How is this going to help anyone? We'll be forced to buy heath insurance or we'll be fined. I'll bet we'll be paying for more than ourselves. If the poor need assitance to get shelter and food how in the hell are they going to pay for their insurance? I know who will pay! If we have to pay for our insurance and the ones who can't pay we'll need help with shelter and food! What say you?
I don't know much about this health system, but when health systems are forced upon you, you can be sure it's going to be easy for you to die soon !
Well lets just hope theres a way to end suffering without letting people die or bankrupting everyone.
I say that self-proclaimed christians should be all in favour of helping those less fortunate than themselves.
If you can afford health-care insurance, you should have it. There will be provisions in this bill that can help the poor acquire coverage if they truly cannot afford it.
That's easy to answer-- all of us who can afford our own can certainly afford to pay for a few others as well.
Not difficult at all, especially when you are forced to do so.
I understand you don't want to be forced to. Don't blame you.
Personally, I don't have a problem helping pay for a system that could prevent several thousands of people a year from dying because they don't have access to medical care.
But then, that's just me.
The mandate to buy insurance is equivalent to slavery!
Remember the slaves were given food, shelter, housing and health care in exchange for labor. Nobody asked them if they would be ok with that arrangement, and I suppose you can argue the wealthy plantation owners acted on their behalf for their own good!
Ironically, this is the same argument the President is using to sell us this horrific plan, which even the CBO says will cost most Americans more than they are paying now.
The government's main responsibility is to keep us free, to protect individual freedom. Their action to impose this plan upon Americans is completely at odds with their constitutional responsibility. Essentially, the President is trading away my freedom and yours, for what he views as a "common good."
"...equivalent to slavery!"
Oh my. I'd better prepare, because from what I learned about slavery, if you are right, then as soon as this health care bill is passed, I won't be able to own my own home, my kids will be auctioned off to the highest bidder, and I won't be allowed to vote!
[Runs screaming from the room to get her pistol in panicked last-ditch effort to prevent the government from taking her house and kids. Screw that voting thing.]
Looking forward to being forced to pay ($) to be a citizen of your country?
Such dramatics. I already pay taxes, don't you?
Too much, while something approaching half the population does not. Here we have a case not of the government taxing our income but forcing us to purchase a product.
Half the population can barely afford to put a roof over their heads and meals on the table; many of our seniors have to make the choice between their medication and food. You ought to be grateful you can afford to pay some taxes and not begrudge the poorest among us what little they have.
A mandate to buy insurance under the threat of jail is different than paying taxes. The government has a right and the power to levy and collect taxes, it does not have the right to trade your freedom for what it considers to be a benefit to you.
If you can afford health-care you need to have it. The same thing applies for car insurance.
No one wants to pick up the tab for you if you do not have health-care insurance but need expensive health-care in the near future...
If you cannot afford it, provisions will be included to help you acquire coverage.
No one has to buy car insurance!! I know plenty of people who do not own cars.
You're correct. If you do not have a vehicle. However, everyone gets sick and will need treatment from time to time... Likewise, you need to buy health insurance if you can afford it.
What if the person could cover all their medical costs out of pocket?
If they could what are the odds they will pay for a medical policy at a one or few hundreds of dollars a month instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars out of their own pocket for expensive surgery or recurring treatment.
If you have that much money available, I am pretty sure you also have measures in place to protect your wealth such as insurance.
Or simply pay cash, no? I' need to pay for 3 other peoples health care, I get it! You don't pay taxes do you, if you did you would not be for this bill!
I paid more than the $9K in federal taxes you stated you paid on one of your posts.
Taxes and death are here to stay. Likewise, I compute my after-tax pay. If I want more after-tax pay, I have to devise ways to increase my gross income.
I do not waste my time crying about paying taxes...
If you are a busy owner, you should want profitable top line or revenue growth. I laughed with several business owners stated that they did not want tax credits from Obama to hire. Instead they wanted more sales from customers on a consistent basis.
Who says I NEED to have it??? You??? The government??? Am I not capable of deciding for myself what I need???
Please wake up man!!!
The Obamagod knows what you need, follow the light, it will take you to Obamaland where everything is peachy keen!
I always wanted to be able to use peachy keen!
