I am sick to my back teeth of people slagging the states off and I feel they should be grateful to us as we have for years fought to keep this world stable. I say a prayer for our troops every night before I go to bed and I get upset when I see someone bringing our nation down, god bless America.
I wonder why you're following me ! I'm a terrorist !
May be - if they are not as grateful as you expect - you are doing something wrong? At least this is what I am trying to explain to my 6yo when other kids get unhappy with him forcefully "helping" them
Good for you, but you only exist because of that other forum thread that got closed to reply! gotta love them sock puppets!
Nobody was putting your country down, this is all part of your imagination, as I clearly demonstrated.
America is alright, the Burgers are nice, they make good coffees, Las Vegas is one my favourite cities. Does this make you feel better?
America is not the only country to fight wars though, and non-Americans and Americans have the right to object to any war if they so wish.
I found Ryan's Posting, so close to the US Memorial Day, particularly disturbing. When a question is posted like that and the expectation of the simplistic answer, it is never a simple question, but rife with subtext.
It is time that America stop apologising for who we are and what we stand for. Oh and Ryan, if you'd like to have the UN relocate to London, we'd love to have you take them.
Ryan always has his own thing going on. S'ok, he's one very bright human being, and I detect a lack of patience with people who follow the standard party line in his dialogs. He thinks outside the box, that's a good thing. He's not very patient with people who don't, that's all, he isn't as hostile really as he sometimes sounds. He's really very openminded.
To be honest, I just didn't know that Memorial Day existed - I don't live in America. We have memorial days in the UK too, but they are on different dates.
Actually attempting to trap people into a simplistic box with yes or no, is neither bright nor out-of-the-box, it's just boring. Or in this case irritating as all hell.
It didn't happen though Nelle. Your perception of that thread and my intentions were two different things. I am sorry if the thread left a sour taste in your mouth, it wasn't my intention, that should be the end.
Is this because I didn't respond to your rude demanding email recently?
You could let this die now if you wish, everybody else had.
What is your problem Nelle? I have not sought any apology from any American, do not know when the state holidays in America are - just like I suspect you do not know when the national holidays in the UK are - and I have not once mentioned the UN, you can keep it. That thread died, this is a new good natured one, let's keep this one pleasant. I was pretty upset that American TV channels negotiated to screen the Michael Jackson funeral on the day of the 7/7 anniversary, but those things happen, two different countries with different priorities.
I didn't even know that Memorial Day existed until three weeks ago, yet alone mark it in my diary, so don't play that card.
Really, really, I don't think, Nelle, that Ryan meant anything so very bad. Let's get some perspective and shake hands and kinda start over with the patriotic thing this thread was originally about.
I'm glad I'm American. If I was a Brit, I'd be glad to be English. They have a whole lot going for them, too. I'm an inveterate reader, and I don't know which fiction I like better--English or American. One of my all time favorites is Charles Dickens, always, but also Nathaniel Hawthorne in about equal amounts, for comfort fiction.
Both nations have so much to be proud of, in the arts, in democratic humanitarianism, and in a level of personal freedom and prosperity very few countries enjoy.
I know that the concept of patriotism puts an “American” spin on the term. But I don’t know how to be patriotic for Uganda or Paraguay or other countries. I hope these fellow humans have lofty ideals they celebrate when they feel patriotic, but whether or not they do is a question you’ll have to ask them. I can only tell you what patriotism means to me as an American.
I understand that America has often fallen short of the superlative ideas expressed in the Declaration. That hasn’t diminished my reverence for them, nor has it dimmed my hope that future generations of Americans will be re-inspired by them.
My husband is an Air Force Officer and I'm proud of that, just as I'm proud of all my family and his family that served before him. This brand of patriotism, in fact, gets me through the roughest and most fearful of times.
