Forget rhetoric - how is the economy REALLY doing?

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   Texasbetaposted 12 years ago

   Every day I hear someone talking about how bad the economy is...most of the time, from someone who hasn't a clue as to even basic economics. SO...let's find some viable charts and take a look for ourselves.
   
   http://dallasfed.org/data/data/us-charts.pdf
   
   Take a gander and let me know your thoughts.

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      Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      All of these Republicans talking daily about the economy...the economy...but when the charts are in their faces, they vanish like roaches when the lights turn on.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         did you notice how the value of that stuff in your wallet went down as everything else went up?
         
         And how everything else was measured in dollars?
         
         ... yeah...

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            Texasbetaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I suck because I got promoted to Operations Manager and eventually about $30k added to my salary, so I am not the guy to ask. I drive about 8 miles a day to work (both ways), and have quite a bit more money now. I'll totally admit that most of this hasn't affected me other than my company's revenue projections.

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   recommend1posted 12 years ago

   I get my news from various sources and what is clear is that the US has run out of credit options and is on the brink of forced cut-backs.  For whatever partisan reasons people might put up, the overall picture is little different to an individual who has borrowed as far as the outside will allow, re-mortgaged their house and maxed out all their credit cards.
   
   The only possible responses are to adjust to living within your means or steal something.
   
   Clearly, not enough could be stolen for the US from the Iraq colonisation/contract profiteering/adventure, maybe because it was all stolen by individuals and stashed outside of America ?

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      Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Go get an apartment and don't pay the credit cards. What are they going to do? Growl at you? They don't pay their bills. Why do you have to pay them? Bankrupt the banks! I know this is unreasonable, but I don't like the banks and want them to crumble in reality. I'll admit that.

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         recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You misread my post a little - I was comparing the economy to a person reaching the end of their credit, it was not about the person.
         
         As a country you have run out all your credit lines AND stolen what you can AND now you are in danger of defaulting on national debt.  If you do that is the end of the dollar, end of world trade dominance and the gradual decline of America to levels with less influence than Europe.
         
         I base this on 3 recent events and the nod of various commentary such as suggestions of switching to the World Bank, Chinese withdrawing 2 trillion dollars lent to the US that has now to be made up by further pressure on the already suffering Europe and Japan, Chinese agreeing to finance the European market by starting to buy their debt and investing in Europe heavily.
         
         On top of this the ASEAN free trade zone is rapidly expanding and easily outpacing any other in the world and also creating a new grouping of China with India and Pakistan and out toward the middle east, Europe and Russia getting much closer to the point  of discussing visa free travel between them and more free trading arrangements - The US is in danger of becoming irrelevant unless it solves its internal problems, starts living within its means, withdraws from all the countries it is trashing and threatening, and generally learns to live within its means while they are still considerable means - and yes putting the money the banks stole back into the economy would be more than useful.

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            Texasbetaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Right on...I still hate the banks.

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   dutchman1951posted 12 years ago

   News folks are now hinting that 7-11%  un-employment as perminant is now a fact?
   
   read this today, read it in Charlotte Observer on-line. thought
   about how that is possible as we have shreded our Factory system and production ability over the years now.
   
   I'd say we are looking at the future right now, an accurate state for the U.S.. Perminant Unemployment, and an expansion of a poorer class of worker. Back to those days of Robber-Barons I think.

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   qwarkposted 12 years ago

   Texas:
   
   We are so deep in debt that there is no possibility of paying it off...none at all.
   
   If you owed more than you could possibly, ever, pay off, what would you do?
   
   Bankruptcy?
   
   If the US declared bankruptcy, what would be the effect it would have on all nations we owe.
   
   If nations decided to create a new currency and the American dollar became valueless, what would the effect be on world economy and the economic strength of all other nations?
   
   We are rapidly losing ground as the most powerful nation on the planet...why?
   
   Is there an international, clandestine cabal dedicated to creating a "New World Order?" One which China would be the economic leader and the USA the police force?
   
   Believe me, none of us know! We're all guessing.
   
   Politicians are corrupt and are lining there pockets with  under the table money provided by powerful corporations.
   
   It's the old Rothschilds rule: "He who controls money controls!"
   
