Is wondering if we're heading for civil war a right winger position? Someone called me that and acted like I was a complete idiot (okay, politically I am but still) when I responded to something in an article.
I'm not looking for someone to agree with me - I have no real political opinions to agree or disagree with. Feeling guilty for wanting to stay out of it all is as far as I've gotten politically.
I dunno if it's specifically a right-winger position or not, but I do know it's ONE right-winger position. I would say it's a question even left-wingers should be asking themselves. Because it makes common sense to see the possibility of civil war, given the political tension in the U.S. these days.
Yet, you've broached an idea that few want to really entertain.
"We don't need no civil war"....but there does usually, historically, come a time when people have to choose whether they really want to be under tyranny or be free.....
You are asking honest questions and seeking to develop an informed point of view...
This disqualifies you from the ranks of right-wingers.
That could be true.
Because right-wingers don't pose questions about right and wrong, 'cause we already know what right is and aren't afraid to speak it.
The biggest problem in America is people take a side on an issue without knowing the facts. Learn the facts, take a position. That simple.
You should learn something about politics and history. I don't care which side you choose, this is your country. Be aware so you can make a choice.
Don't listen if anyone puts you down, let them be the fool.
..I...think you'd know if you were, or become, a right-winger! ha
Brenda, you got me thinking... there is an absurd amount of political tension, there may be some truth to it. Although I'm doubtful of a full out civil war. Or maybe that's wishful thinking.
I was afraid of the amount of tension there would be once I found out Obama was going to run for President. For one I knew he'd win, and I knew it would cause tension. I'm not saying I'm for or against him, I'm just saying I know a lot of people feel he is a socialist not a liberal.
Politically speaking, I'm somewhere in the middle of right wing and left. Right wings call me liberal (as if it's an insult), and left wings, call me conservative (as if it's an insult). Who knows...
Well, don't forget there IS a reason right-wingers are called that. It's because ...we're...RIGHT. ha But I'm serious too.
From my perspective, I think one major piece of this issue is---what kind of country do we right-wingers want our kids/grandkids to grow up in? Do we wait until the socialist hogwash takes a firm hold upon our nation? Or do we gird our loins and nip it in the bud ASAP?
well i'm more conservative and definitely not liberal, although i see valid points on both sides (although i am unhappy with big government), so maybe that makes me wishy-washy.....
Is this true?! Even someone as politically clueless as I am saw it? I just heard this morning that Oklahoma has called out the state militia to fight and prepare to secede! I figure Texas would be next, actually I thought they'd be first.
I have to go find out about this.
This is strange to me. Looking online real quick, I see people are complaining that state militias against the government is treason, against the constitution. But the whole reason the supporters of the militia idea are complaining is because the government is no longer following the constitution, true?
I just heard on the radio that "National Prayer Day" is May 6th.
The SC ruled that it is unConstitutional.--(separation of church and state.)
Reverand Dobbs said they were going to do it regardless of the Constitution.
Help! An enemy of the Constitution. Take up arms and go after that Focus on the Family!!!!!!
Just as a little aside...a small one I know, nothing as big as prayer: invading a foreign nation is also unConstitutional. Little bother to you right-wingers, I know. um, and torture too is illegal under the laws of our country. oh, and it was proven that our gvt. was illegally wiretapping......
But hey! Let's get all up in arms now, since you know, we have healthcare and oh my god! The SEC actually did it's job and is charging Goldman Sachs with FRAUD!
can't have that in righty-land.
after all, it's my way or the highway in "Im only happy when I win"-ville
Don't you dare expect them to follow the law when it doesn't suit them! That would be against their religion: My way or no way at all.
You do get teed off when conservatives actually start speaking out, dontcha?!
Where in the Constitution does it say we can't invade another country?
Torture is illegal. Water boarding the way is was supposed to be carried out was found by the Justice department NOT to meet the international definition of torture.
The wiretapping is a problem. Too bad Obama supports it still today.
Oh and you forgot to mention Bachman taking her 250,000 dollar farm subsidy that she was entitled to. By the way, who do you think came up with farm subsidies?
I don't know about why the militias are complaining, but it is a fact that the government has strayed from the enumerated powers granted to them by the constitution, and the separation of powers has broken down with the three branches acting in concert to justify their expansion of power.
The constitution allows for the federal government to put down insurrection, so state militias would be breaking the law if they rebelled. Ideally, the Feds would address the grievances of the States and reach an agreement.
I don't believe there will be civil war, but I do fear there will be civil disobedience and possibly violence. The federal government is on an unsustainable path of spending. What will happen if there is no money to pay for what the government promised? No money for Social Security, or Medicare or the Health Care that was just passed? What will happen if taxes have to be raised considerably to try and muster revenues to pay for these entitlements? Will oppressive taxes lead to further job losses and further economic collapse? If so how will the people react when they can't get a job and their is no money for unemployment and their houses are being foreclosed, their cars repossessed? What will happen when the middle class becomes nothing more than a roving group of homeless refugees and the rich have left the country seeking safe harbor elsewhere? This is our future, or the future of our children and grandchildren if government isn't reined in.