Hey yankee: here's my disclaimer that I carry around these days:
I repeat I'm NOT anti american, nor anti israel, nor anti gay, nor anti semite, nor anti muslims, nor anti christians, nor anti sock puppets, nor anti hubpages, nor anti anything really. I'm NOT a terrorist nor have any links to AlQaida either. I'm pro peace, pro all good things in life!
p.s. I bet I still offended someone out there!
Well Duh! Of course you did - you left out the blacks, the whites, the reds and yellows. You didn't mention Chinese, Germans or Italians. To top it off you probably eat meat, hate whales and cut down trees!
Besides, if you don't give 90% of your waking time and 98% of your money (gotta have that money!) to a group then you obviously hate them.
That places you firmly in a Hubpages minority group then
Now, does anybody care to buy an American flag? http://hubpages.com/hub/Buy-An-American-Flag
No I just got some England ones to hang round the house and from a few windows and when we lose the World cup on penalty shoot outs again, I'll be able to wipe my arse with them!
Spekin zee duetsche?...
You know why you don't?...
Because Russia defeated Hitler. With American and British help, though
Well technically he defeated himself He missed that testicle after all didn't he?
He probably didn't know Russia fought in WW II, Misha! LOL!
I knew you would start babling that lunacy again.. lolol
You guys really do teach that BS over there.
Oh, we've been taught a lot of BS buddy - as well as you guys. The difference between you and me is that nowadays I recognize this BS for what it was - and you don't.
As for that particular case - quick lookup of WWII German casualties on Western vs Eastern front will quickly put you on the right perspective - of course if you are capable of something more than outright parroting of BS you have been brainwashed into
Because the British, and the Canadians, and the Russians, and the US, among others defeated Hitler.
We are the most overrated footballing nation in the world! One world class player, that is it, my bet is a penalty shoot out defeat to Germany in the Quarter Finals (at least I think we can meet them there?).
And the world is lucky I am not president. Alot of our so called allies would be smacked off the titty real quick.
Yeah... a man only can dream...
If you are implying that you would severe ties with the UK, I think that you would be a pretty popular president with most British people. Personally I am pretty impartial, I just have that Island mentality. What happened to your new login? Didn't fancy buying an American flag then?
So glad to see you again, Ryan. I haven't heard a word from you on the forums in a long, long time, but then I've been away, too. The poor old folks are ill and need a LOT of looking after. They have me running off my feet! Howya been????
Also, PS, I'm sorry the Brits don't like Americans anymore. Really sorry.
I wouldn't say that, we are just a lot more independant than our government would like us to be. We actually have a very good relationship with Americans, its just that we don't want to share our politics with them. Just like we don't want to share our politics with the EU anymore either. I certainly have no problem with Americans as individuals, it is far too large a country to dislike it all anyway, its like 50 countries under one banner. I couldn't develop a hatred for 50 countries. To the contrary, the USA has been one of the warmest countries I have visited - I have many friends there, as does my girlfriend who once lived and worked there.
Speaking of proud, today is the 68th anniversary of the Battle of Midway.
http://www.history.navy.mil/commemorati … -index.htm
God Bless the U.S.A.
Patriotism aside I do not believe "the end justifies the means."
How many times must we strike out against others because of our fear that someone might strike out against us? Even when we are truly attacked by those without scruppels, and who are quickly designated as cowards,can we justify relinquishing our scupples on the basis of our being the cowards? Or for that matter is vengenance a legitimate, moral reason to kill others?
Obviously once a person decides to violate their own moral code because of a goal, no matter how laudatory that goal might be, they have begun their path down a very slippery slope.
It may be worthwhile to make a distinction between an individual making their own personal decision with regards to ends and means, and when someone in authority is making a decision which will effects thousands if not millions of other people.
It is one thing to say that in accordance with one's most profound philosophical and spiritual beliefs that achieving specific ends/goals does not allow one to undertake any process/means which violates their deepest beliefs in doing things right.
That being said it's up to the people to actively participate in government to make sure these things don't happen.
Everyone is proud of their country in their own way. You don't have to show your country is better than any one else's. And I don't think that was Ryan's intent on the other thread.
