Should there not be some sort of action by our justice department against the New Black Panthers and Spike Lee for fomenting vigilante justice? This is a crime after all to conspire someones death.
I agree action is slow on the other side of this issue but this sort of response is reprehensible.
Yes, and at the risk of sounding callous, to say the least, without offense, it's reverse prejudice. It's been around a long time, ever since affirmative action. I understand but it's still wrong, as you said.
Totally against what they have done but it is not a hate crime. If it targets him just because he was of a certain race then it would be a hate crime. I don't believe this does. If the case had not been mishandled at the beginning it would not be in the news like this.
Do you consider it a hate crime when anti-abortion protesters publish the names and addresses of doctors?
I disagree with them doing that yes and I have a problem with "hate crime".
Crime is crime and trying to make it Orwellian doesn't help anything or anyone.
Yes, I consider that a hate crime. They hate the doctors. All crime is born of some kind of hate.
Well, they've been doing it since 1973! Where have all you people who want the system to work for Zimmerman been since then?
They have basically scared all the abortion clinics away....under threat of violence and death...by guns, I migh add.
Where has your cry for letting the system work been? Or is it Ok for "god-fearing" people to take their idea of justice into their own hands?
Chris.....why do you keep throwing the same stuff at people after they tell you they don't support that?
And why does that make it ok for The Black Panthers and Spike to try and have a man murdered in the street. Because the logic of your argument is that it's justice if they string Zimmerman up with no trial and what I say is you must obey the law. If it's broke fix it but you can't just have anrachy. Sorry.
But Zimmerman was meting out vigilante justice, seemingly without any repercussions as far as the law is concerned.
Why shouldn't everybody do the same without fear of retribution?
Because vigilante justice is wrong, period.
But I'm not saying that what Zimmerman did was vigilante justice--I'm waiting until all the facts are out, not just the rumors and innuendos that being thrown out left and right...from both sides of this tragedy.
Zimmerman was told by his local 9-11 to back off. He was wrong not to do so. There are a lot of conflicting testimonies as to what happened after but then end result was Travon Martin is dead.
Now.......if you listen to a certain ideology there was actually a mob of white folks buying tickets to watch. We have people like Al Sharpton whipping things up.
Interesting that he is doing in fact and in the open what others will say Rush Limbaugh is doing when in fact he doesn't.
I think actually it should, groups that are advocating violence against Zimmerman should be charged, that is incitement to violence regardless of the target.
Yes, I think what they are doing is a hate crime because, let's be honest here, if Zimmerman had been the same race as Martin, the BP and Spike Lee wouldn't have even gotten involved.
I saw an article the other day that said Spike Lee posted the address of the wrong Zimmerman, and that family was going through all sorts of harassment. He apologized to them, but still...this is wrong whatever way you want to look at it.
The only possible outcome of calling for people to bypass due process will be more resentment toward the black race. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
"Is not calling for vigilante justice a form of "hate crime"? »
Do you honestly think that blacks and liberals are the only ones accused of vigilante justice? Or am I reading your comment wrong?
Yes, when blacks and liberals do it, it's "vigilanti-ism". When whites or conservatives do it, it's free speech and second amendment rights.
So you don't think what the Black Panthers and Spike Lee did was vigilante justice? What would you call it then?
Obviously, I don't agree with you...there are a whole lot of non-black conservative people who think that what Zimmerman did was vigilante justice.
I just don't agree with jumping to conclusions, until all the facts are public. Spike Lee could've gotten innocent members of a family harmed by posting their address like he did--obviously he didn't wait for the facts, did he?
I would call it a response to centuries of like-minded justice system behavior.
Try and imagine your kid is killed, and people are more concerned with the rights of the killer.
No, what SL and BP did wasn't right, and no, it's not the answer....but what is?
Until there is fairness and equal treatment, what do you want people to do?
"wait for the system to work".....?
The system has been proven not to work too many times for that to fly.
Zimmerman could end this whole thing right now by coming clean and taking responsibility for what he did.
