Evidence of Spirit

1. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   Who has it?

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      Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Me. There's half a bottle of Schmirnof in my kitchen waiting for me.

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      1. 84

         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Me. My cat, named Spirit, is on my lap.

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2. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   My cat, however is a better example of having spirit than a bottle of spirits. And if I take a couple gulps of spirits, I loose mine.

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3. 59

   FatFreddysCatposted 11 years ago

   I have it! I've got several issues of this series in my old comic book collection:
   
   

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   1. 84

      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I hope I can find a copy! (The blond's body language says it all ... and Spirit says, "Not now, I haven't rescued you YET..."

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4. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   Here is evidence of Spirit : Consciousness + Love + Intelligence.

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      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Those three things when present are only evidence of a properly functioning human brain.

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      1. 84

         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         This discussion is really about the science of consciousness, I have come to understand.

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         1. 76

            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            random thoughts...
            
            men have the attributes of consciousness, love and intelligence.
            
            neither gods nor God has free will; any god worthy of the name is omniscient by definition.  Knowing everything, they also know the proper and best method to accomplish anything at all.  Knowing that, there is precious little free will left; only a mentally deficient being will intentionally use an inferior method of doing something. 
            
            As neither gods nor God actually exist they cannot truly said to be "related".  Any relation is only perceived by humanity, just as the gods/God is.
            
            Or so my sources tell me...

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            1. 84

               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               - how about the random thought of energy.
               - where does energy fit into all this?
               - are spirit and energy related.

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               1. 76

                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  A random thought of energy has nothing to do with anything.
                  
                  If you mean the energy of thought, that is the same as any other electrical activity.  In the brain it is very, very small, though it takes a huge portion of the chemical energy we all exist on.

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                  1. 84

                     Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Spirit, energy, free will and consciousness are all intrinsically intertwined. Spirit is often interchanged with *enthusiasm.* (Indeed, Wikipedia uses energy as a defining word for enthusiasm.)
                     Therefore, it would appear that energy does have something to do with spirit.

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                     1. 76

                        wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Ah.  You refer to a state of emotional being with the term "energy", not something that actually exists in the real world.  "Free will" is another concept that exists only inside the mind and is not "real", either - perhaps they are indeed intertwined in some kind of mental orgy with consciousness.
                        
                        In that case, it could very well have something to do with spirit, as the spirit would appear to reside or at least have a strong connection with the emotions of a human being.  Could "spirit" merely be one's perception of self, and not some physical manifestation in this or other "dimension"?

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                        1. 84

                           Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           ...then what is causing everything outside of ourselves to manifest?
                           - and yes, a mental, physical, and emotional orgy with consciousness and freewill intertwining is indeed what we're talking about. Very astute finding.

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                  2. 61

                     Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I wish I were as smart as a lightning bolt.  lol

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                        A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I think you are that smart.

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                           Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Do you own a TV?

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                           1. 60

                              bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Beth, you may have broken someone's rhythm.  Your a mom. When your kids are keeping themselves entertained peacefully, do you interrupt?

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                                 Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 He does seem to be keeping time.

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               2. 59

                  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  They are related like fairies and trees.

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   2. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's like saying beer, pretzels and sushi are evidence of the Loch Ness monster.

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5. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   The Big Bang was evidence of spirit/energy.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      How so?  Outside of an unsupported claim that a spirit was necessary to touch it off, how do you claim it is evidence of spirit?

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jupiter and Mars are evidence of Superman.

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6. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   - is electricity the same as light?
   - or not.
   - light from the sun is not the same as nerve light is it?
   - what is nerve light? can it be considered electricity?
   - what is E= MC squared?
   - what starts a fire without a match... friction?
   - is heat energy?
   - Is heat evidence of spirit/energy?
   - is electricity evidence of spirit/energy?
   This discussion has led to the topic of  *evidence vs. direct manifestation,*  it seems.

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   1. 76

      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Electricity is not the same as light.  One is movement of electrons, one is photons.
      
      Nerves do not produce light at all - sunlight is not nerve light.
      
      Energy = mass X speed of light squared.
      
      Friction, concentrated sunlight, lightning, other electrical discharges and probably some isolated chemical reactions that might get hot enough to ignite and burn specific substances.  Volcanoes will light fires, as will any other very hot mass.  It is possible to start a fire with radiation, or other nuclear reactions.
      
