Obama quotes Jesus

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   Onusonusposted 13 years ago

   Do you think that charity means government mandated redistribution of wealth at gun point? Or is charity a willful act of kindness?
   
   http://www.mrconservative.com/2012/02/1 … -to-obama/

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      Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Charity is charity, government is theft and force.
      
      Only liberals confuse the two.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No, charity doesn't mean redistribution at gunpoint, or even at legal point.  It means helping those who cannot help themselves.  Some say Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid aren't viable charity, but indeed they are; we should help the elderly and the disabled and young who cannot fend for themselves. It's different from redistribution of wealth because redistribution (socialism) is a bid against the free market and includes anyone, even if they don't need help.
      As far as charity for those I mentioned above like the elderly, etc., those should be mandated, as they are.  But not blanket socialism.
      
      Mandating redistribution of wealth takes away not only the freedom of free enterprise but the option of the wealthy or able to choose what charities they want to help.  The wealthy or able should have the individual choice of putting their extra money or time or whatever toward whoever they want to.  Yes, charity is and should remain a willful act of kindess.
      
      And Obama has no business messing with that, nor does he have any business even quoting the Bible, because he pulls that card out whenever it's convenient for his own agenda, but mocks the Bible when it's concepts are inconvenient for his agenda, and claims to be Christian when it's convenient for him but claims otherwise when it suits him.  Pshaw on his fake Bible-quoting..

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         livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You don't say...

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            Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Apparently she do say.

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               livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               No, see I think she was talking about Obama there, not herself.
               
               I was a little confused, too.

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         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "And Obama has no business messing with that, nor does he have any business even quoting the Bible, because he pulls that card out whenever it's convenient for his own agenda, but mocks the Bible when it's concepts are inconvenient for his agenda, and claims to be Christian when it's convenient for him but claims otherwise when it suits him.  Pshaw on his fake Bible-quoting.."
         
         LOL.
         
         Kind of like when some people pull out the Old Testament when they want to get support for gay-bashing, but try their best to ignore the bits in the New Testament about feeding the poor, healing the sick, or welcoming strangers.

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            Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Maybe the bible shouldn't be used at all when governing.

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            DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Question? Are you out of the closet? You always stick up for the gay right and bring it up all the time? You said a while back that you weren't? I'm just curious.
            As for helping the needy, I believe most Americans believe in helping. The problem is enabling and keeping people down just to secure their vote is wrong and truly not helping anyone. Years ago the government wasn't involved and people seemed to be fine, People helped each other.
            
            As for gay rights, abortion etc... The government shouldn't be involved. Each state could have their own laws and if you do not like it move to one that fits your belief.

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               Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               "Question? Are you out of the closet? You always stick up for the gay right and bring it up all the time? You said a while back that you weren't? I'm just curious. "
               LOL, why? Do you want to ask me out or something?
               No, I'm straight. Why does it surprise you that a straight person cares about the rights of gay people? I'm White, too, but I also care about racism.

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                  DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  But you always bring up the gay rights issue, this thread didn't have anything to do with it and you brought it up again, yes you talk about the other stuff but your main focus is always on Gay stuff. And No I don't want to ask you out, I'm straight. You sort of look like Barry Manilo. And no I do not hate Gay people. Actually they are extremely good people.

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                     I am DB Cooperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     If we're talking about the role of the Bible in politics and government then gay rights is absolutely an issue relating to this thread. If we pick and choose from the Bible to promote policy it's possible to support just about anything, including peace, war, tolerance, racism, socialism, male superiority, and gay bashing.

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                        DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Sorry, but this particular thread isn't about gay rights. Obama wasn't quoting JESUS about gay rights. why must a lot of you twist to fit your own agenda?

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                           Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           +100
                           
                           They often like to pretend they have no agenda, even when it's exposed wide open.

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                              Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Again with the LOL. Pointing out the hypocrisy of the religious right is easy and fun; there doesn't need to be any agenda.

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                           I am DB Cooperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           It was actually Brenda who turned this into a thread about the Bible and politics when she accused Obama of picking and choosing when to use the book to support his policy. If Obama can't selectively quote from the Bible, why should anyone from the right?
                           
