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Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'
NEW YORK Amazon is selling a self-published book defending pedophiles, sparking discussions about the retailer's obligation to vet items before they are sold in its online stores, and threats of boycott from Amazon customers if the book is not removed.
The book, " The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: a Child-lover's Code of Conduct" by Philip R. Greaves II, offers advice to pedophiles afraid of becoming the center of retaliation. It is an electronic book available for Amazon.com Inc.'s Kindle e-reader.
I am going to guess that the people who purchase the book will end up on the red list.
Like people who purchase or check out The Anarchist Cook Book... they get flagged.
They should sell all they can and track the buyers, so they can be arrested. If they are reading about it, they are more than likely doing it or will be.
Now where did we leave those pitchforks and torches?
Have you ever read a murder mystery?
Look, I'm just as disgusted as you are, but, just like letting the idiot KKK march, there are larger issues here.
I certainly don't agree with the book but I do agree with them defending freedom of speech. It doesn't sound like it is promoting pedophilia.
I do not buy from amazon because of their failure to vet sellers. We got a rip of knock of illegal item from a seller and Amazon did not give two shits. Gave the fakes to trading standards, lost our money and never bought from Amazon again. Not that I wont try to make money from em, guess I am a hypocrite but I don't hold a gun to anyone's head and force them to buy.
Thats kind like me with Ipod or most apple products. I will never spend a dime on their products or itunes, but I am not against using it. It would be stupid not to use to your benefit if it's there, just don't spend money on it
Most of this information is readily available online, thats the even funnier part.
Ok emotional response over, went and had a read of the article now. The point that banning any book that is legal to sell is censorship to Amazon is acceptable to me. I do wonder if it is possible to deem a book illegal?
That is really the only option besides accepting that this guy wrote a poorly spelled book on a very troubling subject. I would not be surprised if the gets death threats but thats down to him, not amazon.
Let me ask you this...do pornographic magazines and books bother you? I think any kind of sexual objectification and abuse is wrong, so if they don't sell this, they need to not sell smut books either.
In some countries, 13 is the legal age for marriage, so what is immoral and illegal here in the U.S. is not in other countries.
Do you agree with suppression of other people's rights?
Yes, because by all accounts, America claims to be more civilized than other Nations. There are too many Nations around the Globe, still operating under "religious" dictatorship, where the rules of some god's words can kill someone who doesn't believe.
Morals are tied to actions, not thoughts.
The heck with freedom of speech and first amendment rights. These laws were not made to protect this type of perversion. Do you even think before you quote freedom of speech? This is disgusting. Not people who have been fantasizing about having sex with children have a guide to how to go about it. Is there any type of protest that can be done?
The book is to show them how to cope after they have been caught, not how to be pedophiles, as far as I know since I haven't read the book. Have you?
I will always be against banning books.
Huh, I'll bet if someone wrote a step-by-step guide on how to fool airport security, take over a plane and fly it into a tall building, someone would do something about it despite the whole freedom of speech schtick.
Of all the people objecting vigorously to this book, I wonder how many had voluntary sexual experiences before the age of 18...
That is not pedophilia....unless you're referring to "voluntary" experiences between a minor and an adult. There is no such thing.
not the same thing and you know it. pedophilia involves children with adults. if a child experiments with kissing or playing doctor...its usually with another child and is completely innocent.
there's no comparison here at all.
I just hope people do not boycott Amazon seeing as many of us here make our living through being an Amazon affiliate.
However, my tuppence worth is that allowing he publication of this book is wrong, both legally and morally. Pedophiles don't just stick to teenagers, despite what some of the comments here might lead you to believe. They want to have sex with babies and toddlers too. They are society's scum IMO and they deserve everything coming to them once caught. I will give them all the death penalty.
UW...books are powerful tools and though it may not be the crime itself, it is the guide. I mean, if I want to learn how to become a published author, or a great photographer, I'm going to buy a book. Its how we learn. This author knows that, so does Amazon. I really don't think there is any argument here.