It's true that some Tea Partiers are saying that the government isn't following the Constitution (over health care mandates and taxes) and some liberals are saying this also but about different issues (illegal eavesdropping on citizens phone calls and emails, etc.) Civil war won't be required to settle these issues. That's the job of the Supreme Court. Of course the Court isn't infallible and hardly ever satisfies everyone.
If someone called me a right winger...I would ask to be the left winger (hockey humor )
I don't understand why anyone would be against prayer. No one HAS to participate! About waterboarding - I'm against it.
Poppa, you need to keep up! Here, I'll help:
Bush wire tapping, bad. Obama wiretapping, good.
Bush spending, bad. Obama spending, good.
Bush military, bad. Obama military, good.
Bush farm subsidies, bad. Obama farm subsidies, good.
LOL! Yes I know how it works! I was just think this morning, why isn't the left and the media beating up Obama over these wars and that fat defense contract. America accounts for half of all the defense spending in the entire world!!!
It's just crazy!
Why do you have to make things so simple?
I find the threat of mass violence frightening. Some have suggested that there'll be a civil war in a North vs. South scenario. How could this be? People all over the country are upset with Washington. It isn't confined to the South!
Yes, this is why I avoid politics. lovemychris totally confused me! I assume she's a left winger (leftist?) (lefty? ) because of what she was saying but the end sounded like she agreed with the people complaining about the government who I thought were rights.
So all it really is is Oklahoma putting the forming of a state militia up to a vote next year? I'll go read the other comments now.
I'm pretty sure all the states have a Militias already, the National Guard, which can be mobilized by the governors of the States, though they also serve the federal government, so I'm not sure where their allegiance would lie.
Complaining is one thing...threatening to overthrow by force is another.
Because those of us who were real unhappy with Bush never threatened to overthrow them. What do these people think, they are ordained to rule for all time?
Vermont did talk of seceding, I remember that. But they never said Bush was un-American, or a traitor--which is implied on a regular basis by the right-wing mouth-pieces.
And habee, you have it backwards, you really do.
You must remember who came first.
Because all those things you listed, Bush was a hero for. Now Obama is called anti-American.
And this administration is far more circumspect when it comes to those issues. Read Holders statements about it. He is very aware of avoiding over-reach.
Cheney was pushing for The Unitary Executive idea, that's why those things were "rammed down our throats" in the first place.
And no one is forced to pray...that's why I don't understand the whole prayer controversy in the first place! Prayer in school....who's stopping anyone? All they have to do is close their eyes and pray. Why do they require public attention?
But, don't say you are big Constitutionalists, and then say you will flout the Constitution for your religion!
And I mention Bachmann because she is the one going on and on and on and ON about the rotten gvt., the no-good, the too-big gvt.
So why make it worse then?
She is one of those she is complaining about! Unless she thinks she deserves it more than any other American...Which obviously she does.
That is my problem with the tea-party.
They act like no one else ever had a problem with the gvt.
As long as they were happy, no one had a right to complain.Now the shoe is on the other foot, and they act like they just had their lollipop taken away.
Their idea of change is threats and intimidation.
Well guess what? We don't want them back.
And of that, you will see.
I don't think Bush was a hero! And as for Cheney, I find him very scary!
No state militia will fight the U.S. Military, it would be suicide. Sometimes people speak out to get attention. Like the Forums.
Then why is Bachmann entitled to a quarter million dollars from the federal government she despises?
And which she constantly complains about "other" people getting tax money.
How is that right?
How is it right that your side questions the president in a time of war?
Isn't that aiding and abetting the enemy?
Bachmann is a loon. She makes Palin look like a nuclear physicist! I feel the same way about Franken. What is it with Minnesota? I guess I can't talk, though - GA has the democrat who thinks Guam will tip over if its population becomes too dense! lol
You got Bachman pegged right, but not Franken. He's one smart dude (a graduate of Harvard, not that there aren't looneys from Harvard. But he's not one.)
Not relevant. The Guam guy graduated from law school and was an attorney for 25 years. BTW, where did W attend college??
I guess it was ok for him to say F You President Bush, as he was running for the Senate.
I've never called Obama un-American, a traitor, a muslim, or a non-citizen.
Bush wasn't called a socialist - he was called a fascist, which is worse.
Not by members of the democratic party in gvt.. Not by talking-heads on tv night after night.
Not on the radio day after day.....
And even though I know many thought he was a liar, they never screamed it out while Bush was giving a speech.