                           I openly admit to supporting gay rights, and yes I am heterosexual. There is no hidden agenda here, it's right out in the open. I'm not the one here who is accusing people of being gay because they support a particular policy decision, and then hiding behind that homophobia by making the curious claim that "I do not hate gay people. Actually they are extremely good people". I don't hate gay people either, but I've never known them as a collective group to be "extremely good". What about gays has made them good to such an extreme?

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                              Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              " If Obama can't selectively quote from the Bible, why should anyone from the right?"
                              My point exactly.

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               MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Pro-lifers seem to have some sort of vested interest in abortion... are they secretly fetuses?

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               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'm straight also and a strong defender of gay rights.
               
               I don't own a gun and I defend the right to bear arms.
               
               I'm white and support civil rights for those who are not.
               
               I'm an atheist and a strong defender of freedom of religion.
               
               I vote and I'm a liberal with money and a brain.  Scary combination, I know.   I'm sure you don't like that.

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                  HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Well you don't scare me! lol

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                     MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Well he scares me!  No one man should carry that much smexiness.

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                        Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Actually, I forgot: I don't have money or a brain any more.. and I'm not sure I want to be smexy.

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                           MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Smexy is good.  It doesn't trip filters that think the word sex is a curse word.  (I know HP forums doesn't have such filters but I've grown used to the word). To me it implies the level over sexy.

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                              DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I thought it was a sexy Mexican. SMEXY

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                                 MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Hmmm... I didn't think PC looked all that Hispanic .  And Mexicans can be smexy too.  It's just not a requirement either way

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                                    Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    It is indeed fortunate that there are no requirements -  I have a difficult time meeting criteria.
                                    
                                    Back to the awful socialism, abuse of benefits crap.. not in response to you, of course.
                                    
                                    The facts are that private charities like churches never did enough - that's why we (that's right, we, not some fascist dictator) began government welfare programs. 
                                    
                                    The right wing should note that although some of us do have compassion, public welfare is actually hard-nosed fiscal policy - it's not good to have too much abject poverty.  It breeds disease, it can be self-perpetuating, it can be a cause for social unrest and it costs extra money for police and jails..
                                    
                                    We all dislike welfare cheats.  What the right regularly ignores is that the worst cheats aren't the poor, but rather those who build their wealth by cheating the programs that are intended to help - doctors making false Medicare billings, innumerable fake Medicare supply companies..
                                    
                                    Cutting welfare programs only hurts the truly deserving.  It doesn't stop the cheating doctor - he'll just do more fake billing to make up for cuts.  It doesn't hurt the person who is a welfare cheat - they'll find something else to fake.
                                    
                                    Of course we should pursue fakes and cheats - and we do.  But that is often the first thing that goes with welfare cuts.  A program that barely has enough money to survive gets cut and of course they look at their auditors and investigators first.   Who  wouldn't?  Steal food from a child's mouth or cut the hours of the fraud unit?  Easy choice..
                                    
                                    But why do I bother?  These fools just KNOW someone is cheating them and they hate that.   You can't reason with people who are incapable of reason.  This is the politics of anger and needy people suffer because of it.

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                                       DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Just for the record, Republicans actually give more in donations than democrats. Look at the last election, Obama/Biden  McCain/Pallin their tax returns showed the dem side gave about 8% to charity and the republican side gave 23%.
                                       So to say the republicans do not care for the poor is just ridiculous!
                                       
                                       Then you claim the Church's do not do enough to help the poor? They still do even more than the government now! the government takes from the working class and gives to the poor to keep them down, so they can vote for them to keep that measly check coming. How does that truly help them? all it does is enables and that is not what this country is about.
                                       From your posts you have that socialist mindset, and that is what destroys countries. just look at Europe. many people are too lazy and looking to milk the system. the only reason you think you do is you must be one of the leaches. If you worked hard and gave your hard earned money to people capable of earning for themselves you would not like it! You can spin your nonsense BS to others, common sense says your a far left wing taker then a giver.

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                                          Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          Republicans give to churches.
                                          
                                          That isn't charity even though they call it such.

