Let's face it, if you believe that our large corporations in this nation give a damn about the death of our soldiers, or innocent persons over seas somewhere - you are one delusional person, and I absolutely feel sorry for you.
If you fell for the "war on terror" then you fell for that crap the clowns on the television sold to you, and they are laughing at you right this very second.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … m-fY4qvQ#!
The war on terror has certainly provided the worst elements in the US with ample opportunities to behave very badly. And it has made a lot of people very very rich. Cheney and Haliburton are a case study in war profiteering.
There were a few good points from that guy.
But the things that stood out the most were that he seems to be blaming Bush for everything (even the few Obama actions that are similar to Bush's) and that he blames America in general for protecting itself from terrorism.
Same ol' game of passing the buck.
The guy probably cheerleaded Obama's "apology tour".
Or maybe shouted Amen at Jeremiah Wright's damnation of America.
Why would you idealize that guy's opinions?
Glad that other folks agree with me, most of my family believes that television bullshit like it's...reliable or has a reputation other than that of filth and lies.
The war on terror is contrived. However, it elevates people who are small groups of militarily weak combatants into major threats to society and icons. The reason, oil and pipeline to the Caspian Sea. Those are the two motives for Iraq and Afghanistan.
Do you consider the global government angle at all? You know - break the US economy in every possible way so that we can all be united more easily.
I would rather see a confident and sane US than a broken US. There are plenty of other countries with the same imperial ambitions as the US that have far fewer restraints.
The US needs to get back to using its power wisely.
I don't see the neocons as being anti sovereign unless they are in charge of the world government. America is still the most powerful nation and there may by NWO financial types who would like to see the USA reined in.
It would be a shame if we have to choose between predatory financial people and crazy neocons.
The wars can only be fought because we finance them through fake paper money.
Interestingly enough, this is the same reason why we have booms and busts.
What? War profiteers? And the sky is blue. There have always been and will always be war profiteers. We buy products today from companies in Germany and Japan that made stuff to kill our soldiers in one or two world wars, and made tons of money doing it - Bayer, Mercedez Benz, Mitsubishi, Toyota. The hero of the movie Schindler's List was nothing but a war profiteer.
Members of our government are also corrupt profiteers. Insider trading? No problem, it's legal for congressmen. The whole purpose in getting elected or appointed to office anymore is to enrich yourself.
Oil. The idea used to be let's burn up theirs and save ours for later, but they jacked the price up and created the largest transfer of wealth in history, from the West to the oil-producing countries. It is many years past the time when we should have started weening ourselves off foreign oil. Will it ever happen? When we don't have a dime left to buy Saudi oil, maybe.
Is the war on terror contrived? I know there are millions of people and numerous governments that want to destroy the US, mostly Islamic. They attacked us on 9/11 and have attacked us elsewhere and have attempted to many times, and they are not going to quit. Islamic extremists have committed over 17,000 acts of terrorism since 9/11. Do you suggest we just sit on our thumbs and let them do it? Is that how you would protect your home and family? If we don't protect ourselves they will be on our doorstep. Have we gone about it the best way? Probably not, but to say the whole thing is a farce is - farcical.
I'm saying that I do not believe that anyone from Islamic nations attacked us at all on 911.
The OP said contrived - not farcical. I am interested where you get your figure for 17,000 acts of terrorism by Islamic extremists ？？？？？？？？？？？
Also what is the figure for acts of terrorism carried out by the US after 9/11 and before ????????
While I do think there are wars worth fighting, it makes me sad that war has become something of a business in this day and age. There has clearly been no reason whatsoever to engage in as many conflicts as we have over the past few decades. People are making money and shoring up resources at the cost of innocent peoples' lives (both here and abroad).
I have no use for you haters of America. If this country is so awful, get your butt out of it. Try Sudan, or Haiti or northern Mexico.
That's the dumbest shit I ever see anyone said.
1. you have no authority to tell anyone to move, or do anything - but you are presuming that you do.
2. If everyone that thought like I do left, then only folks that think like you do would be here....and you folks would destroy the place even faster, which you can't seem to realize.
