Why. . .

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SirDentposted 11 years ago
do we have to die? Can science explain the why? I know the Bible tells us we die because of the sin of the first man.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This is why we die?
  
  Well - think about it some, because this is one of those massive inconsistencies that make your religion so silly as to be worth disregarding.
  
  1. According to the bible - none of us would have even been born without the "sin" of the first man of not doing wot god sed. Adam and his second wife, Eve, would still be frolicking in the Garden. (Side question - did Adam ever get a divorce from his first wife?)
  
  2. Without death, and all you Christians breeding like flies - we would have about 7,000,000 billion humans on the planet by now. Bit of a squeeze dontchathink?
  
  If this - as Jerami says - is an underhanded attack on proven scientific facts - evolution has no concern for individuals, only genes.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Adam didn't have a first wife aside from Eve. You've been lied to.
  
  By the way, thanks for comparing Christians to being like flies. It really says something about your character.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No - you have been lied to. Lilith was his first wife.
  
  I said "breeding like flies," - sorry you didn't understand. It must be very frustrating for you.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No - you have been lied to. Lilith was his first wife.
  
  Why would you believe that story, over the story in Genesis? I wouldn't expect you to be able to separate the lies from the truth, in something you don't believe to be true anyway.
  
  I said "breeding like flies," - sorry you didn't understand. It must be very frustrating for you.
  
  Yeah, you used the word "like", as in, you're a lot like my uncle. Or, you're very much like a lion. It shows kinship, and is the basis for a simile.
  
  No wonder you can't even understand the bible. You have no command of the language which you already use, and can't even tell when you're insulting people!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Why would I believe one myth over another? More to the point - why do you believe any of them? I don't believe either of them, - according the mythogy - Lilith was the first wife, but - she wouldn't do as she was told, so she was replaced by a more subservient version taken from Adam's rib. The Misogynist version if you like.
  
  Yeah - as in "breeding like," as opposed to "like," but - if the cap fits. Sorry that you cannot make the distinction.
  
  Ah attacking my comprehension skills - how very Christian of you.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Why would I believe one myth over another? More to the point - why do you believe any of them? I don't believe either of them, - according the mythogy - Lilith was the first wife, but - she wouldn't do as she was told, so she was replaced by a more subservient version taken from Adam's rib. The Misogynist version if you like.
  
  And yet you continue to propagate the lie, over the truth... Of which you don't believe in? Continue deluding yourself, if you wish, but don't take others down with you.
  
  Yeah - as in "breeding like," as opposed to "like," but - if the cap fits. Sorry that you cannot make the distinction.
  
  Yeah, as in "breed like..." Flies. You compared Christians to flies, dude. Get over yourself.
  
  Ah attacking my comprehension skills - how very Christian of you.
  
  Pointing out the root of your errors, isn't my problem. That's all you, buddy. Your errors, are your problem. So in essence, you're mocking me because you're wrong. Not very mature, at all.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am not mocking you. Just pointing out that I said "breeding like flies," and did not compare you to flies. Sorry - us monkeys have no problem with flies.
  
  I don't propagate a lie over the truth. The "truth," is that Adam had another wife - according to the myth your book was based on. But - the men who re-wrote it has a low opinion of women - so, you got the misogynist version.
  
  Still - to be fair - no matter how gluttonous you guys get with your breeding - you are never going to compete with the flies.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am not mocking you. Just pointing out that I said "breeding like flies," and did not compare you to flies. Sorry - us monkeys have no problem with flies.
  
  Simply put, you're a liar.
  
  I don't propagate a lie over the truth. The "truth," is that Adam had another wife - according to the myth your book was based on. But - the men who re-wrote it has a low opinion of women - so, you got the misogynist version.
  
  Michael Heiser, PhD. disagrees:
  http://vimeo.com/8588767
  Michael Heiser - Gnosticism (part 4) - "Gnosticism and Women"
  What the bible really teaches about women, compared in contrast to the Gnostic view...
  
  Wrong again, dude.
  
  Still - to be fair - no matter how gluttonous you guys get with your breeding - you are never going to compete with the flies.
  
