...

    and Operation Northwoods fits nicely within both...,,,


    Yet, a lot of Zeitgeist is not accurate...in terms of comparing the birthdates of deities....they certainly did not get their info factchecked.....and while I have not seen the newer versions of the film, I just could not tell others to watch it, because I felt that it was, overall, recklessly made....

    1. double_frick profile image63
      double_frickposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      i agree about the relligion part. could've (should've) done better.
      what about the 9-11 part.

      i don't know the reason or the exact situation surrounding 9-11, but i have a pretty good idea. and i know that a group of men (however evil) who cannot even properly shoot an automatic weapon (as i have heard the boys report back about the "terrorists" in the middle east) definitely did not masterfully fly TWO planes into tall, skinny buildings. hmm

    2. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Come on Mike, you know as well as I do that our intelligence services heard rumblings about something going down in 2001, but there is no way they could have predicted what happened.  It's like what happened prior to the Battle of the Bulge.  Allied intelligence knew the Germans were building up for something, but not what.  Does that mean the Allies were accomplices in the German Ardennes offensive?  No.

      Prior to 9/11 most intelligence agencies were looking for "ultraterrorism" like the Tokyo Sarin attacks.  That's why 9/11 worked.  While we were looking for high tech terrorism, the terrorists used low tech methods and our own planes against us.  There was no government conspiracy, all 9/11 did was show the limitations of government agencies in protecting us.  In the end we are responsible for our own safety.  The Feds try and are even successful, I'd say most of the time, but all the terrorists have to do is get lucky once.  Security agencies have to get lucky all the time.  Sooner or later there will be another failure.  The important thing to do is ask yourself, what will you do if you find yourself in a situation like that.

      1. double_frick profile image63
        double_frickposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        hey rebekahELLE, i just watched the monsanto video from the other thread! LOL  i've seen it before, its such a great example of the corruption in the media though.

        i disagree about people not being that naive.
        i grew up being told not to believe everything you see on tv. but now, even those same adults, believe ever g__ d___ thing they see on that damn box!  its sad, really. if it is on the news, it may as well be in the bible, as far as most people are concerned. i hear some of the most asinine, out-there crap said on the news and people gobble it up like a turkey freakin dinner. pa-thet-ic. and hey, i'm pretty out-there! LOL

        but, i also know that almost any material, alternative or mainstream, has bits of truth and some amount of bull shit. whether intended or not.

      2. Specialkizza profile image59
        Specialkizzaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        @ ledefensetech, about your Ardennes offensive comment, I'd like to know what you think about wars from WWI till now. Is it likely that man has changed its thinking so much in such a short period of time. Putting your life on the line for freedom is one thing. What do you think the motives of mans wars are? Does it make sense to fight them today. Can not both sides be involved. Generals no longer die in war, and politicians surely don't. I'm just wondering where you are coming from when you say limitations in protecting us. Protecting us from who? Motive is so important. They are crazy and brainwashed, is this the motive? Their leaders are crazy and brainwashed by whom? You might be able to shed some light on this for me.

        1. ledefensetech profile image66
          ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Government agencies are by their very nature bureaucracies.  Bureaucracies, by their very nature, impede the flow of information.  You really have to be a part of it or have seen it in action to really understand how bureaucracies work and what their limitations are.  Tipping Point by Malcom Gladwell is an excellent read and illustrates how non-bureaucratic systems work.  Bureaucracy by Ludwig von Mises is another illustrative work on how and why bureaucracies limit information flow.

          http://mises.org/books/bureaucracy.pdf

          Consider 9/11.  The passengers on Flights 11, 77 and 175 had literally no warning that the rules had changed. They did what people had been taught to do up until that time.  Stay quiet, listen to the terrorists and let the professionals deal with them.  Flight 93 had enough time to get the word and turned the tables on the terrorists.

