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I would like to hear your ideas in regards to changing the name of the "Christmas" season to something more appropriate so as to lose the concept of gaining converts and power in the name of Jesus.
Perhaps, we should go back to the name, "Yule"
Please...now you will start up the "war on Christmas" arguments. People can call it what they want.
That's fine. If they have arguments in favor of keeping the name, they're free to present them. Simply calling out a war on Christmas will be duly ignored.
I'm not a religious person but most of my friends and family are. I have no problem referring to the day as Christmas... The name of the holiday means little, its the spirit of the season that means everything. When speaking of it in conversation I always use the term Christmas... When writing about it I often, but not always, refer to it as Xmas. The commercialization of the holiday has already changed its meaning for most. I see no reason to have to change the name as well.
I love the use of language in that sentence. You said the name means little, but then said a season has a spirit?
No, I didn't say the season had spirit, I said "the spirit of the season" and where I come from this is the same as saying the "mood" or "atmosphere" which is commonly shared by many of the same community.
Yes rearrange the same words and you can get a different meaning which is why I am pretty careful when choosing my words.
Yes the spirit of something is a term we use often, but why do we use the word spirit to express the vibe/mood of the atmosphere? How did that word come to mean Ghost, soul and mood? Look, I don't have to rearrange anything to change the meaning and imply that the seasons/atmosphere/mood are control by the super natural. "The spirit of the season" can also mean the season has a spirit without changing any words, if you just think of the word spirit as mean a ghost with you say it. I just found it interesting.
How about pre-broke season? Lets just call it what it is. First we do a little damage to nature by cutting down a tree then we spend money we don't yet have to help the economy. Sure it's described as a religious holiday, but we all know what it really is.
Yule isn't Christmas. Yule is the pagan feast of the winter solstice (from which most Christmas traditions are drawn), so calling Christmas Yule wouldn't work. Christmas is Christmas, and Yule is Yule. No need to re-name them.
in sweden they say 'good yule' around Christmas time. by the way, Christmas means Mass for Christ. If you don't want to celebrate it, don't. Why not change the celebration of new year? That's much more of a Christian thing since it celebrates however many years since the birth of Jesus /Anno Domini
Aww - there you go again. It must be very frustrating for you. Maybe you should check your facts before posting stuff? I think wikepedia will let you take a peek.
It must be very frustrating to be so old and yet still so unwise. I don't need to scroll the internet for information thank you. I have something called an education.
Little wonder your religion causes so many conflicts.
So, because you are ignorant of your Christian heritage, my religion causes conflict? What an absurd argument
He was remarking, albeit tersely, that the Christian Church moved the official birthday to co-opt the time of a pagan holiday. So the pagan tradition was the original resident of the date. This is a matter of church record.
It also makes sense simply on the basis that pagan traditions pre-date the birth of Christ, whenever that might have been. Given the narrative in the Bible most likely not in winter as shepherds aren't out in the fields in this season (amongst other things).
Well sure, everyone knows it was a pagan festival originally, but that wasn't what he (Knowles) said. The church made a point of celebrating on a day when celebrations were already happening.
However, in Israel at this time of year, it is very likely shepherds would have been in the harsh, barren desert land with their sheep. They didn't have snow like we do.
Sure they had snow and very cold temperature, just as they do now. But that is not the only indicator of a spring or early autumn date.
The point is, it doesn't really matter. The Queen has a public celebration of her birthday on a different day to her real birthday. It's what suits society and traditions. Winter is the time when we in the west traditionally slaughter our animals so it works as a time for great feasting and the coming together of communities. A good time for an anniversary.
Which does bring us back to your original point. People not celebrating Christ Mass still have plenty of significance to celebrate on or about that day--still involving feasts and trees and gifts etc.
I'm all for people calling it whatever they want to call it for their household. With a generic umbrella term to be inclusive in public announcements.
I have a suggestion for the umbrella term. Let's call it Christmas!
That is certainly an option, but not an inclusive one.
Oh, but it is. Peace on Earth, goodwill towards man.
What mass? Come on over for sorrell and rum.
Ya know, it's a bad enough world without you trying to stir things up here on HubPages. You are full of nothing but controversy and evil thoughts. I know you enjoy what you are doing but you are hurting some peoples feelings here, so much so, I had to talk to one person to prevent them from leaving this site. There is a name for people like you and its called Cyber Bully. This is a pathetic way to hide behind forums in order to do your bullying. Instead of being mean to others and others beliefs why don't you try to write a hub or two. Your only purpose here is to fulfill your need for attention and you thrive on it. It's time you thrive someplace else and stop. I can only say you are one troubled person and I feel bad for you. "He who is without sin should cast the first stone." You are casting stones to deliberatly hurt and it's high time you knock it off.
Cyberbully? Unless I'm missing something how is posting questions and replying to debates on a discussion forum being a bully? People have the choice to engage in it or not. If people take things so personal then they are allowing themselves to be hurt. Perhaps you think ATM can take it but some of your words towards him personally are negative and can be considered rude.
