Tulsa-What Hate Crime?

1. 61

   SpanStarposted 12 years ago

   When it comes to the Tulsa killings I really do believe I must be in the Twilight Zone.  Police saying they are not going to jump to conclusion about the killings being racially motivated when on the killer’s web site he writes that his father was killed by a F..king..N.gg.r.  Not an Asian, Not a Hispanic, Not An American Indian etc and so the only people who get murdered that had nothing to do with the death of his father are Black-Americans.  What More Does He Have To Do To Be Called A Hate Crime??
   
     http://news.yahoo.com/tulsa-police-shoo … 47590.html
   
   This web site says all he was trying to do was to get revenge for his father-Just Getting Revenge For His Father And So Kill ing Only Black People Can’t Possible Means He Hates Black People-Clearly Something Is Wrong With My Thinking Because This Sounds Like Hate To Me.
   
   My question for  this 19 year old is would it had been better if his father were killed by a White Person and if so would he have gone into the White community and killed a bunch of them because he was P.ssed?
   
   The above article says he’s Cherokee Indian and a good kid.  This guy didn’t care what your color was but from what I’ve seen He Did Care What Your Color Was Because Blacks Were All and Only He Shot!
   
   Do you as the perpetrator have to demand to be charged with a Hate Crime before anyone will even acknowledge that even a hate crime can exist??

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Wayne Brownposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Certainly the possibility exists for hate-crimes in our world. At the same time, do not confuse the illogical act of killing another person with some logical deductive process of reasoning.  Maybe you have never been to north Tulsa...it is extremely dominated by the black population thus "targets of opportunity" in that area would most likely be black as opposed to anything else. People who commit crimes are not the sharpest blades in the drawer. Few of them leave the surroundings they know especially when the ropes come untied and they take illogical actions.  This is not to say that the crimes are anything less than they are...one man killing another.  In the eyes of the law, that is a crime.  And like so many crimes, we the people, attempt to try it in the public forum and apply our own reasoning to it though we have little evidence and are acting mainly on hearsay. On that basis, we are probably not the ones best qualified to decided if it is or is not a hate-crime. WB

      replyreport
      1. 65

         Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I assume we can at least agree that a horrible crime was committed by a couple of deranged and/or not very bright individuals.
         
         If everybody who was bereaved went on a shooting rampage we'd all have to wear helmets and bullet proof vests.

         replyreport
      2. 61

         SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Wayne Brown,
         
         You have made some valid points however I don't agree with all of them. We are a society and in our growing up we are taught things we should not do. Murder is no little something we can say "oh well I just forgot about that." We treat children differently usually when it comes to crimes but if they decide to cross that line into murder than they have chosen to ignore the laws of the state and the people.
         
         Not being the best judge of crimes-I daresay if you are in a community where your life is threatened no one is more better to decide the circumstances of the crime than those who have to deal with it and if these crimes might extend to other states people need to be judging the circumstances.
         
         Not getting all the information-lots of juries don't get a lot of the information but they are asked by society to judge the circumstances.

         replyreport
   2. 61

      American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      While this should be charged as a hate crime, recent events over race may downplay this one and I would expect this story will drop off the face of the earth with the media real soon.
      The ivestigators may want to go down th revenge path and that may be part of the motivations, but if he wanted revenge, he would have shot the family of the guy who killed his Dad, or waited four more years and killed the guy himself.The guy that killed his father only got 6 years for that crime. A crime to itself if you ask me.
      
      But His FB postings were graphic. I saw them before FB took them down on Sunday. He was a disturbed dude and race was very clear on his mind. So he decides its time, what does he do, walk out the door and start shooting, NO. He and the roommate drive to the Black part of town before shooting anyone. That is clear intent on who he wanted to shoot.
      
      But here is the thing, it is a hate crime, race because his father was killed by a black man. Where is Sharpton, where is Jackson??

      replyreport
      1. 61

         SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You have made a number of good points. Your last paragraph pertaining to Mr. Al Sharpton and Mr. Jackson has me asking the question why would anyone want to work for people that hate them? And since these two clearly have a problem with Black people I most certainly wouldn't want to have anything to do with them.

         replyreport
         1. 61

            American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Span,
            
            Trust me, I do not want Sharpton or Jackson showing up. But they are making a major case out of Martin, which was not a race incident, but they are making it one. Yet here is a real race hate crime, and where are they, no where. That is my point.

            replyreport
            1. 61

               SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I for one do not accept the idea that it is not a race case. The focus primarily in the community were African-Americans as being the problem. Based on this fact it would appear that Zimmerman focused primarily on African Americans that makes it a race case.

               replyreport
               1. 61

                  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Span,
                  
                  I am not sure if you are understanding the entire case in Florida. The community is a multi-racial private gated community. There are two African-Americans on the HOA board.  do not agree with you that they were focused on African Americans.

                  replyreport
                  1. 61

                     SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     They have the freedom to disagree with me that however does not make him right. Justice usually isn't about statistics and percentages because justice in and of itself in this country has been wrong numerous times.
                     