3. You basically just said, "I don't know what you are talking about so go away."
I have a question for you Olo? Did you know that the Taliban went to Texas in 1998 and it was buried in the US media? Google, "taliban went to Texas in 1997" and click on the BBC link.
Once the Taliban said they would not allow the pipeline to Halliburton investments, Cheney had motive for 911 and for the Afghan war.
PNAC put on their website in 2000 a need for a new Pearl Harbor in order to speed up entry into the middle east. That monster Cheney had both knowledge and motive for facilitating 911.
The Taliban also offered to hand Bin Laden over to a 'neutral third party' after the bombing of the USS Cole - before the attack on 9/11 - but they did stipulate that they wanted to see evidence of Bin Laden's guilt first.
This offer was repeated several times: including in the days after 9/11.
The offer wasn't taken up because that would have robbed the neocons of their excuse to attack Afghanistan.
Interesting. The second biggest war criminals in history behind Hitler were the neocons.
It goes a bit deeper than that. Prescott Bush: GW's grandfather, was twice subpoenaed - during WW2 - for helping German industrialists move their money out of the Reich. There were also attempts to prosecute him for aiding and abetting an enemy.
Furthermore, the Union Bank of New York: of which Prescott Bush was a board member, also bankrolled Hitler's - and the National Socialist Party's - rise to power in 1930s Germany.
Wesman Todd Shaw is bang on the money here. I find it apalling that a lot of Americans (not all thankfully) cannot see that they are being duped into fighting the war on terror: which is designed to rob THEM of their civil liberties; and the coming war against Iran - which is designed to rob THEM OF THEIR VERY LIVES.
It 's time to wake up, wise up and - above all - stand up for our rights. If we don't they are going to start a war that will kill millions and enslave the survivors.
The writing is on the wall - for f!!ck's sake go read it.
I'm well thanks Peter. Also thankful that there appears to be more people that believe we can change things for the better, than there are who believe we are powerless to change anything at all.
Couldn't agree more Hollie - although I'm afraid that some of the sacrifices that are being made: with people getting killed, in places like Yemen, Egypt and Bahrain, will have to made here and in America before sanity wins through.
I hope you are being sarcastic... If not, you show how clueless those who speak/think like you are...
If you actually meant what you said, I saw your likeness among the rabble in "Idiocracy"...
So you love your country but you hate the Bill of Rights? First Amendment?
Brenda....how could you minimize the role the Bush Administration played?
Over 1 trillion dollars spent on a war based on ccomplete lies...
Read "Licensed to Kill: Hired Guns in the War on Terror" by Robert Pelton.
The same "blank check" mentality was followed up by...not fundraising in times of war...as has been done the last time we had a Pearl Harbor...Lusitania...."attack by the Mexican Army"....or "Remember the Maine" event?
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/ … _euro.html
But there is a lot more that goes on than meets the eye...
Mainly because I consider the social issues much more important than money! And I don't mind how much money the U.S. spends on defense if we need defense. Nor on offense if we're hunting terrorists. I didn't say money isn't important. And the old saying of "Follow the money trail" is applicable a lot! But in this case, I think that Bush had to begin the war on terrorism and he chose the best option he could. Iraq had a blatant unrepentant dictatorship that had defied U.N. sanctions, if I'm not mistaken. That breeds terrorism. And it breeds hatred for America. And it provides a haven for those terrorists. I think people should stop blaming Bush and blame the 911 terrorists and any regime that parallels the terrorist ideals. How else can America be protected? The terrorists thought they could get away with their underhanded tactics. They found out they couldn't. And if Obama really thought Bush should be prosecuted, he would've done it; he obviously despised Bush. But he knew he couldn't have done any better either. Or else he himself sympathized with the terrorists. Who knows? Like you said, there's more than meets the eye.
Good job Brenda showing everyone how "wool over the eyes" you are...
He said he would close gitmo and didn't, would end the war in Iraq and well, is it over yet? Are the troops home yet? Despising Bush was a campaign trick, to get on side with those who really do despise bush. Bush was evil and Obama is not doing much better. What would happen if he tried to prosecute bush? How long before he was next for the chop? A day or two tops is my guess. That is a door he will leave shut and locked. Obama talked a good talk during his campaign but his walk has a very bush like gait to it
3000 Americans died on 9/11. In response 250,000 Iraqis died in an illegal war and the chaos of a broken state over the next 10 years. Remember Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism.