   None of us knows how the economy is doing! None of us!
   
   Qwark

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      dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Clinton, Secretary Clinton, made a statement about her meeting and a possible banking switch for the U.S.A. to the world Bank?
      
      sounded odd to me and a bit scary also.

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      Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Oh good lord...you are one of those. The NWO huh? It is easy to know how the economy is doing...read the economic indicators. It is that simple. Learn about the market...as opposed to believing in a secret cabal. That is ridiculous. And, yes, we can pay this debt off...it is only 10.7% of GDP. During WWII, it was in the low 20s. We can pay it...but I believe we are allowing them to cut from things that mean nothing to the debt, like NPR. Cut corporate welfare, cut subsidies to oil companies, cut subsidies to companies for sending jobs overseas (we actually pay them to do that), make corporations actually pay their taxes, make the rich actually pay their taxes, investigate people for hiding their money overseas, and corporations for that matter. The money we are looking for is there, and it isn't a secret at to where it went. It didn't go to the welfare lady...she got a pea, they got the rest of the meal.

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         C.J. Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         "During WWII, it was in the low 20s."
         
         Tex, that's true, however during WWII people owed the US, it's the other way around now. The people who do owe us now have proven that they either lack the means or will to pay. There are some differences there to be noted....

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            Texasbetaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Plus, we had a manufacturing base, which we don't now...so, I get your point. I think we are screwed, but probably not in the same way you do. You are focusing on the debt...I am focusing on the fact that we haven't fixed a thing in the financial system. These investment banks still have a vacuum attached to the economy and are funneling it out as quickly as they can. That isn't invented money...eventually, it comes from somewhere. Right now, it is coming from the state pensions. This thing is going down, and it isn't coming out of it in 2 years like it did this time.

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               uncorrectedvisionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               http://motorcitytimes.com/mct/2011/05/i … can-thing/
               
               http://economistsview.typepad.com/econo … shi_1.html
               
               No mention of the negative effects of ATMs and airport kiosks in in either article.

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      Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Oh good lord...you are one of those. The NWO huh? It is easy to know how the economy is doing...read the economic indicators. It is that simple. Learn about the market...as opposed to believing in a secret cabal. That is ridiculous. And, yes, we can pay this debt off...it is only 10.7% of GDP. During WWII, it was in the low 20s. We can pay it...but I believe we are allowing them to cut from things that mean nothing to the debt, like NPR. Cut corporate welfare, cut subsidies to oil companies, cut subsidies to companies for sending jobs overseas (we actually pay them to do that), make corporations actually pay their taxes, make the rich actually pay their taxes, investigate people for hiding their money overseas, and corporations for that matter. The money we are looking for is there, and it isn't a secret at to where it went. It didn't go to the welfare lady...she got a pea, they got the rest of the meal.

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         qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Texas:
         
         I keep up with as much about the world condition as you do.
         
         I have no problem with those of you who think things will be hunky dory again...none at all/  :
         
         As a nation, we've survived a couple hundred yrs of problems and have prospered.
         
         The past couple hundred yrs are gone and if we survive the next 100, in which change will happen at light speed, it will truly be a "miracle."
         
         Our world is shrinking, population is growing, peoples are being fragmented in ref to religion , mores and "needs" to survive...and it will only get worse.
         
         It is rather naive to think that there are not those powerful, brilliant entities existing who are in the process of planning ahead. For they can extrapolate from historical and present data what humanity may become if it continues on the path it is following and prepare!
         
         We, the proletariat working class, are necessary to the proper function of the assembly line and are offered whatever is necessary to "keep-the-peace."
         
         When I worked for gov't I had a picture on my wall of a mushroom growing in a dimly lit basement. The mushroom was looking me in the eye and it said: "all they do is keep me in the dark and feed me bullsh!t!"
         
         You it seems, from what you just replied, are that mushroom.  :
         
         We know only what we are fed by those in control.
         
         Qwark

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            Texasbetaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I get ya, and agree to some extent...but I don't think they are as organized as you do. To me, the NWO can pretty much be summed up by calling them investment banks.