  And yet, the bible is the oldest living document in human history, no matter how hard it has been tried to suppress it? (Living, because it has yet to "die out" no matter how many lies are spread about it). Beelzebub, the father of lies, can't kill the truth.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Lost me. You guys spent 2,000 years murdering anyone who would not submit to Christianity and this is an attempt to suppress it? LOL Now that is the funniest thing you have said. You guys also spent 1,000 years burning any other documents, so I am not sure what your point is there.
  
  The Gnostic view? What does that have to do with Jewish myths?
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_of_Ben_Sira
  
  I am not a liar. You can go back and see what I wrote any time you like. "Breeding like flies," is what I said. But - as flies are a distant cousin - what is the problem? Bet plenty of religionists wish they could breed like flies.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Lost me. You guys spent 2,000 years murdering anyone who would not submit to Christianity and this is an attempt to suppress it?
  
  No. The very churches that claim to do service to God, suppress the truth. Though some people claim Jesus as their savior, God has a special punishment for those people who do violence in the name of Christ. They are false prophets, and go headlong into the lake of fire. They will not get away with their sins.
  
  The Gnostic view? What does that have to do with Jewish myths?
  
  Judaic Gnosticism, that's what. Things like Kabbala and Jewish Mysticism. Things that God told His people, not to do.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Gotcha - they were not real Christians. How does that affect the 2,000 years of forcing people to convert and the 1,000 years of burning books? I mean - ya think ya would still be here pushing this nonsense if not for that? Seriously - without that - your religion would be gone.
  
  I see you did not bother reading up about Lilith. Too lazy huh?
  
  Once again - sorry you did not understand. I can feel your frustration.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Gotcha - they were not real Christians. How does that affect the 2,000 years of forcing people to convert and the 1,000 years of burning books?
  
  Right. All Christians are blood-thirsty animals. Just like all men are "intensely-lustful" pigs? Didn't think so.
  
  The Roman Catholic Church, and the greater part of the "Protestant" movement (pushed by kings and queens in an effort to hedge power against the RCC), were all evil machinations of greedy humans. I don't have anything to do with that nonsense, and it has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ who said to do violence to no one.
  
  I see you did not bother reading up about Lilith. Too lazy huh?
  
  It isn't that I don't know or haven't read about it, it just isn't worth replying to. But since you asked: Lilith is just a "type" or incarnation of "Sophia" -- And therein lies the connection to Gnosticism. It was a Jewish-mystic story, before it was a Gnostic-Christian one.
  
  You really need to study this stuff more, if you want to actually make any sense.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are confusing "Myth" with "Gnostic" - sorry dude - you really aught to do some more research. Your bible was taken from Jewish mysticism and Lilith is part of that mysticism.
  
  Awesome that you have now distanced yourself from all Christianity - weird that you were claiming the bible to be the oldest document despite (Big LOL) the "attempted suppression."
  
  The only reason it is still being stuck down people's throats today is because of 2,000 years of enforced religiosity - now all of these guys are the bad guys? Triple laughie for you. Let me guess - they were not real Christians.?
  
  I suggest reading what I wrote in future - that may help with your comprehension. In the meantime. I will try and explain using smaller words:
  
  Jewish myths = bible stories. Some got in, some didn't. Lilith didn't.
  2,000 years of forced conversions = the only reason we are discussing your majik book.
  
  Bloodthisty animals? Yes I guess that is an appropriate description of the way Christianity was spread. Try reading a history book or two.
  
  Then you can explain to me why you reject one myth as a lie, and another as the truth?
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Your bible was taken from Jewish mysticism and Lilith is part of that mysticism.
  
  Shows how much you really don't know. You're completely cluess, dude. I'm obviously wasting my time with you, as you only continue to do two things:
  
  1. Reject the instruction of learned scholars, like Michael Heiser PhD, who is telling you that there is a very clear difference in the texts. They were written by different people, and not a part of the story at all. They don't match up with anything in the bible, except for a few names. That's about it. But guess what? Lilith isn't in the bible, at all. It isn't that she was "erased" from the bible, she just wasn't there, because the story is a lie.
  
  Can't help you see the folly of your own so-called "knowledge".
  
  2. Mockery. What purpose does it serve, really? And then you go on to deny that you were even mocking anyone? Who are you trying to fool, exactly? Do you think other people aren't reading this too, and thinking what kind of a jerk you really are? Your true colors are bleeding through, because you have nothing else to stand on except ridicule.
  
