Establishing the age of the earth is not necessary for the believer.

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   CJ Simonelliposted 10 years ago

   While "establishing" the age of the earth is essential for the evolutionist, whose theory requires billions of years for the proposed happenings to theoretically occur, it is not required of believers in the Word, who need only to trust in the infinite, eternal, all-powerful God and Creator. Seven represents completeness, and the key to the seven-day creation account (including the time of rest), regardless of the details, may be that in one form or another, we are being told by the Spirit through the Word that God's PRIMARY act of creation was then COMPLETE (with changes since this time being secondary). The debate continues as to whether "day" in the creation account refers to a literal day or represents an age or is strictly symbolic; whether or not processes during creation were so rapid that creation is "as if" billions of years old; how accurate or inaccurate our dating methods are; how greatly floods, volcanic eruptions and other natural disasters may have distorted the "aging" of the earth; how long humans have been on earth how long Adam and Eve (as well as various animals) existed before decay and death began, how complete were biblical genealogies; how much or how little did God through the Spirit reveal to us in the Word concerning creation, people groups, spiritual beings and their interactions with people, etc.; how greatly the details of the creation account are affected by the use of men through the Spirit to give us the Word (we know that men carried along by the Spirit saw and described things beyond their knowledge, such as planes before their invention, yet still had to describe them in a limited human manner); how much deception is at play in the presentation and withholding of "evidences" by biased and zealous scientists and reporters who are overly motivated in one direction; and so on. These matters of debate may not need to be claimed or explained, and they should not be stated definitively without divine revelation, as this may put unnecessary or even inaccurate stumbling blocks in the way of belief, thereby causing more harm than good. What we do know definitively through the Holy Spirit and the living Word is that God created all seen and unseen things in heaven and on earth, and that he created us in his very image, and anything that contradicts these eternal truths is not from God, but from the evil one.

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      MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You are absolutely correct. A believer can choose to ignore all scientific knowledge and theories. That's completely fine. No one will ever force you to study science or believe anything that science has to offer. That is your choice.
      
      However, you don't seem to be satisfied with that. You want everyone else to ignore scientific knowledge and active try to convince them to do so. That's where you run into problems.

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         CJ Simonelliposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not making any claims about the age of the earth.

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            MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not understand why you are making any claims about anything. Honestly, no one is trying to change your beliefs or anyone elses, I don't understand why this is such a big deal to you.

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      EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Obviously then, science is the "evil one". If that is the case, everything science has discovered or invented is evil. Doctors must be evil, they rely on science. Computers and cell phones must be evil, they rely on science. Hubpages forums must be evil, it relies on science. Almost everything on the planet must be evil.

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      Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You and your religion are what is wrong with humanity. You are the reason religion halts social and scientific progress at every turn. You and your religion are the reason women are punished for being raped, because that's what the holy book says to do. You and your religion are the reason the United States is nearly dead-last in terms of education. You and your religion are the reason that children are molested while the Vatican covers it up.
      
      You are everything that is deplorable in Western civilization, and you disgust me.

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         Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         That's rather harsh Z. You can lay the ills of society at the door of a religion perhaps, but CJ is just a very small fish in a very big pond.

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            CJ Simonelliposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            A hint of kindness in a HUB forum? God bless you, Disappearinghead, for that if nothing else.

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         CJ Simonelliposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Zelkiiro: Whoever punishes women for being raped does not have the Spirit of God, though they may be acting on "religion" - manmade traditions.
         
         The United States was a leader in education until the time they turned their backs on God. It was precisely when they took God out of the system that our scores plummeted!
         
         I don't know how you concluded anything about molested children, but clearly you do not know God or his ways.
         
         At this time, God's people from various tribes and nations are being tortured, raped and murdered by those following the deceiver, and despite pleas for aid, godless people have been intentionally IGNORING it!

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   CJ Simonelliposted 10 years ago

   Science does not contradict the eternal truths that God is the Creator and that we were created in his image. The evil one (known also as Satan, Lucifer, the devil, the deceiver, etc.) is attempting to distort the scientific truths through evolution theory and lead many astray.

