We don't pay for it. Some people go without in spite of the lofty claims that "everyone" will be helped.
I think, least in Canada, health is paid through our taxes. got to question the gov't though when they want more taxes too.
Your liberal friends are sick of the same argument day after day after day after day on thread after thread after thread after thread... It has been discussed to death...
The CBO says that over 10 years the reform will pay for itself and then some.
We will pay for it with our tax dollars. And I don't have a problem with that.
People will be able to live healthier and more productive lives. They will focus on building careers, businesses, and families. They will spend less time worried about having or losing their insurance.
I'll bet there is a threshold above which you start to have a problem with it.
Shut your mouth!!! These people dont want to hear something as reasonable as that. Shame on you!
You do...the same as others will pay for you if you suddenly lose your job, or become sick and can't work, and can't afford to pay taxes. Do you know that you lose more taxes to the rich who use loopholes than for those who can't afford to pay taxes?
There is some truth to that, however the rich pay an accountant instead of the IRS. The accountant then pay's both corporate and personal Taxes. In the end the IRS gets whats theirs.
Like in Canada, they have to pay it themselves, the same way they pay sales taxes, rent, etc.
It's the same answer for all of these questions (of which I know you're aware).
The multi Billionaires, who earned every cent of it, will be robbed by the unwashed masses (meaning people who earn less than 250,000.00 per year)who are just too lazy to earn their own money to pay for luxuries like medical care.
The Billionaires of course will not stand for this so they will all move to Montana, secede from the union, and live in the new capitalist utopia of Glenbeckistan. There will be no need for a government because people can always be counted on to do what's best for society even if it diminishes their own financial net worth. The magic of the "trickle down effect" will help those less fortunate souls of Glenbeckistan who can't seem to earn that first Billion on their own.
The unwashed masses will of course not buy medical care with their stolen booty, but will instead blow it on cigarettes and booze, causing the collapse of the former United States and the well deserved deaths of its communist/nazi/atheist inhabitants.
The chosen ones can then re-populate the land and wait for Jesus to return and congratulate them for a job well done.
Anything else on your mind?
In the US now hospitals give them care and then "absorb" the costs (i.e. increase the costs paid by paying clients and/or insurance companies). So we already are covering the health care of illegal aliens and anyone else who doesn't have decent health care, but in the most inefficient, expensive way possible.
OOOPS, my bad. You were being serious when you asked this?
It's irrelevant, because I just said the current system covers healthcare for people who don't have insurance and can't pay for it. You are already paying for it if you are working and contributing to your own healthcare. That will not change until the law that says that sick people will not be turned away from hospitals if they don't have a way to pay, and I'm sure as a devout Christian you should be the last person to try to change that.
I don't understand what that means. Would you want hospitals to turn away people who were dying on the street?
Ron, I have condoms for free in my office. Just come and get 'em, I'll put a bag for you aside? Magnums right?
You have just described "socialized" healthcare; yes, the bugaboo that Sean Hannity has warned would lead to the apocalypse.
There is no other way than to pay via your taxes. So it means getting your tax system working more fairly.
How about if the companies who are currently buying the 'Dead Peasants Insurance Policies" and receiving tax breaks for same, were to actually pay the tax they are not paying. That would help markedly. It may even solve the whole problem outright, not markedly.
I'm sure there are allot of tax schemes that are on the stinky side that could be addressed to help even out the fair from the smelly.
Aside from believing it's the right thing to do, I see it in my best interest that EVERYONE have access to health care. I don't want to be exposed to drug resistant infectious TB or a multitude of other things.
We pay for healthcare either way, because people just end up in the emergency room or declare bankruptcy to get around paying bills. So lets just use tax dollars - from income taxes to sales taxes to pay for it - and do it as efficiently as possible.
The shiftless, lazy and basically ignorant people drive me crazy too. But that's no excuse to punish good people.
I hope that I've been upfront enough about who pays for it. I really believe ultimately that the taxpayer will. I admit that I've got it pretty good in Massachusetts, and I'm worried that the new plan will screw us over, but I'm willing to take that risk.
