What does the Taliban have on Texas?

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  1. Credence2 profile image77
    Credence2posted 13 months ago

    WHen my wife and I had to decide where to live on the mainland once we left Hawaii, I told her Texas was definitely off of my list. That annoying in your face conservatism and arrogant rightwing advocacy made the place more uninhabitable than the moon. And from my perspective, Florida is no nirvana, but, still, it is not Texas, yet.

    They lived down to my worst expectations.

    What the story about this new anti-abortion law of theirs?


    A little background::

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ … uth-dakota

    https://www.npr.org/2021/09/01/10332021 … ppens-next


    We are talking about having neighbors, complete strangers turn in anyone they suspect is aiding or assisting a woman in pursuit of an abortion. What if I decided to help a woman under the terms of Roe vs Wade obtain an abortion outside of this cretin state, could I still be sued? With a $10,000.00 bounty, imagine the depth and breath of the assorted scum that will rise to the challenge.

    As the article says many of the woman carrying fetuses may well be unaware of their pregnancy. The whole idea of this "reporting" reeks of fascism and Nazism. No exemption for rape or incest? But, again this is Texas and this is typical.

    Other crimson red states seeks to duplicate what has happened in Texas. I can't imaging the anxiety of our modern maidens that have the misfortune of living there. Your neighbors are watching and sticking their noses in a business that was completely legal under Roe vs Wade.

    You right winged oriented women  by supporting Trump and the right wing tribunal that is to pass for the Supreme Court who chose to stick its head in the sand, will now get what you deserve and what you asked for.

    Fembots, incubation machines, rightnow. Many other impositions are planned to make control of your reproduction processes just the beginning on a slippery slope.

    So, for you anti choice people, what is Texas going to do to stop women from going to Mexico or more progressive states, like nearby Colorado or even California. How far
    will they go?

    1. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Texas can do nothing to stop a woman from traveling out of the state to obtain an abortion in another state or country.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
        Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Some women need to murder their conceived child.
        At conception, the spark of a human begins its formation.
        If it were not for the spark, the fetus would not proceed with the life set in motion by the contact of sperm and ovum. And that is science.
        An abortion is murder, since conception / LIFE is halted.

        What if a man knew the woman he impregnated would go to jail for murdering this life?
        Would he be so enthusiastic to have random hookups?
        Would a woman?

        There are legal consequences for murder, after all.

        1. gmwilliams profile image84
          gmwilliamsposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          No woman should ever endure an UNINTENDED, UNWANTED pregnancy.  That is THE HEIGHT of barbarism.   I am pro-choice 100%.   Before legalized abortion, girls/women who became accidentally pregnant had to (1) undergo secret, even dangerous abortions, (2) had children they didn't want-curtailing, even short circuiting their lives or abusing the children because they DIDN'T want them.    I believe in a woman's right to a safe abortion.  I believe that ALL children should be planned/wanted.  That is all I have to say in the matter.  Any woman who is against abortion is a gender traitor.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image74
            Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Agree

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
          Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Kathryn, I buy your thoughts completely.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
            Kathryn L Hillposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            The price to play for an abortion would be jail time.
            Man, would you think twice about having sex outside of a marriage situation!

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              "The price to play(pay?) for an abortion would be jail time(term?)." You're reading much to crack your brain? Lol! That I agree.                                      But seriously, abortion is murder. When you kill a person, what do the law said? Your life goes for the life you take away! But a Judge can be lenient and commute the death sentense to life or lesser options.                                      Yep, what d'you thought?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
                Kathryn L Hillposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                - well, yes. Lets say she spends a year in "jail." Lets say, she is educated there concerning the development of embryo, fetus, infant and all aspects of child development. She would receive training in Science, Nutrition, First Aid and CPR. After all, if she is so unlucky to get pregnant, she might need a little remedial help in life. She would be expected to take tests and receive passing scores.

                This year of confinement and education after an abortion would be a very valuable experience. The so-called jail could be more of a center where a girl is restricted in freedom, but not treated too badly. It would not be a real jail, but a modified detention facility with many suitable features. (Not comfortable enough to encourage the getting of abortions for the purpose  being taken care of, though.)

                Failing the tests would not be punishable, but passing the tests would surely provide these unlucky females certain advantages on their resumes. Who would resent the opportunity to jumpstart one's path toward higher education, employment or motherhood?