It sincerely wasn't, and I am sorry if anybody percieved it that way.
In fact, I could say more bad things about Britain that any other country in the world - since I live here and see the crap everyday.
Somebody got murdered two streets away last night, my friends feel let down as they can't get any decent work, and up north a crazed gunman killed 12 people last week.
I have never tried to paint the perfect picture of rainy little Britain, but I do not see why I should have to paint a rosy picture of any other country either - including the USA. If I see something shocking, and it happens to relate to America, then so be it. I could have replaced 'America' with any other country and there would have been no uproar whatsoever.
I just don't want to be labelled as anti-American, I have never been and never will be, and I will defend myself against inaccurate representations . I have had much worse stuff pointed in my direction on here.
I certainly assumed so from the OP and wrote a scathing reply, then decided to delete it ...
It truly did look as though you were slamming all Americans for the poor taste of a few soldiers. Yes it was inappropriate, but teaching kids dumb songs, however inappropriate is hardly a war crime.
You said you just asked a simple question ... "Does this one act by an American Solider make me, as an American proud?"
OK, the simple answer is "No, not this particular thing". This one thing is probably not our most shining moment. But, I don't think it's typical.
So, in my mind, I still question why you felt the need to post if if not to spread anti-American sentiment.
To me, the OP looked more like an accusation than a simple question.
It certainly seemed anti-American to me. If Misha hadn't kept showing up on my hubitivity screen I would not have bothered with this thread at all.
I can't say I was offended, because that would have implied that I cared more than I did. If not for the fact that Misha seemed to take you seriously, I would have written you off entirely as too Anti-American to even bother with.
I find your protestations that you are not Anti-American to be interesting ... as I only have this thread to judge that by and thus, not 100% convinced.
Not that I expect my opinion to matter!
I have no prejudice against any race, religion, sexuality, gender, nationality, hair colour, or any other defining feature. And that includes Americans of any race, religion, sexuality, gender or hair colour.
As for Cosette, well she should know me well enough by now to be confident that I am not bigotted.
I lost my best friend to the Iraq war by the way Cosette, he died whilst fighting alongside Americans, that doesn't change the fact that the American soldiers in those videos were acting in an inhumane and derogatory fashion. Same applies to the British video.
I stumbled across that first video, I didn't search for them, I subsequently shared. That is web 2.0 for you. When I realised that certain Americans had taken offence, I made an effort to find a British example. A worse example in fact. What else needs to be said?
I feel that behaviour like that should be denounced, Americans are not immune to that; neither are people from any other country in this big world of ours.
Yeah I do think that Ryan meant something and should be held accountable. He picked a video on youtube, that put American Troops in the worst possible light and then demanded that we renounce it. Yeah that was a fair test of patriotism. What was he thinking? That we'd cower and beg forgiveness?
The fact that I'm even duking it out in the Politics forums, should tell him somthing. Because I very rarely venture here.
I'm giving myself a 3-day forum ban now, because I'm just too irritated to be sensible.
Oh zip it Nelle. You may find me "boring" but your getting pretty tiring now too. I think that your ego may be getting a little too big, you have no right to hold anybody 'accountable', if you find any of my statements offensive then simply report it to the Hubpages staff and let them judge accordingly as per the normal Hubpages procedure. I don't think that I have crossed any boundaries, if they feel that I have then so be it - I will happily take any punishment that they feel neccessary. Anybody would think that I had killed somebody.
that's easy for you to say Misha, as you are not American and you have no loved ones serving over there. for Nelle to be compelled to comment on something like this says something about the original thread, which i read and which was clearly an indictment on American soldiers and America altogether, for all the innocent protestations to the contrary.
the simple fact is these are a few isolated incidents and a few soldiers. they do not represent our country or our military as a whole.
-over and out-
....Don't mean to cut in or anything, but where on earth did the OP go??!!
What's "OP"???? (Yet another duh moment in Paradise!)
It stands for 'Original Poster' I think, so the person who started the thread basically.
