Would you consider this a hate crime?

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   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   Princeton student Tyler Clementi committed suicide after his roommate Dharun Ravi streamed his sexual encounter with another boy, on the internet.  Clementi became the talk of his dorm and several days later, he jumped off the George Washington Bridge.  Ravi is charged with a hate crime.  With the information currently on hand, I actually think this "smart" kid did something really stupid but I question whether it was a hate crime.  If it was a girl in the room and it was streamed live on the internet, it would still be embarassing for Clementi but perhaps it wouldn't be as traumatic.  I personally think Ravi should be charged for something like violating privacy and be jailed for a few years, but a hate crime?

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      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Its not a hate crime.
      
      If this had been a heterosexual incident on display it wouldn't be considered a hate crime.
      
      And what happened to all of the enlightened students who support gay rights?

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         Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'm surprised about the response from this liberal college as well.  Clementi must have gotten some terrible slurs from his dormmates in order to commit suicide.

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            Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Its funny how libs make fun of homosexuals while professing to support them.
            
            They are always good for a laugh.
            
            Libs that is.

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               Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It's possible to find humor in the ways of others while still believing they have the absolute right to enjoy those ways.
               
               Americans are far, far, far, far too tense and delicate.  Goes back to my last comment.

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                  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Make fun of the thing that you say they have the right to enjoy.
                  
                  Sure, makes perfect sense.
                  
                  If they feel belittled and hated for doing what they enjoy no problem, at least you got a laugh out of it.
                  
                  "Americans are far, far, far, far too tense and delicate."
                  
                  I could introduce you to some delicate Americans, now that would be funny...for me.

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                     Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I love how you turn my word, "humor," into your words "belittle and hate."  Turn off your Victim Mode for two seconds so a real conversation can be had.

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                        Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        So why do you think the guy did a swan dive off the bridge?
                        
                        You think he thought it was humorous?
                        
                        Really?

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                           Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Who knows why he did? I'm not the guy's shrink.  You don't know why he did either.  But you're going to stand their and get all preachy and waggle your self-righteous finger in my face without having the least vestige of facts, much less ANY clue what my point was.
                           
                           You sit in judgment of me with nothing but your assumptions and knee-jerk hypersensitivity, perverting my word "humor" into hate and belittlement, and now bloating that lie into my being the type of person who thinks the kid's suicide was funny. 
                           
                           You, the one who called it a "swan dive." The insensitivity of that little piece of humor, given what my statement was and your glaring lack of either the intellectual acuity to grasp it or rhetorical integrity to find out what I meant, is beyond ironic.
                           
                           You are the one filled with hate, don't project it on me.

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                              Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              "Who knows why he did? I'm not the guy's shrink."
                              
                              You think he saw the humor in what was happening and killed himself?
                              
                              I don't think anyone would have to be his shrink to know that probably wasn't the case.
                              
                              "But you're going to stand their and get all preachy and waggle your self-righteous finger in my face without having the least vestige of facts"
                              
                              Lets review, guy has sex with another guy and it was taped then posted on the internet leading to guys eventual suicide. And you with all the critical thinking skills you possess are confused to why?
                              
                              Yes, I see the confusion

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                                 Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 You clearly have no interest in speaking about this, as you continue to completely ignore everything I say in favor of your fictitious version of it.  I never had you pegged for a troll before, but perhaps I wasn't watching closely enough. I'm done with you.

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                                    Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I was talking about it.
                                    
                                    And if all you have is "I can't for the life of me figure out why he killed himself" then its best that you're done.
                                    
                                    Troll, troll, troll.
                                    
                                    Get a new line.

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         Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         What gay right are you refering to, the right to commit suicide? As to your rediculous statement about how this would differ if it were a heterosexual incident, last I checked heterosexuals weren't being demonized for the fact they were born straight. Narrowminded ignorance seems to be your calling card and you seemed to be proud of this fact. You must be a christian.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think Ravi should be charged with, yes, violation of privacy, and displaying pornography, and whatever other violations of Tyler's personal rights there are for Ravi to be legitimately charged with.   But it shouldn't be labeled a hate crime anymore than any other similar incident.

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2. 78

   Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago

   The whole "hate" crime thing is part of the belief in weakness that large parts of our country have bought into.  It's the whole "I'm a victim" thing that has everyone falling all over themselves trying to find reasons to be offended, to sue, to feel singled out.  And everyone else can't even speak for fear of offending or being leapt upon for some innocent remark.  Nobody calls a spade a spade anymore, we have to analyze everything through a special lens of hyper-sensitivity.
   
   Crime is crime.  If someone breaks the law, they break the law.  Why is it MORE illegal to kill someone for racist reasons than for jealousy or money or anything else?  The whole concept of "hate crime" to me seems like such a distraction and a political ploy meant to deepen the sense of victimization so that politicians can get votes and loud-mouths can sell books, documentaries or magazines.  Evil is evil: why is some evil more evil than other evil?  It seems nonsensical to me.
   