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                                             DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             First you are blinded and miss informed. the republicans do not only give to churches, if you have these facts please show them!
                                             secondly the churches help many people. you truly need to stop watching MSNBC, everyone knows they are full of $hit. Churches give and help more than any charitable organization! Very sad that you are against churches and try to tarnish how they help. I know you far left people hate GOD but you do realize they want to stop everything with god but our government buildings especially courts have "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the wall in everyone.

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                                                Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                Churches give conditional help.
                                                
                                                Many people are not religious - why should they have to go begging to an institution that professes beliefs they do not share?
                                                
                                                Yes, those of us who understand the importance of religious freedom want to remove its influence in government.  That's because we are smart enough to understand how important that is.
                                                
                                                I don't "hate" things that don't exist, by the way.  Do you hate Invisible Pink Unicorns?

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                                          Josakposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          Yeah there are idiots everywhere, you completely failed to answer any logical points you made random accusations then looked at Europe and said look how badly they are doing because of socialism! When firstly Europe is not particualrly socialist and second the US isn't doing much better. You could have looked at countries with actual socialist or communist governments like Argentina (exponential economic growth for the last 8 years since socialism was introduced) Venezuela (has tripled te average GDP since socialism was introduced) or even just Cuba which has a higher life expectancy than the US and the best healthcare in the world from being a corrupt banana republic before socialism.

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                                             DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             And if you want to bring out those socialistic countries you fail to leave out the people do not have the freedoms we do or the rights we do to have incredible lives! That is the most important part! Can someone live the way we do under Chavez? almost everything goes to the government and they give what they want to the people,very big difference! The United States grew and became what it was by capitalism, the harder you work and more determined you are the more you achieve! the lazier you are and less determined the less you have!
                                             
                                             So you believe if your a doctor(surgeon) and sacrificed and went to school for 12 years and work 80-100 hours a week that you should make the same as someone who partied for 4 years in college and never applied themselves and has a warehouse job? sorry I do not!

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                                             DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             And how are they random accusations? You can easily look at the tax returns of the candidates from the 2008 election and see for yourself. You do not like the facts and try to spin your far left socialist nonsense. sorry I'm not one of the dumb puppets who believe that $hit.

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                                       DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Also why do you far left people have a problem that you do not want to have these people collecting benefits to be drug tested? If you were serious about stopping fraud and abuse than you would be for it! then the hypocrisy comes in and you people say it is against the constitution and your rights? again when it suits you people, you use the constitution but most times your against it.
                                       
                                       I also believe if your on welfare and welfare paid for a baby for you, you should get your tubes tied! why should a lot of these people keep having kids when they can't afford to take care of themselves. More milking the system! is that right that women on welfare and medicaid should just have as many kids as they want when they do not pay for them? If you need the help then their must be rules to go along with receiving the help.
                                       
                                       I know you won't like what I wrote and play the your insensitive BS but i don't care. It is the truth and all you can do is spin your socialist nonsense.

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                                          Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          How do you know I'm against drug testing?
                                          
                                          I'm not.  I wouldn't use it to deny benefits, however.  I'd use it as a screening tool to identify people who need addiction treatment.
                                          
                                          As to "welfare breeders",  that's a common myth of the far right, but even if it actually did exist, what would you propose to do about it?  Many people have strong religious beliefs that consider any form of contraception - even abstinence with married couples - to be a sin.  Should we interfere with those beliefs?  I'm an atheist and I wouldn't do that - it surprises me that some Christians apparently don't care about that.  It's easy to understand though:  their precious money might go somewhere without their permission!

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                                             DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             Stop lying you are against it if you just said you wouldn't deny them the benefits if they came up positive! SEE MORE BS SPIN!!! how can you seriously say your not against drug testing and then write what you just wrote? even you should see the BS in your post! ANY normal person knows if they are addicts the money they receive will not go for what it was intended for! they would steal your underwear for a high! you seriously are blinded and I figured you were atheist when you said what you did about churches. Don't worry when your on your dying bed you will give in...Almost everyone does!
                                             
                                             Also I have seen many and you are blind if you don't see the baby making machines that keep collecting welfare and medicaid and continuing to have babies. It is also a known fact that most of these poor kids grow up to commit crimes because they do not have a solid mother and father guiding them in the right direction! sorry if you are so blind to see the truth and live in your little bubble! I live in NY the liberal capital of the us along with California. the two states that are on the brink of bankruptcy because of all this socialistic BS. we have the highest taxes and the most debt! is this by accident? I think not. wake up

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                  DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm also a registered Democrat, Why do most of you think If someone does not like Obama they must be republican? I do not believe in socialism, I do not like most of his policies, who he has in his cabinet and think he is a big liar! I voted for Hillary in the primary. Love Clinton, hated Bush and totally despise this socialist POS.