  You're a fraud!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  1. Please try reading what I wrote - it would help communications considerably. I never said Lilith was "erased," from the bible - I said that particular myth did not make the cut and the Eve myth replaced her. Nothing to do with truth or lies. Things do not go in your majik book based on whether they were a lie or the truth. But - are you saying you think Adam was a actual person.? In any case - she did make it in.
  
  2. Ah - back to personal insults. Just goes to show what sort of a Christian you really are.
  
  Having said that - if you make ridiculous claims - why should you not expect to be ridiculed? After all - this is what your majik book tells you will happen.
  
  You still did not answer my question. Why do you believe one myth over another?
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  1. But - are you saying you think Adam was a actual person.?
  
  Yup.
  
  2. Ah - back to personal insults. Just goes to show what sort of a Christian you really are.
  
  Just using my hypocrisy to illustrate your own, because I knew you would fall back on this idiotic argument. You have no problem insulting other people, so why should you care if people insult you? Why am I put to a higher standard, than you?
  
  Full of it.
  
  You still did not answer my question. Why do you believe one myth over another?
  
  Because it isn't a myth.
  
  Imhotep is Joseph, and Tutmosis is Moses. The Egyptian accounts of those two people, parallel that of the bible. Lots of great research on that. Israel was in captivity to Babylon, and Nebuchadnezzar was a real king of Babylon at that time. God created everything, and there was a flood. Jesus was born of a virgin, and died for your sins. It's all true.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No - I understand that the Christian myth was stolen largely from preceding myths. It is still a myth though. So - why reject the Lilith part of it?
  
  Sorry - virgin births, nonsensical need to die for imaginary sins? Not making any sense.
  
  Glad to see you admit Christians have no better morals than anyone else though. That is good. Well done. Therefore your religion has no real value - does it?
  
  Israel was in captivity to Babylon now huh? Interesting. I love the way you guys rewrite this stuff to suit. I am well aware your religion was stolen from previous myths - you are the first Christian to admit it.
  
  LOL that Adam was a real person. What was his Egyptian name? What were Lilith and Eve's names?
  
  What a shame the flood thing has also been proven false. What was Noah's Egyptian name?
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  SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Just a reminder for you.
  
  2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
  2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Just a reminder for you.
  
  SirDent,
  
  It might be, that this man is blinded by his own sin, in denial of God. But there are others out there, who have the same questions; and if it weren't for my good pal here, Mark Knowles, no one would be hearing the truth right now. Some people are afraid of the truth, but know it when they see or hear it.
  
  Keep telling the truth, no matter how hard they protest. We were told already that we'd be hated for His name's sake. So we must be as wise as a serpent, but harmless as a dove.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No - I understand that the Christian myth was stolen largely from preceding myths. It is still a myth though. So - why reject the Lilith part of it?
  
  Because scholars, and I personally, agree that those things were added at a later date, in an attempt to degrade God. If the bible is true, then The Enemy is attacking on all fronts. He's relentless, and he wants you to die, because he is our collective Enemy.
  
  But Satan is not God's enemy, because God has no enemies. It's a real big misconception with what religion teaches, and what the bible plainly teaches: If you're on God's side, you have nothing to worry about. It isn't like His rules are very hard, are they?
  
  First and foremost being, to love God. What's so hard about, to love the Creator, who died in your place, to forgive you of your sins?
  
  We all deserve what we get, because you can't honestly sit there and tell me you're a good man. You've done bad things as well. And guess what? None of the good things you've done, make up for it!
  
  But that's the whole point, you can't pay for your own sins. There is no way that you will be able to save yourself, and that is what Satan doesn't want you to see. Satan doesn't care about you, or anyone that worships him. You're all just pawns to him. He's promised the same thing to everyone else, what makes you so different? Nothing!
  
  But God said that He loves you, and yet you still hate Him? Why? Just get it out of your system, and tell us why.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh dear,
  
  Back to self righteous preaching at me.
  
  I can honestly sit here and tell you I am a good man - sorry. Sin free.
  
  Not sure where you get off telling me how bad I am, but - this goes to the root of the reason your religion is so divisive and causes so many conflicts.
  