Of course, you're referring to the world that has been ruled by folks who embrace religious beliefs.
Yes, and I eat newborn babies for breakfast, too.
Sorry, I don't believe that for a second.
A Cyberbully is one who uses communication technologies to deliberately harm people, kind of like those who used the internet to cause Amanda Todd to recently commit suicide, for example.
You're free to point out anything YOU consider cyberbullying, if you can't, you must retract your accusations and apologize immediately.
Why don't you join a bowling league or grow flowers?
Actually, that's exactly what YOU are doing right now.
Is it? Sorry, I lost my watch.
Odd, that's exactly the kind of quote I should be presenting to you.
Actually, the real reason is because I don't share your belief system.
And of course, I never said anything to you or anyone else to intentionally hurt them and you felt compelled to dishonestly fabricate false accusations.
Who is the one really casting stones here?
Christmas is a day not a season. Consumerism has made it a season. Also, Christians didn't steal holidays from the pagans. Holiday means holy day. Holy days didn't exist before Christians invented them. Perhaps in reclaiming your pagan heritage, you stop hijacking holy days for your own non-Christian use? or would that be unreasonable?
It would appear your education has let you down here. Try researching the facts before making those claims as that is something a person with an education would do.
I guess for those folks who don't celebrate it as a religious holiday, there wouldn't be a problem with changing the name. Some have a winter solstice celebration - some have a celebration of peace on earth - I base my celebration on the birth of Jesus. I guess what you choose to call it should completely depend on how/why you choose to celebrate it.
Interesting. Even though it was the Roman Catholic Church that arbitrarily decided to choose Dec. 25 so that they could replace the pagan festivals celebrating the annual return of the sun with a holy celebration, thus not having to risk producing a discontented population and a return to pagan values?
I don't mean that I believe Jesus was born on December 25. Regardless of when He was born, my tradition has always commemorated that day on December 25.
You know me better than to think that. And, you know exactly what I meant when I answered your post. Don't be a brat.
I keep trying to get my wife to bake Jesus a birthday cake, but she says our oven isn't big enough to bake a cake that would accomodate 2012 candles!
No. I don't support a name change. It's a selfish desire to expect to enjoy a holiday and then complain about the fact that you have to call it the name of the holiday.
Instead of attempting to force a name change maybe you could come up with a new holiday. Name it whatever you like. If we all like the idea, maybe we'll all take the day off.
But, it's actually supporting a name change back to it's origins, BEFORE Christians decided to take it for their own.
This is ridiculous. If the Christians chose a day that coincided with another holiday from another culture then it isn't 'changing the name' as you appear to be claiming. They named a holiday for their celebrations. The other cultures apparently didn't have a fun enough holiday schedule...which is why their celebrations and names died out.
Actually, this whole thread is beyond ridiculous. No one is forcing you to participate in the festivities. Just ignore them if you like. Or, you could do the mature thing and call your festivities whatever you want to and let others do the same.
LOL! You actually believe it was a coincidence?
Yes, ignore facts.
No, I don't believe it was a coincidence. But I don't think anything was stolen either. In the beginning, I assume the day was chosen in order to help new Christians channel their desire for celebration into a Christian activity. I don't see that as a bad thing. If we change it, then someone (possibly you?) will decide that it is wrong to call it the ancient name, because a more ancient name existed that a less ancient culture changed to suit their fancy.
Where would it end?
Christmas falls on the time of the winter solstice, as with many, many other winter holidays. Christmas is the combining of the traditions of the Roman Pagan holiday of Saturnalia and the Germanic and Norseman Yule. The only thing Christian about Christmas is where Pope Julius I designated December 25th as Jesus' birthday. Happy holidays would be sufficient.
“shop till you drop day”….. oops…. We already have black Friday
“Buy your loved ones affection day”….. nope…. We have valentines day
“Assign a monetary value to love day”…. nah…. Refer back to Valentines day
“Eat till you puke day”…. negative,… we already have thanksgiving
“teach your kids to hunt for candy like a tweeker hunts for meth….. Shucks…… Easter is taken
“Cover your home with garish and tacky well lit décor day” …… we have Halloween
“Blow things up and loose your fingers while burning down your house day”…. damnit this is a lot harder than I thought,…. Though I’ve often considered combining Christmas with july 4th,… I love explosives
“Get drunk and pretend your related to some one else day”……. whoops,…. St patricks day (but I tend to do this at Christmas)
“Scare the s**t outa yer friends and family season” …. I know that’s supposed to be Halloween,…. But it happens with my family at Christmas more often than I can recall
“Make up a holiday because white folks cant give da baby jesus even a lil’ bit of tan day” ,.. Er uh,.. Week”…………. negatory ….. Kwanza done got dat covered
“dradle dradle dradle,… pass the matza ball ladle day”…… Chanukah is spoken for
You know,….. You cant mess with success,….. It’ll just have keep it Christmas,…. If you cant rename it, you can still redefine it,…… just ask America,…. We’ve redefined it to death. I personally look forward to Christmas with the same glee that I might look forward to kerosene enema... with a blow torch chaser
Your name is defiantly right you are a troubled man .... If you don't like the reason for the season don't celebrate it ! ... Your a trip obviously you are sad and pathetic it's already called everything but what it should be ... Accept it and start your own holiday im sure more of you will hop on the ban wagon. #pitiful
wow,.... while i suspect that the OP starts these discussions for the thrill of the argument,.... i at least dont call the OP names,....