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                     Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't think you must be a Democrat.  I think something else entirely.

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                        HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't register to be any label. lol I just vote for the best man, which never appears to show up most of the time. lol

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                           Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I'm not jumping for joy over Obama, believe me.   He's a poor foil against the ridiculous far right of the GOP.
                           
                           However, he's all we've got.  No other Democrat could beat Romney.
                           
                           Not that Romney himself is all that awful.  He's a moderate and probably would do pretty much what Obama would do, but having a Republican POTUS and a strongly Republican House is a dangerous combination as it gives that right wing even more power.
                           
                           So, I'll be voting for Obama and wishing people were a whole lot smarter than they are.

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                              mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              How ironic.

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                     lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Pro-Choice is in the Democratic platform....why are you Democrat?

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                        DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Maybe for you Pro-choice is the platform! for me it is helping the truly needy! not enabling people! I always thought being a democrat meant to help people??? where did this change? Personally I do not think abortion is right and if far along in the pregnancy you have one, I think you committed MURDER! but it isn't for me to judge and will leave that for god to decide. I don't think the federal government should make decisions and left for each state and hopefully have a time frame if they do decide to make it legal. It is proven that after a couple of months the baby can feel the pain when they cut it up and destroy it! have you actually seen one being done at a late stage? if you have I believe you wouldn't think this animalistic way.
                        
                        I love the way the far left spins stuff to fit their views. seriously I was always taught the democrats were for helping the needy, when did it change that in order to be a democrat you had to be pro-choice?

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         DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Social Security is not charity! how can it be charity when you pay into it? not everyone gets the same amount. It goes by what you put into it. So it is definitely not charity.
         
         As for Obama and bringing in Jesus, He only does this when he thinks he benefits from it. How come he isn't speaking "JESUS" when he is demanding Catholic Hospitals and medical services to give Contraception? He is a Hypocrite and the biggest liar. Even more than BUSH! and I didn't like BUSH.

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            Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            "As for Obama and bringing in Jesus, He only does this when he thinks he benefits from it."
            Just like any other politician.

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               DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               So I guess for you that is OK. Because everyone else does than its OK for him. very nice!
               
               Also Ron Paul doesn't lie or say things you want to hear, so I guess that truly doesn't apply to every politician.

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                  Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  "So I guess for you that is OK. Because everyone else does than its OK for him. very nice!"
                  No, I just think it's funny--no, I think it's knee-slappingly hilarious--that the religious right gets all bent out of shape when someone from the left reminds them that Jesus talked a whole lot about taking care of the poor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, etc. But the RR has no problem using scripture to justify their policies of screwing the poor, exalting the already-wealthy, keeping gays as second-class citizens, and scapegoating Muslims and immigrants.

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      Josakposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think the consequence of charity is what matters (people not starving) not how it was gained, if people won't give to save fellow humans then you won't see me shedding a tear if its taken from them.

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   lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

   No--that's called Republican policy: Re-distribute the wealth up to the top.
   
   Cause as you know: Paulson threatened Marshall Law if the banks didn't get their bail-out.
   Business threatens to leave America if they don't get dirt-poor wages and cheap working conditions...
   
   And it's pulling teeth to get the Uber rich to pay taxes like everyone else...
   
   Somehow, I think Jesus would be on Obama's side.

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      Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Ok, it wasn't really a yes or no question. So you think that the government is redistributing the wealth to the top? I think that if you took a look at exactly where all our tax money goes you would see that the opposite is true.
      Here you go;
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u24nH03NccI
      
      And if we were to tax the uber rich the same amount as everyone else they would have much more money.

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      Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      And boy, was Marshall Law upset about that. You can't go around and threaten police officers.
      