  Please stop bearing false witness against me. I don't hate your Invisible Super Being - I simply don't believe it exists. Weird - it is almost as though you don't actually believe the stuff you preach. Bearing false witness is a punishable sin - yes? According to your mythical beliefs?
  
  The vitriol you aim at me is somewhat out of place, considering all I have done is not believe the things that you believe - why is that? Do I offend you so much, just because I don't accept the mythical ideas that you accept. If the bible is true? Of course it is not true. I already proved this to you guys on another thread.
  
  Scholars agree Lilith was a part of the original mythology, nothing to do with an attempt to "degrade god," by adding it in later. Funniest thing you have said so far I think.
  
  Lilith was added in order to "Degrade God." Had to say it again - it was so funny.
  
  You do know there is 2 versions of the Creation of Humans - Yes? Although I see the Liars For Jesus™ Brigade are busily re-writing the one version to match the other, you will notice a strange inconsistency in the Creation of man (generic man) stories. Can you spot the difference?
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  SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible does not say this. Here is what is written: Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
  
  This was before Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
  
  Not so sure about it being a bit of a squeeze. The Earth has undergone many changes since it was first created. We really have no idea how much land there was in the beginning as compared to seas and oceans.
  
  My original post was not an attack on anyone or anything. It is just a thought and question that came to mind.
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  dove777posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  we are a dot on the eternal line of the life force, we continue, think of the way the nervous system works, leaps along synapses....we can not comprehend the vast complexity of reality of how the lifeforce exists. We are passing along , no words can even describe or do justice,..... our soul is what remains eternal. Eternal , big word, what does it mean?
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Does that also include every other living thing on the planet? Does everything else also die because of the sin of the first man?
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
  
  All of creations is going through the "birth pangs" of sin, to be "delivered" of sin. It was like a chain reaction.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Is that why God killed off the dinosaurs?
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh - why did god kill off the dinosaurs then?
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Read 2nd Peter chapter 3.
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  Taurus2posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You talk like my sister Maita. She's a little strange type, anyway.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Is that your own opinion or do you have any verses from the Bible to support that claim?
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wait... You actually want me to quote scripture to you? lol, okay.
  
  "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." - Romans 8:22.
  
  We have a deliverer from this pain, and His name is Jesus Christ.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, it's amazing how you found a verse from the Bible and created some entirely different conclusion from it.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So, now you believe in the bible or something? You're going to sit there and pretend to know something about it, when you argue against it all the time?
  
  Make up your mind. Do you want to believe, or not? Because me quoting bible verses to someone who doesn't believe, is a waste of my time. But, if you're as sincere about this as I am, I'll help as best I can.
  
  "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." - Revelation 21:1.
  
  Why would God destroy the old universe if it was working "so well"? Because it is tainted with sin. Just a little yeast, levens the whole lump.
  
  "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." - Revelation 21:5.
  
  God makes all things new. Sounds pretty awesome to me.
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  SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am not sure if it includes every other being on the planet or not. There is no mention of anyone or anything dying before Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Then, we can probably conclude humans die along with everything else and for very much the same reasons, hence the concept of dying because of first sin is just a silly superstition.
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  dove777posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  why is growing old and our body dying a bad thing? it is what it is, thats the way it is, we live in finite material bodys, born with so much time locked into the cells of our body, an amazing ochestra aging simutaeously, passing through the seasons of our life. The important part of us is our eternal soul.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There's no such thing as souls, eternal or otherwise.
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kathleenkatposted 11 years ago
Because nothing is perfect; including our cell regeneration. With time, we degrade, and age, and die.
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  SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Kudos for giving an answer to the question.
  
  The body is made to replenish itself. When we get tired, we can rest and feel refreshed. When a bone is broken, it will heal itself over time. White blood cells fight off infection, which is foreign to the body. .so another question arises. Why does the body wear out?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This is a natural process called, "ageing." All life goes through this process and eventually dies. Not as a punishment - this is just the way of things.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing
  
  If you look around - this is normal. As to your last response - good oh - glad you are seeking knowledge not attacking proven science.
  
  But - we do indeed know how large the earth was - sorry. It was never 7,000,000 times larger than now.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  A layer of ice, like a dome that encircles the whole earth, could've been where all that water came from. It could have been that this ice layer compressed the atmosphere, increasing the oxygen content in PPMs to a point that causes saturation in living things, yet still let in sunlight while blocking UV radiation which causes... Aging.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Funniest thing you have said yet.
  
