You ran off so fast... afraid to answer a single question...
it seems these questions are fundamental to defending all your ideas and ideology, and you can't answer one of them.
I'm sure it isn't because of your attitude! Perhaps LadyLove or Ann Cee may return and back you up on some of your rants. Birds of a feather.....!
Oh, you mean I frighten all those pompous twits into silence? Oh, please. They have no concern for civility or manners. They are, apparently, afraid to tackle any fundamental belief they hold.
How do you manage to get "pompous" twits" and "no concern for civility and manners" into the same sentence without looking like a.......... Oh wait.
I would say that getting bored with your constant barrage of nonsense and war mongering is not quite the same thing as "frighten into silence."
No wonder your religion causes so many wars.
You libs are losing badly, because for one, you have no idea who or what your opposition is. You have begun to believe your own hype, your own fiction about who WE are. I know precisely who and what my opposition is about... But you have no clue.
A forum OP is supposed to stand alone. I haven't a clue what you're talking about with this one.
What forum is this? I thought it had something to do w/ politics. No particular subject. Mark is here, turning it into a religious debate (whatever floats yer boat!). Not worth the key punches! BYE
I with you.
However, if we are discussing liberals or independents here, I'll tell you what's the matter with us.
I think many of us are sincerely disappointed in the coward-like tactics of the Democratic Party, and Obama, and his administration. They never follow through with anything. Obama should be called the "bend over" kingpin. I'm personally very dishearten by Obama, and disappointed with the leadership of the Democratic Party. Take my homestate. I waited for years for Jay Nixon to run for Governor. I just knew he'd make a great Missourian Govenor. Boy was I wrong! He is lousy. He cost the University of MO an opportunity to join the Big 10 conference, he has totally forsaken his hard look on crime, and has raised taxes on just everything he can. He has done nothing for education, he has done nothing about our over run welfare system, nothing. But travel and spend more "personal expense" money for more staff. Much like that of Michelle Obama. What do they need with all that extra staff? Are you kidding me?
I consider myself an Independent and on enviromental and human right issues a Liberal. I'm extremely disappointed in Obama's administration. I would rather have a bad Republican in office who stands for something, than a helpless wanderer who cannot make up their mind! You cannot run a country like America, and be in limbo all the time. It just doesn't work that way!
I like Bill Mahar and he is about as Liberal as it gets. Well when he starts making bad comments about Obama and the Democratic Party- you've gotta know things are bad. And, they are. I feel that's what is truly "the matter."
Another thing, it is hard to admit it when your wrong. It is very hard, especially when you had such high hope about that person. Nobody likes that to be crammed down their throats, and will be defensive everytime you try to make them admit wrong. I will not vote for Obama again. I wish he would not run. He is not American leadership material. I don't feel safe with him in the White House. These are just my opinions.
Yes, cause I sure don't feel that way, and I'm a conservative Liberal.
You don't? That's great, and I'm truly being sincere. Cause, I wish that were the case for me and my circle of friends and co-workers. When we get together, we talk about how we feel that Obama has all but abandoned his campaign promises. The economy is still no where near being good, the job market is still extremely tough, healthcare is still way out of control, pork barrel spending was at an all time high under the previous Democratic congress, and the list goes on. Obama has not done one thing well. Not one.
Where is that hope he promised us? Where is that one basic concept, which he campaigned so feverishly about? Despair, now that should have been his promise to the American people. That one he has lived up too. That has been the only real truth from his wishy-washy presidency.
Well, lovemychris, this just a good overall consensus of what my circle of comrades have been saying. I'd say that we very much feel that way, and we are a pretty diverse group of small business owners, doctors, nurses, pharmacists, sales reps who all live in middle class homes and who strive to live the American dream. We are extremely disappointed in Jay Nixon as our governor. Are you from STL or KC? Because here in Columbia, and other small communities around Columbia- he has done us no favors. No favors at all. Or are you referring to my opinon of Obama? Or of what Bill Mahr said? Or of the democratic party? I'm not sure which? But I guess it doesn't matter. Cause you obviously still have confidence in Conserv.Liberals. Yeah......., um... yeah, can't say that I do. As one of my friends put it, "I feel duped." But it's really good that you still feel confident about the Democratic Party- if that is what you were referring too. (I'm just not trying to jump to an assumption on what issue you were referring too.)
Oh, no--it's OK!
I just like Obama---I like his style,and for what he's up against, Im surprised he hasn't gone bald!
I don't see any lib who could do better, except for Grayson...that would be more my style---call them on their BS!
But, that's not Obama. He is slow to anger, doesn't get riled up. I like that.
And, the problem for me is, he doesn't toot his own horn enough.
He has done a lot of little things that never get recognized...like the clean-up of a mountain-top mining site...left there to rot and poison the people living there..the Obama adm cleaned it up-made it a disaster area and cleaned it...for those people.