          Consider Charles Whitman.  After his shooting rampage, police departments around the US emphasized a contain-and-wait policy when dealing with those situations.  The kids who attacked Columbine High, changed that calculation.  Since then, departments around the nation have been training in "active shooter tactics". 

          http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 … tics_N.htm

          The point of all of this is to point out that governmental agencies, even when they work, are at best reactive, not proactive.  The best way I've heard it phrased goes something like this:  "Police take minutes to respond when seconds count".

          As for the terrorists themselves, are they brainwashed?  No.  They're in it for power, pure and simple.  While they claim to have the interests of the "common" Muslim in mind, they, like every other revolutionary over the last few centuries are just gong to elevate themselves as the new elite and the plight of the "common" man will be much as it was before.

  10. profile image0
    StormRyderposted 7 years ago

    WoW...thats a long one Mikel....my ADD won't let me get all the way through it...lol

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yea, that's what ALL the ladies tell me....  big_smile big_smile big_smile

      1. profile image0
        StormRyderposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Hey!!! You trying to say something?? lol

        I had to go to physical therapy too. So didn't have time to watch http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3889/128add.jpg

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
          Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          big_smile  Take your time the post will be here.

          ...I don't suffer fro... what a pretty kitty...what was I saying?

  11. zaureny profile image71
    zaurenyposted 7 years ago

    Have you heard of the D.U.M.B.S (deep underground military bases)?
    Supposedly there are over a hundred in the US and are designed to hold the entire population.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEIY_zzf … re=related

  12. double_frick profile image63
    double_frickposted 7 years ago

    two points from zeitgeist that really get me:
    -what happened to building 7?
    -i'm still seeing reports this year about scientist arguing there WAS indeed thermite in the buildings...i think its important to note that a buildings fell from *fire* not from the impact of the planes. a building like that has never been brought down by a fire...ever. that was a first. and those who designed the building designed it to withstand multiple collisions. hmm

    and Zaureny: i have heard of these. one in particular the Denver international airport.

    you know they moved the same amount of earth in the construction of that airport as in the Panama canal???

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yea that thermite....That's a hard one to dismiss as sillyness isn't it...

    2. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, and the answer seems obvious, but scary.

      The fear of it being true is so very terrifying, most don't want to hear it I bet. Or simply want to be able to dismiss it.

  13. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Led......I was in the military...and working in sigint....and I know that we were itching for any way to get into Iraq....

    Again....we needed to be in World War II....and we found a way in.....


    We wanted to get Cuba......and we found a way in several times....


    Getting access to Afghanistan made sense....but Iraq??  More people knew....I guarantee it...

    Check out Northwoods.....read the whole thing...it isn't real long...

    I have an article that I'm piecing together over time comparing bot Cuba to Iraq...but something so complex requires a lot of time and energy...(and I have a lot of other topics that have some priority).

    1. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Oh don't get me wrong, certain groups in the government wanted us in Iraq and were willing to use any tactic or technique to get us in.  I don't dispute that. I know our government does things for its own purposes and very rarely is that in our best interest.

      That being said, I think they knew something was coming but not what.  They were probably hoping it would be something like the guys they caught in 2000 trying to sneak bombs across the borders and blow up New Years revelers.  As corrupt as our government is, I don't see them deliberately allowing 3,000 civilians to die just to get into Iraq.  If for no other reason than if it got out, and it would, a government secret is like a fire wrapped in paper, they consequences would have been catastrophic.

  14. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    My issue is Led, that these forces who wanted us in Cuba, Iraq, Mexico, and elsewhere like to sacrifice American lives...

    My hopes are that, when such an event happens again, that we can collectively pause and think for ourselves first....and not let factions in government take advantage of our national wealth, money and human life-wise......

    This is why I look with such scrutiny at Dick Cheney....and his relationship to Haliburton...as do others..and his prior connection to the DoD and executive branch..

    After the first Gulf War, however, Cheney went on the record defending George I'sts decision to not invade Iraq altogether....it's too bad that he had a "change of mind" prior to becoming V.P.....