So if they want to hit you up for a 40% tax increase you won't mind?
Guess I better keep writing stuff hubs - alot of stuff hubs. No more time for the forums.
Not really fair to lump all 'illegals' into the same boat. Most of them are more hard working than the average.
I bet there going to take even more money out of my paycheck as if enough isn't already being taken. I am lucky to bring home half of what I make after taxes, retirement, and union dues
Oh yeah, your gonna love what they do, the bleeding hearts will stop bleeding when they see what this will cost.
In Massachusetts if you make under $30,000, your healthcare is free. And we've already discussed your taxes before, some of that is because you live and work in different states. And because you have other fees - that aren't taxes deducted. I couldn't find the topic thread though.
What? Condoms? Really? I work in health promotions at a university, thats kinda part of my job. So why is it I shouldn't talk about sex or condoms?
I though the topic was my need for Magnums.
I find the topic of GOVERNMENT RUN or CONTROL Healthcare, to be a page from the stupid people running around rampant online, screaming foul play.
I've learned about the supposed topic, but find that the view is coming from those who think that there is nothing wrong with the "healthcare" system, as it is.
How ever, we have bigger problems and more immediate pressing concerns, than to exclusively tell citizens that we are not willing to help them.
It is disgusting and uncomprehensible that we can not protect our citizens from detrimental workings of business.
The fact: Business HAS Control of Congress.
That alone: should out-right scare you and you should be looking for real answers.
The "healthcare" reform is necessary step to driving down healthcare costs and insurance premiums. The problem presently causing your rates to increase is due to many millions of people who do not have coverage. Those people are walking into hospitals, clinics or wherever, getting treatment and not paying for the services.
Why are they not paying for the services they receive? Because, they are mostly made of "homeless" people who don't have a job, a place to live or any food to eat. Which is contributing to the reasons for their trips to the hospitals.
Usually, when you want to see a doctor, there isn't a problem, because they are FORCED by Medical Ethics to treat you, regardless of whether or not you can pay.
So, universal coverage plan is not the real answer, but affordable insurance plans would help thriving businesses to pass on savings to their workers and allow a 'homeless' person to enter a rehabilitation center and work through their ordeal and get them back into society, where they belong in the first place.
NOT addressing the 'homeless' problem is going to continue to drag down America's overall health and wealth.
Let's make sure we understand, what's what, so we can defeat the cause of the problem, instead of putting a bandage on the problem and waiting for the next shoe to drop.
What was I talking about that was private? Like penis size? Let me reiterate, I work at a university with over 30,000 students. Not everyone is going to be abstinent. So we teach safer sex as well. If they're going to have sex (which some are) they may as well be safe. Abstinence based sex education doesn't work. But this is a whole different suject Sneako. So lets just settle on: you and I are two totally different people.
This liberal friend will tell you to stop lying. A government option to force competition and bring down the health care cost for everybody is not GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE. Stop the false argument. This liberal friend will tell you a an insurance company denied health care to a BABY! Was he sick? Did he have a hole in his heart? Deformed? nooooooo. He was to fat! Something everybody prays for. A big fat healthy baby. The public option would force insurance companies to a act in a reasonable manner. Have a honest discussion.
Yeah,yeah,yeah but today the baby got health care, free market result!
That baby, that time, was givin coverage because the insurance company was embarrassed by the publicity. What about all the people the insurance companies let die needlessly. The government is not the bad guy here, this time. Why are you worried about the taxes you would pay, when it cost about 6000.00 a year to cover a family? And there's still a chance the insurance company would let you die?
My dad pays 12,000 for our family (5 of us). And I still have trouble getting them to cover things sometimes.
The Government is always the bad guy, what health care system that the government currently operates is not bankrupt?
That would defeat the Democrats ultimate goal, they want dependence. Requiring people to work and earn money may make the dependent want to be self sufficient, then what would they do?
Maybe bring back workhouses? Slavery would solve a lot of those problems.