Little things like that I like.
He put a bust of MLK in the white house...I like.
He went to the airport to stand with the returning dead soldiers, lifted the BAN on showing it in the media. I like.
Lot of things anger me, but I don't expect him to be perfect. And he does care about us little guys, that I believe.
And, after all those years of fighting to get people to see Buscho for what it was, and being ignored or told I was un-American....what ever anyone says about Obama doesn't phase me in the least. If they didn't have the cajuns to see through Bush, what are they gonna tell me about Obama? Nothing.
I'm not dissapointed at all.
And if you are, there's always Bachmann or Trump!
I didn't know about the bust. That's kinda cool. I wonder what other busts are in the white house.
I don't know. I just don't know. Great conversation and debate though. It's been interesting. Like I never knew that there was a Socialist Party here. But I've already been scolded once already on my historical knowledge, so I guess that's not saying much. But seriously, who knew? I didn't. Interesting. Learn something new everyday.
Well, to listen to SOME, you would think the socialists want to take over America...and you know, the GERMAN kind...you know...HITLER.
and no offense meant either, to the German people.
After what I've seen here these past 3 years....
I can understand the hysteria that Hitler wrought. If you know what I mean *wink* *wink*
It's actually very simple truths....
I believe the money collected in this country should go to those who need it, not to further grow the bank accounts of those who don't!
We have veterans living on the streets, homeless families, disabled suffering, poor schools with horrible situations, seniors that are going cold and without medicine.....and why?
Because Russshhhhh needs 59 million instead of 57?
Our infrastructure is pathetic. Same as our transportation system. We are OLD and RUN DOWN.
So Obama can get an extra $200,000???
Profits over people has been the mantra since Reagan. I want People over profits!
So what you're saying, is that you believe you have a God given right to control other people's money?
God and money do not go together....
I am focused on the God part---you seem to care only about the money
WHO is controlling WHO here truths?
Taxes are the pool of money we all pay into, to make this country a "more perfect union".
It has been hi-jacked by the wealthy, to become "more money in my account".
They have used gvt to further their riches, at the expense of the Union. And gvt policies have helped them. Gvt now needs to stop them. They have taken quite enough, thank you.
You have yet to state whether you believe you have a right to control other people's money. Why do you, or why do you not?
I don't control anything, but how I vote. And so do you!
YOU have as much control as me!
Show me the Constitutional authorization for government to control your money.
Your troll payment from Limbaugh must be coming soon.
The government objectively has a right to "control" money and commerce to an extent. That can't really be argued.
It's kind of implied here:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
If you would like it more explicitly stated see the entirety of Section 8 - The Powers of Congress
This statement in the form of a question shows the limits of your ability to understand a simple concept. LMC does not control other people's money. We live in a society with a government and our laws enable our government to collect taxes. This is a fact. That money that is collected is just as much under your control as it is under the control of LMC or any other liberal. We all have equal rights for voting under the law and we elect individuals who we believe will most closely represent our views while governing.
To continue to imply that any liberal wants to personally control other people's money through how taxes are collected and spent is a tiresome right-wing fantasy that is intentionally dishonest at worst and stupidly erroneous at best.
That's not entirely true. The tax code is used for all kinds of social engineering most of which was probably passed by liberal minded elected officials.
Why do you say this?
Is there evidence that a more liberal government passes more tax laws than the right?
Those "liberal minded elected officials" are elected by vote of the people and can be replaced by vote of the people. To say that liberals want any more control over the way our tax dollars are spent than do conservatives is simplistic and wrong.
I would simply point to the current budget debate as evidence to show you are wrong. The liberal side of the isle refuse any cuts and instead wants to raise taxes in their never ending quest for more revenue ostensibly to accomplish some social end but covertly to procure political power from the poor. Their characterizations of the last CR passed by the house as "ripping the saftey net" or killing women children and the erderly was way over the top given that the cuts advertised as 38 billion really only amounted to 350 million. On top of that the liberal side was willing to let our soldiers and their families go without pay rather than give up funding for PP and NPR.
I'd say those are pretty clear indications of their priorities for social programs which seems to me to fall outside the authority of constitution.
So those conservatives wanting to cut the relatively small amount of funding going to PP and NPR but who didn't blink at paying for an unfunded invasion of another country don't also want to control how our tax dollars are spent? You're making no sense.
"The liberal side of the isle refuse any cuts."
That's not true. Most liberals and many conservatives would be happy to see the defense budget cut and many pork barrel projects and taxpayer subsidies to special interests as well. And many of us beiieve that tax loopholes for the rich and the middle class should be closed. There is an expenditure problem AND a tax revenue problem. Both should be addressed.
You seem to over-generalize your claims about liberal's beliefs.
the original budget submitted by the democratic party had NO cuts! don't spin it! You can pull up the submitted budget very easy! If you have a problem I will be more than happy to show you.