    Of course...he did not become the CEO of Haliburton until Clinton came to office, and Cheney was replaced..

    1. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Never let a good crisis go to waste".  That is the real enemy.  Fascist Republicans used that to attempt to create an American Empire, just like the Communist Democrats use that to attempt to create a "Soviet Union of Amerika".  Granted we're talking about the radical wings of both parties, but if we, as people, refuse to lose our head during a crises, they wouldn't get the chance to get away with the stuff they do.

      Note I said 'as people' and not 'as a people'.  I'm an individualist.  If we want to change things we have to do it person by person.  If people lose their minds in a crisis, we have to do a better job at teaching people to remain calm and reasonable during a crisis.  Unfortunately most of our "leaders" use rhetoric and sophism rather than reason to come to the conclusions they come to.

  15. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    I agree with you Led....which is why we...minds like yours and mine, have a responsibility to those in our communities around us, who may succumb to "peer pressure".

    I am an individual in that I will face life in the first person, but without family and community, the individual doesn't survive, or survive long..

    Especially in the society we live in now....we are interdependent...

    If something bad happens to the ports of Los Angeles/Long Beach...individual places around the nation would suffer terribly...

    We make decisions for ourselves, but we need to help others who don't know what choice to make...or realize what choices they have before them....

    1. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      It's distressing to me to see how many people confuse self-interest and selfishness.  There are plenty of times during the day where it might be in my self-interest to help others.  Even if the payback is only feeling good about myself, it is still a benefit to me.  That doesn't cheapen the action by any means.

      As for your example of the Port of LA, well if it were shut down, that would be a bad thing, but you don't consider adaptability.  Like your trucing example, you're right truckers suffered from a changing economy, but those changes also included an entirely new information based sector that didn't exist before.  People who could see the change prepared themselves.  The Port of LA might suffer, but alternatives would have to be found because the demand for the stuff that the Port does would not diminish.  So if you thought about the situation, you'd probably try to identify places that would benefit from the closure of the Port or look at other Ports that would undoubtedly increase the amount of stuff that goes through them.  Those changes mean opportunity for people who can see them and give you an opportunity to provide for you and your family should something bad ever happen to the Port of LA.

  16. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Led...not only do I mean in terms of a shutdown..but if something were to deny use of those ports indefinitely...like an attack of some type....the repercussions would make the economic downturn following 9-11 look like good times...

    San Pedro are wonders of the world created by and for private interests...to ensure that their investments, and not rivals, were monopolized...

    Central Pacific Railroad moving forward.....

    We the people of Los Angeles paid for it all.....

    We have gained some back because of the power that this node of goods movement has.....40% of everything entering the U.S. comes through my city....ship-rail-truck.....

    And the issues aren't only for truck drivers....but for the communities, like City of Commerce, that are poisoned by the trucks and trains they are surrounded by.... Diesel particulate matter is some of the worst.....  Check out the City of Commerce on google earth or google maps with the satelite view.....check out Bandini Park...and see what is surrounding the little community....

    But business tries to keep from living up to its responsibilities...so independent owner-operators are driving trucks that are very old, and pollute horribly.....but they don't make the money to get better, more efficient, and cleaner running trucks....not only do they break down more (increasing personal cost while losing income due to lost drive time) but they are killing themselves and the people they move by...literally...

    The Clean Trucks Program alters this....by enabling truckers to form companies that hire employees...(no more owner-operator contracts for the Port of LA/while the Port of LB will take both), but trucking companies will be given resources to buy new trucks....while the city takes charge of the destruction of the old polluter trucks....

    Employees instead of contract labor means that workers can vote for unionization if they wish...which should always be their choice.....  This will mean higher wages...and better benefits...and their jobs cannot be offshored or outsourced because goods always have to come in and out of U.S. markets and industry....

    Logistics is a key industry....and we can turn the lives of millions of people in this nation and outside of we want to....