Let's say a trillion dollars (I don't have exact figures, probably no one does) has been spent on the war with Iraq and Afganistan, and all the schemes to erode American civil rights; such as Homeland Security. So for each death on 9/11 of the order of $333,333 has been spent. How much money per head does America spend on cancer research? I don't know maybe of all those who suffer, perhaps a couple thousand. Has America got its priorities right?
That sounds like the terrorists got exactly what they wanted, to destroy American civil rights
It must have been nice having the red carpet laid out for them by our politicians
There is no evidence that anyone from an Arabic nation had anything to do with the Americans that died on 911.
Newscasters...who are nothing but corporate spokes persons droning endlessly about Al Queda in no way substantiates anything like truth.
So, if you are be fed a line of BS on a daily basis, why are you still supporting it by paying taxes to the Corporate War machine and remaining in the USA?
By you staying in the USA, you are giving your approval for what the government and corporations are doing.
Unless it does not bother you that much, or you do not really believe the words you write.
My take on your statement.
Have a great weekend.
Nope. I'm spreading awareness. I was born here, have no intentions of leaving, and plan to do all I can to make this a morally superior nation to what it now is.
If everyone like me left, there'd be nothing but fools and morons left. That would be, literally, assaulting my nation of birth by the removal of my self.
Just wanted to point out the ridiculousness of this statement.
Maybe this will help.
Did black people approve of being lynched by staying in America?
If they felt there was a better place for them, and had a chance to leave, and decided to stay - they supported those that would have them be lynched. (At the time, the world was a pretty ugly place for blacks - not many choices available to them. Todays world is a different ball game)
It's pretty simple - you pay taxes that support the war machine.
You shop at places that do not pay people enough to live on.
You elect officials that continue to lie to you.
You bank at banks that rob you.
Not a ridiculous statement at all - you have choices.
You want to stay and fight the system, be my guest.
I chose to leave and stop supporting what I do not believe in.
If you want to stay, give them money while complaining, knock yourself out. Go join OWS and sing Kumbaya to your hearts content
Have a happy weekend.
It appears you have no idea that we can change the laws we don't like here.
I do not believe Americans are willing to stand up for principles. It would mean sacrifices, and "stuff" is much more important than principles.
If Americans can gather the breadcrumbs left over for them by the government and the elite of the country - they are happy. As long as the big screen TV is blaring,and there's a car in the garage, the government and banks can pillage all they want.
Things have to get a lot worse for Americans to come to the realization that they are being screwed.
Like I said, you want to spend years trying to reign in the banks and government, singing kumbaya on the street corners, knock yourself out.
Ain't going for change for the better in my lifetime.
Have a great weekend
Instead of changing the laws why don't you try enforcing the laws that you already have? Especially the laws put in place to stop Wall St ripping-off the rest of America.
You have to understand that they are not really after any kind of "fairness". The object is to utterly destroy the system and nation. Then they want to reshape it in their image. They don't see the folly in what they are doing.
As I have said"Meet the new boss...same as the old boss."
You're wrong. What the OWS folks want is real democracy. They've seen through the sham democracy that exists in America: and throughout the western world, and want to replace it with a system which truly represents their interests and yours.
Majority rules can enslave the minority.
We the UNITED STATES are a Representative Republic NOT a Democracy!!
So you'd rather have it that the minority: the 1%, get to enslave the majority?
Also, you need to change your pen name because it seems that the 'reality' to which you subscribe is the 'reality' manufactured for you by that 1 %: and their version of 'reality' doesn't bite - it sucks.
Yes! We are 'free' in America? Let's see now, you Can get mugged in large cities, I Do have to lock my doors at night, one Can get carjacked, held up, shot in a mall, school, workplace...............YES! Freedom! Freedom from What?
Great forum topic.