If you do not buy health insurance when you can afford it do not try to buck the system by seeking treatment when you need it... No one wants to pick up the tab for your expenses when the insurance company would have done so if you paid for a policy.
Are you kidding? That's exactly what this bill will allow by law
If all this crap (HMO's, gov't, stupid lawsuits, etc.) wasn't unnecessarily inflating the cost of health care, regular people could afford to go to the doctor when they needed to. They could afford preventative care as well.
Also, if there were educational programs and incentives in place about nutrition, natural remedies, and healthy living--people would be healthier overall.
You sound as though buying medical insurance is the only way to be healthy, and the fact that people actually believe that is a major part of the problem with this debate when there are SO many different routes to take it's ridiculous. We need to look at the way services are provided, the way providers are trained, the way we feed children, what's available over the counter...and so many other things than just insurance. The whole system is a mess, and I personally don't want to buy into it at all.
And for your information--I haven't been to a doctor in over four years. I also haven't been ill. I haven't required antibiotics or medications because I have my own. And when/if I get really sick (i.e., cancer, etc.) I intend to die in MY OWN HOME in MY OWN TIME without people poking me and prodding me and being hooked up to machines and running up a bill so high that no one can pay it. In other words, I'll be going with some dignity, thank you. So don't tell me I need to buy into anyone's crappy "health insurance." There IS no such thing has "health insurance." We're all going to die. Get over it.
PP..."as soon as this health care bill is passed, I won't be able to own my own home, my kids will be auctioned off to the highest bidder.....
We do Not own our Homes, property or even family members.
Think about it...you fail to pay taxes for Income Tax=Government will take it from you.
Fail to pay Property Tax even if you have "owned the house for decades, the Government takes it from you.
We own nothing, we are "'Leasing only" from the Government!
And as far as family...(Government can take your kids from you! Laws say for criminal act, but how many kids are removed from homes just because of accusations...and the kids suffer the most!)
Having worked for many years with families for a private agency in tandem with gov't agencies with the power to remove children, I can ASSURE you that NO ONE wastes the money it takes to remove children based solely on accusations. If you've heard stories like that, then the people telling them are suspect. If ANYTHING we had trouble getting children removed from places in which it was OBVIOUS that they needed to be removed. I promise you, the gov't does not want to take children away and pay anymore for them, and except in cases of the most obvious, disgusting abuse and neglect the state gives parents chance after chance to fix problems before terminating their parental rights.
I am not talking about wasting money for this issue, for it is a serious issue.
I am following the subject of Government being able to "take" from you what you believe to belong to you.
And I don't know about other states, but here I know of a teenager who accused a mother of abuse because she couldn't go out with a boyfriend. The cops arrived immediately and the mother was publicly shamed by the media. When the truth Finally came out.....No front Page Retraction there...was not BIG news.
But....this is for another thread. But you and I can agree that what you are speaking about is a real and serious issue.
It's definitely a serious issue, that we can agree upon, but I promise you it is a waste of the gov't's money to take away children who don't need to be taken away. I'm sure there have been mistakes, but I am also sure that for the most part people's parental rights are not terminated without a sufficient reason. Even in the case you mentioned "the truth came out." Yes, the person was crucified in the media (the gov't has nothing to do with that), but in the end her parental rights were NOT terminated. The gov't does NOT want to take care of unnecessary burdens, that's my only point.
While the gov't holds the power to do so, by enacting that power it takes on a burden it really doesn't want to bear. The only point is that I don't think we have to worry about the gov't taking our kids away if we don't jump on the health care bandwagon.
How about some good old Civil Disobedience? Peaceful protest?
I am for fixing the current problems with the Health Care Industry, but Not what is going on in Congress right now with this Bill.
And we know Who will end up Paying!!!!
I give to charities willingly, but I don't like being FORCED to do so!!
It's not "charity" if you are forced, it's a shakedown.
I agree. Willingly is always better choice. I couldn't help but post these pics. I used them in a blog earlier this evening on another site.
I hear you. Our taxes go for many things that I personally would rather not pay for, like an ill-conceived invasion of a foreign county on false pretenses.
I don't know, paying for someone to receive health care who otherwise couldn't afford it seems like a worthwhile investment compared to that.