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               qwarkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Time'll tell Texas  :
               
               Qwark

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      logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Qwark,
      
      Unfortunately most do not want to know.  They prefer to delude themselves and wait for the government to bail them out of whatever financial difficulty they are in.
      Obama promised, swore up and down, that he was the one that could fix the mess.  How much better off are we than when he took office?  Unemployment is still too high, public debt is higher than it has ever been.  Food prices are about to skyrocket.  Gas prices while receding, will bounce back up shortly.  He has fixed nothing.  Obamacare is a joke.  All his campaign contributors get exemptions from it.  He has sent millions to his buddy in Chicago who was elected mayor essentially by organized crime's funding.  He does not know or have any convictions about what to do about the conflicts in the Middle East.  He is rudderless and cannot captain the ship.  He will probably be relieved when he loses the election, so he can cash in on the speech circuit and look for payback from all those he funneled money to while president.
      
      For the economy to rebound, we have to find a leader, dump most of the rich bastards in Congress who have no idea what it costs to survive. 
      We can't save everyone.  When you are trying to rescue a drowning victim, sometimes you have to let them go or they will take you under as well.

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         qwarkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         logic:
         
         Who put these people: the President, the congress, the senate, the Suprme Court justices, in positions of power?
         
         WE-THE-PEOPLE!
         
         The President can make all the promises he wants as he campaigns.
         
         When he is elected into office, he can only be as effective as  the Congress, the Senate and the Supreme court allow him to be!
         
         All of those who hold positions in those facets of gov't are ELECTED-BY-THE-PEOPLE!
         
         I've said this so many times before: Place the blame where it belongs! Place it on a scary voting public!
         
         If we are sold a bill-of-goods by candidates and by all those who run for other gov't offices, then, allow them to stay for 30 yrs gathering riches from powerful corporations and their lobbyists,...who is to  blame?  WE-THE-PEOPLE!
         
         We are easily fooled and easily led by candidates who spew the kinds of propaganda necessary to get your vote.
         
         Then when they fvck up, we react like children!...screaming, crying and placing blame where it doesn't belong: on the titular head of nation who in reality, under our Constitution, has little or no power if the other 3 facets of gov't are cutting each others throats and won't work in concert for the good of the nation!
         
         WE Americans are dumbing down to the extent that we have become ignorant, apathetic and numb!
         
         You said: "Obama promised, swore up and down, that he was the one that could fix the mess." If we the people don't know that 1 man cannot "fix the mess," if he is not backed by the other 3 constitutional facets of American Gov't, we deserve what we get!
         
         How dumb can we get!
         
         We'll see won't we?
         
         Qwark

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            logic,commonsenseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You are correct.  No one person can fix the mess.  However Obama and McCain wanted all to believe that they were the one to do it.  The American people are sold a bill of goods every election and until they realize this they will continue to be billed for their lack of insight and resolve to chose politicians that have the best interest of most of the people at heart instead of just those who contributed large amounts of money to their campaigns.

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               cindi hposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Ok, show me a de4cent, honest politician and I will vote for him. I think the real problem with elections is that we usually have a choice between bad and worse. It comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils. I hate to vote (but I usually always do) because no matter how much effort I put in to becoming informed about the candidates and their agendas, we have access only to the information the media puts out there. We are only privy to the information they want us to have. Their true character is closed in the proverbial closet. Just look at the many scandalous stories that have come out  regarding these evil , morally deficient, greedy 'basturds', years, or even decades into their respective offices. It's enough to make you want to bury your head in the sand.
               
               Qwark-- I whole heartedly agree with your assertion about  WE THE (STUPID) PEOPLE   I'm always amazed at my ignorant town when election time comes around. This town continually complains about our state of affairs and yet, when it comes time to vote, they send the same ignoramus' back into office!!  UNBELIEVABLE
               
               Texasbeta-- The state of the economy is different for everybody. Those, such as yourself, who are doing well, don't feel the squeeze. So to you the economy may seem fine. But for those of us who are unemployed or under employed, we have to deal with choices that no human should have to make. Should I get this agonizingly painful tooth looked at or should I buy the school uniform my daughter needs that the powers that be deem so vital to her education? Should I pay more for the healthier food or should I pay the electric bill?
               I bankrupt my family when I needed emergency medical care and didn't have insurance. Had I not received the care, I would have died. I seriously think that would have been a better choice than to live like we are living now.