  Where all what water came from? The water that provided 7,000,000 times the land mass to cope with all the people that did not live forever because Adm didn't obey God? Right.....
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  kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The body wears out for the same reason. We are constantly regenerating on the cellular level, but eventually, copies of copies of copies of cells fail. Much like continuous photocopying of a picture.
  
  There are also parts of our body that do not regenerate. For example, the discs in your spine, separating your spinal bones; once they wear down, they don't grow back. That's why many elderly people have back pain, and are a little shorter than they were in their youth (crazy!)
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
I think what was lying under the surface of Sir Demts Question is ... "IF" we have evolved from slime oozing up out of a pit. why did this evoluting process stop evolving at this imperfect stage in the process.
After coming so far; Why did the process stop 99.99999% complete ???
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So glad you asked.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Z44Hp0Eec
  "Unlocking the Mystery of Life" by Illustria Media.
  (Approx. Runtime 1 hour.)
  
  If you're open-minded, you'll watch it and at least consider the implications, if true. If all you do is watch it, just to know what the other side of the argument REALLY is, then you'll at least know how to refute it. I mean, it is refutable, right?
  
  Not believing is not about a lack of evidence. We resist accepting God, for the evils of the world. But ya know what? You asked for a world without God, and ya got it. This place is full of evil things and the people who do them.
  
  And we blame God for it? Why? We're pretty evil, all on our own.
  
  The bible shows us the origins of that evil, that rebellion against God.
  
  "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." - Revelation chapter 12, verse 9.
  
  Notice the bold part? That is referencing a specific serpent.
  
  http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … &t=KJV
  ophis; "ofes" - Masculine noun! 1) snake, serpent; 2) with the ancients, the serpent was an emblem of cunning and wisdom. The serpent who deceived Eve was regarded by the Jews as the devil.
  
  Yes, that very same serpent, from the Garden of Eden. He's not our friend, but he's not God's enemy. God has no enemies, and you can trust that with your soul.
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  jenb0128posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Evolution has not stopped.
  http://www.livescience.com/16358-human- … ction.html
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Evolution never took place. Genetic variation, "micro-evolution", is not evidence of one type of animal turning into another.
  
  Birth records from a church in Quebec only show a trend at which people were having kids. What the heck does that have to do with evolution? Nothing.
  
  "The researchers didn't look at which genes might have changed over time, ..." - Oh gee, I wonder why? They don't look, because they know it isn't there.
  
  "Seeing natural selection in modern populations is incredibly difficult." - So difficult, it's impossible! Natural selection can only select from what is available!
  
  They have to practically beg you to believe that evolution is true, when you read that.
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  jenb0128posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Keep denying all you want, but just because you don't want to see the evidence doesn't mean it's not there.
  
  http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm
  http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … ution.html
  http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
  
  I'm sure you've heard of "superbugs?" Those bacteria that are now resistant to antibiotics? How do you think they became resistant? Evolution.
  http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar … 80401_mrsa
  
  There's more proof of evolution than there's proof of God waving a magic wand to create life.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Keep denying all you want, but just because you don't want to see the evidence doesn't mean it's not there.
  
  The same could easily be said of you and your disdain for the truth. Why even say something like this?
  
  I'm sure you've heard of "superbugs?" Those bacteria that are now resistant to antibiotics? How do you think they became resistant? Evolution.
  
  De-evolution. The bacteria became resistant to antibiotics because they lost (not gained!) a piece of genetic material, which caused the antibiotics to become ineffective.
  
  I've heard it all before, and used to argue for evolution because I didn't know any better. Now that I know it is a lie, I see that there really is no evidence to support it.
  
  There's more proof of evolution than there's proof of God waving a magic wand to create life.
  
  Big misconception.
  
  We're arguing the conclusions, of the same evidence. God doesn't need a second special set of evidence to prove His existence. All of creation declares the glory of God, and you miss it in the details. It isn't because there isn't evidence that God exists, but only because you don't want to believe He exists... Because if God exists, there's like, rules and stuff you gotta follow.
  
  But no one likes God's rules, even though they're very simple to follow:
  
  Love God first and foremost, and, love your neighbor as yourself. (Luke chapter 10, verse 27).
  