Sounds like you are against the Iraq War, not in favor of obamacare
But do you actually pay taxes? Federal taxes? I am one of the unfortunate ones who hasn't had a refund in 25 years. The refunds I did get were for about 200 Dollars, I paid over 8 Grand this year, I mind a great deal having to pay for more people!
Ouch, that's a lot. You must have a business you own.
Yes, I pay federal taxes. It doesn't bother me to contribute.
I agree with you on that point, PP. I don't like funding an endless war, either!
Health Care debate
If there was a debate regarding the healthcare bill,there wouldn't be 60% of the people not favoring the bill in its present form. President Obama and the majority leaders have not allowed the opposition party to offer amendments to the bill.The democrats had a super majority and could have passed the bill hence there was no bipartisan participation by the minority party.
The president complained that the republicans were holding up passage of the healthcare reform bill when that statement was untrue.
Today president Obama presented his ''health reform insurance ''bill and ended his presentation with ''let's get it done ''. The American people do not want this bill because it will raise the deficit,raise taxes and is not in the best interest of the people in these troubled times.
The people want jobs,not an increase in government union jobs but jobs in the private sector.Unemployment stands at 9.7%.
The stimulus bill ( $787 billion ) passed in 2009 ,not even read by our elected officials,was to jump start the economy and to provide jobs.News media reports so much of the money is waste and not producing jobs.
Congress and president Obama has yet to deliver those promised jobs in 13 months.Today only have of the money has been spent on saving public union jobs and bailing out state governments.
We all can agree that the cost of healthcare insurance has to be fixed.Take note that the US healthcare system is the best in the world and that everyone has access to the system.
Let's face it,the government is the problem and we the people need to make our elected officials accountable for the mess that the country is in.
The growing deficit will destroy the economy and the nation if we allow our politicians to ignore the people.
Well said John. His speech today was the inspiration behind the photos I created. I don't trust Obama. He is showing true colors now since those opposed to His plan didn't fall in line with his way of thinking.
The CBO stated that the stimulus bill created up to 2.1 million jobs and most economists agree that it boosted the economy.
All of the stimulus has not been spent and the CBO believes it will have a greater impact this year.
I wish it would hurry up then. Another plant announced closing down and laying off all workers yesterday here. Seems to be a weekly news event.
The government alone cannot create jobs. The government is trying to keep the economy afloat until the other two pillars of spending, business and consumer spending returns...
You have to give it some time since we are facing the greatest economic crisis since the 1930s...
"The CBO stated that the stimulus bill created up to 2.1 million jobs"
It hasn't 'created' anything but fraud and waste.
Darth Vader Cheney, could you provide some supporting details for your statement?
TORT reform does anyone believe that this could lower the cost of health care in America?
Why can't we buy insurance across state lines? This would sure lower costs due to the competition.
We can sure accept credit cards across state lines that is why the credit card companies bill you from the states with the highest allowed interest rates.
what about this...
Democrats and Republicans agree -- the health care status quo isn't working for the American people.
Health insurance is growing more and more expensive by the day. Too many of us can't afford it -- not middle class families, not businesses, not the Federal Government. Insurance companies have too much control over health care decisions that should be left between a patient and their doctor. They freely ration care based on who's sick and who's healthy; who can pay and who can't.
On both sides of the aisle, we all agree that if we do nothing, the problem will just get worse. Now, after a long and wrenching debate, it's time to make a decision. Yesterday, President Obama called on the United States Congress to cast a final up or down vote on health insurance reform in the coming weeks and pledged to fight for it every day until that happens.
Watch what the President said yesterday and learn more about what's at stake:
The President's final plan for health insurance reform puts control of health care where it belongs -- in the hands of American families and small businesses, not health insurance companies or government.
His proposal takes the best Republican and Democratic ideas and changes three main things about the current health care system:
It ends the worst insurance company practices and outlaws discrimination against Americans with pre-existing conditions.
It reduces costs for people with insurance and makes coverage more affordable for people without it today.
It sets up a new competitive insurance marketplace where small business owners and families can shop for the insurance plan that works best for them, giving them the same buying power and insurance choices as all members of Congress.
We've debated the issue of health insurance reform thoroughly, not just over the past year, but over decades. It's time to make a decision about how to finally reform health care so that it works for America's families and businesses -- not just for insurance companies.
Let's get it done.