      But to the OP: Meh. The right loves to invoke the old Testament when talking about their policies toward gays and abortion and so on. It's only fair that the left gets to invoke Jesus when talking about their policies of feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and so forth.

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         Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I'm all for feeding the hungry and healing the sick, as I believe any other Christian is. However you are under the assumption that the government is capable doing it effectively.
         
         I think Ben Franklin said it best; “I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

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            Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            "However you are under the assumption that the government is capable doing it effectively." And I take it that you assume that government can't do anything effectively? This is exactly the reason it's not such a good idea to elect right-wingers to office: they have a vested interest in proving that government doesn't work. Would you let the guy who wants to prove that your airplane can't fly be your test pilot?
            
            But Franklin was right. That's why we have things like Pell Grants and other government-sponsored ways for lower-income folks to get education and training, and why government assistance doesn't give those who need it an "easy" life.

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               Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               While Pell grants are definitely a viable resource I think that they are dwarfed by the rest of the entitlement spending that is crippling the economy. Welfare has been interpreted by law makers as a right and people do what they can to leach onto it to suck it dry, not that they aren't getting encouraged to do such by the government.
               When I was starting off I thought it would be a good idea to get on WIC as I had five other mouths to feed. But when I was more capable to sustain myself and my family on our own I decided to quit getting that assistance after a couple of years. This was based on my own motivation to not be a contributor to our nations debt problem. The people at the WIC office tried everything they could to keep us on their program, but we refused their help.
               You see they project numbers in order to guarantee that they will get the same amount of funding for the next year. So you see a social worker's livelihood depends on the amount of charity cases they can get, otherwise they are out of a job.
               had I not made the decision early on I would still be looking for a handout to this day.
               
               Now you implied that Jesus would be ok with the government going into the comprehensible debt that they are currently in, in order to feed the hungry and heal the sick, consider this;
               
               "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." Timothy 5:8

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                  Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  "You see they project numbers in order to guarantee that they will get the same amount of funding for the next year. So you see a social worker's livelihood depends on the amount of charity cases they can get, otherwise they are out of a job."
                  See, while I agree that this is a problem with the system, it's not evidence that WIC is inherently bad.
                  
                  "had I not made the decision early on I would still be looking for a handout to this day."
                  And had you not had WIC to support you in those early years, when you were not capable to sustain yourself, where would you be?
                  
                  "Now you implied that Jesus would be ok with the government going into the comprehensible debt that they are currently in, in order to feed the hungry and heal the sick,"
                  I'm not implying it; I'm flat-out saying it. And so did He:
                  
                  "But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
                  And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just."
                  Luke, 13-14, the words of Jesus.
                  
                  I see that you seem to hold Paul's words as more important, and I guess that's okay. But I disagree.

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                     Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Who said I wasn't capable of sustaining myself? I just wanted to be more comfortable. Actually I was talked into it by somone who makes a living off of finding ways to get money from the government. But hay, no body's perfect, I used to vote democrat. 
                     
                     And I still don't see where you get "take money by force from one group and give it to another", in your bible look up. And if you knew what Paul was saying throughout the entire text you would easily see that he too admonished being charitable in all forms, with your own money, not with other people's. And yes Paul's words are equally valid as Jesus taught weather it is by his mouth or by the mouth of his servents, the prophets and apostles, it is the same.

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                        Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        "Who said I wasn't capable of sustaining myself?"
                        You implied it pretty strongly when you said: "When I was starting off I thought it would be a good idea to get on WIC as I had five other mouths to feed. But when I was more capable to sustain myself and my family on our own I decided to quit getting that assistance after a couple of years."
                        
                        I took that to mean that you didn't have the skills to do work, and took assistance until such time as you were able to get a good job. I never thought you were one of the folks who sponge off the system until you said, "I just wanted to be more comfortable. Actually I was talked into it by somone who makes a living off of finding ways to get money from the government."
                        No doubt you're paying back, with interest, all of the money you took from the government even though you were actually capable of sustaining yourself and your family.
                        
                        "But hay, no body's perfect, I used to vote democrat."
                        That's okay, you can be forgiven for stopping.
                        
                        No, seriously, it doesn't matter which party you vote for, as long as you vote for a good person.
                        