  Why is it so hard to love God?
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  kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Because humans are no longer subject to natural selection; we are constantly finding new ways to prolong life and help others who would otherwise not necessarily live to the age of reproduction. Here are some examples:
  
  Glasses/contact lenses
  Insulin for diabetics
  Wheel chairs
  Hearing aids....
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That doesn't make sense. Old people are well beyond their years, and have already passed on their genetic material. Some even have grandkids, you know.
  
  There's nothing to "select" from, except already existing genetic material.
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pisean282311posted 11 years ago
it is understandable that bible would come up with concepts to explain death...it is human attempt to understand death...But we must have holistic view and see other species too...human body has life cycle ...
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
Ceegen
I think that you may have misunderstood the intent of my earlier post.
I do believe in a higher power. And this entity (for lack of a better word) apeared to Abraham.
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah described in the OT.
I believe that the book of Revelation is what it says it is. Visions which were given to John while on the Isle of Patmos in the year 96 AD. Rev 1:19 write the things which thy hast seen and things which are, and things which shall be hereafter.

According to what is written in the OT , the Rapture happened in 138 AD (Daniel 11:45 & 12:1)When the 14th king belonging to the fourth kingdom comes to his end.At this time shall Michael stand up for the children of Daniels people. It is no coinsidence that the little horn comes to his end at the same time as that Hebrew Nation came to it's end of Days

Another lie which the RCC instigated is to falsely translate the children of Daniels people as anyone conforming to Catholic doctrine.

These are "THE two Biggest lies" which the RCC was built upon.
Jesus said that "THIS generation shall not pass till ALL of these things be fulfilled" but no one knows what day or hour that it will happen. BUT when it did happen, that time was no longer a secret.
Two hundred years after the fact ... the RCC was formed and it edited and rearanged those sacred text which were included in the canon in such a way as to best acheive its purposes. And for the next 1000 years the RCC destroyed any and all opposition to its doctrine.

Does this mean that Catholics are going to go to Hell. ...Absolutely NOT ..... because Hell is an invention of RCC doctrine.
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  Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Whoa whoa, I replied to SirDent. I have no idea why my reply appears under your post. I was trying to do the whole "rhetorical question" kind of thing, ya know?
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Emile Rposted 11 years ago
Well, maybe we die so others can live? You can't procreate forever without some negative consequences if death isn't in the mix.
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  SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible states that Abraham and Sarah had a child when they were old. Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  My point wasn't that old people can't do the wild thing. But, if we all have kids, who have kids, who have kids; sooner or later someone needs to step aside to make room.
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  Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That term sounds nice ... step aside or move on words to think about ,,, like "replentish"
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yeh.. The use of the word replenish is fascinating where it is placed in the text, but I've read that was just a poor word choice by the translators of the time. Too bad.That would be a fine how do you do if we find out we're descended from aliens who had wiped the planet clean before dropping us off and it was there all the time in that book.
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  kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I would like to point out, that at the time the Bible was written, people who lived to 40 were considered "old."
  
  These days, it is apparent that most women remain fertile until their 50s, when they go through menopause.
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Davidsonofjesieposted 11 years ago
Think about,Ceaser.mahamed,hitler and stalin,what would this world be like with those people living for-ever
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @david with muhammad living for ever , world would have been totally peaceful by today....had he survived just one century more , we would have had only muslims in the world...that man was amazingly successful ...
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  muhammad was a thug,he raised up armys and killed thousands,he had a 12 yr. old wife and he liked little boys as well,he made peace treaty's with cities just long enough to get strong and kill them,you know that they can rape and kill and as long as they can pay off their family's it's o k
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peeplesposted 11 years ago
The Earth needs fertilizer is a good enough explanation for me.
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Cardisaposted 11 years ago
Bible aside.....

We die because everything is a cycle. The moon rotates around the earth, the earth around the sun.

We go through the cycle which is life in order to breathe or breed new life. If we didn't die the earth would be overpopulated or there would be no space for new life. We have to die in order for others to live.

Egg, larvae, pupae, adult.......then death...then it starts again. Just like the butterfly so is all life form. Evev rocks are formed into new rocks then disintegrate into smaller rocks then goes the cycle again. Every life has its purpose and that purpose is to eventually die so that the new life may thrive.