Director, White House Office of Health Reform
What is Nancy-Ann DeParle on? Don't want to take that pill!
Please provide your health-care reform ideas that are better?
I don't have better ideas, but I do know that what's been proposed won't do what the President says, that all of it is based on lies starting with the cost.
This is supposed to cost 1 trillion over ten years. That's true except no one will get any benefits from this bill for 5 years, so the real cost when fully operational will be more like 2.5 trillion.
Keep in mind, this is only an estimate and I'm willing to bet it will be 4 times that amount! Look at the Iraq war, estimated to be 250 billion. It's over a trillion now and still on going!
Show me one estimate in the last 50 years where the government met or came in under budget!
This bill is about control and power. It's about the government setting up a new society a new economy led by government not by the free market! If we allow government to do this we will be finished as a free capitalistic society!
I have sent them more than once to my Legislator. Obviously I received no return comment.
And where does it say in this BILL that we will receive the same coverage as Congress?
I sure did not see that in it.
It says exactly the opposite. Congress and the prez would be exempt.
I am for Reforming the Health Care System! I am not for This Bill being pushed through.
This Bill does not fix the real issue of cost of health care. Sure, it will help to disallow dropping people with pre-existing health issues, but it will not Stop Insurance and the Health Industry from continuing to Raise the costs or premiums to enrich themselves at the expense of the people.
Increase premiums hikes will be addressed by the final reconciliation bill. "Obama's plan would give the federal government new authority to block excessive rate increases by health insurance companies."
Yeah "excessive" rate increases... the health insurance industry currently makes a profit of about 3.5%, is that excessive?
You just don't get it! They want CONTROL and they are using health care to get it! You're just a pawn in their game!
"Capitalism is the uneven sharing of blessings. Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
He may be talking about the reconciliation bill that both the Senate and House will pass to make changes to the Senate health-care bill after it is passed by the House.
Last Thursday's first-of-its-kind summit capped off a debate that has lasted nearly a year. Every idea has now been put on the table. Every argument has been made. Both parties agree that the status quo is unacceptable and gets more dire each day. Today, I want to state as clearly and forcefully as I know how: Now is the time to make a decision about the future of health care in America.
The final proposal I've put forward draws on the best ideas from all sides, including several put forward by Republicans at last week's summit. It will put Americans in charge of their own health care, ensuring that neither government nor insurance company bureaucrats can ration, deny, or put out of financial reach the care our families need and deserve.
I strongly believe that Congress now owes the American people a final vote on health care reform. Reform has already passed the House with bipartisan support and the Senate with a super-majority of sixty votes. Now it deserves the same kind of up-or-down vote that has been routinely used and has passed such landmark measures as welfare reform and both Bush tax cuts.
Earlier today, I asked leaders in both houses of Congress to finish their work and schedule a vote in the next few weeks. From now until then, I will do everything in my power to make the case for reform. And now, I'm asking you, the members of the Organizing for America community, to raise your voice and do the same.
The final march for reform has begun, and your participation is crucial. Please commit to join with me to take reform across the finish line.
Essentially, my proposal would change three things about the current health care system:
First, it would protect all Americans from the worst practices of insurance companies. Never again will the mother with breast cancer have her coverage revoked, see her premiums arbitrarily raised, or be forced to live in fear that a pre-existing condition will bar her from future coverage.
Second, my proposal would give individuals and small businesses the same choice of private health insurance that members of Congress get for themselves. And my proposal says that if you still can't afford the insurance in this new marketplace, we will offer you tax credits based on your income -- tax credits that add up to the largest middle class tax cut for health care in history.
Finally, my proposal would bring down the cost of health care for everyone -- families, businesses, and the federal government -- and bring down our deficit by as much as $1 trillion over the next two decades. These savings mean businesses small and large will finally be freed up to create jobs and increase wages. With costs currently skyrocketing, reform is vital to remaining economically strong in the years and decades to come.
In the few crucial weeks ahead, you can help make sure this proposal becomes law. Please sign up to join the Organizing for America campaign in the final march for reform:
When I talked about change on the campaign, this is what I was talking about: coming together to solve a huge problem that has been troubling America for 100 years and standing up to the special interests to deliver a brighter, smarter future for generations to come.
I look forward to signing this historic reform into law. And when I do, it will be because your organizing played an essential role in making change possible.