                        "And yes Paul's words are equally valid as Jesus taught weather it is by his mouth or by the mouth of his servents, the prophets and apostles, it is the same." Even when it's the exact opposite? That's pretty impressive.

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                           Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Voting for a good person, I agree. The party doesn't matter as long as they are qualified and they completely agree with me.
                           
                           "And yes Paul's words are equally valid as Jesus taught weather it is by his mouth or by the mouth of his servents, the prophets and apostles, it is the same." Even when it's the exact opposite? That's pretty impressive.
                           
                           So how do you come to the conclusion that they are opposite exactly?

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                              Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Oh, Paul contradicts Jesus all over the place.
                              
                              Tere's a great list of many of the contradictions here.
                              
                              I think one of the most important ones is this:
                              
                              Paul tell us,
                              
                              "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
                              Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
                              But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. "
                              (1 Corinthians 5:9-11)
                              
                              But Jesus hung out with--and ate with--all kinds of sinners, as we learn in this passage:
                              "And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
                              And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
                              But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
                              But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
                              Matthew 10-13
                              
                              Mark has the same story.
                              
                              So, yeah, Paul contradicts Jesus. And lots of folks like Paul's words a lot better than Jesus' words, so you're hardly alone. Really, it's no big deal for the discussion at hand.
                              
                              The main point is, the religious Right are making themselves look like goofballs by getting all bent out of shape when Obama invokes Jesus, especially since they invoke the heck out of scripture when it suits them.

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                                 Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 That list was really weak. Somebody must have done a lot of research to try to make their point but the arguments were severely lacking in context.
                                 
                                 And there is a huge difference between Jesus reaching out to those who were sinners, and Paul's warning not to keep company with them. Yes we should not refuse them from entering churches and synagogues as the pharisees did in Jesus' day, but we should not allow an unrepentant sinner into our lives to influence us and drag us away from living by the doctrines and principles set in the gospel.
                                 
                                 You see in a modern day context a true believer in Christ would be fine with seeing people like you going into a church, because when you go to the church you most likely are desirous of repenting of your sins and believing in Christ. But people weren't like that in Jesus' day. They didn't let those people in the churches at all.
                                 However if a christian person were to accompany them self with the unrepentant, whore mongers, and unbelievers, they only justify that person's actions, and become negatively influenced by them as well.
                                 
                                 So the bottom line is; Paul doesn't contradict Jesus, he only adds to the principles taught by him, and he was an authorized servant to do such.
                                 
                                 But to say that the right quotes the Bible when it suits them is throwing stones in a glass house when clearly our president has bashed on the very same book that he has now quoted. The right simply does not do that.

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                     HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     ha ha, that is why I decided to start writing, being a social worker if I depend on the government to make sure I have a job I won't. They have already cut grants to most non-profits, and of course we only get paid for being the underdog by donations or fundraisers if the  government doesn't come through. I don't get in these discussions, because when you work with these people you understand there are those that abuse the system, but at the same time ligit people that need the help, and the ones that do  need it are the ones suffering the most.

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   HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago

   Well obviously someone voted in Bush and Obama, so I guess America as a whole is to blame! They keep choosing bad Presidents.

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      Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Amen to that.

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   Druid Dudeposted 13 years ago

   Perhaps we all expect paragons of virtue where none exist.

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   Eric Newlandposted 13 years ago

   I'm appalled both by the lazy who live off the government dollar and the genuinely needy who are on the street and not getting a dime.
   
   The problem with government aid is that it is, by definition, bureaucratic. Thus it favors people who know how to work the system and ignores people who can't (unless they happen to have someone who can advocate for them). This creates an amusing but tragic situation when it comes to, say, disability. If you can jump through all the hoops it requires to get on disability and stay on it then odds are you're completely capable of working (mentally, anyway).
   
   As a rule I'm very much in favor of programs that have a lot of workers at the bench level and are dedicated to creating permanent benefits instead of temporary relief, such as mental health. And I'm very suspicious of programs whose primary purpose is to mail out checks or some other kind of currency-equivalent. I'd much rather see private charities take care of the latter, as I simply think they do a better job at getting resources to the people who really need them. And I'd rather only render unto Caeser what is Caeser's.

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      HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You God that right!