They didn't have the guts to nor a good reason to, because Bush behaved respectably and had a public strength that Obama doesn't have. A righteous wind was at his back, too. Unlike Obama, no matter how much he tries to claim it.
There's nothing quite so respectable as denying human rights, illegal wiretaps on US citizens, secret gulags all over Europe and a torture campaign. Yes, a rightous wind that smells of religous bigoty/
Do you really think those were started by Bush?
I think they were authorized by the Bush Administration. Whether it was Cheney or Rove or Bush or some combination - or different players.. I don't know. No president can know everything that goes on, but decisions of that size should have required his authorization. If they were the result of rogue operators, there should have been criminal prosecution by the Justice Dept. No matter how you slice it, the buck stops at Bush's desk.
Lovemychris, you have got to be kidding!! Here, let me refresh your memory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxmEGG7 … re=related
I'm anxiously awaiting your reply!!
Ok, point taken.
But you have Olbermann versus Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Ingraham, Severin, Savage, etc. And I Still didn't hear anyone question Bush's citizenship, or call him and anti-American traitor....but I guess the damage is in the eye of the beholder.
And I know no one was talking about armed insurrection back then...
Unless I missed that one.
And I know no one ever showd up to any republican meeting with a gun, and if so, they would have been arrested on the spot.
Cindy Sheehan was arrested for a t-shirt for god's sakes .
And, I don't see these tea-party protestors being called America-hating traitors either.
So, we can agree that speaking out is a right and even a duty....but so much harm was done by the right to their fellow citizens, it will never be undone.
That is my opinion.
Fascist is a bit over the top. He was not a very good president for a variety of reasons which I won't enumerate again here.
I DO think it's time for a civil war - but only because somehow our government is spending money we don't have, taking it from citizens first, skimming a huge personal share, then doing things with it we never agreed to.
The constant encroaching on freedoms is out of control and I believe conspiracy theories that the media is used to incite fear to give government a reason to start wars in other countries.
But I also think I have no real idea. Because it's not like "the government" is one person or even one entity. What EXACTLY can be fought? Votes don't seem to be working but maybe they are. If the majority agrees with the direction of the country, voting works. Fighting the corruption which comes with power requires changing human nature, votes don't change that.
Time for a civil war? No way! Do you know how many people got killed in the last civil war? 618 to 700,000. Civil war is the worst kind of war. I would be very surprised to hear that a single responsible person is advocating a civil war. A more civil dialog, yes. Civil war absolutely not!
Bush had taxes raised on the poor, lowered taxes for the rich, got us in an unjust war, screwed YOUR rights with the patriot act, and you never heard a word. WHY? Because he was fulfilling the wishes of corporate america. NOW, we have a president who is fighting for the poor people and apparently the whole country is freaking out!. Get REAL, the money buys the air time, so you here more about it. The problem is, the money controls oppinion and here you are, CONTROLLED BY MONEY!
I heard as much about Bush as I do about Obama, that's not really the problem. It feels so good hearing people say NO CIVIL WAR. I've been trying to wrap my mind around the idea, persuade myself it will help, because it seems like it's coming. In history, when countries leadership became so corrupt (like it's ever been different? ), that's the next step. But does it change things?
Maybe the first thing one should do is get involved thoroughly in local politics and make sure the ones who work their way up are better choices than what we're offered. I never have been able to understand how riders are allowed to be added onto bills! People didn't vote for that did they?! You go look at someone's voting history and see they voted against something major they were voted in to work to get into law, but it's not because they're breaking their promise. They're protesting certain riders thrown in that should have never been there. I hate politics.
Well, I don't own a gun...I guess its death for my family and me.
I think there's a proper way to criticize elected officials without the name calling - from either side.
I agree mostly, but I won't put O'Reilly in the same category with the others. I've heard Bill defend Obama many times.
I think people are just fed up with Washington in general. Both Bush II and Obama have endured vile name calling, being booed or heckled by members of Congress, and being portrayed as Hitler. I see no place for this. I don't remember Bush I or Clinton being subjected to this much vitriol. I think it just goes to show how divided we have become as a nation, which began largely under W and has since escalated.
Of course, during the Viet Nam War, the country was very divided for a while, with leftist groups holding violent and destructive protests. I thought perhaps we had evolved since then, but perhaps not.
I have absolutely no problem with someone's disagreeing with or protesting a president's policies, but there's a right way to go about it.
Left-Wing or Right-Wing politics or the Left-Right political spectrum is a one dimensional spectrum used to classify political parties, political positions, or political ideologies.
To explain the difference between the two its easier to compare and contrast the positions taken by the far left and the far right. Be aware that many people’s political beliefs are on a continuum between left and right.
A brief way to describe the difference would be to say that left wingers believe the country is more important than the individual, and right wingers believe that the individual is more important than the country.