Since all you are doing here is making an unsupported statement then I will do the same. You are obviously one of those people that are incapable of envisioning a world that is organized in a way that is a fair bit different to the world that you presently inhabit. I am not here saying that you do not wish the world to be a 'better place' - just that you lack the imagination to see how the world could be a 'better place'. It could also - of course - be that you are completely sold on the popaganda that the mainstream media churns out: stating that, 'There isn't any other way.'
Keep on thinking that, 'There isn't any other way,' as you watch your fellow Americans dying wholesale in a war to secure Iranian oilfields for the benefit of the 1%.
Although I agree that the whole war on terror is a farce, I am a bit surprised how many hubbers here are naive about military defenses. I know if most hubbers here had their way, we would cut the budget for military expenses by more than half of whatever we spend on it now. The only problem is what most people fail to realize that until world peace becomes a reality, then a strong military will always be needed for defense. That's just reality. It baffles me how many people don't see that.
it baffles me how many hubbers fail to understand that the military is not used for "defence" it is used to attack other nations in order to pillage resources.
And you still fail to see that without a military, then our country would be defenseless against our enemies. Take in mind, we're not exactly the most popular country in the world here, and that many nations and terrorist groups would love nothing more than to blow the living hell out of us until the cows come home, and all us americans are dead. However, that's not to say that I agree with everything that the military does. As I stated with the "War on terror", I agree it was a farce and political ploy by our government. The war in Iraq was nothing more than a ploy to get Iraq's oil. I agree with that assessment as well. however, you can believe what you want. Personally, I believe in what Christian Slater said in "True Romance":
"I'd rather have a gun and never need it, then to need it, and not have one"
If America stopped attacking other countries - and stopped sending in the CIA to destabilize democratically elected governments - then perhaps it wouldn't have so many enemies and you could cut back on military spending.
It isn't going to happen of course. The military industrial complex pursues a policy of perpetual war to keep the tax dollars flowing into its coffers and your politicians are only to happy to oblige.
Well everyone has a right to their own opinion, and you certainly have yours. Look, I never once said during this conversation that America was filled with saints, nor have I made any claims that any action carried out by the military is fair and just. I never said that at all. Lets be clear about that right now. However, all I did say is that the necessity for a military will ALWAYS be needed until world peace becomes a reality. That's all I said. However, you can believe whatever you want. It doesn't bother me.
Well again, you might have a valid point there, as I'm not discrediting anything that you're saying. Look, I'm not here to defend Mr. Bush, or any faction of the military spending here. All I said before is that the military will always be a necessary evil that society needs to function. That's just a fact.
The question is does the defence of America require having military bases in 130+ countries: out of a total of 190+, around the world?
Well I don't disagree with you there. Personally, I think America needs to say screw everyone else, and start worrying about their own problems exclusively, since we shouldn't have to worry about policing the entire damn world. Sorry if I sound like a jerk, but that's honestly how I feel.
No I just know people and they are going to look for a leader naturally.
I think everyone is missing the point here, it's not so much that America is in everyone's business or that there is a great threat to terror or any of this stuff. It's that the top one tenth of the one percent of the world all are seeking to have a one world order, currency and nation. One leader, one religion, singularity. Th United Nations is the jumping off point for that. The farther the value of the dollar goes down the closer we come to this NWO reality.
The game changed about a hundred years ago when the world shrank, it changed again about 60 years ago and yet again ten years ago when the top one percent realized that they can use the term, "War on Terror" to impliment thier own agenda at the expense of it's people. America is not the only ones exploiting their people and the fact the there is a cry in the "wilderness" right now demands that a leader rise up amongst the herds, and this isn't a new leader for America, this is a leader for the world! Egypt, America, Greece, the list goes on. The entire system is breaking down and the this is where the worlds elite need it to be so that they may "swoop in and save the day" only they wont. If I had to guess I would venture to say that they are looking for a firt class, second class socity where the obivious is that they are the first class and everyone else is second.
I've been a believer in what you say for years and years and more years. I get called "conspiracy nut" so often that I attempted other angles to help folks see what the truth of the matter is.
It's not working. Most folks are plugged into mass media, and believe what the corporate whore on the television screen tells them.
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