Of course, you have to see if there is a job for all those people. Some are lazy, but the vast majority are not. Will you provide free day care for the single mothers? Also, many of the jobs that are available do not provide a living wage.
How do you get them to work, hold them at gunpoint? Seems problematic in a free country. One of the things you have to accept in a free country is that not everyone has the same work ethic as you do. And that some will take advantage of either welfare benefits or tax loopholes. And why should children be punished for the behaviour of their parents?
Believe me, if you closed some of the tax loopholes your country(and ours) would not be in any financial difficulty. Even with a percentage of the population having to be on welfare.
Oh man, I have seen so many take advantage of the welfare system and its sick but they get away with it. Many people in the US don't have to be on welfare, they choose to be!!
As I said, I am sure the vast majority of people on welfare do not take advantage of it and are truly in need. There will always be users...like those millionaires who pay less taxes than a middle class person.
If welfare is like Disneyland, why aren't you on it?
I'm sure Charlie Rangel is working on that even as we speak
Tiered healthcare options could help. The Insurance companies take care of non elective health care options for a start, and if you want premium premium health care, you pay extra. Meaning you get a higher health care option via your insurance company. They'd love that. So you make sure you're not paying for somebody's face lift or liposuction.
Emergency treatments and non-elective procedures get covered by your taxes. This system needs to be separate from the insurance companies coffers - so the greedy mongrels don't get all the pie.
In over 40 years of government involvement in the war against poverty, how many people still live in poverty?
Government has never done anything better than our free market system, ever!
It is just frustrating. People don't see doctors because they can't afford it. Even if it is an emergency. They check their bank account before they make an appointment. And those are the people with insurance. I know I do. My copay is $40 for a specialist of which I had to see three times the past two weeks. I work on campus and as a waitress... not like I'm bringin' in the big bucks
There will always be people that abuse a system. But the majority don't. Everyone should have healthcare. How do we pay for it? Increase everyone's taxes? I doubt it would be more than $12,000/yr my dad spends insuring us. As far as illegal aliens, people visiting..whatever, they're here so we can't just let them suffer, so do we pick up the slack? Yeah. It is very rare that someone will never need medical treatment (even serious) at one point or another, you pay so no one has to suffer.
You are very generous with my money, along with the fact that you make very little money you are also exempt from paying taxes and actually getting a refund of something you never payed.
I start PA school next year. Excuse me for going to school and working two jobs while I do it.
Didn't the American taxpayer pay your salary while you were in the military? I don't see anything wrong with that. Why shouldn't students get a break while they are trying to improve themselves and get better jobs so that they can avoid welfare and so they can pay higher taxes?
Are you serious? My salary? If you want to go that route I assure you they owe me quite a bit more money! I don't want her to have to pay higher taxes, do you not get that? But until she pays any income tax she needs not spend my money!
And I pay taxes on the little income that I do have and on the profits from my investments. And I just checked and my refund would have been $165 but I just use that towards next year's taxes.
The richest country in the world arguing so long and so vociferously about whether or not they should look after the sick, regardless of their financial status is very, very weird. Why you would not want to look after each other is beyond me, but good luck, and I hope you can afford your illnesses.
"You are very generous with my money, along with the fact that you make very little money you are also exempt from paying taxes and actually getting a refund of something you never payed"
"Government has never done anything better than our free market system, ever!"
Tex, please tell me you didn't mean to say that to the Lady. You pay your taxes that you are obligated to pay as a citizen of this country. You gonna pay your taxes regardless of how our government spends it. And are you OK with the Insurance Companies practices? You dont think a public option would help this lady's father out? I dont always like what you say but I did respect what you had to say. Please be reasonable about this.
Well I'll have a career in a little over two years. So for now I just pay taxes on my paychecks from my two jobs. Still don't know why it is someone wouldn't want to use their tax money to help out a student who will be helping them out when they retire. But all is well.
My son is at uni in Australia. He works two jobs and still gets his student's allowance from the government. I know dozens of these young ones like my son and they need the help. Australians are happy to pay for their education, but when help is needed it is there. We have free health services that are world class as well. I think it is a matter of long term thinking, something Australia seems pretty good at.