Which is why governments and others try to ban books. I still don't support book banning.
Giving it all sorts of negative publicity is fine by me and condemning the content.
red flagging books is a good idea, but what government can put the money and effort into that kind of an operation. there is just no easy answer but this should not be acceptable to amazon and im glad to read that they finally removed it, even if it was with reluctance. its actually scary because obviously amazon knew they could profit with such a book which tells me that they have done their research and know how many people would actually be drawn to this subject. scary, scary, disgusting world we live in.
this is whats wrong with us 'free countries' in my opinion! We are all self righteously outraged when these things happen, but will defend free speech to the death, even if it unequivocally contradicts what we stand for. amazon should be ashamed and i don't give a damn about free speech in this instance, this is disgraceful and i think amazon will pay for the mistake.
The fact that someone may benefit in monetary gain from a book of this nature and even the publicity it is receiving here is totally abhorrent. Freedom of speech is one thing but being able to showcase and perhaps even gain from something of this nature is just wrong.
Again, I repeat. Has anyone actually read this book?
the problem with reading it is that we would be inadvertently supporting the writer, right? a book that has a title like that is pretty easy to divine. especially where he writes "i just want the world to understand that we are misunderstood and that 'pedophilia' literally means 'love for children'". He is trying to make a point that could very easily make pedophilia a very rational and even 'normal' thing in the mind of someone who is inclined towards children. in my opinion, a very dangerous book regardless of whats in it.
Why would anyone want to? I have to agree with megs78, I don't want to support anyone who promotes paedophilia.
UW, this is the reason I posted the above link, about the book being removed.
I didn't want to write an opinion until I'd either read the book or seen an opinion review by someone who had - although I believe that most reviews were by outraged people who'd never actually read the book.
As a mother, I am very much against paedophilia. But I realize that, like many fetishes and issues in life, people who suffer from it must also find ways to deal with it. I presume that it must have been vetted in some way by Amazon first, meaning that the material can't be illegal. And if the book helped someone who had a history or was considering committing paedophilia to not do it or deal with it in some other way, we'll never know, will we? Especially now that it's been removed because of people who've never read it.
This is absolutely a shock to the conscience. This is a book about the defense of pedophilia. There is no defense to this illness. Pedophiles are sick individuals who need treatment from a professional. It's a sad, horrible situation and this book certainly can't be helping anyone, not the offender OR the child victim! I am anxious to discuss this with one of my CJ professors who is also a psychologist that has worked with many criminals with mental illness. I remember him talking about how the ACLU constantly defends the "boylovers" group of America (or whatever the name of it is). I'm sure they'll get involved with defending the rights of this book, if they haven't already. With all their manpower, I wish they'd find a more formidable cause.
Another thought - I highly doubt many pedophiles would buy this book. Could you imagine their home being searched and law enforcement finding a copy? Exhibit A! Many pedophiles would be clever enough not to keep a copy of this because it screams they're into pedophilia.
I am very disgusted that Amazon didn't have the sense upfront not to sell this, but I'm glad the finally took it down. They are a privately owned business and censorship is not an issue in the private sector. What a terrible business move, especially before Christmas when parents are purchasing toys for their children online.
but the book was available through kindle so no risk of finding a copy. its even more dangerous because a potential customer wouldn't have to worry about any one seeing them buy it. we live in an anonymous world now and it really allows people to step out of their norm and do things that maybe they wouldn't normally do.
Many warrants include seizing electronics which may serve to store illegal material. I believe Kindles have the ability to store photos, so in most instances, a Kindle would be fair game.
People lôve son of virgin, i wonder why they bother with pedophiles?oh wait one religion has pedophile prophet. its just busines anyway .
since Amazon doesn't sell porn I wondered why this was deemed appropriate myself.
Some have suggested that it may be part of a "sting" operation by authorities.
I don't think they should be selling myself.
This is one of those issues that I hate having to support. It's like marching KKK folk. I hate it, I wish it did not exist but Amazon is right.