But he won't.
He will use the system of Just-Us that is provided for him, as George Carlin said: "It's a big ole club, and you aint in it".
Well, obviously-- he's in it. So--where is the justice for Trayvon and his family?
No Chris I want to know the facts before he is stoned to death in the square.
Do you know the fats? All of them? I hardly think so.
LMC - On one hand you say what Lee did was wrong and on the other hand you defend his having done it. You automatically equate black with liberal and white with conservative which has nothing to do with the argument. And I promise you, Lee is not a product of the centuries of prejudice. He just acts like a thug and perpetuates the stigma of the violent black man whom everyone who walks the streets should fear. He needs to grow up and change the world because he's in a position to do so. Instead he makes movies perpetuating violent power and adds nothing good to society.
I KNOW that the system does not always work...my own children were victims of a small-minded judge, who was a big fish in a small pond...
I KNOW that there are systems that are bad, that need cleaned up. Maybe this is one in this county, I don't know yet. I will wait until more facts come out.
I feel horribly about what happened to this young man, but playing the race card, and using vigilante justice is not the way to handle his death. I don't think all the hate being spewed helps his family, either.
Which whites or conservatives did it and where. Already answered the abortion thing Chris so do something else. That makes sense.
You are doing it. You are saying...hey, this guy who is white deserves to have the benefit of the doubt, after we know he killed a kid.
But let's suggest that BP and Spike Lee are guilty of hate crimes.
And what would you like me to do? Stop speaking?
I don't want you to stop speaking, I love it when you peck away at your keys.
I don't want him to stop speaking either. I just want him to grow up and get some common sense.
Whichever. I wasn't making a judgement one way or the other. Chris is just so over the top left as to not even make rational sense from time to time.
AKA "due process."
I'm not saying he shouldn't be arrested and charged...actually I'm specifically saying he should be, as opposed to any other form of action being taken against him.
I didn't say that because he was white. In case you aren't aware HE ISN'T WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is Hispanic.
The New Black Panthers have placed a one million dollar bounty on a mans head. It makes no difference if he is black, white, or a one-horned one- eyed flying purple people eater it is wrong and is inciting violence and murder.
It's what you would otherwise call hate speech but because you are licking your lips at the thought they will string this guy up in the street you don't care.
Oh by the way George Zimmerman is also a registered Democrat. Change your tune now?
See you just blew that off and turned it back on me. You have nothing you just don't like the idea a conservative might be in the right here.
I am starting to become jaded with the idea of a hate crime. Is regular ol' murder really that much "better" than murder for racial reasons that it calls for a lesser sentence?
I do agree with you. The families of murder victims are just as devastated, either way, aren't they? And the victims are just as dead...
People who kill are twisted in the mind in one way or another--why is the victim of a supposed "hate crime" anymore hated than the wife or husband of a crazy spouse...or someone who goes in and kills everyone in his workplace?
We should believe everything the media tells us, they had it right in the Tawana Brawley case and don't forget those damn Duke Lacrosse players!
For the record, anyone who defends Zimmerman is in the wrong.
And anyone who defends this system is in the wrong.
The fact that this happened in 2012 is enough to prove that point.
And we would probably be sick to know what goes on in our Prison-For-Profit lock up the "others" system of Just Us.
"you are licking your lips at the thought they will string this guy up in the street you don't care."
I see you are adopting Fox tactics. Not surprising. Tawana Brawley...that was on Fox too.
He killed a 17 yr old kid--chased him with a gun and bang bang. What are you trying to decide...why he killed him? 240 pd man vs 120 pd kid. Gun vs skittles.
And I have no common sense? smh
Ok, thanks for clearing it all up for us.
Oh, LMC. What are we going to do with you? The point is that everyone deserves their day in court. You want it for the other guy but not for this guy. We're not debating whether or not the police screwed up or whether or not he killed the boy. Only that vigilante justice, hate speech, inciting riot is not going to make things better. You know this. Why do you insist on playing devil's advocate even when you know what you're saying doesn't hold water?