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      DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Very true! It bothers me that the people who need it most can not get it. and then you have people in supermarkets buying food with the government card and getting into their brand new cars and driving away!

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         HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ha Ha even more amazing when they pull up in a brand new car, and come to food pantry and clothing shelter. Take clothes and food! lol

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   brimancandyposted 13 years ago

   Obama isn't the first president to quote the bible. In fact, if you look at what the republican's are doing as a whole these days, they are using the church and the so-called word of god to promote themselves, and people are falling for it.
   
   Like the whole Marriage is sacred BS, and gays are bad. They may not quote the bible, but they sure have the church in the back pocket. Which is why they are getting millions of dollars from christian groups to push this garbage down our throats. They don't really care.
   
   And, wasn't it Bush who was saying, hey lets stop the government payout of social programs and allow the church to take over. I say bull crap on that. I have dealt with these so-called church sponcered charities, and they are out for one thing, and one thing only, and that is taking in 100 percent donation and giving 5 percent back. If they give that back at all.
   
   I also do not see what businesses giving money to charity has to do with Obama. You do know that a lot of the reasons big companies danate money to charity is because it is a huge tax write-off. Not only that, it can also set them into a lower tax bracket, which makes them pay less in tax dollars, and the write off could actually allow them to profit on their deduction. Some corporations don't pay any taxes at all, and it may sound strange but a company like GE pays -66% taxes which means they get 66% of their income back every year.
   
   I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have responded to this post. It's obviously just the billionth attempt to make Obama look bad. Also, just because there are charities doesn't mean they are good. I wrote a hub about my experience with charity, if you would like to take the time to read it.

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   pisean282311posted 13 years ago

   when did usa ever follow jesus's teachings ,that it will follow now?

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   phillippeengelposted 13 years ago

   In my non-committal opinion, charity is not executed solely by legislations; charity is given, shared and redistributed naturally by well-off and fortunate people for the more needy. Some of us may perceive that paying taxes makes up a portion of the government's budget to improve the standard of living in the country, and in that case, it is mainly for charity.
   
   But think about it. Laws are subjected to limitations because people can evade them. Ultimately, charity is executed at one's discretion, and not the ruling party.

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   Wordsntoneposted 13 years ago

   I think Obamas' comments cloudy and muddy the issue regarding how as a nation we deal with the issues of poverty.  As a Christian who takes the Bible seriously for this debate, the center is how the Christian community advocates for the needs of the poor--not just hand outs, but good solutions to hinder generational poverty....The way we talk about the issue polarizes us into conservative-anti-government vs. liberal-big-government catagories---this isn't helpful.

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      HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I can't say for other communities, but ours does have a board, and all the churches together meet to discus issues concerning poverty. I think like many of us social workers understand we can't do anything, because the big guys up in Washington know best, instead of allowing local states and counties have a say in things. We know what it is going on, but we don't believe the Government does.

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    HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago

    I would have to agree with you Danny the Churches around here are picking up the slack, and fortunately one Church is broke at the moment, because their funs are depleted for the fist time ever in their history because so many people are out of work and jobs. Most of the Churches are asking for help, because they can't handle it on their own anymore.

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       DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       If you look at all the self help programs like AA, NA, GA, they all have their meetings in churches, they feed many people, I have also seen many pay utility bills for some! I'm not the most religious person but I can see and admire all the great work the churches do.
       
       These far left people like to spin when they do not have facts to back up their fight. They try to say the republicans hate the poor, throw grandma over the cliff etc... this is all BS and they know it! no body wants to do this but that is all they have and need to scare people into thinking that way.

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          HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Yay, I can back up those facts I live in a republican are by majority and they fill the churches. lmao! I'm not a republican, but I've grown up with them in this area, and I have to say that they do pay the utility bills at churches, hand out gas cards, laundry supplies, even a laundry mat just for those that need it. I've seen them fix home repairs, plumbing, car repairs. They got it covered in this are through churches. The government don't even cover some of the stuff the churches do.

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             DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I'm also not republican. But just hate what this clown in office is doing to this country. I actually voted in the primary for Hilary. then the media used the race card against her when she went after obama and his church! the far left(Socialist) were blind to see that and refuse to admit, even though Bill Clinton admitted it many times. If they can go after their own how can you trust them?
             