Spot on. I don't like the sound of this book no matter what the information within it is. I personally would not buy, read or give this book-- ever. But, I do not support book banning.
This has got to depend on whether it actually promotes paedophilia, or if it tells them how to groom children or something.
Someone else said this is about helping them to cope with life after they have been arrested and served their time, which is very different indeed.
I bet amazon put this book on sale knowing that there would be an outcry and that they would take it off sale again pretty much straight away. They do say that bad publicity is better than no publicity.
Amazon is not the U.S. government.
They are a business, and are not required to sell anything they don't feel like selling. Frankly, this assertion that Amazon is censoring anything is the same claim angry hubbers make when HP pulls one of their hubs.
People need to learn the difference between government censorship and the right of a company to choose what it wants to sell.
U.S. citizens have the right to write smut and worse if they want. Bookstores don't have to sell it for them. That is the nature of our free society.
I agree with the prior post, I should have paid attention to the name. But, oddly enough, I am a mother of a young son and read this book. The title made me squirm in disgust, and I wanted to know what is in it to cause such drama. So I read it and can clearly see now WHY it causes such intense debate, although quite an interesting read. It doesn't speak so much on the how to get away with it, but the how to deal with the aftermath of being convicted of child predatation.
Either way, I don't approve of it or disapprove of it. That's the nature of our society. We can freely write whatever it is we want, of course that's not without recourse.
I can't believe Amazon defended the book based on not wanting to censor. That's stupid, Amazon is not a government. If a government had wanted to censor political books then I would be upset but this ebook is for pedophiles. I see no redeeming value in it.
Now that Amazon has bowed to the pressure, may I point out that one of the most popular genres at Amazon is one that describes clever ways to murder other people and possibly get away with it. Plans and preparations are described in great detail and police forensic techniques are also laid bare, teaching murderers even more about their craft.
Now that our collective outrage has removed this other insult, I hope you will join me in demanding that Amazon ban these so-called 'detective" novels.
After that, we can move on to getting rid of other things we don't like. It will be quite exciting and great fun.
Yup, that is the trouble with censorship. Once you do it once, there is no limit to how far it will go. There is always something out there that someone thinks should not be out there, always.
BTW, Amazon DOES sell porn, both videos and books, search and see.
Yes. It also sells that disgusting "Bible".
Several years back, in my home town, the wife of someone I know very well murdered her two children. It was truly awful. She was a great proponent of this "Bible" book and read it every day. It's quite possible that this evil book helped give her the idea that her children were possessed by Satan.
This happens now and then all across this great land and there is little doubt that he "Bible" plays a part in it. Yes, of course these people are tragically ill, but this book helps them see their insanity as being more normal.
We need to ban that too. And these "churches". I'm sure there is more evil we can root out.
Amazon sells porn er...that's good to know for research purposes! lol!
It may be better to shop at your local porn dealer and pick up a lottery ticket!
Two really lucky people will appear in Lansing this afternoon to collect a stunning total of $266 million in lottery winnings.
One bought a $140-million winning Mega Millions ticket at a convenience store in Gladstone in the Upper Peninsula. The other bought a Powerball ticket worth $126 million at a Highland Park porn shop.
They've kept their identities secret, but they will be revealed today at a 1:30 p.m. ceremony at Lottery headquarters.
Read more: Lottery winners to be revealed this afternoon in Lansing | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20101112/N … z154sKzqJM
The author of the book was on the (UK) news yesterday. He didn't particularly defend his book, just said what it was about. He wrote it to help pedophiles avoid detection (his words) and to suggest a better way to practice. He also felt that if a child wasn't overly disturbed by being sexually abused, the perpetrator shouldn't be jailed, though if the child was upset, maybe a little jail time.
One sub-title was: A Child-Lover's Code of Conduct - there is no code. Detailing how to behave when abusing children? How about a simple - it's illegal to have intercourse or engage in any acts of a sexual nature with a child. That's the code of conduct.