                What if the female who murdered her child is quite educated and successful? Oh well, she is treated like any other unlucky (murdering) female. Pass the tests, get the Certificate.
                One Size would Fit All. big_smile

                Yes?

            2. Credence2 profile image77
              Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              I say "COYOTE".

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Credence, I need enlightening of "COYETE".

                1. Credence2 profile image77
                  Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics  is COYOTE

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Thanks. But how relevant is it here?

              2. gmwilliams profile image84
                gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                +100000000.

        3. peterstreep profile image81
          peterstreepposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Tell that to a woman who has been raped.

          1. gmwilliams profile image84
            gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Thank you.

      2. peterstreep profile image81
        peterstreepposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        But they should not have a reason to do so. Or should they?

        1. gmwilliams profile image84
          gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Exactly, women shouldn't have to go to another state to get an abortion.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image74
            Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Actually the Government has no say what we can do with our own bodies, including religions.

            They screw with us anywhere, those greedy power hungry bastards.

            1. peterstreep profile image81
              peterstreepposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              I thought the US was the land of the free. But apparently not for women living in Texas.

              1. Live to Learn profile image75
                Live to Learnposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Had the left considered reasonable restrictions Texas probably wouldn’t have gone that path but when well placed democrats insist there should be absolutely no restrictions on abortion, even up to and through the last trimester, laws like this one being tried out are inevitable.

                1. peterstreep profile image81
                  peterstreepposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  If...
                  The fact is...
                  To different things.
                  The Republicans made these restrictions, they didn't have to do it. You can always find an external excuse Live to Learn.

                2. Credence2 profile image77
                  Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  100 percent pure bullsh*t, absolutely pure.

                  Refuge of a typical rightwinger, hide and make excuses for the tyrant and tyrannical behavior that support your attitudes and values, having nothing to do with a balanced observation.

                  No use in your even pretending neutrality on the issues of the day L to L when you make silly admissions like you just did here.

                  Is this just one of the many symptoms of Rightwinger madness disease?

                  (RMD)

                  1. Live to Learn profile image75
                    Live to Learnposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    I’m not sure what caused you to come back with that but, seriously. If one side refuses to be reasonable why would one expect the other far end to come out with different behavior?

                    I don’t agree with the Texas law but I can certainly see how we’ve come to this. Instead of accusing me of madness maybe listening and attempting to see where another human being is coming from would be the better option? I will say, you used to display an ability to do that and I miss it.

            2. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
              Kathryn L Hillposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              They would/could not do this if there were no Covid 19 issues to deal with.
              They overstep in the name of getting the country back into gear economically and financially.
              I understand the basis of their insistence.

              But is it constitutional?
              NO

    2. peterstreep profile image81
      peterstreepposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      When the penalty for aborting after rape is more severe than the penalty for rape, that's when you know it's a war on women.

      There is no excuse. This is Taliban behavior.  Men deciding how women should live their lives.

      1. gmwilliams profile image84
        gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        AMEN.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      A federal judge denied a Department of Justice request to block enforcement of the controversial Texas abortion law.

      "[T]his case presents complex, important questions of law that merit a full opportunity for the parties to present their positions to the Court," wrote United States District Judge Robert Pitman in a one-page decision Thursday. "Accordingly, IT IS ORDERED that the United States’ Opposed Motion for Expedited Briefing Schedule, (Dkt. 13), is DENIED."

      The DOJ had asked the judge to grant a temporary restraining order or injunction in an effort to block the state from enforcing the law that effectively bans all abortions in Texas, prohibiting the procedure from roughly six weeks into pregnancy.  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/judge- … ortion-law

      The ruling comes two weeks after the Supreme Court voted in a 5-4 decision to let the Texas law remain in force, denying an emergency appeal from abortion providers to stay the law until legal challenges can be brought.

  2. Credence2 profile image77
    Credence2posted 13 months ago

    Thanks to both Kathryn and Sharlee for sharing their opinions on this matter.

    I am glad that I was not born a woman.

    I would be P.oed all the time just thinking about a entire world dominated by a tyrannical patriarchy. And to think that so many go along with the "system" to get what crumbs fall, seeking to gain favor with their "masters", regardless of sacrifices to individualism and self esteem.