So the T Brawley case was on Fox. It was still true. And anyone who defends this system? If you have a better one, I'd love to hear it. No really, Let's hear it.
By the way FOX News didn't exist in 1987, but I'm sure you knew that.
Well, yeah...but their talking heads are saying this is just like Tawana Brawley....just like you!
Yeah, on another thread...didn't you? Someone did.
Please, never go away, we need your insights.
Your welks...here's more:
"US has 25% of world prison population. average $50,000 per prisoner per year not counting court costs etc 74% non violent."
Did you know, we have more people locked up than Stalins Gulag??
Land of the Free? Yeah...free labor.
We should send them all to Boston to live.
well dang and double dang!
I, LMC, PNAC-Hater, Neo-Kook Hater, Zionist-Hater......I agree with Bill Kristol!
“Those who want to indict the whole society for this death," Kristol said on Fox News Sunday.
That is exactly right. Indict, Accept, and Change.
So we really shouldn't waste any time actually trying to have a fair trial? Just give him to the Panthers right?
I am beginning to get the idea that LMC just wants to introduce a little chaos, like the Joker.
Not sure how long you have been coming here but It does not matter what you say, LMC will argue with you and blame everyone
JS - Didn't take you long. The only down side is she doesn't do it to introduce chaos, she really is a diehard.
That's a sentence fragment. I don't even know what it means by itself. "Those who want to indict the whole society for this death" are what? Right? Wrong? Good dancers?
You know, I'm seeing so much race segregation going on right out in the open now, like I've never noticed before. For instance, there's a payday loan type of company that was created, operates and serves Native Americans and they are advertised on TV every few minutes on some days. The background music is drums in a tribal beat and the pictures are obviously race-inspired. There are also web sites, like one particular site that's only for single black people to meet each other.
Let me add here that I really don't care if they operate businesses for certain races - as long as all races can be equally served there. They just don't advertise for other races to use them; it's business.
I only bring these up because every time I see their ads, my mind says the same thing, "If I set up a dating site for white people, someone would have it taken down immediately as a hate site."
Instead of growing away from racism, we're taking steps backward through loopholes and marketing, and crime.
I'l stand with the people who lost a son, and the people who have endured centuries of racism and horrible treatment by a racist system.
Zimmy can have his day in court...he should be locked up until then, like any other murderer would be.
I will find Kristol's quote for you, but I'm sure most of you watched it today on Fox Sunday anyway
"It was right to raise alarms at first but now it is just demagoguery, I think, mostly on the side of those who want to indict the whole society for this death," Kristol said on Fox News Sunday."
I am one who wants to indict the whole society. And long overdue IMO.
Vigilante justice doesn't make me feel terribly safe. Spike Lee may be a great film maker, but does he have all the facts about this death or was he just saying whatever came into his mind? His tweeting the wrong address for Mr. Zimmerman without consequences is frightening. What if someone doesn't hear his apology and harms the couple who live at that address? Who will reimburse them for the mental anguish caused by careless words. Vigilante justice may get the bad guy, but at what expense to everyone else.
"A small homemade bomb exploded outside of a Planned Parenthood office in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, on Sunday evening, local media reported. The explosive device, which was placed on a window sill, went off and started a small fire that triggered alarms and brought the local fire department to the scene. There were no reported injuries, and the building was closed at the time. Local police are investigating.
The office that was attacked is now "temporarily closed," according to the welcome recording on its voicemail system. I've put in a request for comment to Stephanie Wilson, a spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood Wisconsin. I'll update this post if she responds. I've also asked the local police department for more details and will update if I hear back."
And so it goes on......
So basically because some nut....although to you he is a mainstream conservative...popped off a bomb, then by your logic anyone liberal can do anything they want to and if they say anything you are going to waggle that incident in their face. That to you is justice???????
Do you not even realize how warped that is?
They've been doing it since 1973....
