The Conscious Vs The Subconscious-Which holds the true power?

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   adrianrocposted 11 years ago

   I'm a film director and screen writer who is currently working on my first film. I would appreciate the input of everyone on this topic. It doesn't matter how absurd your idea may be, many absurdities have revealed truth. If you discredit the existence of the subconscious, then by all means, elaborate and state why as well.

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      Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In my opinion, the subconcious mind has far more controll of the path we take in life.
      One reason is because it functions 24/7.  While our concious mind only works part time.
      Our subconcious mind knows everything that the concious mind is thinking while we seldom even recognize that it exists.   
         I don't know about anyone else but I run on automatic pilot most of the time.
         When I can't find my keys to the car;  I ask myself, where did I put them which is like saying, ... "Where did YOU put them".   OR    "Why did "I do THAT"?
         We find harmony in our lives when we become one with ourselves. What does that mean?
      
        Gotta go to Home Depot      back in a bit.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   I would suggest starting by calling it what Freud called it, the "unconscious".
   
   I don't see how you can deny that a lot of what our body does is unconscious--otherwise we would suffocate when we fall asleep.

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      adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I appreciate your response especially the part about, "suffocation" .

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      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Forgive me, and I'm sure you have a better understanding then me on this, so this is more of a question. Is breathing not really part of the function of the unconscious as Freud defines the unconscious? Sure, we don't consciously breath, but breathing is handled by the autonomic nervous system and not the thinking part of the brain?

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         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         That's exactly what I am saying.  The unconscious is all brain function that is not conscious.  Most of our bodily functions (including behavior) are unconscious or predominantly unconscious. There is no bright line between unconscious functions be they breathing, conditioned emotional responses or incorrect word choices. They are in the big box of stuff our brain does without telling us about it.

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         How do you know the biggest part: the Cerebrum which makes up 85% of the brain's weight is not thinking. What about dreams thinking, feeling thinking, dancing or playing with a ball — without your cerebrum.
         
         What about when your thinking hard or deep, you're using your cerebrum. Your memory lives in the cerebrum — both long and short-term memory

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            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Thinking with my feelings right now, by asking why not? Made a good living from many things that seemed unreasonable at first, then became reality to millions of other people later.

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         adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, but it must be duly noted that even the brain regulates the nervous system and all other bodily functions. It is the secondary premise upon which all us human beings function. Many persons associate the subconscious with only, "thinking" when indeed this is not so. The brain is holistically inclined but it is not self governed.
         If anyone opposes this view of mine I would really appreciate the challenge.

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            Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            In Freud's theory, the unconscious refers to the mental processes of which individuals make themselves unaware.
            
            Wikipedia -  "Freud viewed the unconscious as a repository for socially unacceptable ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions put out of mind by the mechanism of psychological repression. However, the contents did not necessarily have to be solely negative."

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   Rad Manposted 11 years ago

   Define true power?

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      adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Authority...more dominant.

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The subconscious mind is more powerful than the conscious mind because it is the 90% or greater white matter of the brain that is being used. Much like the spiritual unknowns until it manifested into the ego self.

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   Rad Manposted 11 years ago

   I think since neither the conscious nor the unconscious can function on it own, we can say they are equal partners in most people. A psychotic episode occurs when the unconscious completely takes over and there are people who have better control over there unconscious. It's not hard to spot people with poor conscious control over the unconscious, just look for people with impulse problems. Hoarders, unfaithful partners, poor impulse purchase choices, over eaters.

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      psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Would disagree.  Psychosis is partially conscious and partially unconscious like most psychological processes.  Both aspects become aberrant.

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      adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Rad man!   Where is the like button for your comment? That's beautiful man, I believe we are making headway with the topic. I remember I had a friend who suffered from a medical condition I don't quite remember the name. But the doctors realized that every other day he would slip back into the unconscious whilst awake. He would have conversations with himself, deep meaningful convos about his childhood and other detailed events in his life. He would emerge from it not knowing what happened. It kept on happening until he was no longer able to come back from it. He's dead now, walked off a building. He initially got that way because he overtaxed his thoughts, he tried to operate from his subconscious and read too many phony books.
      
      Point is, his unconscious kept him seduced and whatever it was showing him was more enticing than reality. That is why a majority of person remain crazy, the entertain the subconscious.
      
      However they are not equal. They operate together like an alternating cyclic monopoly.
      
      Even in the bible it says: who knoweth the mind but the Lord thy God.

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Rad did it without the over focus of the Bible.

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            adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Apology but I cannot decry the Bible in my explanation just as how Freud's theory is inculcated in another's explanation my friend. It is what I'm wont to.

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            psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, if this is a thread about theology, I have nothing to add.  Atheists have an unconscious too.