      Heat, the motion of molecules, is a form of kinetic energy.
      
      heat is not evidence of spirit unless spirit is material matter.
      
      electricity is not evidence of spirit unless spirit contains electrons that are released to travel a conductor.

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Seems more like a discussion leading to the topic of how many things can one imagine are real when one doesn't take their meds.

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7. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   feelings are evidence of ...
   intelligence is evidence of...
   awareness is evidence of...
   volition is evidence of...
                                                              what?
   
   self? consciousness? soul? all of which require energy or electricity or some animating force. What is the force? Is it wrong to call it spirit? Is it wrong to call it energy?
   It is certainly not right to call it "perceptions."  Who's to say that spirit is not material matter and does not contain electrons... I mean I have no idea. But we are discussing *evidence.* 
       If there is no evidence of an animating force then nothing really exists. It is all a figment of our individual imaginations. And in that case there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever.
   Never mind.
   I'm sure the advertisers were not holding their breaths, here, anyway.

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   1. 84

      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Apparently Nothing is very important. 
      and Something is not very important.
      So, to some, negativity is important
      and positivity is not.
      I get the consciousness of that.

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8. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   Redwood forests and gigantic redwood trees are evidence of Spirit.

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9. 84

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   Evolution
       as guided by nature,
                all creatures
                         and mankind itself
                                                ...is evidence of Spirit.

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10. 84

    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

    Music is evidence of Spirit.

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11. 84

    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

    Human Creativity is evidence of Spirit

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12. 76

    wildernessposted 11 years ago

    Seems that everything in the universe is evidence of spirit.  Conclusion: "spirit" is another word for "universe", at least as you have defined it.
    
    True?

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    1. 84

       Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       …I would agree with that… everything in the universe positively exists. Something did not come out of Nothing. Right?
       Wondering

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          Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Nobody says the universe came from nothing, but things do pop in and out of detection.

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          1. 84

             Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             DETECTION:
                  This word isolates the true difficulty when discussing the existence of God.
             Therefore, I'm focusing on physical manifestations which provide evidence of spirit.

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                Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Physical manifestations provide evidence for physical manifestations.

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                1. 84

                   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Why argue about the matter? I think you are loosing.

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          2. 84

             Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             What do you mean by this, Rad Man:  "...things do pop in and out of detection."
             ????

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                Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                sub-atomic particles.
                
                http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … ticles-rea

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                1. 84

                   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   - sub atomic particles are evidence of Spirit.

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                      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Sub-atomic particles are evidence of pizza.

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       2. 76

          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          "something" does indeed come from "nothing" in some cases.  Whether that happened with the universe we cannot know.
          
          But the conclusion and the "Right?" was that "spirit" means "universe", it just has a different spelling and pronunciation.  Kind of like "human" and "homo sapien".

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          1. 84

             Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             No. Everything manifests out of something very subtle…to the point of being invisible… or a least not detectible by man-made instruments…or  mathematical formulas, LOL!

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             1. 76

                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                And with that comes the old, old question - your evidence, Ma'am?
                
                When you begin talking about something you know to be there but that you are defining as undetectable to man or machine, well, you have a wee problem with the truth of your claim.

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                1. 84

                   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   So Redwood trees are not evidence of an animating spirit which is causing the trees to grow to be a certain height, of a certain style, of a certain majesty among all trees? I have heard that trees pump sap and have a circulatory system. The animating force figured out that trees needed hearts.  Furthermore, how do we know that trees do not love with these hearts? There is no proof to claim otherwise. (Maybe this is why some people hug trees!)
                   Half Joking Half Serious

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                   1. 76

                      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Not unless your "animating spirit" consists of a trillion copies of a DNA strand, the composition of the earth in that forest, the geology that results in a daily heavy mist but little rain, the climate of the area, etc.
                      
                      If you wish to define spirit as the combination of all all those physical things that cause the Redwoods to grow as they do, then I guess it is there.  If not, then no, there is no evidence of an "animating spirit". 
                      