    Obviously, the conservative oriented women has long made peace with that status quo. As long as I am not required to participate in my own denigration, it need not concern me, I guess.

    "Only Women Bleed" Alice Cooper-1975

    1. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Women have the right to safe abortions.   No woman should ever have to endure an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy which has deep psychic effects on her as well as the child.  Women's lives have been immeasurably better because of the access to legal abortion.   They can continue their lives.  They don't have to have a child that they didn't want.  Since no birth control method is 100%, abortion is a viable option.  Women have the unmitigated right to reproductive freedom.

      1. Credence2 profile image77
        Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

        It is good that you advocate rights and freedom in this case.

        I find it hard to believe that you can adhere to rightwing values as closely as you do, yet can allow for even this exception.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Conservatives are only right "all the time" relative to liberals.  In truth they make mistakes and have some bad values too - just at a fraction of the rate liberals do.  This is common knowledge, at least among conservatives...who are not known for blind acquiescence nearly as much a liberals.

          1. Credence2 profile image77
            Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            That, sir,  is debatable. Of course, conservatives believe they are always right and infallible.

            Well, we don't agree and that is the "rub", isn't it.

            1. wilderness profile image94
              wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              LOL  Thought you'd enjoy that.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image74
                Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Glad I am an anarchist, don't have to conflict constantly with my alter ego.

              2. Credence2 profile image77
                Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I did....

                1. Castlepaloma profile image74
                  Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  You become an anarchist?

                  1. Credence2 profile image77
                    Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    No, not really....

    2. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Not sure you got the meant context of my comment. I was simply answering your question literally.

      It well appears you are compartmentalizing. My view on abortion is complicated. You see I am a conservative, and I do keep conservative values --- however, I mix my beliefs with reality. I am a conservative woman, but I am also a nurse. I have over many many years witnessed botched abortions, due to women for one reason or another not wanting the child. I have also been witness to child abuse, add incest to the mix, and rape. There are circumstances where having a child is just so unfair to the child...and if incest or rape is involved it's unfair to the mother and the child.

      So yes, I believe in abortion.

      Being a woman, I can also tell you I never got pregnant unless I wanted to. So, for the women that have abortions due to unprotected sex, for the most part, I look at that, and to be kind --- lack of intelligence. Today one has so many birth control options.  I am always amazed at women that make the claim that they need to be the one to make decisions in regard to their health and their own bodies. Abortion is a very evasive procedure that offers a small chance of infertility, which increases if abortions are done repeatedly.  Just seems a poor option for birth control in my view.

      So, in the end, it would appear as a conservative woman who my own life experience to conclude abortion in the early embryonic state can be merciful.  The moms that are aware of all the different forms of birth control but just don't use them   Oh well I will keep that opinion to myself.

      1. wilderness profile image94
        wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        "The moms that don't know how to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies"

        There are precious few couples in this country, or even in the world, that do not know how to protect against unwanted pregnancies.  Perhaps 2 couples in the country...or perhaps less.

        It is not a matter of ignorance, then.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image83
          Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          I worded that wrong... I should have said --- The moms that are aware of all the different forms of birth control but just don't use them   Oh well I will keep that opinion to myself.  I will change it. Because I agree that any intelligent woman is aware of all the various birth control out there.

          No, it is not a matter of ignorance. That's why I stopped short with my opnion.

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
          Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Peer pressure? Just curious.

          1. wilderness profile image94
            wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Possible.  More likely is the "it won't happen to me!" attitude.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              I Agree.

      2. Credence2 profile image77
        Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

        So, based on your comment can I presume that you disagree with the Texas law? Seems like an arrogant disposition on the part of the state of Texas.

        Why would they be satisfied just in restricting abortion facilities within their jurisdiction, rather than control any option for the women that live there?

        This a conservative initiative, totally.

        Control of reproductive rights where men are not subjected to the same scrutiny is the beginning of the erosion of women's rights in the state. I hope that the fair maidens of Texas are aware of this.

        the Rightwinger must be brought to heel in this aspect as well as many others.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image83
          Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          I don't approve of the law as written.

          It would appear the law makes no exceptions for cases involving rape or incest. I feel this should have been addressed, and some exceptions were made in the case of rape or incest. These both add a psychological aspect to the pregnancy. It would not be unusual for a woman or teen female child to hide the fact that they were raped or experienced incest. So the six weeks would most likely be problematic for them.

