Is Poverty a Disease?

1. 67

   Charles Jamesposted 13 years ago

   There are many millions of people who are born in poverty, live in poverty, die in poverty, and leave their children in poverty. Getting out of poverty by individual effort is theoretically possible, and there are people who have broken out of poverty.
   
   A bit of bad luck can derail anyone's plans. The poor get more bad luck than the rest of us because they do not have resources to cushion any difficulties. Finding mone=y for a pair of shoes for your growing child can derail the household budget for months.
   
   And do not be sick in America - it can crucify you with expense and pain.

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2. 61

   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   I believe that the countries with the most poverty are capitalist and the countries with the least are more socialist.

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      HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I just believe that we all can help those in poverty no matter what country it is we live in. We can help out in some way, as I have stated in some of my hubs. It is a growing problem in America at the moment, and hopefully there a generous people out their that will give someone the chance to work, or help them in some other way!

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   2. 67

      psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think socialist countries are outliers at both the high (NZ, much of Scandinavia) and low (Cuba, Ethiopia) end.
      
      Ultimately you have good or bad government.  I am not sure exactly how they go about it is as important as many people think.

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3. 61

   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   They love to bash the failure of the Cuban economy. Course they don't tell you there is a total US economic boycott since the fifties and none too much help for any socialist country.

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4. 60

   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   If you want to look at Society as an organism, as Nietzsche did, then yes.
   
   And America has proven the greatness of Capitalism... where all other systems have shown they are unsustainable and failures. And I know you all are going to hate that assessment.
   
   The trouble we, America, are having is because of Govt. intrusion and over-regulation... a semi-Socialism that is choking this nation into the grave

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   1. 67

      psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with that assessment, so long as you would agree that Norway proves the same for the greatness Socialism. Huge taxes, but immensely productive with a massive GDP per person and very high standard of living.

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         TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         To a certain degree Psyche. I have an issue with using those nations as examples becausee of the limited population. When you involve Socialism or Communism you inevitably have to consider population control in order to not out grow the produced and managed resources.
         
         Control doesn't stop at just the resources, production, distribution, etc...

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the really good laugh

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         lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Me too! If anything, when we put the reigns on Crapitalism are we great!!

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      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I would say the opposite is true, since corporate owned governments are giving you moves made to help corporations over people.
      
      Both political parties in America are accountable for this, but i think the most obvious and attrocious move was the ownership of Bush Jr. by Meryll Lynch, which brought about the bank deregulations which hiked interest rates on many mortgages, loans and credit cards which would have been illegal a few years previously.
      
      I think corporations should be seperated from Government entirely so that fair rulings and laws can be made.
      
      I don't think America has proven the greatness of capitalism simply because it is being crippled by it.  Capitalism is a good thing, but allowing it to run the country creates a dangerous system.
      
      When it comes to socialism, most developed countries have a bit of socialism in the mix, it works well in terms of fire protection, police, healthcare, education and road systems around Europe.
      
      America seems weirdly fired up when it comes to socialism, I cna take some guesses as to why, but as a European in America it seems a little weird. Case in point, I went to visit my grandfather in law. 
      
      He is living on some form of government medical aid, he worked in the army, he receives an army pension, he worked as the sherrif, receives a pension from that too, and receives the american version of a state pension. One of his grand daughters (Not my wife for the record) Is a bit of a junky and a teenage single mother - living off government benefits, they could not support her otherwise, he also has two other young'uns in the family who are currently serving time for armed robbery.
      
      All in all, the majority of his life is funded by socialist policies, and yet he is staunchly anti-socialist, kind of makes me laugh.

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         TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         What America has had over the last 70 years is not Capitalism oli... so we cannot really use it as an exaple of true capitalism anymore. And fannie mae and freddy mac, along with Dodd and frank did alot to destroy the housing market and set people up for the fall. I agree that both parties are at fault... but do not get to stuck on blaming one or the other... both are responsible.

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5. 67

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   Quite.  The state of economies rarely springs form ideology per se.  You can run a good low poverty national economy on either model. Or you can have it crash and burn, for whatever other reason(s).

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6. 67

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   We don't really have matched cases to compare.  It just seems to me that some nations are well-governed and others aren't.  Different systems work or don't work in different contexts.
   
   I would consider the US a mixed model that is not without socialist elements, and pretty successful. Equal Norway is very socialist but still has some strong free market elements too.
   
   My take home message would be not to let idiots run the country.  Even as a "lefty" I would rather have a smart Capitalist or Libertarian in charge than a dumb Socialist. And I would vote for anyone who will promise a balanced budget.

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      TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes we, America, have gone semi-Socialist in the last 90 years.
      
      I agree.

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      1. 67

         psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Entirely for the bad?  Medicare all bad? Tax-funded police force? Fire service?
         
         I mean I am a socialist but I am pro-free trade.  Most rational people don't run a straight party line.

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            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Best of luck psycheskinner, the only sort of socialist recognised here is the crypto communist, and not just communist, but Stalinist.

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            thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Agreed, people and politics should not run on favorite parties, but rather thoughtful policies.

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         3. 60

            TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I have never said any of that was all bad. I had a long discussion with Emile the other day and told her the same thing I have always said.
            
            I have no problem helping the poor, elderly, disabled, and the just plain needy for the moment.
            
            I have an issue with life long welfare and generational welfare, which I have seen first hand growing up in Lynn MA..
            
            I have an issue with 99 weeks of unemployment. But not regular unemployment.
            
            I have an issue with bail-outs for Banks, Industry and nationalizing any private industry period, including healthcare. It had its problems, but nationalizing it was not the answer. It was the over-regulation, along with the inflated payments made by the Govt through Medi-care and Medi-caid that set the rates and caused the inflation of healthcare costs to begin with. Regulation such as only one insurance Co. per State, that is no way for the free market to operate and adjust for Say's Law.
            
