Collapsing the Barriers

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   jonnycomelatelyposted 9 years ago

   Folks, I have just been sent a URL that cuts right across any argument about whether there is a "God" or not, this little video speaks of human need and human response in love.  PLEASE watch it right through.
   
   https://www.upworthy.com/youll-be-amaze … ers?c=upw1

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      Brenda Durhamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Okay.....so.....it was hard for me to watch that video because my own Mom had Alzheimers.......
      But I watched it.     So sad.   But so good to see the connection made there!   There were some good times similar to that with my Mom too! 
      So, I must ask exactly what you mean by it "cuts right across the argument about whether there's a God or not".......?

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         jonnycomelatelyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Brenda.
         
         I was meaning that, although I don't accept the christianity and teachings, I can still fully accept and allow for that lady's needs, her feelings, her background, which are obviously rooted in her christian faith.  These things mean a lot to her at this time, they connect with her deeper self, they are also part of the very real "therapy" being offered to her. 
         
         Thus I feel there are times when we, as people with an atheist understanding, need to allow the opposite understanding, without question.  To just, simply allow, let the pure love come through however it presents.  To me that is more important than anything else, and it "cuts right across..."

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      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Jonny, that was hard for me to watch as my Father in-law is going down the same path, he at the stage when he can't remember his grand kids names. Painful. But he makes his way to church every day and I wouldn't take that away from him.

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      Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny  ...      Thank you ....   I needed this.
      
      
      
      Beth37  .... With all due respect ...  It only asked if you thought ......a person should be able to make their own decisions concerning their own life?             Yes or no.     i don't support abortion .....  but  I do support any person TO Have the ability to make their own choices and then live with the consequences regardless of the issues involved. 
           I do know that I don't want to have to live with the consequences of someone else's decisions concerning me,  ... especially if I don't agree with them.
           I do have faith that God will be able to sort it all out, without my interference.
           
           Anyway, that is a would different issue.   The sentiments of OP and link was something else entirely.

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         Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         It asked me if I thought a woman should be allowed to make her own decisions concerning reproduction, which I believe, obviously, affects more than just her, it affects the baby and every one who might love the baby. The second time it did not ask me that. I was able to watch the video and enjoyed it very much.

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            Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            i must have seen what you later saw.   And i din't mean any disrespect in my post.
            The abortion issue is however off topic ....   And the link showed a beautiful moment in a a persons life.

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               Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

               It was a beautiful video and I was able to watch it.

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                  Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  What is important was seen at its most basic level don't ya think?

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                     Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Hmmm... not sure... what I think was most important was that the lady lost inside herself was brought out of the cage of her own mind by a kind and loving soul that was willing to reach out to her in ways she remembered from her youth. Beautiful.

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                        Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        I saw so many things simultaneously that I really don't know how to adequately express one  ....
                        It also said a lot about the kind lady reaching out.   Love at the basic level (I think)

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                           Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Compassion. Empathy. Yes, it's basic love.

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                              Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              These things are simple until we attempt to explain then, understand them, and make exceptions to/for them.    i love my life if I could only keep it simple.     And if I love it when it is simple.
                              
                              It's been a long hard day and my bubble bath is calling my name, and it is simply  hot and ready.   
                              Back shortly.

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                                 Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 

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                           jonnycomelatelyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Thank you. That's it in a nutshell!
                           
                           I am in awe of the discussion here.  Brenda was in touch with her Mom.  Rad Man was in touch with his Father in Law..... Beth was in touch with Rad Man.... Others were in touch with themselves, as the argument got a little heated....
                           
                           It's this willingness to go in there, stand your ground yet look inside of our selves, explore new information, new ways of viewing opinions, new understandings, going through with the argument, that can bring about personal change. 
                           
                           I don't go that way.  I tend to be middle-ground, not seeking confrontation.  A bit timid really.  So to watch you people going through it is refreshing.  I am sure it helps each of you to just encounter and consider different points of view, as uncomfortable as it may be at times.

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                              Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              It's this willingness to go in there, stand your ground yet look inside of our selves, explore new information, new ways of viewing opinions, new understandings, going through with the argument, that can bring about personal change. 
                              I don't go that way.  I tend to be middle-ground, not seeking confrontation.  A bit timid really.  So to watch you people going through it is refreshing.  I am sure it helps each of you to just encounter and consider different points of view, as uncomfortable as it may be at times.
                              ==============
                              It seems to me that many people are willing to "go in there and stand our ground";  but few are willing to explore any "NEW" information in new ways of to view opinions of others.  Often times when we do see and agree with the validity of  "THE OTHER" opinion, we take a nap (or something) and our memory of that moment of agreement is gone. That is how we subconsciously defend our position.
                                  If everyone could only admit to ourselves that our OUR position isn't as solid as we wish they were.
                                 I think centrifugal force causes "The Right" answers to gravitate toward the middle ground.
                                 Can the middle ground in fact be the "HIGH" ground

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   Beth37posted 9 years ago

   Wow.
   I am at the library and I can't watch the video, but I am blown away by the kindness in the non-believer's (for lack of a better title) response. Thank you for those. I found them to be beautiful.

