unforgivable sin

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   janesixposted 11 years ago

   "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”
   
   what does this mean?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Since we know that God is merciful,  forgiving, Loving, and wants everyone to be saved,  then the only thing I can tell (and that I've heard other Christians say) is that that particular act of blasphemy must come deliberately from a person who has hardened their heart so much that they don't even want forgiveness.    It isn't a case of God not being able to forgive;  it's a case where someone knows the score,  knows that the Holy Spirit is the part of the Godhead which convinces people of their sins,  knows God is divine and Jesus is also the Son of God (not just the Son of man),  and they still reject Him permanently.
      That's how I see it.
      
      I dunno what the specific words are that's being referred to as far as speaking against the Holy Ghost (or if there really are any specific words)  but I believe God would still take into account the state of one's heart,  no matter what words they spoke.   He knows everyone's heart.......

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         janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I hope so and it seems like you're right, because it makes sense. I have said things out of ignorance, but nothing AGAINST the Holy Ghost. I just didn't know what I was talking about. i think I need to do my best to make things right now as much as I can.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Tell me more, if you want. 
            What does it mean to you?   Have you now given your heart to only the Lord?
            I noticed you posted that Scripture in the other thread about Jesus being the only Way.
            So cool!

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               janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I don't have any doubts about Jesus, I never have sinse I realized he was real sometime in October I think. But I had already been decieved by kundalini power two years before that,and didn't realize what it was till last night. It is so deceptive, but I think it HAS TO reveal itself before it can take your soul.
               
               Jes, Jesus IS the only way.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Amen and hallelujah! 

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                     janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Amen:)

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            bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Janesix, you have hit on a very important point many don't understand.  Jesus did indeed die for the sins of all people, so the only reason a person is not saved is because they refuse the calling of the Holy Spirit.  The word interpreted "speak" is "epo", which means to speak or say, but also means to answer. 
            
            God will not force anyone to accept the salvation Jesus has made available, but the only reason they don't get it is their rejecting the offer.  People do this by denying the spiritual world, denying God, denying their sinful condition and need of salvation, so as the bible says, they have no excuse.  This is indeed the unforgiveable sin, because in denying their need for forgiveness, they reject it.

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               janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I definitely want to be forgiven

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  1John 1: 9:
                  
                  
                  "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
                  
                  
                  I'm trying to figure out if you just got born again,  or if you already were and are just growing in wisdom.    No matter which,  if either is true,  then welcome to the strait narrow road.    Watch out for the wolves hangin' around on the sidelines!        But indeed I saw in another thread that you already have some skill in dealing with that kind of thing.   

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                     janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Thank you Brenda:)

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                        Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank the Lord.   We are only His messengers.  It's His Spirit that convicts men of sin and leads them to Truth.
                        
                        John 16:7-15
                        
                        King James Version (KJV)
                        
                        "7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
                        
                        8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
                        
                        9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
                        
                        10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
                        
                        11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
                        
                        12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
                        
                        13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
                        
                        14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
                        
                        15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

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                  bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Janesix,  I have seen, at least as far as what has been evident in the forums, your search for truth.  I applaud your tenacity.  It appears you may have come to some realizations and I don't want to muddy the waters.  Knowing you are a sinner in need of forgiveness, that Jesus has procured and offers it, and accepting that, is really what matters.  Once that has truly been done, you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, without which the Bible largely is misunderstood.  Still there is much deception and misinformation, so discernment is paramount. 
                  
                  Satan has one goal for non-believers...fool them any way he can.  Much of his menu of deception is under the heading of "Christianity."  Once saved, Satan can do nothing regarding your salvation, but does seek to silence and confuse you, lest you persuade others.  So discernment is in order moving forward, either way.  Considering the influences that have persuaded you so far, I would highly recommend any books by Dave Hunt, as he has written extensively about false teachings and discernment.  You will find his books on Amazon, or www.TheBereanCall.org website.  In fact I think the website has archives of radio programs by topic you may find interesting. 
                  
                  If you have specific questions you prefer not to have addressed in the public domain feel free to email me and I will attempt to help.  Starting out as a Christian, there are still so many questions.  The bible describes the milk and the meat of the word.  Most believers, at least most I come in contact with, never get into the meat...and that is okay.  You seem quite inquisitive though, and I suspect you will always seek more info and want to grow in the word.

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                     janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I thought that the Holy Spirit had indwelt in me, but with all the kundalini stuff, I don't know what was what now. I'm assuming that the Holy Spirit wouldn't be a physical sensation, what do you think? how do I tell the difference?

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                        riddle666posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        By taking this thing - Olanzapine (Zyprexa).

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                           Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           
                           What're you doing now----trying to be a doctor?  Or a drug pusher?

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                              riddle666posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              You too can try, its good for delusion too (in addition to hallucinations), but better consult a doctor for one, I got it from Wikipedia and second I don't know whether it will work for congenital delusions/indoctrination.

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                        Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        If bBerean sees this,  I'm sure he will have some good answers and advice.
                        