Can I come live with you?
I have scholarships that pay for my tuition and I work two jobs to pay for my car and apartment. I have no debt. I'll be starting grad school in the summer and be starting my career after the two year program. I am very very lucky to be in this situation. I am also lucky that my dad pays for my health insurance. With that exception I am financially independent from my parents. I should be completely. What I don't understand is the thinking that because I am a student I don't contribute to society and shouldn't have a say in how tax money is spent. I may be 22, but thats just more of a reason for me to have a say.
Nobody said you don't have a say, but your idea that everyone will pay for this is just wrong. There will be those that truly get health care for free, or rather they don't pay for it. My role is to take care of my family not anybody else's, but because of these schemes government comes up with to take my money its getting harder and harder to do what I'm supposed to. The really bad thing is there are still people who think government should provide for their every want or need, they also think that government is capable of doing it well despite all the evidence to the contrary!
Does that mean that people who can't afford to pay taxes do not deserve police protection or can't call the fireman when their house catches on fire? Letting a house burn and possibly spread would threaten to hurt a lot of people most of whom pay taxes. Just like Nellie said, it's in your best interest that your poorer citizens get health care.
A lot of people do not want their tax money paying for a couple of wars, but have no choice. I don't have children but I have always paid school taxes. You are not the only tax payer, many people have different ideas on what should be done with their taxes.
I'm sorry, but what is so wrong with people getting free health care if they need it?
"Does that mean that people who can't afford to pay taxes do not deserve police protection or can't call the fireman when their house catches on fire?"
No, those systems are funded locally not federally. If a person buy's a stick of gum or a loaf of bread they pay taxes. Taxes that are used to fund local infastructure. Lets compare apples to apples please.
"A lot of people do not want their tax money paying for a couple of wars, but have no choice."
I thought the people did have a choice, they made it last November. Didn't the President say he would end these wars post haste? How's that working out? I say this simply to re-inforce the idea that our government is broken. We can't trust them to do anything until they clean their own house.
"I'm sorry, but what is so wrong with people getting free health care if they need it?"
Because we already have a system for that. Its in danger of going broke! Its called Medicare. Why would you want to expand a broken system? Fix it first, prove it works. I don't care what they do in Canada, France, UK or anywhere else. My tax dollars don't go there.
You were just making it seem like I don't pay taxes, and I shouldn't say how tax money is spent. Do I believe that healthcare should be provided? Yes. I think that declining health has a tremendously negative effect on families, businesses, communities, and the country. If someone is able to seek medical care and especially preventive care they are less likely to have a debilitating illness that causes them to go on government assistance programs to begin with. Government doesn't and shouldn't provide every need to everyone, then there would be no reason for hard work and determination. I admire your desire to take care of your family. I think that is everyone's priority. But other's lives effect our own and I think when it comes to healthcare we should take care of everyone.
I say I say, wouldn't it be a good idea to tax junk food as a way of paying for free health care? And cigarettes and alcohol? That would be a good alternative. Then it gets down to abuser pays. What do you think?
In ten years the average family will go from now paying $12,000 to approximately $25,000. At what time are we going to answer this problem. The same business as usual answer is not working.
This will be paid for on the backs of the American tax payers. We still have to see what will come out of congress, but it's not looking good for the middle class and small business.
It always is and always will be paid by the American Taxpayer. This is part of having a government for the people. The question should not be how are we going to get out of paying for it but how are we going to pay for it wisely. It's all academic.
Yes, but the government is telling me they must rebuild the system from scratch in order to keep costs from rising. Under the current plan I will pay much more than I'm paying now! 80% of the people are happy with their current healthcare and now the government will give, no excuse me, FORCE us into something that gives us less and costs us more all while still leaving 20 million uninsured! Where is the common sense???
I absolutley get what you are saying and agree that with the track record congress has the hopes of a sane solution seems resolute at best.