so far i've read "pathetic" .... "sad"..... oh yea a "trip".. (trip has both good and bad connotations)...
the thread has been called "ridiculous" and "pitiful"...
this sort of chat does indeed bring the bats out of the belfry.... ALL of them.
i see it as a somewhat valid question as every year we get into the BATTLE of the holliday greetings.
I will call it Christmas, you can call it yule, atheist can call it Dec. 25th....I would love to see people just come together...every single forum is just about how to divide, and point out how different we are...ironically that is one of the things I love about Christmas time, people are little more loving, kind and charitable to one another...
That is one of the things I love best about Christmas; people come together for a short time in a more loving, kind and charitable society without regard to their religion or beliefs. There will always be holdouts, of course. People demanding that Christmas not be celebrated here or there, always trying to divide, but most of us ignore them.
Christian's celebrated Christmas on December 25 because they wanted to convert people to their beliefs. They definitely co-opted the holiday.
Why don't you embrace the spirit and change your name to "Happy Guy", or more appropriately, since you are really a woman, "Happy Gal".
I too could offer some terms to change in your userid. Sage could become Sewage, for example.
Are we having fun yet?
At stclairjack - Didn't your daddy tell you never to start a fight with a stranger? We could put a "meoff on the end of your moniker and have a real good time.
wow,... that was original,.... next thing you know you'll invent the wheel,... meoff,.... simply amazing,... how DID you cum up with that one?
I thought this discussion seemed quite lively yet civil, apart from someone who called the OP sad, pathetic, etc. Some of us were contributing in a fun way without taking sides, while others were doing a bit of debating. Perhaps the OP likes to stir the pot and get people talking about the different sides of certain hot-button issues, but IMHO I don't think he/she is doing any bullying in this thread.
When I worked in the service industry, it was a rule that we say "Happy Holidays" to customers instead of "Merry Christmas." We had to sign papers each year explaining this, and would get written up if we broke this rule (for an idea of what that means, if you got written up twice, you got terminated). Basically, we were signing agreements to say "Happy Holidays." We were also required to sign such agreements, or would not get put on the schedule.
Then the hypocritical company would be closed for business on Christmas day to observe the holiday.
England once unsuccessfully attempted to ban Christmas celebrations!
No Christmas under Cromwell?
When the conflict broke out, most Parliamentarians had no thought of attacking Christmas, but, as Mark shows, all this was soon to change. Under the pressure of war, the puritans - zealous Protestants, who saw the traditional Christmas festivities as relics of Catholic ‘superstition’ – became increasingly powerful and in 1644 puritan MPs ordered that Christmas should no longer be observed. Parliament’s order was ignored in those parts of England which continued to be held by the king, but a year later Charles I’s Royalist army was crushed at the battle of Naseby. With the defeat of the king, Christmas had lost its most powerful defender, leading one sorrowful Royalist to lament that ‘Christmas was killed at Naseby fight’
Following Parliament’s victory, the ban on Christmas was rigorously enforced and churches across the kingdom were kept locked on Christmas day. Many tried to resist the directive at first, and groups of young men staged pro-Christmas riots in London and Canterbury, smashing the windows of shopkeepers who continued to trade on Christmas Day. Such riots were soon put down and by the 1650s Christmas had ceased to be celebrated in most English churches.
Christmas celebrations, according to Mark, were simply too deeply-rooted in English culture to be easily swept away. “The Puritans did their best to stamp the festivities out, but, in the end, the popular urge to get together with friends and family and feast at Christmas was too strong for them.”
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/humanities … mwell.page
Happy Holidays works! It is a holiday and its meant for people to be happy Its perfect. I believe in Christ so I go with Christmas, however, the USA is a diverse country, therefore, we have all types of religions and beliefs. Happy holidays is a nice neutral name for those who don't believe in Christ. We could even call it "gift day" haha but of course that is not the real meaning of the Holiday.
Not to mention there are other holidays celebrated at the same time. Christmas is only one day...
nevermind I wasn't sure if you were replying to me, but from the context I can see that it was not directed to me.
I wasn't writing anything against you if that's what you mean. But your post reminded me about where the concept of a holiday came from
Yule would be nice, it was a Medieval term coming from the Norse Vikings. It was used for X-mas as well. Why not? Yule would give the people a chance to celebrate even if they are not Christian.
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