At the end of the day, the book was inappropriate, however you look at it. As for freedom of speech - you guys telling me that a pedophile could set up in the town center and start extolling the virtues of the rape and abuse of children and no one would say anything, or that he/she has a right due to the freedom of speech bill?
Beyond all that, a book will not encourage a pedophile. They are already wired, the conclusion of what they do or will do in the future is a foregone conclusion - no book will alter their path or make them worse or more prolific.
YAY frogdropping!!! I am totally psyched that you wrote that. We are so screwed up as a society, I can't even speak right now I'm so angry about this whole thing. Free speech can go out the damned window when it comes to things like this. once again Froggie, thanks for standing up!
lol Megs we have about the same attitude in the UK tbh. Everyone's got an opinion and entitled to it but ... where we differ is partly cultural, partly legislation. You could not, in a million years, expect to get on a soap box and start spouting crud about something abhorrent, illegal or inappropriate. A lynching would ensue.
Plus here you cannot inflame, behave in a manner that is likely to result in a riot, cause a public disturbance or disturb other's right to peace.
I actually don't disagree with the US freedom of speech bill - I would just expect American residents to use common sense. Writing a book about how to rape and abuse children, an act which is both abhorrent and illegal, and then folks saying 'ohhhh but what about the authors freedom of speech?!' is a reaction that is not in keeping with common sense.
See - child abuse is not acceptable, it is not legal or endorsed in any way. In a word it's inhuman.
Therefore when an individual or collective wishes to exercise their right to freedom of speech, providing it is within the realms of accepted, legal and cultural parameters - knock yourself out.
Pedophiles are a world away from any of those things.
amen sister! I agree with everything you say Frogdropping! I have the same ideas about free speech, but only if it doesn't hurt vulnerable demographics. We are a great country, but we are just a little confused sometimes about what to do in situations like this.
Ok, I agree, child abuse is not acceptable.
But either is murder, yet nobody wants to ban detective novels.
Yes, I feel very differently about that too, but why? Why is it OK to have books about murder but not about this? Why can I read the detective novel or even a true story about real murders and not be disgusted? Is it just conditioning? Have we become inured to murder, desensitized?
Shouldn't I feel the same way about both subjects? Why don't I?
Ok, so you have a point with the murder angle. But I think the difference about this and the reason why people are so outraged, is that pedophilia involves solely the violation of children.
Murder can be about moments of passion and anger and I believe that most people can actually picture themselves murdering if put in the worst position (such as finding out your child has been molested, for example). But most people could not picture themselves as a pedophile and it disgusts and terrifies that anyone would prey on children in that fashion. I think thats the difference.
Is that it? Is it because we can see ourselves killing?
The wife of someone I knew very well killed her two children. It was one of those tragic religion gone bad things where she thought they were possessed.
Another friend got cheated in a business deal and blew away one of his partners with a gun.
I really cannot see myself doing either of those things, but neither of them really hit me in the way that this completely unrelated Amazon thing does. I agree that what you say is true, but it's not enough to totally explain it. There is more to it, and I do not know what it is.
Brenda says "Legitimatizing something by not banning it is akin to giving the green go-ahead light."
Do we legitimatize murder and mayhem to some degree? Should we?
I think we do to some extent.
Take, for instance, the movies "Natural Born Killers" and "Hostel" and "Saw", etc., and maybe "Kill Bill", etc..
Anytime the message of evil always winning is perpetuated and the criminals never brought to justice, it's a bad thing. (I'm not sure if the criminals in Natural Born Killers ever got their punishment or not, been a while since I saw it...)
But anyway, for the most part, murder is not condoned in society.
Most books about murder are mysteries that show how the killer was caught, right?
Whereas, these days, several sorts of immorality is becoming condoned. Like that actor who raped that young girl....what's his name...?
And like the push for acceptance of many things that are just wrong.
That Natural Born Killers movie was deeply disturbing to me.
But I wouldn't want to ban it. Well, I would, but I can't square that with my principles.