Something has to be done or the costs will totally be out of reach within a short period of time. Given the lack of a competent plan in effect for the last 30 plus years it is no wonder we are in expensive solutions to this problem. If you think that this is bad wait until the employers revolt and go out of business or downsize and see where un employment will no longer allow us our medical insurance. Will we all be on cobra then? And for how long?
I think we have got to get the other side in congress to say more than no to ideas even if they are not very savory.
No, the question is how badly the democrats are going to get slapped down in 2010 and if this will knock some sense into them and remind them who they work for.
So the answer is wait until 2010 and this problem will all be worked out? My reference to the other side did not mean to imply that the democrats have the answer. It was merely a suggestion to get down to figuring it out with an open mind and some solutions. The demeanor of your reply says it all in that you think the partisinship that is going on is the right way of handling the debate.
Partisanship isn't going away anytime soon wether I like it or not, as evidenced by the way this thing is being pushed through by the democrats without even the pretense of 'bipartisanship.' This is why the democrats are overreaching and why enough of them will be slapped down in 2010 to give them a warning. Wether they heed that warning or not is up to them.
"I'm sorry, but what is so wrong with people getting free health care if they need it?"
Where is this utopia where health care is free?
Planet Earth, except for the U.S. and some other stragglers.
Note: Many of these nations also provide free police and fire services.
Free? Nobody has to pay? Must be great places to live, when are you moving there?
If the police show up at your house after a break-in, do you pay? Do they ask for proof of personal protection insurance?
That is a real violation of your rights to keep your money. When are you moving?
I'm not gonna do the liberal whine thing and move, I will continue to pay my taxes and bitch about it!
How many liberals whine and move? And how many conservatives move? (We already know they whine)
Don't know but some on these pages have said if they didn't get health care they would move to Canada, Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin have threatened to move, but like most liberals they don't have the intestinal fortitude to carry out their threats!
In other words, you've cherry-picked a handful of people and drawn a conclusion about half the country. Life must be really easy when you're able to cast everything in black and white.
I'm sorry that I gave you examples of liberals that whined, in the future I will just throw my hands up and say you win.
Hey texan, you don't seem like the kind of person who would throw their hands up and say, "You Win!".
So, let's not go there. Let's keep it real.
As for the general nature of healthcare reform? It is a necessary first step to ensuring citizens are protected against the greedy nature, known as profiteering, of business.
The unrealized major problem for WHY healthcare reform must be done is because your individual rates continue to climb due to fact: millions, upon millions who do not have insurance coverage, not because they do not want it, but because they cannot afford it nor is there affordable policies that won't break the bank.
The main cause for your yearly increases come from those who are homeless, but get treatment from clinics or hospitals and they are unable to pay for services received.
These people have trouble with clothes, food and shelter, which plagues them daily. If they get sick, but still value their life, they seek medical aid, whenever needed, regardless of whether or not they can pay for it.
Now, if we fix the 'homeless' problem, by helping these people return to normal living, then we can handle all the healthcare costs that ever come up.
Until that problem is addressed, we cannot control healthcare, ever.
How many conservatives did you hear promising to move if Obama won? I know many liberals so emoted both times Bush was elected.
And you assumed UW didn't understand that? Of course it all gets paid for as it does now, just in a way that makes more sense and has worked well for decades elsewhere.
Thank you. I'm sure no one else realized that.
No, it is NOT "free" in any of the nations you are thinking about. That was his point.
Uninvited writer asked a question, you quoted and responded, did you not notice?
I am sorry but I did not and do not see where you are talking about.
I was referring to the people you say who do not pay taxes. Is it not free for them?
But aren't you basically saying that people who are unable to pay taxes will get free health care? I thought that was your whole argument, that if you don't pay taxes you don't deserve any services. This is turning into an argument of semantics.
That was never my argument, I said that colebabie was being very generous with my money, its very easy to say "we will all pay for it" when you are in fact not paying anything. I never told her she should be shut out of the process because she didn't pay taxes, that came about because that is what you or she wanted to believe.
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