                     Racism can exist in a multicultural environment that is what America is.

                     replyreport
                     1. 78

                        psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        There is a difference between the obvious fact that racism exists and the absolute certainty that it is part of a situation we know about only through hearsay.  It seems likely, but 'likely' is not 'certainly'.

                        replyreport
2. 81

   lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

   I heard that a street sign somewhere was changed to Trayvon Martin is a N.
   Just like the attack on women, this racism is just out of hand...they don't care who sees it, and it makes me wonder why.
   
   Normally, they keep this stuff hidden, that way they get to do things under the radar...why are they coming right out with it???
   
   Theory: Unless they can't help it, and it's a cosmic thing: The Apacolypse. Like in the Bible, when God made the Pharoah(sp) so stubborn. It always made me angry...like WHY make him be that way? Peoeple get hurt and killed!
   
   But a guy I read says it's "for the purpose of demonstration". Since we can't seem to get the message on our own,--no matter HOW many Avatars are sent---- we need a gd 2 by 4 to the head show us.
   
   It has to be so crazy until we say WTH is going on here???
   Just a theory.

   replyreport
   1. 61

      SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      lovemychris,
      
      As you have pointed out the hatred has never left America it has simply just been concealed.
      
      Usually the reason for out right lawlessness stems from the cues they take from our leaders are those who supposedly are serving all of Americans people. With the disrespect of the American president especially by other political figures sends a message to those who would do evil-why not?
      
      This venomous attitude that hate crazed people presenting to the public always filters down to the young members in our society. American children being pulled into insanity because we choose to revel in hate. It is almost humorous to think that we call ourselves UNITED states!

      replyreport
      1. 81

         lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, but you know what they say....everything struggles to survive...even hate. Maybe even especially hate.
         It seems that it is going to reach such a crescendo, that we will all say Enough!
         
         But it has to be once and for all. Like, no more....ever.

         replyreport
         1. 61

            SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That is the hope Lovemychris, but I can't see it happening.  Just look back in time at all those that tried to change mankind even Jesus/God himself.  Too many men and women died hoping to bring a better to tomorrow and time and time again we always come right back here.
            
            There will be more generations in the future dealing with this same old problem-that I can see.

            replyreport
3. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   I think the justice system will work it out in this case as the facts are pretty well known.  I am not sure if it stands as a hate crime if mental illness can be proven.

   replyreport
4. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   I don't think we should generalize to all humanity from one man who had recently suffered two bereavements, one a suicide that happened in his presence.

   replyreport
   1. 81

      lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's a shocking "outing" of it that is happening lately psyche....just like the shocking "outing" of misogyny.
      
      Don't you hear people saying....I thought we had dealt with this long ago???
      
      Put it this way: to me, it is abnormal behavior....on a distrubing scale.

      replyreport
      1. 61

         SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It is as you put it.  I like others have been around during the riots and the marches we have seened the face of hate up close and hate cares for no one and nothing-hate only cares about getting it's way.
         
         You are right to be concerned just look at what hate did in the civil war, turn brother against brother, father against son, did hate care that so many lives were lost-not even a little bit.

         replyreport
   2. 61

      SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      psycheskinner,
      
      I am afraid in every situation the problem is always one person's situation, one person circumstance while dividing lines have always been drawn. We solve nothing by constantly pretending racism isn't a major factor in our culture and perhaps around the world. We always look for something else other than the truth-well he lost his ballpoint pen you can understand how that would be upsetting-NO! Well he just broke up with his girlfriend of course that'll make anyone a little crazy-NO.
      
      People have suffered horrendous pain, tragedy at the hands of criminals, psychos and yet they did not display hatred for strangers. How many veterans have come back from war and though some have flipped out because they couldn't cope we can understand their circumstances it is dramatic thing to be in war but to be sitting back enjoying the same freedoms as everyone else then somehow certain people think they are privileged to do harm to people they never met-WRONG!

      replyreport
5. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   The fact that we are all individuals does not mean you can generalize from one individual to the state of society.  People have also always caved under the pressure and killed people.  Some people are stronger, others less strong, some experience much trauma and others little.  Such is the human condition.  (And I think having one's girlfriend shoot herself dead right in front of you is a little more traumatic that "breaking up".)

   replyreport
   1. 61

      SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm afraid it is not generalization when it is consistently happening.

      replyreport