What does on-demand abortion have to do with healthcare?

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   sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago

   Other than rape, incest and the life of the mother what does an elective procedure have to do with healthcare? Are we going to have to pay for cosmetic surgery also? Abortion is represented as a womans right to choose that would mean it's not a medical necessity.

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      IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You're absolutely correct, Sneak. There is way abortions should be allowed under the Healthcare plan.
      In the UK, people can get abortions, plastic surgery, stomach stapling, sex changes and IVF treatment under the NHS, and they wonder why they have run out of money to pay for life-saving medications or treatment for sick people??

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   JeanMeriamposted 13 years ago

   I just read a news article about women/girls of India getting their abortions in back alleys and dying. The one girl this was particularly about was a 14 year old whose father had died and left the family in abject poverty. The girl began prostituting herself to feed her mother and siblings. She became pregnant and got a back alley abortion, wounds, an infection and then died.
   
   Abortion is going to happen. It's been happening forever. Should both mother and child die as happens in so many cases of illegal abortion because there is no safe legal alternative? Especially when so many of these mothers are children themselves?
   
   There is ideal. But the fact is we live in reality and women and girls are going to abort.

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      sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Do I have to pay for it?

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         JeanMeriamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think that's just the way it is with insurance. We all take a share in the risk others take. Overweight people get diabetes. Smokers get cancer. I'm sure it pisses off the supremely healthy and risk free to pay equally, but they could get hit by a car while walking across the street.

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   IzzyMposted 13 years ago

   So you're saying Amercians are as poor as many Indians? That the girl couldn't get an abortion in America? I believe being only 14 years of age, she would have no problem under Healthcare even if they hadn't bent over backwards to help the abortion movement.
   A child shouldn't be having a child.
   
   You've used an argument that is at the outer limit of what is acceptable in a civilised society.
   It is your everyday, perfectly healthy, 18 - 28 year olds who are having abortions because a baby wouldn't suit their lifestyle types who are gong to bleed Healthcare dry with their repeat visits instead of taking contraceptives.

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      JeanMeriamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know that that happens so much. There was an abortion clinic in Edmonton when I was there years ago and as we drove by we saw mostly teenage girls. But I could be wrong. I don't know all the circumstances surrounding abortion.
      
      What I'm saying is abortion is not as superficial a choice as getting your nose done. There are often very good reasons for it. Maybe whether it is covered should be on a case by case basis.

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         sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         .......by an appropriate medical authority.

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         IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         According to the other posters here it is not covered by the Healthcare Bill except in special cases, which most teenagers won't be covered by, I suspect.
         
         I dunno the answer, I really don't. In the Uk kids gets sex education, they get free contraceptives and they are still queueing up in greater numbers then ever before for an abortion on demand.

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   habeeposted 13 years ago

   I didn't think abortions were covered??

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      Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      See, yer problem is, you have introduced a fact into a sneako thread.  Facts have no place here, only dogma and glennrushitty B.S. are required in such a thread.

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   Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

   It isn't from what I heard. And sometimes abortions are a medical necessity...

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      IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I thought that was how the Bill got pushed through, by giving in to the abortion demands?
      Maybe I got that wrong.
      Yeah sometimes it is a necessity, but it's not another form of contraceptive, that's all I'm saying. In the UK it is used as a ceontraceptive by the majority.

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         Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I definitely agree but many of the anti-abortionists are also against young girls and boys getting birth control. Many don't even want them to have sex education.

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            JeanMeriamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            This was what I was reading about. There is a large religious movement to also not allow birth control. It can't be both ways.

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               sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               One thought, "Chastity harnesses!" Rope that pony and lock the barn doors!

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                  JeanMeriamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  sneakrocksolid, do you not get out much? The world is not so black and white. As a Christian man I am sure you know there is a great deal in this world that shouldn't happen that happens. People, especially young people often find themselves in circumstances they didn't plan on being in. Kids go to a party have a few drinks, things happen. Gang girls are forced into all kinds of stuff. There are girls in North America who get forced into prostitution by their families.
                  
                  It's just really not pretty out there right now. And like I said, we live in reality and have to deal with reality.

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                     sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I just feel restraint and self control would be the optimum solution.

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                        IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You have a point there. I have long thought that teaching a girl how to say no would be more effective than any other form of contraceptive.
                        Too many teenagers feel pressurised into having sex before they are ready by society and by their peers.
                        Schoold teach sex education but don't teach the emotional aspect of opting out.

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                           sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           We do need to support our young women and men. We shouldn't give-up and say its going to happen so don't worry about it. We have the responsibilities as parents to help our young ones make good choices.

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                              JeanMeriamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I agree with you sneak, but we can only teach that to our own kids. We have no control over anyone else's children.

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                        Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Like bondage you mean?

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                  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  If only your parents had listened!

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            IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That's crazy.
            It's all very well saying don't have sex before you are married, but do they listen??
            Better they are protected.

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   Doug Hughesposted 13 years ago

   Elective abortions are not covered. The limitations of the Hyde Amendment apply. There can be coverage in the case of rape or incest or to save the life of the mother.
   
   There was an attempt to extend the scope of the Hyde Amendment by Bart Stupek. What women CAN do, and Stupek wanted to prevent, is purchase a 'rider' - an additional contract. This contract, paid for with personal funds - not federal money - could add to the insurance that they bought with the help of a federal subsidy. Stupek claimed to control almost a dozen democrats who were opposed to abortion.
   
   What this group tried to do is hold the health and in some cases, the very lives, of 32 million Americans hostage, in an attempt to override Roe V Wade. They failed. So elective abortion is NOT allowed, but a woman can purchase coverage with her own money that can include elective abortion.
   
   What's interesting is that Stupek relented in the final hours and his group did cast the deciding votes FOR health care. I do thank him for that, but one GOP lunatic called Stupek 'baby killer' on the floor of the House. Not even remotely true.

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      sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't believe the amending is thru. Vague as the information is about the bill and possible loop holes I don't think thats completely decided. Who is going to pay for the abortions for those who can't pay for additional coverage? Do you think they'll just deny them the procedure? I would hope so but, I'm sure that won't be the case.

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         Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         YOu can believe in the tooth fairy for all I care.
         
         The law is the law. Health Care Reform, as passed into law this week does NOT pay for elective abortions.

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            sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Well I'll hold my tongue now, just don't disapear when the dust settles.

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   sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago

   I would prefer they wait for marraige and then the abortion issue would not be an issue. Boys and girls birth control, I am so glad I didn't have to worry about that! Age appropreiate sex education in a health class would be fine but "how to" not so much. Abortion is not a good method of birth control and should be limited to a very serious situation monitored by the correct medical authority. A serious situation does not include bad or irresponsible behavior.

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      IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So married women don't get abortions??

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         Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Married women (to 'true' conservatives) are breeding animals. Gettng married sanctifies their status in the eyes of God and the gubmint.
         
         Neandertahals among us.

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            sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Nice, thats so progressive of you.

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         sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         None I would know personally. Thats not how we do buisness. Our son is a very good Christian man and he decided it wasn't right on his own. We just loved him and taught him to respect others and himself.
         
         The only reason someone I know,that is married, would have an abortion would be a matter of life and death. That should always be the main consideration. Convience is never a good excuse.

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