That's a nice sentiment unfortunately that isn't the role of the American government. Even in countries where that is the stated or implied goals in practice its never really followed. You see it goes against the instinct of nature, self presavation and survival of the forest. Any attempts to alter that reality will surely fail.
Really great hubs.
(Does it get crowded under that bridge?)
Speak for yourself!
I personally feel unpatriotic knowing how many people in my country are suffering....UN-NECESSARILY!
I think it's the hight of unpatriotism to watch your fellows suffer, while you take from the trough relentlessly.
Every single TP elected official.
Michelle Bachmann....many times over! First with her Foster kids, then with her farm-subsidy.
5 kids on FedHealth....that's a lot more than Obama.
Koch Bros get all kinds of subsidies...for many many years.
Ditto for all these other industries--they got tax breaks to outsource jobs.
They take money from American people for their services, fees they charge, interest payments, late fees, ugly fees, stupid fees, just for standing there fees.
Loop-holes, tax breaks, special interest lobbies,tobacco companies had Boehner giving out checks on the floor.
Military/Industrial--yada yada yada
It's a never-ending pig trough, except when it comes to those who are low on the totem pole.
THEY get told, We Can't Afford It!
What was the question? Seriously, some of us have other things to do besides post here.
Actually, if you DID do your research, you Will find the GOP is the group thinking it has the 'God given rights' not only to control other peoples' money but to even Play God in most instances.( BTW: the GOP candidates only Pretend to be Christian, for people like you.) So while I do not hold any hope You get this, especially in view of these types of postings getting more and more prevalent, with an election year coming up, I guess this is the Fox News of postings? So it's OK for Your mother and father, sister, brother, son or daughter, even YOU to just go without any medical care or anything else any of you and yours may need one day, just to appease the GOP? Answer THAT one if you Can!!!! Or will YOU back away and run?
I doubt anyone has ever been turned away from emergency medical care. Doctors take an oath to preserve life and would not intentionally turn their back on someone in need. However Simone with a disease that might eventually lead to their death might not get treatment that could help them if they couldn't afford it. No one has a right to take from others for their own needs but they could rely on the charity of their neighbors. Still there are no guarantees in life, your meals are not guarantted nor your housing or jobs or clothing or anything else.
So can we conclude that you like the idea of privatizing Medicare and forcing Seniors on a fixed income to pay more and more while at the same time, we lower the tax rate for the wealthiest Americans.
There's something wrong with greed wrapping itself in the flag and pretending to be patriotism.
The reason why I'm a socialist is not, as you and many others would claim, that I feel any entitlement to your money but because I feel entitled to walk down the street without being constantly confronted by abject poverty.
That I do not believe anything as sacred as life should be denied to those whose lot in life has not decreed that they be blessed by Mammon.
Charity is fickle and demeaning, often valuing animal life over that of human life, and Dickens deserving and undeserving poor are still with us.
I realise that this near utopia comes at a price and therefore I'm happy to put my hand in my pocket and pay not to be constantly assailed by poverty and depravation.
I just read this after I posted....I didn't need to!
Your post speaks for me!!
I wonder if the other side will share their views on it, I somehow doubt it.
yes, it's obvious he speaks with you.
Since people who think like you have brought us to within months of total national economic collapse, which would be followed by worse than third world conditions for all but the very rich.... Please explain to me why I should think you wanted anything but to destroy EVERYONE by mindlessly stupid government intervention and destruction?
You obviously weren't paying attention during the Bush years, were you?
I'd suggest you search my hubs and posts and find my defense of Bush... I'd really like for you to find it. But, see, Bush isn't president, and not relevant anymore, so I don't talk about him. Nor Clinton... Nor Kerry, nor Gore. Nor Ted Kennedy.... I know you're desperately trying to change the subject, but it's not going to work. Diversion does not equal truth, and you haven't got it.
In fact, I write almost nothing about Obama, except my 3 sentence appraisal of him. You, on the o ther hand, focus on demonizing other people. I focus on ideas and what people DO. Pay attention.
I'm referring to this: "Since people who think like you have brought us to within months of total national economic collapse." That happened at the end of Bush's reign and had absolutely nothing to do with people like LMC.
I am not demonizing anyone based merely upon their political beliefs; you are the one doing that.
I'm married to a conservative. I LIKE them. If I'm giving you a hard time, it's not because I disagree with you, it's because you have been incredibly pompous, rude and insulting.
You reap what you sow, Mr. Integrity.
"the Iraq War of choice ($1.2+ trillion through 2012), the GOP's Medicare Part D boondoggle ($200B+ 2004 through 2008) ($725B+ 2009 through 2018), TARP ($750B) and the first round of the Bush deficit ballooning tax cuts ($2.3 Trillion over 10 years). Those alone add up to $5.2 trillion. We also know that George W. Bush racked up $6.1 trillion in annual budget deficits during his term,helping set our nation on path of damage control deficits for years"
Who did what to who???