That analogy is semi-true. Left wingers believe that governments are a force for social justice and change, and so should intervene in individual’s lives to ensure social justice is achieved. Right wingers believe that governments are big and unwieldy and so should not interfere with people’s lives at all. They believe that government interference contravenes an individual’s right to liberty.
For this reason left wingers have traditionally favoured ‘big’ government while right wingers favoured ‘small’ government.
Right wingers believe in formal equality. They believe that everyone should be treated equally under the law and should be treated equally by government. Examples of right wing formal equality include equal pay for equal work and civil and political rights.
Left wingers believe in substantial equality. They argue that not every individual is the same and so government policy should be aimed to create substantial rather than just formal equality. Examples of left wing substantial equality include affirmative action and social and cultural rights.
smart a*s You never know, someone here might have needed it explained
have you ever read . . . . . anything? i have never heard such backwards viewpoints on the philosophy of democrat and republican in my life. oh yes i have but only and always from someone on the right. it's unanimous. this whole tea party thing is funded by dick armey and another organization owned by corporations and lobbyists. we watch and see just how easy it is to get you to believe . . . .anything, and then fight for it and condemn people and call them wrong and work your self in a tizzy for them. the only thing you are involved in is a ruse, a distraction to create ferver and take attention away from the real problem. the right! the silent majority watch you with amusement. repeating the sky is faling over and over does not make it so , nor will make it happen and soon it will be seen that it's not going to happen.then you become and you are just about there,"the boy who cried wolf"
habee that response was not for you disregard it was for brenda, sorry
True, few people are all left or all right. For example, I like small government, the 2nd amendment, low taxes, and states' rights. BUT...I'm also against the death penalty and for some social programs. While I hate abortion, I would not like to see Roe v Wade overturned because I know what would happen if it were.
"Am I A Right Winger?"
aw, heck, who cares? as long as you ain't no Right Wing-nut!
habee yeah i don't know how it happened. i clicked on it but when i finished typing it was on yours ha ha ha. don't know what i did wrong
Today, April 19th is the anniversary of the Ok. City Bombing. One thing that McVeigh, James Earl Ray, Sirhan Sirhan and Lee Harvey Oswald had in common was that each thought he was igniting a civil war which would make them a hero.
These deluded people were egged on by extremist propaganda which made them believe that they were doing a very moral thing and that their opposition was getting what it deserved.
There will never be another American civil war but there may well be more acts of anarchy fueled by extremist rhetoric. We do have a right to indulge ourselves in conversations about "what if" scenarios but it may not help stabilize the country that has given us everything we have.
My thoughts, respectfully.
Here's a link to a long article by Gore Vidal on McVeigh and his motives for the bombing. Vidal says McVeigh was motivated by the horrible slaughter of women and children by the ATF and FBI of the Branch Davidians in Waco.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl2/gore-vi … veigh.html
I read the referenced article (it's a long one) and a few others also. He makes his points well and, although I disagree with much of his philosophy, he is working to advance his ideas in the proper way. I'll read more of his stuff when I get time.
The deaths of innocents (sanitized as "collateral damage") is a horrible thing to witness, no matter what the agenda is. Waco was probably ill-advised but Ok. City was premeditated murder.
If our government and those who run it become too self-serving, the solution is to vote them out, not make a bomb.
Someone just sent me this as part of an email:
Take a look at this and just remember elections in November 2010.
1. U.S. House & Senate have voted themselves $4700 and $5300
2. They voted to NOT give you a S.S. cost of living raise in
2010 and 2011.
Anyone know if this is alarmist talk or truth? Cut and dried like it sounds or reasonable when you consider or realize (whatever there may be to change what it sounds like)?
If I'm not mistaken, the Senate and House don't vote for raises for themselves anymore. I believe they passed a bill a few years back that gives them automatic raises so they don't have to vote for them.
Yes there will not be social security raises in 2010 and 2011 because the cost of living hasn't risen.
Right, it's an automatic raise, but they can vote to not receive the adjustment. They're working on that now. I believe the bill is still in committee.
Oh for crying out loud! Now is NOT the time to take a raise!!!
But now consider that some CEO's makes 500 times that of their employee's.
Please don't forget that when you're doling out anger.
Because if the cost of doing business goes up, they don't take a cut in pay (millions)....they raise the prices on you.
Ahh, this was perfect. I figured there were probably relevant issues to consider - if cost of living has not increased, there is no call for a cost of living raise. If there's a bill to not raise the salaries of the house and senate, that matters too.
And lovemychris, who's doling out anger? Are you talking about me? What the heck?!
No Not really, just the "angry Americans" in general.
Always ready to pounce on Obama and the dems, even though they are finally trying to do something about this massive heist we have lived through.
So just don't let the banks and corporations off the hook that's all.
Which the tea-party has seemed overwhelmingly to do.
Koch funds most of the tea-party stuff......
Oh man. This guy is a real real dirty dealing polluter and neo-kook.
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