Where's the outrage from those who want to excoriate Spike Lee?
that's my point.
There is this thing called dealing with the moment and moving on. Is there anyone on these forums you have spoken to who supports the event you posted? No.
Now.....did Spike Lee do something wrong or not?
Is that your whole thing? The abortion issue?
I don't agree with the practice but I would never support or cheer those who do that. Murder is murder whether it hasn't left the womb or not.
Just like "hate speech" is "hate speech".
Wrong is wrong no matter what the party. To ignore a wrong because someone else did a wrong......
You remember that two wrongs don't make a right thing?
OK...you exoriate Lee, but make excuses for Zimmerman....who are you to lecture?
Which excuse for Zimmerman did I make other than we don't know all the facts?
That's the truth. This needs investigation not a lynch mob. that's the whole point.
Zimmerman and his defenders are the lynch mob. IMO
So the proper thing then is just let the Panters have him?
The proper thing to do is to arrest him for murder. OK-- make it manslaughter, like the arrersting officer suggested.
What I think is that Zimmerman can never get a fair trial now. Even those on this forum who somewhat defend him think he's guilty. Why? Because the media says so? The police didn't think so, or they would have arrested him. Did they muck up the investigation? Maybe, but who says they did? The media? Did Trayvon attack Zimmerman? We don't know. This whole incident is being investigated and tried by the media and race baiters who stand to gain politically and monetarily by stirring this pot. Both sides of this argument have been guilty of keeping this in the news, in our faces day after day. Why? To call attention to an injustice? Okay, but there were about 13,000 murders in the U.S. in 2010, according to the latest FBI statistics, and of those, 6,000 victims were white, and 7,000 were black/non-white. Funny how we don't see this statistic, let alone the individual cases, being touted as injustices. I really, REALLY, hurt for Trayvon's family. No parent should ever suffer the loss of their child, especially at the hands of another person. But we simply don't have the facts. The media is not qualified to investigate murders, and yet they have tried and convicted George Zimmerman. You wanna indict someone? How about every news source that perpetuated rumors, inaccuracies, and flat out lies that led to this whole mess. My niece was raped repeatedly, murdered, and left in a dumpster in 1991. It was on page 5 of the local paper. They found a story here in the Zimmerman case that will cause division and widen the gap between "them and us", and they are doing what they do best: manipulate people.
Zimmerman did not tell the truth about his injuries. There was no broken nose.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/322330/ … police.htm
http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/art … -injuries-
The funeral director who analyzed Martin's body also said Zimmerman's story did not make sense. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa … bled=false
I geuss they want him to have his day in court so he can tell his lies there.
Excuse me....ever hear of testa-lying? The police are trained in it.
This Zimmerman guy is well-connected. I don't think justice exists for people like him. They get away with everything.
This case is shining the light on it.
I believe anyone does know that vigilante justice would not be acceptable in our society. Everyone knows that the Black Panther party is an extreme group but unless I'm mistaken what Black Panther party members said regarding Zimmerman was that they were seeking the apprehension and the arrest of Zimmerman. I believe if it was an actual death threat contract the Black Panther party members would be in jail.
You are mistaken. The bounty was for Zimmerman delivered to the BP party. What would happen next was left unsaid.
No I'm Not Mistaken I saw the newcast where they stated actually what I said. Are you automatically assuming that this Zimmerman will be killed or injured because he's in the company of the Black Panther Party?
I think you're right - I've finally been sucked in by false information.
A dozen different links I just looked up all say the bounty is for the "capture" of Zimmerman. Unsaid is still what happens after the capture, although the comment from the New Black Panther party was "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth".
Obviously, a citizens arrest and turning him over to the police is worthless; the police don't want him at this time and would just turn him loose again. The BP group knows this, so what DO they want? Outside of publicity, of course - maybe that's the only thing it is about.
I also agree completely that if there were an actual and obvious death threat - a contract mob style - someone would be in jail.