You are destroying the Constitution.
I am doing nothing of the sort.
I am listening to a bunch of kooks tell me I have to agree to everything in their terms, or they will not do anything about any of it.
A bunch of big babies really.
Get over it already.
You are 12% of the population...you do not get to rule anymore.
Wow, what a stupid fantasy world you've deluded yourself into.
Why stupid, why fantasy? C'mon you can do better than that . . .can't you?
Rather my fantasy world than your hell.
" I feel entitled to walk down the street without being constantly confronted by abject poverty."
If that's not abjectly delusional, along with being self righteous beyond all bounds of decency, then it's just criminal in stupidity.
Well,for a start quote in context which means add because in front of your quote.
Why is it abjectly delusional? Ever been to India and seen the obscene contrast between wealth and poverty? I don't want to live like that.
Surely not objecting to poverty is beyond all bounds of decency, not your way round which seems to be to turn your back and ignore it.
And why is reducing the need for some sections of society to engage in crime an act of criminal stupidity! Surely your ideas are criminally stupid.
Pithy reply. You must've strained yourself on that one.
"Truths".....first you need to answer a very specific question....
Was Cheney entitled to the profits he earned when his Halliburton stock soared from 2 million to 12 million dollars following the illegal invasion of Iraq?
How about the executives of Dyncorp, who were throwing "boy love" parties for Afghan sheiks?
These wealthy are gaining their status on the backs of policies that are solely supported by bets on future tax revenues....
THey put the printed cash in offshore accounts.....and those of us without the plutocratic connections have to foot the bill.....my parents do...I do, my children will, and their children.....
And of course.....while Goldman Sachs was intentionally selling junk securities.....while Halliburton was selling nuclear centrifuge technology to Iran.....though two wars were started....and while the Bush Administration flooded the artificial housing boom with debt dollars....,huge tax cuts for the wealthiest are enacted?
Weath redistribution is constantly typecast as "socialist".....as some liberal agenda...
But when the first capitalists in England threw the yeoman farmers off open land...that belonged to the people.....who was doing the redistributing? It sure wasn't socialist in nature...
The wealthy keep pushing for their "right" to create poor....to disenfranchise more people......to drive down the ability for the average person to earn a living....
Those who put up arguments protecting the "right of the wealthy" to keep their assets are blinded fools, or lackeys, who have not the perspective to realize that much of that wealth was not deserved or earned....
And the rest of us have to wait for the (in many cases) illegally and immorally gained wealth to "trickle down".....
Where is the Truth?
To venture an opinion to the last question about our missing windbag....
I suspect he got banned and has returned under a new name.
No points for finding the new name (2 hours old) with no hubs singing a familiar tune.
Was Cheney entitled to the profits he earned when his Halliburton stock soared from 2 million to 12 million dollars following the illegal invasion of Iraq?
Cheney did not profit in any way from any stock price change. The small amount of delayed compensation was set long before any change in price, the price of that compensation being set long before, at the time of his retirement. Why do you spread lies?
"...and while the Bush Administration flooded the artificial housing boom with debt dollars.."
And you said:
"Where is the truth?"
Certainly nowhere in your mind. The flooding of the real estate market with debt based money was directly done by Fannie and Freddy, and the roots of that situation spread back decades. The Bush administration attempted, on 3 official occaisions, to get the House (controlled by Democrats) to restrain Fannie and Freddie, but no Democrat would touch it. Least of all, the chairman in charge, Barnie Frank. In the meantime, Fannie and Freddy compensated their CEO's millions of dollars, while piling up billions in taxpayer liabilities... and the current administration uses some of those very malfeasant officers as advisors.
The TRUTH, is never what a Democrat says.
It's not ever what comes out of the mouth of politicians, regardless of what side. But, nice try.
Where did I say "truth is defined by politicians"? Oh, wait. I did not. I said it is what it is. I have not seen a democrat say a single truthful thing since one sentence from Daniel Patrick Moynihan decades ago.
I can't say that of Republicans because I do hear it every once in a while from a Republican.
No you said it never comes from Democrats. I said it does come either side. Do try to keep up.
That's right. Since DPM left the scene.... "truth never comes from Democrats". his one true statement was approximately the following, during a committeemeting he chaired. He was chairing the committee charged with raising taxes and said: "Let's get this done and raise the taxes so that (ranking republican) can have my chair next election". Which was true, the GOP took the house in the sweep during Clinton's regime, just as DPM predicted.
That was the last true words spoken by a Democrat and probably will be, forever.
"I'd say those are pretty clear indications of their priorities for social programs which seems to me to fall outside the authority of constitution." So does 53 cents of every tax dollar to the military fall within your definition of the constitution?