I am not sure what to do about pedophiles. They have mental problems. Is it possible that some might control themselves through fantasy? I'm reminded of "A mental murder a day keeps the doctor away".
But, I also agree that making it easy could help someone develop tendencies. Would they anyway? I sure do not know.
The whole thing is upsetting. It upsets me that it exists at all but tearing down free speech upsets me too.
It also reminds me that mental health funding is a soft target for those who want to tear down government influence, so now I have something else to fume about.
You know, I can't imagine doing those things either, but to some extent, say when a partner cheats and gets caught in the act and the cheated on partner goes ballistic with hurt and anger and does the unthinkable. Couldn't you at least identify with what that partner must have been thinking? and possibly put yourself in that position and wonder what you would have done? or say your child has been molested for 10 years right under your nose by your neighbour, what would you do? We all have the ability to murder when given the opportunity and thats why its so common in our society. I don't think we're desensitized to it, I think we are fascinated by it. When it comes to mothers killing their children because 'the bible' told them to, I think thats a whole different story and most people can't identify with that, because once again, there are children involved. We can't lump everything together in the same category. It doesn't work that way. That's why our court system works the way it does. It will give a murder of passion crime a lesser sentence than a coworker who goes off the deep end and shoots his boss. But murder is murder right? apparently not. but thats just my opinion.
If you or I wrote a book about how to murder others and avoid detection, I'd expect the same public outcry and personal vilification. That is not a work of fiction.
@ Brenda - though the book does condone, in as much as it says 'ok, so you're a pedophile. Let's see how we can make it easier for you' or words to that it effect - it won't encourage an individual to become one. They already are. The book doesn't change that.
Wait a minute.
You think pedophiles are born that way?
I would NOT expect the same outcry.
It is different. A book about getting away with murder would not make me as upset as this does, but it should. It bothers me that it does not.
I don't like being dragged around by my emotions.
I think if the book or similar books were allowed to remain in public access, that condoning of its contents would indeed make a pedophile more likely to act upon his or her desires.
Legitimatizing something by not banning it is akin to giving the green go-ahead light.
Freedom of speech has always had some limits to it, and we hope that those limits are based on commonsense.
In years past, the guideline was that freedom of speech did not include the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Now, we are far more subtle - anything that is perceived to be "hate speech" or politically incorrect speech is attacked and condemned; people lose their jobs because of honest opinions that do not conform to what is considered acceptable. This latter situation is a business decision, right? Well, so was Amazon's decision to pull the book. I wish it had been a matter of commonsense or ethics, but I'm glad it was done.
Great post, frogdropping!
Well, at least we now know exactly what the book was about. Part of my defense of it was that people were jumping on the bandwagon and condemning it before they knew exactly what it was.
But I still don't think banning books is the answer. Like I said, a book is not the crime itself.
what's so wrong about making an idiotic book? I happen to remember that recently George W published a book, Karl Marx had a few books, and if I'm not mistaken, the bible is still published...
...don't we still believe in freedom of speech? or is that just another liberal lie?
I was born heterosexual. Because that's the accepted norm in society, no one questions that.
I didn't get to five, ten or maybe fifteen and suddenly think 'yup - I'm going with what nature intended ... I'm a hetero!'.
Children are the most vulnerable members of society. It is in our nature to nurture (or is for the main) and child crime has always appalled society more than any other form.
When an adult is murdered we are horrified, when it's a child it's more than that. And when it's a child that murders a child, we delve even deeper into despair.
I don't know why it doesn't affect you that way. I'm not you. You're the one with the answer as to why it doesn't. Here a child crime is viewed as the lowest of the low, and we seem to never forget or become less shocked.
well he was arrested for selling the book from his CO. home to a police officer in Fl where there are obscenity laws protecting minors. where he'll face charges, unsure.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40754159/ … -security/
"What's wrong with a society that has gotten to the point that we can't arrest child pornographers and child molesters who write a book about how to rape a child?" Judd said.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/20/flo … index.html [a better video with interview from officer]
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