                        What I can tell you is that the Holy Spirit indwelling will be a thing of knowledge accompanied by emotion also.   God has emotions.  He loves,  He feels sadness and anger and compassion and revulsion at sin, etc.;  He feels joy, etc.    He has emotions like we do.   Or I should say----we were created with the same emotions that He has!
                        Those emotions often do have physical manifestations;  so, yes, it can be a physical manifestation in some ways!  we cry, laugh, tremble, feel good or bad, etc., speak in response to those emotions.    I've seen Christians become almost overcome with emotion and rejoicing that they almost collapse physically;  I've been there myself, and I've seen people who really do collapse.   But it's an individual thing as far as how we let those emotions show.   Some people may never be very elaborate in their show of emotions;  but there will still be evidence of their Faith whether it's simply a smile in response to a Bible verse etc............. And it won't be totally emotional either, though.    Once we're born again,  we have a peaceful knowledge of that which doesn't always require an outer show of emotion;  we're simply secure in the knowledge that we're children of His.   
                        
                        Remember this--------whatever idea you're presented with or whatever you hear or read or see even with your own eyes-------go to the Bible to test the spirit of it and go to the Lord in prayer to test it.   Whatever is of God will lend itself to confirmation from the Word of God,  both "words"-----the Holy Bible which is His written word, and Jesus/Holy Spirit who is His Word in the flesh.

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      kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is expected that every man would for a while walk in darkness.
      While in his darkness, he cannot help but see another exactly as he perceive himself to be.
      So while in this stage, one may speak against the son of man, for after all, to him  the son of man is merely another man (outwardly) just as himself.
      
      When it comes to the Holy Spirit, it is the spirit of Life within the the person.
      Spirit of Life because, it would speak the word of Life so that the person perceive himself as he Truly is, which is LIFE.
      To speak against the Spirit of Life which emanates from you the person, would me you will contradict every word that would speak unto you the freedom of Life.
      Now without the word of Life you would be stuck in a cycle of self condemnation, and because it is your word against you and  your word would always stand.
      
      So it matters not how many death you cycle through the ages, as long as you have nit found it within you to justify yourself before the Father, you will be condemned.
      
      So you will blaspheme against the Holy Spirit because you have denied the Truth about your ownself.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         If you're gonna interpret verses in the Holy Scriptures,  you should use Holy Scripture to do so.    Your interpretation is off.   Give us Chapter and verse please,  if you can.   But indeed you cannot, because it's not in there.    There is no justification without Jesus.    You've conveniently left Him out,  as is always your habit.  Surely you are aware of that.

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            kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Knowing Christ does not mean reading and regurgitation a book, paying heed to keeping in line with another man thinks.
            
            It means understanding the spirit of life that is already within you and with that it makes the man and a book unnecessary.
            
            If you understand this , you would not need the book nor cling to it alone, for this knowledge has been written long before the Christ man came in his time.
            
            In fact the Spirit of Life is where ever there is a man...but if that man does not understand this, what else is there except to follow spirit of darkness which leads every other way? .
            
            So I am telling you that Christianity is built by those who knew of the man but never understood his spirit, and this is why the book is absolutely necessary to them because without it they are nothing.
            
            Are you able to deny the book Brenda?
            You know you are nothing without it.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I am nothing without Christ.
               The Book is important, yes,  because it is His written word.   But the Book isn't literally Him.
               
               Of course I will NOT deny either Him nor the Book.   
               Shucks.........you've denied it and look where that got you!-----you're trying to say humans are God.    You deny Christ Himself, do you not?     When will the time come that you realize you are human and not divine?    On your deathbed?

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         janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I honestly don't get what you're saying. The only truth I know about myself is that I made a huge mistake,and now intend to correct it if possible.
         
         And that is through the help of Jesus

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            kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You mistake is thinking that it is possible to make mistakes.
            
            Now the level of your desperation can be seen in the gravity of the mistake that you think you have made. So you are just as the drowning man in his desperation will catch unto a straw.
            
            Forgetting that Life is always where it has always been...but  it diificult to see it with desperate eyes.
            
            Maybe this is another  necessary phase in your development , but you will still end at the point when you will only the trust the Spirit of Life which can be found only in you.

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   BigJulesMagsposted 11 years ago

   I'd like to dig into that in Hebrew.  Very possibly this could be a translation thing.  It probably was a lot more simple in that frame.

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      BigJulesMagsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The Hebrew word that parallels the Greek for blasphemy is ne’asa. It signifies the action or attitude where the former recipient of favorable disposition and/or service is consciously viewed and/or treated with disdain. Consider the following synonymous parallels: mārâ “to rebel against authority” (Ps 107:11); ˒ābâ “to be unwilling and disinclined toward obedience” (Prov 1:30); śānē˒ “to hate” (Prov 5:12), not believing in the Lord (Num 14:1), to forsake God (˓āzab, Isa 1:4), mā˒as “to reject,” Isa 5:24, ḥārap “to say sharp things, reproach, scorn” (Ps 74:10).

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      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I found a bit more of an explanation that has more info in it.   Several explanations, actually.   I like Gill's exposition,  as well as the others.  They seem to refer to the Greek definitions of some words, and they've  expounded upon some of this.
      When I can't seem to find the right words to explain some Scriptures,  I go to some of the places where several well-known apologists have given their thoughts.    I love the Blue Letter Bible site as well as this one here (so far, anyway;  lol;  'cause I question everything I read even if it's by a well-known Christian author)........-----------
      
      
      http://biblehub.com/matthew/12-32.htm
      
      
      
      Edit-------oh hey I see from your post above that you already have some info on this.  Cool stuff.

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