The Constitution is easy to understand. And, your assertion that "53 cents of every tax dollar" is flat out false. This year, the government will spend well in excess of 3 trillion, yet the military is barely a 1/3 of that. Why do you lie? The figures are easy to find.
More importantly, the constitution authorizes none of the big items in our federal government. They should be abolished. And at that point, the military should be about 80 percent of the entire federal budget. That's how little else it is legally authorized to do.
Yes it is easy to understand and it is also easy to grasp that 200+ years have gone by since it was written.
Goes to show you like to live in the past.
Nothing about the passage of time has changed anything in it, nor has anything about the passage of time invalidated any thinking behind it, either.
So, where does the Constitution say that the gvt can force me to be pregnant against my will?
Please, do tell. And cite.
Nobody is going to tell you you have to become pregnant... Sheesh. That's amazing dishonesty.
However, once you have created a human, it is entitled to the protection of it's life. You may not kill at whim.
So do you or don't you support the death penalty?
The Constitution allows it. Due process may deprive you of your life.
Than what are guns for?
Protection? Take a life to save yours?
Funny--that's how I would define abortion.
Although...I do not agree that a baby is there for quite some time.
In fact, we all start out as ameoba(sp).
And, I'm sure you were against the Iraq invasion, since war kills babies....real, live ones.
Against Operation Cast Lead, for the same reason.
And, someone already asked it you are for the death penalty....
You are interpreting the Constitution to suit you. Or ignoring it to suit you!
Either way--it's ALL IDEOLOGY. Nothing more.
Been there, Done that.
Glad you admit you have no objective or truthful comments. I, on the other hand, have no such handicap. I was all for stopping Saddam from Killing Babies, as you so spinelessly dithered about. I'm all for toppling EVERY tyrant.
I don't "interpret the Constitution". There's no need to interpret it, it is stunningly clear and totally understandable without any obfuscation by politics.
You seem to be having an all day long moment of clarity today haven't you?
And with that comment, you have officially eliminated the judiciary. You are good. No more lawyers, no more judges - no need to "interpret" anything. It's all crystal clear.
How about North Korea why we are preventing "tyrants from killing babies..." Or does the fact they have nuclear weapons and can actually fight back make that impractical?
Why didn't Obama go there? why Libya? why not Syria, most terrorist came from there, how about Yemen? I can name many other places. I say we let them kill each other, if they attack us we wipe them off the map! that includes Korea! and If NATO wants our help we get paid for it! and make a profit!
I don't know.. Syria is actually his place of birth? lolll Why not Saudi Arabia - that was actually the nursery of terrorism for 911.
Humans are never Amoeba. Genetic tests on the first cell multiplication prove it is definitely human. Sorry, you have no point. Science proves you wrong.
And your inability to understand rights is your downfall.
But he understands rights clearly. He is always right and everybody else is always wrong.
Rights are innate freedoms of the human being. They depend on noone and nothing else for their existence, other than an intellectual recognition of their existence.
"Wow, what a stupid fantasy world you've deluded yourself into." Ever read Dickens?
I know truth is a joke to you... but not to me. At age 22 I dedicated my life to being sure I know the truth.
Interesting statement. Too bad, you've still a lot to learn. Especially, the truth about manners and civility.
Why are you complaining? YOu have none whatsoever.
Complaining? I'm not complaining, it goes to show you, that you're just blowing smoke. And, there are enough people here in this forum that would agree to you blowing smoke.
Consensus is merely a political construct. Truth is what it is. I don't care if EVERY poster disagrees with me. I am correct, period, and you are not.
Delusional. Yep, you can be right about anything when operating under such a state of mind.
Sorry, Cagsil, I CAN be correct and all of you be wrong. And, for that matter, I am. i do not bend to peer pressure, I stand on truth and truth alone. Funny how the sum of your arguments has never been anything but "you're wrong" and yet somehow my saying "I'm right" is supposed to be proof I'm not. Your sum total of argument is not argument, but efforts to 'adjust' what others think of me personally, or to slander me as a human, as unworthy of respect, or any of a score of 'tactics' which are personal, not idea driven, in nature.
You complain nothing of lovemychris, for instance, using sexual slander and innuendo to obscenely insult others, like Palin... Yet, when I say "that's stupid", you suddenly get righteous and say "you're personally attacking". And I say this being "you" as every ideological opponent here, not JUST you personally, Cagsil. You see, I USED to be a liberal, but i tested the truth of what I thought, and found it lacking. You just haven't the guts to do that yet. let me know when you grow up.
What a JOKE! Get a life dude.
You've no ground to stand on and your civility is gone the way of the hatred. So please....don't try to use your supposed superiority, to try and demean me or anyone else.
You're only blowing smoke.
You, complaining that I'm 'demeaning'? Please. Your hypocrisy is now in galactic proportions. There isn't a post by a leftist, liberal, or Democrat here that isn't anything BUT grossly demeaning.