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      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Wow, that's like saying you are blown away by the compassion that Jews have as you didn't think they had it in them.

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         Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I don't know what the Jews have to do with it... odd choice. But I hadn't seen that kind of compassion from you before and it was lovely to me. Im sorry if that offended, it wasn't meant to.

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            Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            We are all humans capable of the same compassion. The fact that that surprises you concerns me.

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               Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

               We should be, but some are not. Surely you have met some in your life with less compassion than others?

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                  Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, and you pointed out that you are surprised to find unbelievers with compassion.

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                     Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     I was indeed surprised to see your post. Im not sure surprised was my same reaction to Jonny's but I did enjoy the kindness in it... in both of them.

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                        Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        So you are surprised that those of another faith or lack of faith have compassion. That's messed up. As you don't seem to have compassion for those who you are surprised that they showed compassion. You don't seem to have a problem telling me that you are surprised that I can be compassionate. This is you showing no compassion and not commenting of the video presented by Jonny.

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                           Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, you are right... I am saying I have not felt in the past that you were very compassionate towards those who believe differently than you.

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                              Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              That is not what you said. You didn't say me personally, you said non-believers.
                              
                              "but I am blown away by the kindness in the non-believer's"
                              
                              You can at the very least be honest.

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                                 Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yeah... I meant you and Jonny cause you were the only non believers who had posted.. did I miss another non believer? Jonny has seemed as if he was willing to consider others feelings, I have noticed, in the past. I am now regretting saying that your reaction was lovely to me. As most of the times I converse with you and a couple of others, I realize it was a mistake. I apologize.

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                                    Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    There you go. Insult someone based on there beliefs and when you are called on it insult them again. Still not showing any compassion.

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                                       Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       ok then.
                                       But to be fair, I didn't say I thought you lacked compassion based on your belief... I thought you lacked compassion in the past based on your posts... maybe I was mistaken. Sorry.

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                                          Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                          I have compassion for you right now as you try to spin the fact that you said you were surprised that non-believers had compassion and are now trying to make that personal. You did in fact say you thought I lacked compassion based on my lack of belief.
                                          
                                          Now are you going to watch the video and show compassion?

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                                             Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                             You are so cray cray. How do you turn every thing into a personal argument? There is a saying in the Bible about being "too easily offended." I believe you might fall under this catagory at the moment.
                                             
                                             I was actually spinning, if you could call it that, at the beginning when I said that I had not seen compassion like this from this group before. I had not thought as to point my finger at you, but you kept after me and the more I thought about it, the more I thought "you're kind of right" in the sense that what I actually was probably saying was, I had not seen this kind of compassion from you before, lent to Christians, however, you are definitely making me rethink that statement. I am happy to watch the video. I was at the library, I had no earphones there... I couldn't watch it. I was the one who told you that. I was not in any way hiding it.

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                                                Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                Beth, if you had made that comment to me personally and not to non-believers I would have not even replied. We are all human and to suggest Atheists have no compassion is to suggest Christians have no compassion. I know you meant well.

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                                                   Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Well if you know what I mean better than I do, then I should once again cease from talking to you as you can read my mind. You are lucky in the fact that you have no need to grow in understanding of others... you are already there my friend!

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                                                      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                      I'm only trying to help (compassion) you in the future so that you don't make more terrible stereotypes of other based on there believes or lack there of.

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                                                         Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                         lol. Radman... LISTEN TO ME... I was not including other non believers... I was talking about you. I had not meant it to be so incredibly pointed, truly I didn't, but you are baiting, baiting, baiting me... so Im giving in to your demands. I MEANT YOU! I had not seen you so compassionate before, it was lovely at the time, much less so now... you could have said "thank you" or even ignored me, but it is this now. Yuck. Poor Jonny who just wanted to post a lovely thread. Im sorry Jonny, please accept my apologies.

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                                                            Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                            Still haven't commented on Jonny's video? Perhaps from here on in you will choose your words better and my work here will be done.
                                                            
                                                            As for the woman and my father in law, I would not take there religion away as I would not take yours. Are you going to show me the same compassion?

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                                                               Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                               Read above Radman. What kind of compassion would you like me to show you? I hurt you when I said I had not seen much compassion from you for Christians in the past. Maybe you disagree with this? Im sorry. Maybe I misread you?

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                                                                  Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                                  You still think you hurt me after all that?

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                                                                     Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                                     Im not sure, you act as if you've been wounded. If so, I do apologize... actually I have apologized for any offense many times now.

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                                                Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                Very interesting that you would mention this from the bible

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                              Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Perhaps you should speak for yourself. I have seen Rad Man show a lot of compassion here on the forums.

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                                 Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 I did speak for myself.