                      You might want to re-consider the question of the trees loving.  People do not love with hearts but with their brains and trees have no hearts anyway.  A "circulatory" system perhaps, but no heart - they cannot have a heart with no muscle tissue in the tree.  If you're going to make such a foolish claim at least make it with the stomach; that used to be considered the center of emotions, a tree "digests" "food" and perhaps could be considered to "feel" with it's "stomach".  All very loosely defined (VERY loosely )

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                      1. 84

                         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         Why yes, I would agree that:
                         
                                    E v e r y t h i n g  that contributes to life is evidence of Spirit!
                         
                         Thank you for enlightening us!

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                         1. 76

                            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Good!  Then we begin to have a definition, something we can hang our hat on, with the word "spirit". 
                            
                            Now we can view it, watch it and experiment with it.  Monsanto is, after all working with spirit (DNA) all the time - it is not all that difficult.  Heck, Mendel was looking at spirit over 100 years ago and understanding it - we can do MUCH better today! 
                            
                            And you were right all along - it is in each of us!  (not in empty space, though, and not in stars and maybe not in other planets).  It could, in fact, be ONLY on earth and nowhere else in the universe.

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                            1. 84

                               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               why? If the earth (and dirt) is evidence of spirit… then so is every other heavenly body!

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                               1. 76

                                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  Uh oh.  I think we may have a miscommunication.
                                  
                                  I said that "Not unless your "animating spirit" consists of a trillion copies of a DNA strand, the composition of the earth in that forest, the geology that results in a daily heavy mist but little rain, the climate of the area, etc."
                                  
                                  You apparently took that to mean that such things were evidence of spirit, not spirit itself.  But I meant what I said - it works only if "spirit" IS DNA.  And dirt and all the other stuff, but DNA especially as without the other stuff a Redwood will probably grow but without the right DNA it won't be a Redwood.
                                  
                                  Your "spirit" is a complex chemical, with atoms arranged in a double helix configuration.  Question, though - does "soul" = "spirit"?  Is soul just a complex chemical as well?

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                                  1. 84

                                     Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                     No I stand by what I said. DNA is not spirit…   It is evidence of an animating force. Scientists cannot define this mysterious invisible undetectable force. But is definitely the guiding force behind all Creation from the beginning of the universe and throughout all "time." That force I understand to be God.
                                     Musings of a Former Atheist

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                                     1. 76

                                        wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                        Oh shoot.  That puts us right back to that "Your evidence, Ma'am?" for some (force, chemical, what?) that is defined as undetectable by any means but that you know is there.
                                        
                                        And That Is The Way It Is

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                                        1. 84

                                           Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                           YEP! Evidence is as good as it gets... and isn't that good enough?

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                      2. 84

                         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         humans love center is in the heart… I was just wondering if trees also a have a sense of love, due to their "pump."

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                         1. 76

                            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Only if you think a small glass tube loves you, too.  They both "pump" with the same capillary action, after all.
                            
                            But whatever makes you think the center of human emotion is in the muscle of the heart?

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                            1. 84

                               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               Ya got me there! (referring to tube)
                               
                               Whatever makes me think that center of human emotion is the heart? I know because that is where emotions come from.. The stomach seems to have a mind of it own... why not the heart?

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                      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      The half serious part is what's confusing me.

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                      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Absurd, Kathryn.

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13. 84

    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

    Declaration of Independence of the United States of America is evidence of Spirit.

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14. 84

    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

    If there is no evidence of an Animating Force then Nothing exists.
    
    Yet Something exists:
    
    The Whole entire Universe and Everything in it!
    
    If animating force = spirit
                         then spirit = energy
    
    and evidence of spirit proves consciousness and everything that goes with consciousness...
    which is a lot.
    and "a lot" is a severe understatement.
    U No I'm Rite

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       A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Hence, you would be wrong about an animating force.

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          ? ...only if nothing exists.

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             A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             That would be wrong, too, evidently by the fact our universe does exist.

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             1. 84

                Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I say everything that exists is proof of an animating spirit. What is there to not understand?
                Honestly, you would think the atheists would agree! *Animating sprit* is more  realistic and scientifically provable than a "supernatural creature from another universe!"

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                1. 59

                   A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Simple, no such animating force has ever been shown to exist, it is only the physical laws of the universe that have been shown to cause everything. What is there not to understand.
                   
                   
                   
                   That is pure baloney, no such animating spirit has ever been shown to exist, that is merely your religious beliefs talking.