I DO have ground to stand on, but you're unable and unwilling to debate anything. You have a nice fiction you've adopted and your reaction to it being disturbed is to attack the person of the opposition.
I started a whole pile of threads to discuss IDEAS. And not one of those ideas will be debated. You don't dare. You know you would lose any and every logical argument, because your whole ideology is one of emotion and base greed. So you race around accusing everyone else of it, screaming obscenity and profanity to cover it up.
Or, you could try to prove me wrong.
"You complain nothing of lovemychris, for instance, using sexual slander and innuendo to obscenely insult others, like Palin..."
Oooo, what'd I say, it must have been a good one!
Did I say she is an anti-American traitor,not born here, not Christian, who is out to destroy America??
Cause in my mind, Palin and sex don't mix....then again, I'm not an old Pubbie who needs viagra, which we all pay for
Tis, taint doesn't get us very far. We know what your opinions are. Why not tell us why you (weholdthesetruths) hold them?
Well in that case there is nothing further for you to say.
Funny, at age 22 I dedicated my life to seeking out the truth, I wasn't so arrogant as to believe that what I knew was always the truth.
snarky twisting of other people's words does not reveal you have any truth yet.
You're a socialist, which by definition means you know nothing and feel everything.
Nope, checked several dictionaries and none come up with that definition which probably means you're full of bullsh!t.
Danny, do you want me to remind everybody of how you spent a whole evening arguing with me because you didn't understand how the forums work?
Then shut it.
Oh so I'm still fairly new here and did not now about the option to view the forums in different ways. At least I was man enough to admit I was wrong! you can not do the same! are you getting even more frustrated because a 22 year old is schooling your socialist views and makes sense?
What 22 year-old?
There isn't anybody of any age on here schooling my thoughts and making sense.
do you not read? do you just post? weholdthesetruths is 22 years old!
Really! No wonder he's struggling so much having decided to seek out the truth at the age of 22!
And I thought he'd been seeking out the truth for decades, not weeks!
Tut tut Danny boy, you need to pay more attention to what you read.
I find truth not what people read! I have your number! at least your an open Socialist I have some respect for that. I may not agree but respect you being straight about it!
that is all you do is twist words chubby checker! Your a socialist and want to convert as many US citizens into thinking your views which have never worked before! Capitalism is what made America, the majority does not want to change! Drugs and Alcohol abuse takes place in socialist countries more than anywhere! what do these people have to strive for? they stay the same with no room for growth! This 22 year has more sense than many 3x his age. I for one is very proud of you! with thinking like that you will be successful! and not a grubber!
I don't want to convert anybody to anything, I just want to straighten out a few untruths, that's all.
As for the rest of your post, well, it's over my head!
what untruths? that socialism never worked? that it eventually collapses? that most people with in the socialist country are drug addicts and alcoholics? that they live the same life with no room for growth? what truth? I'm all for helping people who actually need it but not enabling LAZY people who rather play video games then study and work hard!
What untruths! Well for a start all those that you list in your post.
instead of one liners show me where I'm wrong! I will be waiting! those are facts and I know you do not want to hear them but sorry it is truth.
Sorry, hardly a grain of truth amongst them, it's hardly worth arguing against stereotypes.
LIKE I SAID PROVE ME WRONG! you can not and try to twist it into something else to divert the truth! it is OK I expected that.
Look, you are making the wild and fanciful claims, you prove them right.
Prove that all socialists are drunkards and drug takers and by extrapolation, all Americans aren't.
Prove that not a single republican sits at home playing computer games when they could be working.
Prove that they have no room for growth.
Don't make wild allegations then claim that they must be valid because I can't be bothered to prove you wrong.
Hey, Danny eats babies, he'll deny it, but he's wrong, I know!
twist some more! I did not say ALL! put your BS spin again. It is fact that Drugs and Alcoholism is a huge problem in socialist countries! of course you would not prove anything! you never do, just spew your nonsense socialist views that do not work and never have! of course you will not prove me wrong again because you can not but try and switch it and say you prove it! another great answer! maybe one day.
http://www.druglibrary.org/special/frie … ialist.htm
Well, your first link leads to a study of alcoholism in countries in transition from socialism to capitalism, ie capitalism drives people to drink
And your second link leads to a discussion on drugs in the US!
Never mind, just continue to spew your antisocial views.
You know you can not continue to avoid answering questions by accusing others of twisting. It won't wash.
I see you make no effort to dispute my claim that you eat babies, therefore proving that you do!
yes baby Ruth candy bars! how is that? Am I learning the way you socialist twist things?
you obviously did not read it! good try again, the second one they were telling you about the US but then get into what we stated! good try. to LAZY to read the whole thing? wow you need to be move motivated.
As I said to another poster, if you want to give me evidence, I want it in your own words, don't give me screeds of somebody else's words to read.