   The particulars of this case revolve around who actually filmed the video first and foremost, and then where it was when the other guy got hold of it.  If Ravi secretly filmed Tyler or if Ravi broke into his files and got hold of it, then he should be punished for breaking the law.

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   Evan G Rogersposted 14 years ago

   Hate crimes are nonsense. Why is that if a black person is killed by a white person, the whitey gets a harder punishment than if a black is murdered by a black?
   
   It's nonsense

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   Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago

   I agree, it's nonsense.

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5. 70

   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   No, it is not a hate crime.

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   dostersposted 14 years ago

   It is a hate crime in that all crime against someone else is a hate crime.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Now to think that is foolish.

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         dostersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "any of various crimes when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group"
         
         In a sense "people I don't like" is a group...

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Just because someone doesn't like someone or dislikes someone, does not mean or justify calling it "hate".
            
            Even hostile intentions, doesn't qualify as "hate" or "hatred" either.

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               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               What would you call it?

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I wouldn't call it "hate". I have felt "hatred", and I can tell you it is something much more than just disliking someone or something.
                  
                  I can dislike someone or something, but it doesn't mean I hate them.

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                     Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Not everybody is the same.
                     
                     If I don't like something then I hate it.

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                        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Then obviously you lack the understanding of your own emotions. And, that is a shame.

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                           Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           No, I understand my emotions quite well.
                           
                           You don't understand my emotions and the fact you don't understand that is the real shame.

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                              Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Of course, you're usual tactic. Turn everything around on other people.
                              
                              You hate that easily, then living life in that manner is just stupid and foolish. Not to mention, just pathetic.

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                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 "you're usual tactic"
                                 
                                 Thats, "your usual tactic."
                                 
                                 If you are arrogant enough to believe that you understand my emotions better than me then you are quite the specimen.
                                 
                                 And once again the real shame is you believe that you do.
                                 
                                 You try and try to be philosophical and can't quite seem to get there.
                                 
                                 You may just want to give up.

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                                    Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    How dumb of a statement? WOW! I understand emotions better than you do. It isn't a matter whether or not, the emotions are YOURS or not.
                                    
                                    The emotion is the same in everyone. So get a life.

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                                       Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes everyone's emotions are the same.
                                       
                                       How could I have missed that.

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                              Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              The photo you chose for your avatar tells a lot about your emotions.

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                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Peace love and understanding Ralph.
                                 
                                 Amen..

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                     dostersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     have you ever disliked someone so much that you performed some crime against them?  I think that dislike qualifies as hate...

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                        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        But, you qualified it as any crime. Not all crime is hostile motivated.
                        
                        And, to answer your question- NO, I have not committed any crime against someone, because I disliked them.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know if it was a hate crime or not, but it certainly was a hateful thing to do to one's roommate. It clearly was something more than an innocent practical joke. Seems to me that the perpetrator wasn't exactly tolerant of gays. 
                  
                  There was a case reported on TV the other day about a grade school or high school boy who went home and put a bullet through his head after being bullied for being gay by school mates.

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   kazemaru2posted 14 years ago

   no it's more a murder-suicide caused by biases and tension.

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   sunforgedposted 14 years ago

   I wouldnt call it a Hate Crime, but I dont have the facts of the case or background story.
   
   This very same prank was considered a hilarious scene in the movie "American Pie" - in real life, not so funny. I would seriously doubt a logical connection can be made between this prank and the eventual reaction of the victim.
   
   Your personal debates on what a hate crime is are irrelevant. As the legal definition is not equal to the traditional meaning.
   
   Hate Crime NYS - http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/lega … s_2000.htm I dont see a connection between this crime and promoting intolerance and discrimination.
   
   In regards to "all crime against someone else is a hate crime" - would have to disagree strongly.
   
   I would judge most crime is based on a perceived need and a selfish conception of entitlement. Often the victim is nameless and unimportant to the perpetrator.

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   ahorsebackposted 14 years ago

   Of course this is a hate crime, why not, this boy could never hold office , get a government job  or any serious job or live a life of any kind of privacy after his , I am not gay but the same laws protect everyone. The idiousy of the free and uncontrolled use of the internet must be checked at least by the law . Would it be any different if he published the pictures in the news papers? Come on people where's your sense of social maturiy?

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    katiem2posted 14 years ago

    Hate is hate you can just feel it even when it's intentions are masked!
    
    Peace to all

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    rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

    here's an article about it. whatever anyone wants to call it, it's a sad commentary on privileged university students who find it a sport to play with someones private life. and those who try to decipher whether it was a hate crime ..
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyreg … _LO_MST_FB
    the comments to the article are worth reading.
    
    I'm a parent of two sons, I can't imagine getting that phone call. it's very sad.

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    khmohsinposted 14 years ago

    crime is crime, whatever it is. but the intensity of crime makes someone to respond in negative way.
    there are many sensitive people who cant afford whatever is going with them and finally and emotionally do suicide, though its extremely wrong.

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