             Churches do a lot and fools like the one who wrote churches do not do anything is a sorry excuse for a human being. Then to also say they aren't a charitable organization??? Please can you say delusional.

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                HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                delusional! Halleluijah! lmao!

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       lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       They should pay taxes lik the rest of society...they should give a lot...since they avoid taxes!

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    HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago

    Well I'd have to to every church in my community to get a print out, and of course ask every person permission, but if you'd like to pay for it, no problem.

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    lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

    I'm not far left...I like Obama, they don't.
    
    He is hardly a lefty by any means.
    
    How can you be in a group when you don't support a basic ideology...that of women to make their own choices?

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       DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Like I stated the democratic party is for the needy to me not to commit MURDER! i personally do not give 2 $hits what anyone does as long as it doesn't effect me or my family.
       
       Obama is a socialist! have you read his 2 books? I have. first the 2 books look like 2 different people wrote them, when someone has a style of writing it is usually the same in all their writings. second is his cabinet, they are all marxist, socialist and known communist! and he even said he wants to transform America! He wants to redistribute wealth! sorry honey that is socialism! not what this country was built on!

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    lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

    I've never in my life heard a Democrat speak that way...ever. And I'm 51.

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       DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       That is what you call a true Democrat! not a socialist! I want to help people who truly need it not enable them! sorry I'm not a far left idiot!
       
       My parents came here from Italy and we were poor! we struggled by were very close family and worked hard and made it! I believe in safety nets when something unfortunate happens, but also believe it is up to yourself to make yourself better! Look what happens when unemployment was 26 weeks most people got jobs on the 22-24th week, when they upped it to 52 weeks the stats show most got jobs on between the 46-50th week. why is this? because many milk the system and that is wrong. I know people who have done it! they said I'm going to take some time off and get some free money! these same people will never build themselves up to be self sufficient because they do not have the will and determination to be successful and you want the people that go to work even if sick to help support these lazy POS? not me! Then the people who truly need the help get shafted and you are OK with this? I'm the true Democrat not you! your a socialist. I wish you people would stop infiltrating my party and I'm 46 honey so not far off from you.

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    lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

    And this sounds like a Democrat how......?

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    lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

    Ok...I'll switch to Republican! "Those darn corporations are ruining America with their global reach for power, profits and the down-grading of American lives".
    
    You believe me?

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       DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I see a lot wrong with the far left republican Party too. Not all is as bad as many make out to be. Your just taking what you heard on MSNBC, huffington post and some far left organizations. both sides have issues but if we lose our civil liberties the US as we know it will disappear. I would bet that you are down and out and that is why you believe all this class warfare BS. That is what they want you to believe. I do not think a president of the United States should be dividing people and just a clear indication of his true intentions, Wasn't he the one who said he was going to bring everyone together??? If you can not see what is going on then I feel sorry for you! I know many democrats who voted for Obama and is not this time! the Media is down playing everything to try to fool the stupid people and I personally do not think it will work this time as it didn't in the 2010 election and the massive a$$ kicking that occurred. I'm a democrat and want the socialist out of my party!

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          Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          You want to bet that I'm down and out?
          
          
          
          I'm not a socialist. I'm a liberal.  I know it's hard for you to tell the difference.  They never explain it well on Faux News.  But, considering their audience, it is best to keep things simple, isn't it?

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             DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I'm also democrat as i wrote, but I guess you do not comprehend very well. Believe me I'm also very well off (because of hard work and sacrifice) and I love to help people but not enable them and believe everyone should take responsibility for themselves. Too many lazy people, even in my family and friends. They tell me I shouldn't work so much, but have the balls to ask me for money. of course I help and always get screwed. everyone thinks they are entitled.

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             DannyMaioposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             And any how, I just noticed that post wasn't even directed to you so besides not comprehending what people post you do not even know whom they are speaking too. It was Lovemychris not you so my advise would be to do your homework before responding. Maybe you should watch Fox it is much better than MSNBC and that is a fact!

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    lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

    I know exactly what is going on. A small Cult is throwing a psy-op on the whole country.
    
    Turning good into bad, and bad into good. It's Orwellian allright, but some people have the useful idiots wrong. IMO

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