If you can't précis something, don't expect me to do it for you.
sorry more motivated. oh you got me!!!!! feel good now? sorry typo. I know you like everything handed to you on a silver platter, sometimes you have to work and figure out some things.
Oh I agree, if it's something that I need to prove I'll spend hours researching however if it's something that somebody else needs to prove then it's up to them to do the research.
I mean, if you went to your doctor and he told you to go away and look it up you wouldn't be very impressed would you and when you come out with ludicrous claims and then tell me to look it up if I want proof then I'm not very impressed.
Remember, it's impossible to prove a negative, but that's what you're asking me to do, you make ludicrous claims and then demand that I prove them wrong, you're having a laugh aren't you.
You still haven't proved that you don't eat babies have you.
WEll, I just watched a vid of Ron Paul...he said the problem is not Capitalism, it's Corporatism.
We are heavy-laden with corporate thugs, and their friends in gvt. That's why things are the way they are.
How's that? And I'm way past 22.
The US Constitution is a license to empire. And there can be no more than two seated parties, by 'winner take all'.
" I feel entitled to walk down the street without being constantly confronted by abject poverty." So you give money to any homeless you encounter. I bet not.
I'm sure the author of those words does not, as well. The author is VERY generous, however, with OTHER PEOPLE"S MONEY.
Once heard Cheney say he never made a dime from the federal government.
"The flooding of the real estate market with debt based money was directly done by Fannie and Freddy, and the roots of that situation spread back decades." You haven't got a clue. Ever hear of Goldman Sachs. I suspect not.
Hmmm.... I guess ignorance is impenetrable. Sorry. If you're not open to being enlightened, don't come here and pretend your vast ignorance is wisdom. I know precisely the genesis and evolution of the real estate bubble. Don't pretend your political rhetoric is truth.
I think you need a refresher course about America's Economy. It's now based on a debt system, because America is BROKE!
Do you REALLY think you have something that can enlighten a dark room? Wake up, man.
I think you do not understand what he has been saying, He knows this and why he believes the socialist party here in the states is ruing everything. We know we are broke and the dems do not want to cut anything, then after some force they cut 38B which turned out to be far less, then this great Liar present makes it sound like it was his idea and doing!
A lot of dems are closet socialist! sorry if you do not see it or just trying to go along with them! John Holden is a socialist and many here believe just as him so that would make them socialist also.
You say you are a Democrat, but seem to really hate everything they stand for!
You banter the word "socialist" around as it were analgous to calling someone's mother a whore. You got most places in the world, as you say you have, and someone saying there are a "socialist" is about as earth shattering as saying you had steak and eggs for breakfast.
But then again, that's all parf of the subtle brainswashing we have all been exposed to since time immemorial. You literally have to go back to the late 1950's, early 1960's in the US to find examples where 'socialist" and "communist" were so common in the everday venacular. I thank you Tea Party - the voice of reason in a paranoid word.
That's baloney. You must have a definition of socialism that includes everybody to the left of Attilla the Hun. Besides, there's nothing wrong with democratic socialism. I thought you said you are a Democrat. Does that mean you're a socialist?
you say that is baloney but then state there is nothing wrong with democratic socialist??? LMAO that was funny! and Yes I'm a democrat. a fiscally responsible democrat! not a socialist democrat! I believe in helping people that really need it! not enabling LAZY people. I do not believe in people who work very hard and give up family time and play time to be sucessful and then take a large share of their money and give it to someone who did not put the effort in and wanted to party! sorry I do not believe in that. If someone had a heart attack or disease etc... and it hurt the family or the elderly than we should help in every way possible! I see people on food-stamps driving brand new expensive cars, having babies daddy live with them but say they are not married to get all the freebies from the government! sorry I do not believe in that!
Why do you automatically assume they are socialists?
We have scroungers of every political persuasion in this country, why not in the US?
we are talking about the united states! get with the program! and the democratic party was infiltrated by many socialist! just like the republican party is starting to get infiltrated by the TP. understand what your posting about before responding.
That I can agree on though I would say the number of "true socialists" in the United States, in the Democratic Party is fairly small.
I truly do not know how many either, but many will not admit to it! at least we do now who is in the TP. We have a real serious situation and I do not know how so many people do not want to believe it? It is mind boggling to me. denial doesn't work.
But regardless of the numbers, why would being a "socialist" be any more negative than being a Presbyterian? lolll.. I mean it IS a free country. Socialism isn't necessary analgous to political treason - at least not yet. Then again, if the TP every finds itself in any modicum of power, that may change....