            I have no problem with Soc. Sec. for the elderly and to have as a sefety net. I have a problem with the Govt having a different Soc. Sec. and healthcare system for themselves.
            
            I do not think peoples who ideologies, ie; Communists, Socialist and others that do not think they should fol;low out Constoitution being in our Govt. and trying to tear up the Constitution and create a new system.
            
            As far as Military involvment around the world;
            
            I have a problem with our intervening in any Nations wars that are not a direct threat to our National Security. I am a non-inteventionalist... NOT and isolationist.
            
            We got Osama... we should be pulling out totally from all the conflicts which are based on getting him, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq.
            
            I have issues with us being in wars and ignoring the Constitution based on a law that doesn't supercede the constitution. ie; the war powers act, is unconstitutional and Congress cannot over-rule or transfer enumorated powers of the Constitution by a law... it take a Constitutional amendment.
            
            Imigration...
            
            I do not like illegal inmmigration and the rewarding of it with amnesty as we have done at least twice, if not three times. I believe if people want to come here then come legally as many do.
            
            I believe we should giove all illegals a 6 month period to leave this nation, checking in at the border on their way back to be placed on a list which will be added to the back, the end, of the line which exists already. If after that 6 months you are found here illegally, you are arrested and charged and deported and you never have the right to apply and return again.
            
            As far as those children who were born here... citizenship is not granted to them through the 14th amendment... that is a mis-translation and needs to be corrected. it read one parent has to be subject to the jursdiction of the US Govt, and if both parents are not legal, then niether is the child.
            
            I think I got most of the main issues... lemme know if you have a question I didn't get.

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7. 61

   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   Won't find any population controls in capitalism and eventually they will populate themselves into poverty, unless wars maintain a depopulating mean.

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      TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Actually invention and inovation play a great part in the sustaining of a country and it agriculture and other resources. So that is ot necessarily true. And in a free market inovation and invention flourish under free market capitalism. ie; new growing techniques, new energy uses and resources, etc...

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      1. 67

         psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         So long as the Capitalism is education-driven it should naturally lead to low birth rates.  Again, ideology does not cause high birth rates, typically poverty does.  The reason being that those in poverty need to have more children to ensure some survive to adulthood and must have children to work and support them in old age. Those in affluence have great health care, few die young, and people can save for their own retirement and be secure even if childless.

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      2. 84

         lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Unless they are halted by free-market GREED. Forces already in control who don't want to share.
         
         As In Koch and the Wind Farm here on Cape Cod.
         He has a house on the Sound, you know. Perish the thought.
         NIMBY = No Free market! Money rules.

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            TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Kennedy blocked that for a decade... so...

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8. 61

   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   Corporations are fascist concerned only with profits and themselves. Corporations will either be banned or they will destroy the planet. See Fukishima.

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      lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes--it's Republicorp that must go.
      As they say in Japan: Sayonara.

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9. 67

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   So do we just call the good bits of trade "Capitalism".  Because yes, specialization and exchange raise standards of living.
   
   But it also gave a wages insufficient for decent living and poverty for those who can't work through no fault of their own (hence the socialist dole, collective bargaining and minimum wage.)
   
   Capitalism IMHO means the whole shebang, good and bad. As does Socialism which basically means not letting the powerless be abused or neglected, but at its extremes can suppress business and cause welfare dependency.
   
   Both good ideas and both bad ideas.  Hence the need for good leaders to pick out and use the good bits.

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10. 71

    Cagsilposted 13 years ago

    Is poverty a disease? Not by any stretch of the imagination

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11. 78

    Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years ago

    Poverty is NOT a disease.  Poverty is a form of VIOLENCE.

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       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Care to explain that?
       
       Poverty comes and stems from ignorance. Not violence.

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          Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          It's a paraphrase of a Gandhi quote.  It's so easy for the very wealthy to become more so - it's even effortless.  The opposite end of this spectrum is also true, and self explanatory.

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             Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Oh, okay.
             The question is do you know why it is effortless? It's called "residual" income generation. Which is the base of wealth creation.
             The opposite end is poverty and it comes/stems from ignorance in knowing how to prevent poverty from happening to oneself.

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                Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                . . . .and thus the silent violence of poverty.

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                   Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   

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12. 61

    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    Nothing wrong with small capitalism. It shouldn't be confused with the corporation.

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13. 80

    mega1posted 13 years ago

    sure is an affliction and it sure is contagious!

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14. 67

    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    Plenty of people are born into circumstances where escape from poverty is rare regardless of what temperament or virtues you might have. That is why we try to maintain free and universal healthcare and education for children. Because there is nothing fair about inheriting poverty, poor education and poor employability.
    
    My mother was one of many children of a father who was an illiterate manual laborer, who is probably alive today only due to the unionization of the mines.  He urged his children to become educated and the then left wing government gave them vocational training for free.  That is directly the cause of my mother being a teacher and me being an ex-university lecturer and current executive.
    
    That is also why I am personally grateful and extremely committed to the socialism of free and universal healthcare and education for children and youths--and also extensive second chance education.

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15. 67

    Charles Jamesposted 13 years ago

    It is so interesting. When "capitalism" is seen to have clay feet, people rush to say that what we have is not capitalism.
    
    They may call it corporatism or republicanism or some other ism so that capitalism can stay pure - even if the USA has not had capitalism for 90 years apparently. Yet the same people say capitalism is better than socialism. Capitalism as practiced in the USA is what most of us think of as capitalism
    
    It is intellectually dishonest to dodge this question. And the right pride themselves on their clear thinking!

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