Sorry to hear that you have been busy, me too, this is my first real foray onto the forum for a while - I may make it my last for a while too
Aw, Ryan. I enjoy your posts so much! You're such an intelligent morsel. I'd miss you very much.
The OP disappeared, and TM showed up...hmmmmm
the yankee who doodled here!
Yikes, I've done it again! Now where on earth is that disclaimer of mine?!
No good - you didn't mention Yankees, either.
There are many other videos which show American troops doing shameful things in Iraq like shooting sheep from the back of an army vehicle and throwing a puppy off of a cliff.
No, not all of our troops do these things, but if we choose to ignore them we open ourselves up to scandals such as Abu Garib and Guantanamo Bay. These things happened in Viet Nam too.
These acts are indefensible. They tarnish the image of our great country and make defending our ideals much harder. We cannot just hide these terrible truths and expect to be looked at as a nation with good intentions by the rest of the world.
Randy Goodwin, many thanks for your response. To be honest, this was the type of reasoned and logical response that I was looking for in my 'offensive' thread.
There have been, and I cannot emphasise this enough, British incidents like this too. My only point is that these individuals bring shame on a country, and their comrades, not that a country should feel ashamed of themselves.
If you were an honest member of the American Military who joined to fight for peace and freedom, from a family with a proud military background, and members of your 'platoon' (is that what Americans call them?) acted in this manner - you would at very least be very angry with them.
That is my only point, I even supplied a video of a British act of violence in Iraq which was far far worse than the videos of American soldiers which I presented; just to underline that my motive had no 'racial' undertones. (If we can even be considered a different race, I guess that we can).
Thanks for your response.
My father landed on Omaha Beach at Normandy on D-Day. My nephew flew cover in a Blackhawk in a well publicized rescue mission of a downed Air Force pilot during the Clinton administration. both were heroes, no doubt. So I am proud of the heroic efforts of our soldiers, but I am also ashamed of many things I see from Iraq.
I suppose many of us look at patriotism in different ways. I just do not believe hiding atrocities helps build confidence in our ability to try to do the right thing. The right thing is often not the easiest to achieve without bad things happening.
Of course, you are 100% correct. And this was genuinely the type of response that I had initially expected. I regret that I may have approached the topic in an insensitive manner, but I genuinely attempted - as always - to spark a reasoned debate amongst fellow hubbers. I will think a bit harder next time!
I didn't take it as an attack on America at all, Ryan! I lived through the Viet Nam war era and learned about this type of behavior long ago. I do understand why some with family might take this topic as an affront to them, but their anger is misplaced, in my humble opinion. I hope they do not really take a look at the many worse videos out there if these cause them so much strife.
Some are better off not knowing the reality of war!
I think the title and then the video is what was so upsetting to people. Perhaps if he had shown the videos of British and other troops at the same time...you see.
I agree with Randy they do tarnish our image. Be assured all our troops aren't like that.
This is a great Frontline episode and discusses The Third Platoon in Iraq and once they came home.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline … ce=toparea
I am proud of my men and women in uniform and I thank them for the amazing sacrifices taken to secure our nation. I also think it is very sad what war can do to people so young. They become completely desensitized to violence.
If you want to get an idea what our soldiers endure in the Iraqi theater you will enjoy the video.
LOL See Ryan, I told ya
David, he is a nice guy, really. As most youth he may be less considerate of others' feelings, but I really doubt he meant to trash the whole country. He just likely did not think as his wording would resonate on the other side LOL.
Cosette, I am not going to argue with you, sorry
Well ... since you vouch for him ...
Ryan, I am sorry for you loss and I honor his sacrifice, as hard as it may be to understand.
Well he believed in the cause, which is all that matters to me. It is/was not a war which I could relate to personally, in fact I was firmly against the Iraq war; but he was prepared to lose his life for his work, and his family are proud of him, thats all that matters.
So where did my new fan-follower go ? Is he TM in the end ?
We don't really know who he/she is Just guessing.
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