Simply.....we die in order for life to continue..................................
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
Mark wrote .... 2. Without death, and all you Christians breeding like flies - we would have about 7,000,000 billion humans on the planet by now. Bit of a squeeze dontchathink?

If this - as Jerami says - is an underhanded attack on proven scientific facts - evolution has no concern for individuals, only genes.

====================
Me
When I made that comment you speak of,it was not an attack on scientific facts; I was answering an Atheists comment about how evil God was for allowing death and suffering. I do think that "IF" we could stop the dearh process we would also have to stop the birthing process. Which brings a question to mind ??? What "IF" we could remove the birthing gene , would the natural deteration within the human body cease. Now that is a scarry thought!

Fish produce a hormone through their skin that when their population becomes too great, the hormone level becomes so high in the water that the population becomes steril until that hormone level falls back to normal. But we are not fish. sinse we are not smart enough to handle it ourselves, Our population has to be controlled by war and starvation disease etc..
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kathleenkatposted 11 years ago
*Sigh* this was potentially a great topic until religion was brought into it. I don't even understand why people are bringing up religion; we die, regardless of what we believe.

/kathleenkat out.
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grand old ladyposted 11 years ago
I would not like to live forever. Our bodies would wear down and then we still have to live, even if we are unhealthy. However, even if I could look 21 all my life and live forever, I think the earth would eventually bore me. At least in the afterlife, come what may, we are guaranteed that it's gonna be different.
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Chris Johnsposted 11 years ago
I would bet the answer lies within the mystery of magnets and how they work.
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getitriteposted 11 years ago
A delusion is defined as a false personal belief based on incorrect inference about external reality and firmly sustained, despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary (DSM-IV, p. 765).
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
"incorrect inference about external reality" you say! pretty words! ..... but what exactly are you saying? does this not imply that there are two realities and they are different?

Is our definition of reality not one which deals only with details contained within the internal reality of which we find ourselves. There are no tools within our reality which can acurately measure
that which is outside of our reality.
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  getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It appears that you are creating a strawman fallacy. Reality is reality, all else is delusion, unless you can prove differently.
  
  We can only fathom what we can from our finite and dull senses.
  
  You mean outside of our perception. Reality remains the same.
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
Jerami wrote:
"incorrect inference about external reality" you say! pretty words! ..... but what exactly are you saying? does this not imply that there are two realities and they are different?
= - = -

It appears that you are creating a strawman fallacy. Reality is reality, all else is delusion, unless you can prove differently.
???????????

It apears that you LOVE the term strawman falacy whenever you want to evade a question!!

===========================================================
Jerami wrote:
Is our definition of reality not one which deals only with details contained within the internal reality of which we find ourselves.
= - =
you .... We can only fathom what we can from our finite and dull senses.
=== ----
ME A simple yes or no would have been an great answer.
======================

Jerami wrote:
There are no tools within our reality which can acurately measure
that which is outside of our reality.
= - = -
You mean outside of our perception. Reality remains the same.
= - = -
NO ... I meant exactly what I said. I was talking about definitions of reality. The substance
of reality in one enviroment IS different from that within another enviroment.
On the surface you apear to be good at arguement.. belittling that which in essence you are saying the same thing but are describing it differently. GOOD for you!! if it makes you feel more superior?
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  getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami,
  
  Sometimes it is difficult to understand what is being conveyed from written words. I;m simply trying to understand what you are trying to convey. Sometimes concepts demand more intricate and thorough explanations. I wasn't purposely being condescending or asserting superiority.
  
  I did not see the relevance of your statement about two different realities. Why two?
  
  Of course if we were on a far away distant planet, we might have evolved(or been created with) different senses, for a different environment, with different laws. Now I hope we are both discussing the same thing.
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
getitrite said ....I did not see the relevance of your statement about two different realities. Why two?

======
I was reffering to this comment that you made, ... "A delusion is defined as a false personal belief based on incorrect inference about external reality and ...."
Does this not imply ; when you say EXTERNAL reality, that there is also an INTERNAL reality????
Two distinctly different ???
I was just asking what you thought of this? but I got something other than an answer.
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Johnny2Ballsposted 11 years ago
Facepalm.
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