I'm just completly sick and fed up with this whole media and misinformation thing. I heard today that major news services have apologized for editing the 911 tape to make Zimmerman sound racist, for "enhancing" the recording of his "racist mutterings" that didn't happen and now agree that the back of his head did show damage in the video taken and a medic did treat his broken nose.
I don't know if any of that is true, and I don't care anymore. I'll wait for the report from the special investigator and see what happens in the trial, if any. The media is of no more value than the internet information and now they've got me doing it too. For shame, Wilderness!
Eric holder would not do it I don't believe. When they engaged in voter intimidation in Pa. he took a pass citing "his people".
Racism? You bet! On his part.
Errrr, that "pass" was decided by the Bush Justice dpt.
Holder simply went along with their finding.
It was right-wingers who went bat crap crazy when they saw a chance to scream reverse racism.
At the same time Beckles was screaming Commie at Van Jones,and he lost his job for it.
But, Romneys money-hiding past is "off limits".
And Santorums despicable preacher is not paraded on the nightly news.
Double Standard, at the least.
New Black Panther Party Incidents--per Wikipedia:
During the 2008 presidential election, poll watchers found two New Black Panther militia members shouting racial slurs outside a polling place in Philadelphia. One of the two was a credentialed poll watcher, while the other was a New Black Panther member who had brought a police-style nightstick baton. A University of Pennsylvania student, Stephen Robert Morse, was hired by the local Republican Party on behalf of the John McCain presidential campaign to film the incident. His video aired on several news outlets throughout the country. Republican poll watcher Chris Hill stated that voters had been complaining about intimidation, while the District Attorney's office stated that they had not been contacted by any voters. The New Black Panther with the nightstick was escorted away by the police.
On January 7, 2009, the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) filed a civil suit against the New Black Panther Party and three of its members alleging violations of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 over the incident at the Philadelphia polling place. The suit accused members King Samir Shabazz and Jerry Jackson of being outside a polling location wearing the uniform of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, and said "that Shabazz repeatedly brandished a police-style baton weapon. The suit sought an injunction preventing further violations of the Voting Rights Act. After the defendants did not appear for court, a default judgment was entered. On May 29, 2009, the Department of Justice requested and received an injunction against the member who had carried the nightstick, but against the advice of prosecutors who had worked on the case, department superiors ordered the suit dropped against the remaining members. On July 6, 2010, J. Christian Adams, a former lawyer for the Justice Department, testified before the Commission on Civil Rights and alleged that the case was dropped because the Justice Department did not want to protect the civil rights of white people. Former Civil Rights Division Voting Section Chief Christopher Coates testified on September 24, 2010, that the case was dismissed because of "deep seated hostility to the equal enforcement of the Voting Rights Act against racial minorities." Abigail Thernstrom, the Republican-appointed vice chairwoman of the Commission who has "recently voted consistently with the Democrats" on the Commission, dismissed Adam's allegations and said the Department's resources were better spent elsewhere, given that the evidence did not meet the "very high" legal standards to support voter intimidation: "After months of hearing, testimony and investigation, no one has produced any actual evidence that any voters were too scared to cast their ballots."
According to an April 23, 2010 press release from the New Black Panther Party, the Philadelphia member involved in the nightstick incident was suspended until January 2010. "The New Black Panther Party made it clear then and now we don't support voter intimidation...Correctly the charges against the entire organization and the chairman were dropped. The actions of one individual cannot be attributed to an entire organization any more than every act of any member of the Catholic Church be charged to the Vatican."
 Bounty for George Zimmerman's Capture
Another controversy occurred in 2012 after the NBPP offered a $10,000 bounty for the "legal citizen's arrest" of George Zimmerman, the alleged perpetrator of the shooting of Trayvon Martin. The group also stated that it believed in "a life for a life". The bounty offer was condemned and repudiated by Martin's family and others, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson. The NBPP's organizer, Mikhail Mohammed, said that the U. S. Constitution granted the right to a citizen's arrest, but he also said that "I don't obey the white man's law, I don't follow the American law.
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