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               adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Yep. Of course, if persons are willing to divulge into the meat of the matter we cannot beat around the bush without drawing references. I am not here to challenge anyone about the Bible or God, not today atleast.
               
               But where as persons begin to draw on their theoretical references to prove their claim... then woooweee...I must use my Biblical references too

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               Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Atheists have an unconscious too.
               
               That sound funny, lol lol

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         Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks,
         If you haven't done so yet you should read about Carl Jung's Red Book. He purposely gave himself over to the unconscious (much like you friend) in an effort to understand the brain and the unconscious.

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            adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks, Radman..Ive read the book of which you speak. I have been through countless Jung Theories/journals etc....maybe all of them. I have done a lot of research for the film, but I know there is something missing. I need this film to set the record straight without the loopholes of the conventional film. REM sleep is another aspect of the subconscious at work.
            The subconscious as I have deduced based on all the theories, scientific journals and Bible, is not a place, it is more of a channel. Think of  it like a tube with two tennis balls connected to either end which represents the conscious and the spirit of man on either end.
            
            The spirit perceives through the subconscious which is altered by the conscious and vice versa.

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               Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               This is where your making an error as did Jung, trying to connect the physical brain to some kind of spirit. The unconscious is merely our good/bad 'wants' and 'cravings' that we don't want to know about. Our conscious mind keeps these wants in check. Some have better control of the unconscious while others do anything to get our wants. The unconscious mind may be asking the conscious mind to find a way to have sex with as many people as possible, for those with better control this is not a problem, but from some with a weaker conscious mind this will result in fidelity problems.
               
               I've also read a description of the conscious mind as just the part that does the play by play of our lives.
               
               Trying to connect the spirit or soul to the brain is futile.

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                  adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You've made valid points, but there are some logical fallacies in your prose. The seeds of the subconscious are sown by the conscious. I understood things of this nature even before divulging into these theories. What you have expressed above is psychology's delusion my friend. I do not wish to denounce your views but the mind itself is deceitful and all that you are saying is based on what you have been cultured to say. The same may go for me, and I may be wrong, or you may be wrong, but we both aren't right.
                  
                  What if I told you that it is this same reasoning and logic which prevents us from understanding ourselves, inadvertently limiting ourselves.It is that which betrays you with negative thoughts and clothes you with remnants of seeds sown by you. We are spiritual beings enduring a physical test. I have seen a girl when I was 12 possessed to the umpteenth degree by some unknown entity in my town capital whilst they dragged her into a church. Unless you have experienced such you will never understand that the brain perceives but behind it, we also perceive.
                  
                  The test of the flesh is the ultimate test because it is weak, it is all a mechanism in place.
                  
                  The unconscious is more than than that which you have mentioned.
                  Please challenge this, I need you to prove me wrong because I too may be wrong

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                     Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Perhaps you think this girl you saw was possessed because that's what you were told and a young mind is more gullible than a mature mind. If you were told this young girl was having a psychotic break would you have jump to her being possessed?
                     
                     All functions of the brain are products of the brain. Thought, memory, consciousness and unconscious thoughts. If you have a soul and would describe it as having memory an thought you should be able to take those things with you when your brain is shut down. But look what happens when the brain is purposely shut down for surgery, no thought and no memories and no passage of time is felt. You still breathe and your heart still beats because that part of the brain is not shut down. That is what I was getting at earlier about the breathing not being part of the unconscious mind as described by Freud. Unfortunately when we die the same process happens. Our memories, consciousness, thoughts and unconsciousness are gone. There is no way we can take our memories with us as there is nothing physical to store them in, without our memories and consciousness we are no longer us. Reality sucks, but it's all we got.

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                  Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Rad
                  
                  We are dealing with 99% spiritual unknowns. It's rich mysterious depths of this unconscious that the intuition of being, mystical contemplation, and the mysticism of the self all emerge, each in its distinctive way.
                  
                  We pioneering many efforts to open up the door to this interior universe, it still remains to be seen it high energy when we further explore it.

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                     adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Bravo...Castlepaloma...just what I was about to express. I have seen and experienced things Rad couldn't even Fathom, hence his position on the subject.
                     
                     I saw that girl when I was 12, and my parents still have the footage from church with her bound/suspended in mid air to the exterior wall 3feet from the ground for 6secs. Ain't nobody can tell me anything about spirituality.

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                        Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        This may give you guys a little insight of the unconscious mind.
                        
                        www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMLzP1VCANo
                        
                        adrainroc - you've also seen nothing that can't be explained without the assumption that it's spiritual.
                        
                        I'd love to see the video of the incident you are describing. I've ask for evidence from every person I've read making claims of miracles and super natural events and to date have received nothing. Perhaps you'll be different.
                        