          I see the Texas new law bans abortion as soon as the cardiac activity is detectable. That's around six weeks, which is before a lot of women know that they're pregnant. I think 8 weeks would be more appropriate.

          This given time might even work to decrease abortions in some cases. Just giving the woman a bit more time to think carefully about the
          decision.

          1. wilderness profile image94
            wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            I have never been able to understand the rationale behind abortion being murder, but murdering a child innocent of any possible wrongdoing, because the mother might feel bad carrying it to term, is OK.  Bad feelings, depression, etc. do not trump taking someone's life.

            But that's just my opinion - it is quite possible that if I was the victim of rape or incest, carrying the rapists child, I could and would rationalize killing that child.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
              Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Terrific and awful. These rapists and incest workers should likewise have their life flushed out of them. It does matter whether they're men or women.

  3. lobobrandon profile image89
    lobobrandonposted 12 months ago

    Everyone here seems to be debating on the pretext of it being murder or not. The thing is the conservatives who are for this bill are mostly in it to have control over women. A big chunk of those who support this do not care whether the child or mother survives once the child is born or the kind of life the child will lead. All their worry about the kid ends the moment it is not directly linked to the mother they want to control.

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Conservative aside, I care for the mother; the unborn fetus, whether it's life or not.                                            What's an unwanted pregnancy, or an unwanted child? Because you don't plan well for the pleasure act? By goodness sake, avoid intercourse. There's no alternative.                                      Seriously, certain have an issue with their reproductive organs. They need a baby or two. If a parent has decide the prdgnancy is uwanted, why not let birth take place and those that want to adopt babes take care of the child with the co-operation of the law? Just my opinion and suggestion.

      1. Credence2 profile image77
        Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

        I don't know what the case is in your hemisphere. But trying to bottle up the sexual urge is an exercise in futility. Whether it is now or 100 years ago. It is an impulse, who can plan for that, especially for younger people? I was no better, but just lucky.

        It is unreasonable to ask a young girl to bear to term a child that is the product of rape or incest. I don't like the idea of abortion any more than you do. But, fair is fair.

        But Roe vs Wade made the balance between the state's interests in preserving life that is viable beyond the womb and a society that condemns a women for getting pregnant and requiring her to bear to term based on conception around the Rightwinger view that the protoplasm at the beginning means treating women as dutiful incubators. Would you welcome that?

        Yes, COYOTE is appropriate in addressing Kathryn's rather morally priggish position, that is contrary to the reality that we face in today's world. Sex is primal and you cannot simply put a lid on it.

        1. gmwilliams profile image84
          gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          No women aren't incubators but human beings.  Again, no woman should be forcibly pregnant.    That is the height of utter barbarism.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image83
            Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Basically, I agree with you. But--- Has abortion become a form of birth control for some women?  Hear me out... As a nurse, I can tell you I became very friendly with some women that had 3 and  4 abortions, and I got to know the couple some of the women I speak of due to problems with their abortions, infection, bleeding, etc. One of the questions that are posed - Have you had other abortions and how many.

            Would it not be better to early on make sure women be educated on birth control?

            I think abortion does have its place.  But not sure as a woman I would want to be caught up in an unplanned pregnancy with all the birth control we have today. I think I would feel I did not protect my choice, myself.

            I always felt it smart to use birth control, and not face an unwanted pregnancy.

            At the same time, I realize unwanted sex such as rape or incest takes away a woman's choice completely, and I feel abortion is very appropriate.

            1. wilderness profile image94
              wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              "At the same time, I realize unwanted sex such as rape or incest takes away a woman's choice completely, and I feel abortion is very appropriate."

              I have never understood this, given that abortion is accepted as murder. Is it appropriate from the child's point of view?  Does an uncomfortable 9 months trump the child's right to life itself?

              Of course, if abortion is NOT murder then the question is moot up until that point in time that it becomes murder.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I can only give my thoughts on why I feel the mother should be given the choice to have an abortion due to rape or incest.
                If a woman consents to have sex, I would hope in most scenarios she realizes she could become pregnant. She takes the chance she could become pregnant. My true feeling is --- I think a woman exhibits intelligence when she takes the responsibility of not becoming pregnant when she does not want to.