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15. 84

    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

    Science is evidence of Spirit

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       A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Truly hilarious, Kathryn.
       
       There is as much evidence for spirit as there is for leprechauns and unicorns; zero.
       
       However, you have chosen to believe in something that has no evidence because of your religious beliefs.

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16. 84

    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

    Is Evidence of Spirit Enough?? Yes ? no?
    I think the answer is no.
    We are not satisfied with evidence. We just aren't. Actually this craving comes from somehow knowing that God exists. Until we sense this force directly we will never be content.
    Back to ESP.
    Back to Yoga.
    Back to Meditation.
    back to Jesus and Krishna who both made very clear:
    "The harvest is abundant…"
    "Heaven is (found) within."
    According to My Sources.
    (But now we are way off topic.)
    Back to Evidence…
    
    The moon is evidence of spirit… Although some say it was man-made and that it is hollow inside! LOL

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    1. 76

       wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Speak for yourself.  For many of us "left brained" critters, evidence is sufficient for knowledge (not sure what else would be).
       
       In this specific case, zero evidence results in zero knowledge and, for the left brained, zero belief.
       
       For the right brained, though, it can and does result in belief.  This comes about because of the craving you mention: "I want it very badly, so it must be so".  "And if it's not, I will believe anyway because I want to".  It works very well for the right brained and is all that is necessary to produce a massive belief system.

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       1. 84

          Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          This keyboarding is evidence of a left brained atheist, for sure!  But, also evidence of a very fine animating spirit if there ever was!

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             wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             

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          Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          How does one explain a left brained believer?

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          1. 84

             Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             A left brain believer believes that God can be found in a mathematical formula, obviously. A left brain non-believer doesn't think so, even though he is left brained.

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             wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Such an anomaly would simply shut off the brain when the spirit arises in them.  Don't think about it in other words.

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                Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Interesting.  Not accurate, but interesting. 

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                1. 76

                   wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Well, how else would a person that requires hard evidence come to believe in something that by definition can have no evidence?

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                      Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Not all evidence is acceptable to all people.  And what may seem like hard evidence of one thing may point to something else entirely.  Happens all the time in courtrooms all around the world.  People are convicted an acquitted because an evidentiary exposition leads to no other conclusion than the one at which they arrive.  And then the real story comes out...because no one wanted ALL the evidence, just what they felt was sufficient to prove THEIR case.

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                         A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         The thing is that courtroom evidence is not the same thing as evidence required for science.
                         
                         Of course, if Kathryn stood in a courtroom talking as she does here, they would cart her off for psychological evaluation.

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                      2. 76

                         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         That's kind of the point - evidence sometimes seems to point to one thing when another is actually true - except that there is zero evidence for a god out there.  Evidence, not opinion - millions have an opinion without evidence to back it.
                         
                         So that goes back to what I said - left brained people want evidence.  Not opinion, not imagination, not rationalization or lies. Just hard, provable evidence available to anyone, and the very definitions used by most religious people today preclude anything like that. 
                         
                         Without evidence, then, the left brained person is left requiring that their brain shut down and utilize the emotional, wanting side of themselves.  Which is what I said, after all.

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             2. 84

                Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Soft evidence is better.

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    Beth37posted 11 years ago

    Im going to separate you two. I don't even know what you're saying, but it's getting on my nerves.

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    1. 84

       Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       You do eventually start to "hear" the person's voice don't you? Sorry about that Beth. Stop reading, then!  You just can't help yourself can you? Because evidence is not enough, even for the God-believing Christian.

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          Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I haven't been reading... Ive been a bad girl. I just keep clicking on the notification when it pops up and then I'm like, "doh!" Why can't I stop clicking on it? lol

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             Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             likely story. Where is your proof of God beyond Bible… beyond evidence of Spirit?

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             Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             - appearing notifications are evidence of Spirit .
             Clicking on them halfheartedly is evidence of a limited amount of spirit.

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                Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                hahaha... I do believe that's the first joke Ive ever heard you make... it was a good one too.

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                   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   - well, thats better than thinking everything I say is a joke! (Which some absolutely do!)
                   Thanks, Beth. I think "everyone" gets what I'm saying here. I will stop.
                   Finis.
                   

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