    1. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know, Mike.  The economic downturn of 2000-2001 is looking pretty good in comparison to today.  smile

      I'm also not saying that people wouldn't suffer and that there wouldn't be change.  They would and there would be.  But one benefit to studying history is gaining an understanding of how these things tend to turn out.  If you know that, you can plan effectively "in case something happens".

      You do bring up a good point and I wonder if you understand the significance.  You rightly claim that public-private investment has allowed the Port of LA to garner 40% of the nations imported goods.  Quite a bit of that is probably due to location, but quite a bit is probably due to public money as well.  The one thing I can say for certain is that the Port of LA is far larger than it would have been without the infusion of public money.  Bigger is good, right?

      Not always.  For one thing since the Port handles 40% of our imports, it's a major failure point.  Consider the reasons the military developed the Internet.  Decentralization of military communications ensured that even in the event of a nuclear war, our military would still be able to communicate.  Do we have a similar system in place for the Port of LA, or are we whistling past the graveyard like those poor souls caught up in the deeds of 9/11?

      As for the truckers not paying for upkeep, well there's a built in consequence for that isn't there.  Sooner or later they're going to go bankrupt and you won't have to see their old, polluting trucks on the road will you?

      Meanwhile, who's going to get the contract to do trucking for the Port of LA?  My guess is that the politically connected or those with money will.  How does that help your average Angeleno looking for a job.  How do you know that the company that does get the contract will keep costs down and not featherbed their expenses and pass that on to the taxpayer?

      Before you get all gooey about unions, you might want to see what Harvey experienced in Chicago during the 1970's:



      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/36766?page=12

  17. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Led.....San Pedro was not a good location..

    The Huntington-Stanford ilk had solidified their logistics monopoly through the port of San Francisco...but they knew a southern transcontinental would run...and they new that San Diego's beautiful natural port would post them dire competition....and they went down to Los Angeles, and inland city with no ocean front, and motivated the Chamber of Commerce to annex a thin strip of land leading to San Pedro/Wilmington, and then took them over....

    The Bay was shallow...mudflats...but they turned it into the best harbor public money can finance, and private business could profit...

    Pier 400 is the largest container terminal on the planet....

    1. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Again Mike, you make my point for me.  By allowing the Huntington-Stanford people to do what they did, they interfered in what otherwise would have naturally put things in San Diego, and had them put in LA.  How did they do it?  By the Chamber of Commerce.  By the way, it sounds to me that the Chamber of Commerce became the city government of LA, would that be accurate?  In that case, it's a bit of a fallacy to equate the LA Chamber of Commerce of the past with the current Chambers of Commerce around the nation.

  18. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Absolutely...we are the city that big business built out of nothing....and peopled through advertisement...as opposed to natural migration...

    And we, the people who live here, have to deal with what was created....again, going back to the concept of the Fragmented Metropolis....

    We were built so that San Diego would suffer and Huntington (Huntington Park, Huntington Beach, Huntington Library) and Stanford (Stanford University) would keep their stranglehold on goods movement...

    It is time the people of Los Angeles, and the Inland Empire, and elsewhere controlled their own destinies a bit more...and leave the big business builders and shapers out...they have to use our services and location...which is why the ILWU has so much power...which is also why there is such a drive by the logistics corporates to build ports in Mexico, and rail lines that would make LA/LB less powerful....and undercutting the jobs of logistics workers in this state, and nation, even more...

    I have spent time at Pier 400, with executives from Maersk-Moeller...and I know what their thoughts are.....and they can't wait to move to Mexico...

    If we are smart, and care about the protection of our jobs and society, we would enable groups like the ILWU to form in Mexico, and gain governmental protection, so that the interests of Moeller and Slim (and their Huntington co-conspirators) cannot be met on their terms...no race to the bottom in logistics...

    Transnational movements are increasingly important....for the U.S. is not out on an island, invulnerable to change.... We have to prepare for the future...

    1. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Transnational movements are increasingly important....for the U.S. is not out on an island, invulnerable to change.... We have to prepare for the future..."