I believe it is very Negative. If Socialist make the rules then it will be major problems, like what we are going through now if economics. Don't get me wrong I would not want the TP people running everything and making the rules either. But if I had to pick, it would be the TP because they are fiscally responsible. They would not do much for entitlements but personally I like to help people, but people who actually need it. If we could have a balance, everything would be good. I believe if we did things differently, we could have health-care and other programs and it would not effect anybody. We have way too much waste and Fraud, We spend too much on stupid wars...especially Iraq! that was a big waste and what started this mess. Bush was a bad President, I wanted Hillary to actually be President because Bill was a good President, I do not count the Monica BS to me that was personal and the republicans played that up too much. so I thought she had real experience since she lived in the WH for 8 years and could get us back on track. This Obama guy is a BIG liar to me, I was going to vote for him until Reverend Wright thing came up, when he said he did not hear Wright speak like that, and he was in that church for 20 years and dedicated a book to him and said he was a mentor, that was it! That guy is soo anti-American and if he is his mentor I do not want someone like that as the President of the USA. I did not like McCain that much either but at least he was Pro-America.
Quite small in the U.S. and throughout the world, except for Cuba and a couple of other countries. And Cuba is changing.
Why don't you try providing a few facts and coherent arguments rather than your personal assertions which nobody finds convincing.
What's the point. YOu're not open to change your mind.
You have no clue! it was Fannie and Freddie and Democrats forcing banks to give mortgages to people who could not afford them and NO MONEY DOWN to boot, so the investment firms just put them into CMO's and the like. You need a lesson in banking my friend, you seriously have no clue!
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h … uot;Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans." ..........I think "Forced" is the wrong word and I'm sure the banks enjoyed every fee that they got from these transactions .Wall street also enjoyed all of the profits from the financial instruments they created.
That is what I'm saying! these socialist want to divert from the real truth and LIE. I'm in the financial field and know very clearly what transpired.
“Socialism,” remarked Frank Zeidler, former socialist mayor of Milwaukee, “believes that people working together for a common good can produce a greater benefit, both for society and for the individual, than can a society in which everyone is shrewdly seeking their own self-interest.”
Yeah, and he was a flaming idiot, too.
That would be flaming idiot too. Exists only in the mind of the demented artist...but still an idiot... just like the artist.
NICE RACIST PIC!!! is that what you truly believe?
only a dishonest fool would insist that principled opposition to an ideology is based on racial prejudice. You know, a totally dishonest slander of his fellow Americans.
Well only the most naive would believe that race doesn't play some factor. Perhaps a small factor, but some factor to be sure.
Why? No one on the Far Right seemed to give a damn about deficits or deficits spending until a black Democrat made it into the Oval Office. Obama being in office represents a personal affront to many in the country. They see it, just as they often state, as "my country being taken over...." "I want my country back, etc."
Back from WHAT? Back from taxes? not likely - only a fool would claim taxes aren't the lowest they have been in decades. From Socialism? not hardly - what you people term as "socialism" started in the 1930's. From perversion of the Constitution? not likely - unless you want to disregard how many times the document has been legally amended.
So again the question is the following: What or who stuck a bug up the Tea Party's A&&?
Cagsil said: "Too bad you don't your place and when you are stepping on other people's rights, which YOU ARE NOT supposed to do."
Explain for me ANY statement I have made which amounts to stepping on anyone's rights.
How can people even think of lowering themselves by trying to have intelligent debate with a blubbering, inexperienced, opinionated, immature person like WHTT? Give him another 50 years and maybe, (and that's a big maybe), he might realize how gullible and childish he sounds. I think that this may just be impossible, due to his tunnel thought and vision. It's a waste of time. My 2 cents worth, and I don't care whether he wanted it! His pompous attitude and unwillingness to even consider other's opinions, brings about comments like this. I think his constant barrage of inuendos and accusations against those that do not believe as he does, exposes his uncaring, selfish and self serving nature. Obviously brainwashed! What a waste!
I agree with everything you said. Except the last three words. Some clowns serve an important function by making muddled issues clear.
I could not do in six months of posts as much damage to the reputation of the Tea Party as he has in 48 hours.
Radical training 101:
Turn the finger pointing at you to the person asking the question.
Deflects and makes you the accuser.
ie you saying DT is a racist because he points out the TP racism
truths saying it's ok for USA to kill babies because Saddam does too
What? Me worry? I never do anything wrong.
Saw it quite often in a trial recently.
No cigar here, though...all of us have been around the block a few times. Run into your kind quite a bit.
Nothing new under the Sun.
If memory serves there has been only one socialist candidate for president of the US--Norman Thomas. And he didn't get many votes. And Bernie Sanders is the only socialist member of Congress. Supporting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and a graduated income tax doesn't make one a socialist.
"It's all crystal clear."
Do what I say or else.
Waaaaa, tea-party wants a binky.
What's the matter with libs?
They are delusional.
They are boring.
They are violent.
They are boring.
They support perversion.
They are boring.
They support the death of innocence.
They are boring.
They support crime.
They are boring.
They support criminals.
They are boring.
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