                Incest or rape --- the woman is totally out of control of her body. All decision-making has been taken away.  I don't approve of casual abortion. I prefer women to take responsibility for their bodies and use birth control.

                Is abortion murder? Is purposely killing a human being?  Yes, it is. Not sure how it could be called anything else. Has society come to the point that the unborn have no say so?  Yes.

                So where from here? It is very apparent a large majority of women chose to look at life differently than the words -- murder, killing.  Many in our society have changed the words to --- right to choose.   This right covers them, their personal health, their body. What's been left out of the equation is the undeveloped life that needs their womb.

                Clinically when does it become murder? At the moment the child is aborted it dies as a rule. Myself, I could not conceive of having an abortion. But, it is very clear there is a segment of women that see little to no problem having an abortion.

                The subject is a very hard subject to discuss.

                1. wilderness profile image94
                  wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  "Is abortion murder? Is purposely killing a human being?  Yes, it is. Not sure how it could be called anything else. Has society come to the point that the unborn have no say so?  Yes."

                  Then, as far as I can see, the intentional, deliberate murder of a child conceived of rape or incest is still intentional, deliberate murder.  This is the part I simply cannot visualize; how does one go from murder to "not murder" because it was rape?  The reasoning, if any, makes no sense at all, and the child itself is simply shunted aside as if (as you point out) we give no say or rights to children in the womb.

                  Not trying to be argumentative; seriously searching for the rationale that turns that child into a "thing"...because of the father's actions.  This is perhaps the only place we visit the father's sins on the child, and that "visitation" results in executing a child that has done no wrong.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    You have brought up a very interesting valid point. One that needs to be addressed.

                    I think we all as individuals come to our views of abortion due to individual life experiences. So many variables to think about, to consider. I don't think many women that choose abortion look at the act as murder. IMO they don't let that part of the act slip into their minds.

                    I don't feel it is due to the actions of the father. I think it is the fear of bearing a child that was conceived in violence, and not in many cases even knowing who the father is. And literally not feeling they could care for our bond with the child, So the decision to do away with the child becomes almost a mercy.   

                    I do see your point that killing a child has done nothing. But in the case of rape, that child could actually become "a thing" that the mother just can't emotionally accept, due to the violence it was conceived under.

                  2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Are we leaning now into a state of barbaric or more of a mordernization?                                   Does the old time savage or barbaric tribes had this in common?                                      Apart from incest or rape? Certain girls consent to sex without realising the consequence of pragnancy. Is the boy also in the same boat of ignorance?                                      All the same, abortion or parental care of the fetus, which should you prefer?                                          Our thoughts, and opinions on abortion in these modern era is not yet straight forward.                                        The fetus whether "it" is a person or a thing should have had a right these days. A right to preservation and protection. But it's a different thing if the abortion is naturally induced. Naturally, the law protect a place, or a wild life. Wondering why the fetus is undeserving of such protective measures.

                2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                  Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  I agree with you completely. There's no difference between kill and murder. These word carry the idea of taking another life.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image74
                    Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    As long as your going to eat that person, it's not murder.
                    According to the Bible hand book.

              2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                Deleted

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  ... and there're so many birth control methods!

                  Are abortion rates down?

              3. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I hardly agree. Abortion whether it's murder or not still possess some questions.                                   The actors of incest or rape(unwant sex, sex at a threat, or at gun point) are never pictured as committing murder in the first instance! Yes, incest or rape is murdering a person.                                                In the Northern parts of a country like Nigeria, some rape acts has been passed into law. If a man rape a girl, he qualify to have his dick chopped off by an appointed doctor. But if he died during and after the surgery, so be it.

                1. Credence2 profile image77
                  Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  In the Northern parts of a country like Nigeria, some rape acts has been passed into law. If a man rape a girl, he qualify to have his dick chopped off by an appointed doctor. But if he died during and after the surgery, so be it.
                  -------------------------
                  Now that is what I call an "effective deterrent"

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
                    Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Credence, you're welcome.

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
            Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            That makes sense to me.