President Barack Obama"
Rest assured, the congress isn't going to be covered under any new health care bill, and the unions will also be exempt! The rest of us will get the shaft, business as usual in Washington!
I have no doubt that a few million people will benefit from passage of this bill, but the majority of Americans, will not and they won't pay less, they will pay more! CBO estimates health care costs will continue to rise at 8% per year after 2019, that's a year AFTER the full benefits of the health care bill will go into effect.
Remember too that assumptions about the economy and inflation could be way off! There is a looming commercial real estate crash heading our way starting in 2011, The loose fed policy and unprecedented expansion of the money supply by more than 120% also poses a huge inflation risk. With the collapse of Greece's economy and a number of European countries on the verge of default we can expect the effects to at least stunt our growth and possibly edge us closer to a default or as a minimum a downgrade of our debt!
The bottom line is Obama already has more balls in the air then he can juggle and he's looking to throw up a few more. At some point he's going to be unable to preform and all those balls are going to come crashing down.
We have to crawl before we walk. Walk before we run.
We will make adjustments and new additions over time as needed to ensure that health-care coverage for almost (if not) all Americans is the best, efficient, and economical.
Are you sure you're not Alice from wonderland?
Pick a government entitlement program, any program. I don't think you can find a single one that isn't in financial trouble.
Social Security - insolvent
Post Office- 7 billion in debt
Fannie & Freddie Mac - 7 trillion in unfunded liabilities and recently part of the bail out
It goes on and on. The government is a self perpetuating black hole for capital constantly interfering in the lives of Americans claiming with fals concerns that it must solve our problems when it's sole interest is to grow itself!
Add the cost of the futile Iraq War and rich tax cuts to the list which decreased revenue tremendously helping to result in insufficient funding for the other programs.
Clinton - increased revenue that cover expenses resulting in a surplus
Bush W - reduced revenue while increasing costs resulting in a deficit and helping to contribute to the mess we are in now.
Clinton did a great job after the people in 1994 elected a republican congress to help him.When clinton took office he promised to balance the budget in 8 years but with the republicans they did in 4 years.
The budget surplus was a 10 year projection not a actual number.
Bush when he took office the nation was in a recession ( he didn't complain about Clinton ) 9 months later the 9-11 disaster, the economy went back into the dumps.
Before bush left office, money coming into the treasury was the most ever.
The past stories go on and on.one excuse after the other,and bush is gone.
The Dem's took over congress in 2007 unemployment 4.6%,in 2008 6.4% and in dec 2009 9.7%. and climbing.
Obama and congress wasted 14months playing with the healthcare bill,failed to do the first thing for the American people.The jobs he promised when the stimulus was approved,where are they ?
This Health Care Bill was voted on during Christmas.
Died after the Ma senete election.
Will be reborn over Easter.
by Georgiakevin 10 years ago
I simply do not understand why people are fighting health care reform. I have heard the arguments against it and I keep saying how is that worse than being held hostage by the insurance companies? My insurance cost keeps going and in turn I get less and less coverage. They say the govt run...
by Peeples 7 years ago
Curious as to what people who are against everyone having healthcare think should be done for those who really can't afford healthcare. What are the other options? Continue down the same road we are on now?
by Kathryn L Hill 4 years ago
If we do not repeal Obama Care...what will happen to the nation?Will we ever enjoy the same amount of liberty that we had before?For instance, I was fined $200.00 for not having health insurance.I know others who were fined $400.00 this year. Next year we will be fined even more. How much more we...
by rhamson 10 years ago
The congress seems determined to pass some healtcare legislation whether good or bad depending on who you ask. With costs skyrocketing as much as 100% in the last three years for some, can we afford to say no and wait until another administration takes a stab at it?
by Poppa Blues 10 years ago
This article is worth reading because it explains clearly why the claims about the health care bill crafted by Obama is nothing but LIES!March 13, 2010The Big Lie of Health Care ReformBy Robert GelinasOne-Sixth of the US Economy is threatened with a takeover by the Federal Government on the...
by leeberttea 9 years ago
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release … 303313.htmAn independent study of compliant and non- compliant insurance companies has found that compliance with the new health care reform laws could lead to bankruptcy of insurers.Ah! Everything is going according to Obama's plans!
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