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   earnestshubposted 12 years ago

   The graphs show the economic factors are a lot better than I thought.
   
   Very impressive in light of the crash.

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      recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The economic indicators reflect one piece of a crash that started around 30 or more years ago that resulted in the US being a net exporter for the last time 25 years ago.  The 'crash' is not even a crash, it is just a long failure of mismanaged economic policies with their resulting wars and aggressive colonisations that will only stop when the economic model is changed in favour of balance and diversification.

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         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I realise it has been very deep in debt for a long time. but when the loans paper hit the fan it sure tore out a bigger hole.
         
         Do you think America will find it's way back? I do hope so!

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            recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            To be honest I do not. 
            
            I wish them no illwill in general - but if it forces them to put their vast army of soldiers back in the box, reduces the rows of Generals in government, forces the dollar to its real value in the world, and reduces the fundy-funding the sooner the whole world might settle down to reconstructing and developing the devastated areas of the world as the basis of a world economy.

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   brimancandyposted 12 years ago

   I don't know how it is doing in other states, but in Michigan it sucks. We are losing factories and jobs here left and right. The  percentage of the unemployed is bull, as only the people that are collecting unemployment are counted, and not all that are out of work, moved on to welfare, or have become homeless.
   
   Another place you notice it is in tourism. At a time when our resorts and campgrounds would be full on summer weekends, places I know of have shown drops as much as 50 percent of their business from last year, with people only reserving for the holidays and not much else. The price of gas is killing tourism here, and the constant rain hasn't helped either.
   
   The worst part of all is that we now have a governor who wants to take money away from the poorest people, and the middle class and give it away to the rich. Not only that, but also take over a city of his choosing, and replace all of the elected officials that run that city with his own people. That is just plain wrong. In one city, (Benton Harbor) he already is setting in to approve a deal with another billionaire to build condos on park land that has been set aside for the people by it's previous elected government, which he has removed.
   
   Talk about economics all you want. When you have people like this running things that don't mean a damn thing.

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   TMMasonposted 12 years ago

   It is crashing once again. That is why FDR did, and now Obama is doing, the war thing. War always helps the economy.

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      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      War doesn't help the economy.
      
      This BS is just a symptom of people relying on broad aggregates to tell them how the mystical entity called "THE ECONOMY" is doing.
      
      It's nonsense.
      
      "THE ECONOMY" is NOTHING more than you, I and countless individuals living our daily lives.
      
      When 40,000+ of us are forcefully thrown in a foreign country with guns to murder other people, LIFE IS WORSE.
      
      When steel prices go up because the resource is being used to build bombs,planes and guns instead of cars and everyday appliances, LIFE IS WORSE.
      
      When the best and brightest in our society are paid top dollar by the government (which simply prints the money out of thin air, making all other dollars in "THE ECONOMY" worth less) to spend their time thinking up better ways to kill other humans instead of thinking of how to make more efficient cars and systems of communication, LIFE IS WORSE.
      
      War is NOT good for "THE ECONOMY". We've been in perpetual war for a century simply because the executive branch of our government has found a way to gain more and more and more power without people second guessing him.
      
      "ENEMIES EXIST!! I NEED MORE POWER", yells the tyrant.
      
      "You shall get none!", demands the freedom lovers.
      
      "YOU HATE AMERICA!!", is the response from the tyrant.
      
      War is bad for humanity. It helps nothing.
      
      Only fools who know nothing of economics can convince themselves that "murdering other humans in the name of a false red, white and blue god" could POSSIBLY be good for humanity.
      
      I was once such a fool, thankfully Ron Paul pulled me out of the confused and contradictory slime surrounding me in 2006-7.

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         TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I never said it was good for anyone. I said Obama is doing the same as so many others and getting into wars to boost the economy. Regardless of it works or not, that is what they have done for centuries. It not only causes the illusion of helpoing the ecomnomy but fuels patriotism. As you said, percieved enemies unite us for some stupid illogical human reason. I am merly pointing out what is going on... not saying it works or doesn't

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