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image69
          Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Credence2, I can agree on all your pointers. However, I'm yet to find and read Kathryn views, because she's a very strong against abortion.                             More so, here's a factual scenario that plays itself out in my Wakirike(Okrika) Ijaw nation, in the Niger Delta.                                    A girl from 15 years is ripe for marriage. Any relationship with a boy or man, that results in conception without marriage is frown at. But the act is done. Custom demand the parents of the girl to take care of the mother and unborn fetus. Rape and incest were hardly heard of in those good old days.                                       Another scenario that plays itself out of the above is this. A pregnant lady looks beatiful to a suitor. Realsing she would be the wife of another guy cast a periwincle shell at her belly with the tag words:if you born a girl she's my wife. If a boy he's my friend. Now all parental cares pass to the invocator. So where does the idea of unwant pregnancy comes up?

      2. Sharlee01 profile image83
        Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Very good common-sense advice...

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 12 months ago

    What is "say-so" to the unborn?

    Unborn soul: "I say I must be born! It doesn't matter if I was conceived of rape or whatever.
    I want to come to earth. Here I am. Ready or not. I don't even care if you are not ready. That's how badly I want to come. Please don't kill me."

    The Soul entered into the union of the ovum and sperm willingly, with full desire to be born and live a lifetime on earth.

    Is it loving to deny the free-will of this newly ignighted soul coming from the astral plane to live a life on earth?

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      A serious question indeed. If the pregnancy is due to consent sex, then I would not let the fetus to be abort.                                             Is the mother's health in danger? Is the babe or mother to be save? Just allow nature to take its course. If the mother or babe die, a life remain. I've seen it happen. In rare cases, both mother and child died. That's unfortunate.

  5. Credence2 profile image77
    Credence2posted 12 months ago

    Lively discussion,

    Conservatives want to consider a fetus at conception inviolate until it is born. I hope the conservatives have nothing against birth control. But what about the RU-486 drug that can induce abortions? Can you control what a women ingests, if she self aborts who has the right to interfere? There cannot be a more dismal state of existence than being a child unwanted by its mother.

    I hear concerns about summary executions of fetuses who are innocent, I sympathize with this attitude.

    But, if women were forced to carry to term every zygote that slipped by,  what are the implications for women to have some control over their lives and bodies? Do you really think that this control will stop at just reproductive rights? You ladies will be defined by your womb and what is or what not in it. All of this is patriarchy to the extreme.

    This will have an affect on women's behavior and choices, while there are no comparable threats made toward men and their role in this process.

    As many said before, Roe vs Wade is a reasonable compromise and I abhor the conservatives for attempting to change it.

    1. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      +10000000000, there must be legal abortions.   No one should endure an UNWANTED pregnancy.  The hallmark of a civilized, enlightened society is the right to reproductive freedom.   It is beyond barbaric to force women to be mothers.  Children should be wanted & loved.  Haven't people forgotten that?   There WILL ALWAYS be abortions whether it be legal or illegal.  When abortions were illegal, women had back alley abortions, oftentimes w/disastrous results.    Also there was higher incidence of child abuse when children weren't wanted.   People ought to THINK, THINK, THINK.   Ask a child who was abused, uncared for because h/she was UNWANTED.   Studies show that children who are UNWANTED tend to be abused than children who are WANTED.   Yes, I support a woman's right to an abortion.   Abortion is a right!

      1. Castlepaloma profile image74
        Castlepalomaposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Even in nature and in the wild, Mother sometimes eat their young.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image69
          Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          OMG! Castlepaloma, can you honestly give reasons for that here?

  6. Rupert Taylor profile image95
    Rupert Taylorposted 12 months ago

    Credence2. I haven't read the comments in this thread because I know many will be vitriolic and likely personally abusive. I just wanted you to know that I'm in your corner and suggest you should have chosen Canada as a place to settle. We northerners are far more tolerant and accepting of alternate points of view, but the divisive invective so common in the U.S. is now starting to slither into Canada, and I don't like it.

    1. Credence2 profile image77
      Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      You've made my day, Rupert.  I like that Canadian patchwork quilt analogy over the amalgamated "melting pot" idea so prevalent here.

      It is a more sophisticated way to view people and life.

      These ugly attitudes of our authoritarian advocates here are moving north like the killer bees did. Knowing what it is when you see it is half the battle.

      Nice to hear from you again and I am grateful for your support......

  7. Brenda Arledge profile image80
    Brenda Arledgeposted 12 months ago

    I haven't been following this issue, but they will go elsewhere & oftentimes put themselves into more danger.

    1. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      +1000000000000000

 
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