      Translation: "Workers of the world, unite!"


      roll

    2. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      So you are a union member.  Well that clarifies things.  Sorry but you'll get no agreement from me.  It's because of things like the ILWU that businesses have shut down in the US and moved to places like Mexico.  It's nice that you want to see the ILWU expand, but then you'll be throwing Mexican workers out of business as companies leave that country as well. 

      I have mentioned before that CA is bankrupt, right?  The ILWU is a big part of that because the political climate in CA has driven away many businesses and much of the wealth of that state.  It's been to the benefit of other states and countries, but citizens of CA have suffered as these places have left.  What are you going to do when all of your business leave because they can't afford to do business there?

  19. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    A Sad/TK typical remark to substance......

    Pathetic and empty as usual...

  20. Sab Oh profile image57
    Sab Ohposted 7 years ago

    It's exactly what you said, and clearly what you mean. Very transparent.

  21. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    I am not a union member....I work for a non-profit that is contracted by the state to provide tutoring and mentoring services to foster youth....I am "At-will"...and have no protections of any kind...

    I can lose my job now and be told through a phone call with no reason given....

    Sad, isn't it?

    I do the job that teachers leave behind, sweeping up after kids who are on the brink of being permanent social program dependents in some way, and I get paid poorly, have to provide in-home service in my own vehicle with minimum compensation, and have no job security...

    Privatization....

    I wish that we, the tutors and mentors, could unionize....no more 12 dollars an hour while the upper staff are paid fat salaries.....they cut my hours wherever they can....but that is what is fated for the wage-slave....

    All deserve salary....and the right to have due cause and notification before termination....and the right to have a review of the decision by an unbiased, or hopefully so, review board....

    1. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "I am "At-will"...and have no protections of any kind...

      I can lose my job now and be told through a phone call with no reason given...."


      Then you'd better work hard and do a good job, huh?

    2. ledefensetech profile image66
      ledefensetechposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Been there, done that.  We actually worked to save our facility from both being closed or privatized.  I've since come to regret that.  Privatization is the best thing we could have done.

    3. profile image0
      lyricsingrayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      hey mike, your one of the good ones. thanks.

  22. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Whatever "good" means Saddie Boy....

    It is nice to do as you, and speak rhetorically...

    As I read your words faces flashed through my mindseye....of people with more experience, more skill, and better work who have been terminated...with no cause...and when a cause is later given, it is then found to be a complete lie...

    Now, fair would be for these employees to then hold a hearing to prove that allegations against them were lies, and sue for wrongful termination...

    But At-Will ensures that this move is trumped....can't do nothin...

    Come out here and get a job with me Saddie....let us see your ethic..

    1. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "As I read your words faces flashed through my mindseye....of people with more experience, more skill, and better work who have been terminated...with no cause...and when a cause is later given, it is then found to be a complete lie..."


      Yeah, and every inmate in prison is really innocent.

    2. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Now, fair would be for these employees to then hold a hearing to prove that allegations against them were lies"


      Ah, the employees hold a hearing! roll Wonder how most of those would turn out...

      "to prove that allegations against them were lies"

      I guess we know!

      Why not just hold a public self-criticism session by the owner of the company? You could have him sit in shame with a large placard around his neck announcing his crimes and force him to admit his guilt for hour after hour while the villagers loot his home and pelt him with rocks.

      Then it's off to the reeducation camp in a nice blue peasant suit with matching cap and little red book!

      Paradise!!!


      roll

  23. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
    Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago

    Mike, Led, TK, can I have my podium back now?

    ...and my soap box...  Thanks

  24. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    I can't agree with you from my end.... But at least you know my reasons why...

    Good discussing things with you Led...


    You can have your box back Mikel....

    Take care

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Mike, but I think it died...

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        and tk and led just keep adding insult to injury...

        you guys do know you can start your own threads about this other topic your so set on discussing here right??

 
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