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                                    Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Okay.. Just making sure, my friend

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      A Troubled Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      That is because your religion teaches you that non-believers are evil and couldn't possibly have any compassion. Yet, your religion doesn't teach compassion (Christ did), but compassion has evolved in every human, hence we all have it. The difference is whether or not one allows their religious beliefs to override their compassion or not.

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         Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Lol... you and radman do like to twist a lot.
         I specifically said that I had not seen radman show that kind of compassion to believers before, but it really doesn't matter. Twist away. I hope you have a good day all the same.

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            A Troubled Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            That is because Rad Man shows compassion towards people and not towards the dogma of religions, huge difference. The problem is that folks like yourself align themselves with the dogma of religions as if it is part of your arms and legs, part of you. But, it isn't part of you, it is just another failed ideology, one that you need to let go and stop following because it does nothing but make life miserable for you.

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               Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Nailed it again. She didn't see the compassion I expressed to Chris when he lost his wife or the compassion expression to Melissa when I learned she lost a child, but she saw it here because it was connected with someones Christianity.

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         jonnycomelatelyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Can you live with that difference?  Or do you feel it must always be ironed out?

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            Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I hope that we do not think every thing he says is true any more than the rest of us. Just b/c it comes out of his mouth, doesn't give it weight. I wholly disagree with his post, but I seldom feel the need to defend. Some things simply don't have credence. This one one of them in my opinion.

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               A Troubled Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Of course, you don't believe anything we say is true, because you have yet to learn how to think about what we say. You simply compare it to Christianity and if it agrees, you agree, if it doesn't agree, you don't agree.
               
               
               
               Exactly.

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            A Troubled Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            It causes a tremendous amount of conflict in the world, why should we have to live with that?

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               jonnycomelatelyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               ATM, I agree that differences can and do cause conflict, if that is answering your question.
               
               But is it the difference that causes the conflict, or the way we deal with the difference?  What inspired me to start this little discussion was where I saw, and heard, a very caring person applying her knowledge, skills and love to a person who was in need of care.
               
               I have a background, in my early years, of being fully involved with the church and "churchiness."  I knew and sang all those hymns that talked of "Jesus and his love for little children," us grownup children as well, we were told!  I lived that life.  I see it now as simply repeating nonsense lines which had so little bearing on reality, for me.  It has been appropriate for my life to move away from that.  My choices all the way along the line.
               
               Yet, when I see that same comfort-generating religion having a place in the life of someone else, I can see/feel the need, and warm to their need -- and decide to live with my "un-belief,"  because it matters to them, if not to me.
               
               So, maybe the way to cancel out that conflict is to deal with the differences a bit more compassionately.   I say only maybe..... what do you think?

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                  A Troubled Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  It's much more than just differences.
                  
                  
                  
                  No, there is no dealing with folks who follow Christianity, as can easily be seen right here on these forums. They will simply fight and will admit to fighting for their cause. If they kept their religion behind closed doors where it belongs, we wouldn't have near as many problems in the world.

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                     Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Odd.. Here I was thinking that you dealt with me pretty well.. Or is this one instance where you used the general term but did not actually mean all?

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                        Motown2Chitownposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        I'm going to venture a guess that he wasn't including you in that statement, Deepes. 

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                           Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Oh Goody!! I was almost about to cry...LOL

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                              Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Speaking of crying. She said some hurtful things and they make me sad and well I wasn't able to sleep because of all the tears and crying. I asked my lovely wife if I could cry on her shoulder and she said "get away from me you little ungrateful psychopathic pig". Where did that come from?

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                                 Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 UMMMMMMMM.. I dunno

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                        A Troubled Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        But, you aren't one of those who follows the hate cult of Christianity. Not only that, but we are teaching you a great deal of things here, and you're learning.

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                           Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Not so much learning as confirming my bias of what I had already picked up based on other notable comments made elsewhere

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                              Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Seems to me when you first showed up you claimed you knew very little about Atheism, you seem to understand us at this point so some learning has taken place. Most of us learn from one another. There are some who are not capable of learning. Shall I list them for you or would that be redundant?

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                                 Deepes Mindposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 Ohhh.. that.. Yes I have learned a lot more about atheism. But it did still confirm what I already thought about atheists (for the most part)
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 No need to persecute anyone.. You know how you atheists are..

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                                    Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Compassionate, articulate, humble, handsome, shall I go on?

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   Beth37posted 9 years ago

   Oh... I see now. I have to click on something that says I support abortion. Yeah, Im sorry, Im not going to click on it, but the video does sound very good.

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      bBereanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      But it gives you a "when did you stop beating your wife" kind of option. 

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         Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Ive NEVER beaten my wife, I don't care what they say!

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      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I didn't have to click on anything of that nature.

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         Beth37posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I tried it again. It didn't ask me to click on anything. What an awesome video. I can completely relate to it. Beautiful! Thank you for sharing it Jonny!

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