                        Tell me, if I made the claim that I was abducted by aliens and spent two years living with them, would you believe me or would you ask for proof?

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                           Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           A lot of people are unaware on how to work their subconscious mind into their daily lives. Like that song -Row, Row, Row Your Boat.  Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is just a dream. 
                           
                           Spirituality is just as important as relationships, ones physical, mind, and emotional state. Unlike a Religion group, I would not claim all spirituality or claim to know more than 1% about spirituality. All I know it does work in ways unknown until it’s manifest in to our ego self or into our conscious mind  People who claim to know all about what God is become more evastive and elustive of the spiritual unknowns.

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                              Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Funny, I seem to be doing just fine without it. I don't seem to need to believe in fairy tales to enjoy life.

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                                 Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Your Talking about the bible again, which claim their tall tales to be all true.
                                 There are many metaphor lesson that can be learn from fairy tales also.
                                 
                                 It's about being open minded, just not to the point where your brains fall out.

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, the balance of both are needed for our well being.
      The conscious was the hunger for the right to know, much like a the religious right to know and claim to know God, then we devolopes into an over ego world rather than than a friendly world of kindness.  I alway consider the unreasonable part at first, until they are proven, then can be adapted and incorperated  to my positive experiences, never the other way round

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         adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         However they are not equal or balanced. They operate together like an alternating cyclic monopoly. One feeds, the other consumes, then again it feeds. Each changing its role periodically. Hence addiction, withdrawal, you overcome and may fall back into the same trap.

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            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            My post earlier said the subconscious is more powerful than the conscious. Without the conscious mind we would be part of someone else’s vegetable garden. All parts of our major organs bring us a better balance. Over focus on anything for too long, brings one to an addiction.
            
            Not ashamed to be addicted to love, coming from the subconscious to all of you. Maybe because there is never enough love in the world

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               adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Good point my friend. Absolutely right!

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   If you are speaking of this in a psychoanalytical sense you really should call it the unconscious.  That is the correct term.

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      adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Please don't say it is the proper term, it is NOT. There is no basis for such.
      "Psychoanalytical sense"  and THE UNCONSCIOUS usage is not universally agreed upon on. It has been an ongoing debate even at Harvard, Yale and scientific communities for years now.
      
      “Unconscious mind” is most closely associated with Freud and his psychoanalysis theories. But the general notion "subconscious" predates Freud "unconscious" by hundreds if not thousands of years.
      
      The word “subconscious,” Freud used it interchangeably when talking about the psychoanalytical sense with “unconscious” . It was not definite
      
      So you tell me...which is right?

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, Most psychiatrists and other professionals in the field of psychology prefer the term unconscious to subconscious
      
      Subconscious and unconscious are synonyms when used as adjectives meaning occurring in the absence of awareness or thought. The subconscious works all the time, as opposed to the unconscious, which is only at play when you are not conscious at all--when you're a deepest sleep, sedated, in a coma, whatever. There is transference of thoughts from the unconscious to the conscious mind in memory, but not while you are unconscious. They are two  different mental "places" and operations yet at work all the same.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   Professionals tend to use 'unconscious', science dictionaries indicate as much. Freud used 'unconscious' exclusively. So if you mean to speak within the psychoanalytical framework, *which I specified*...it's a bit of a Shibboleth for those who have read their primary sources.  Do as you wish I am just trying to let you know.

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Was the more popular term 'subconscious' is not a Freudian coinage or slip.
      
      The World being 99% unknown and the brain being mostly unknown allow me my subconscious imagination to go to work and work harder, wail my parts of my unconiouse are deep asleep or rest.
      After all, I dream for a living

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      adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I hope you are not angered by my response.I must be careful as I am still seeking answers for my film, therefore I cannot just readily accept all that is expressed.
      
      Please if you may, elaborate on the subconscious vs the unconscious.

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      adrianrocposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Some neuroscientists find the concept of an unconscious to be a problem, because the terminology implies that the unconscious is a place, a true anatomical location, as it were, in the brain. Freud, as a neurologist, did think in terms of neurobiology. But he didn’t have twenty-first century tools to help him analyze the structure, function and complex interactions among nerve cells, neural circuits, or brain regions.
      
      Today, most psychoanalysts and psychodynamically-oriented therapists do not think of the unconscious as a neuroanatomical structure. Rather, they use the term as shorthand to refer to a complex, but familiar, psychological phenomenon. That is, a good deal and perhaps most of mental life happens without our knowing much about it. Neuroscientists are clued into these processes too. So they appreciate that any understanding of the neurobiology of mental life must go beyond conscious thoughts and feelings.

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Like chocolate and ice cream, they both work for me as a treat

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