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      Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Why? Why would satan want people to believe in evolution? At the final judgement will God send people to hell for believing in evolution? Does incorrect belief brjng judgement or evil actions?
      
      You do understand don't you that if the Christian version of satan is to be believed, he had a personality change sometime between the old and new testaments and invented demons only 2000 years ago.

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         CJ Simonelliposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Only one thing results in a human going to hell - saying NO to the Spirit of God (no thank you, I do not want my sins paid for through Jesus's death; I want to remain in my sin and accept my eternal punishment in hell).
         
         When a person accepts the fantastical conclusions within evolution theory (i.e., we evolved without our Creator; we were not created in his image), he is denying the Word, and since Jesus is the Word in the flesh, that person is denying Jesus! Satan is the deceiver, his very nature is deception and lies, and he leads people away from the truth (Jesus is the truth) through all kinds of deceptions. A primary deception of our day is evolution. Once it was a small minority who would not follow the devil's deception through Hitler. Today it is a minority who will not follow the devil's deception through evolution theory. Creation is a powerful testimony of God's existence and nature. The devil is attempting to silence that testimony through evolution theory. He is attempting to make people deny the Word of God, which is Jesus.
         
         Satan's personality - liar, thief, accuser, murderer - is the same in the old and new testaments. Some say demons are the fallen angels, some say they are the disembodied spirits of the half-angel, half-human races of the bible. I don't know, but while they existed long before Jesus' arrival, it seems the Son of God was the one who enlightened most of us regarding demons.

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            wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            You were quite correct when you said the believer doesn't need to know the age of the earth.  The believer doesn't need to know a whole lot of things because the believer makes assumptions about what is true and what is not - fact and truth are not relevant.  Only a belief in a god.
            
            But you cross the line here when you say the scientific theory includes a statement that god is not guiding evolution and that we did not evolve in the unknown likeness of an undetectable creature of your imagination.  A single moment's though will tell you that no scientist will ever say that we don't look like something that has no definition of appearance.
            
            So this is just the mutterings of someone completely ignorant of science OR evolution; someone who has heard it is a bad thing and therefore they don't like with without need to know what it is.  Much like the age of the earth, come to think about it...

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            Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Go find a rebellious satan in the old testament and while you are at it,  go find a demon or a fallen angel. Perhaps you should read a Jewish commentary while you are at it, you might learn something.

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               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Doubtful: she has already "learned" that evolution teaches abiogenesis when in fact it is a totally different field of study and not a part of evolution at all.
               
               One would wonder what would be "learned" from a Jewish commentary!

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               CJ Simonelliposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Disappearinghead: Here is an example: "They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons. They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan." (Psalm 106:37) In this Psalm we are given a rare example of the use of the word "demon" in the old testament. We are also given a big clue here because the psalmist (most likely David) uses both the words "demons" and "idols" for the same beings. When you see the words "idols" or "gods" in the old testament, these are referring to demons. In old testament times, the Spirit of God was given (e.g., "You gave your good Spirit to instruct them." Nehemiah 9:20), and someone who spent as much time with God as David would know things others didn't know through the Spirit. The old testament predicted a day when God's Spirit would be poured out much more generously on people everywhere - "And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy." (Joel 2:28). Jesus had full understanding of demons and spoke of them. Following Jesus' death and resurrection, the promised Holy Spirit of God was given to people everywhere. The revelation of the Spirit likely has a lot to do with the greater knowledge of and understanding of the demons in the New Testament and in our day.

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      EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If you say so, but those who think that way are a tiny minority of people, a group that is shrinking all the time, giving into Satan as we speak. LOL.

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   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   Beliefs that spring directly from objective facts are the very opposite of "fantastical".
   
   I respect the right of people to believe whatever they want for whatever reason.  But I think public policy should be based on the best possible understanding of all the objective data available.  because people taking the Bible as absolute truth have led us astray many time by saying extinction of species is impossible and other such easily disproveable edicts.

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      CJ Simonelliposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Who says extinction of species is impossible?
      
      God alone speaks truth only. The Word of God is flawless, though it can be misinterpreted, translated incorrectly, is given by limited humans carried along by the Holy Spirit, and so on. Perhaps most importantly, it must be understood through the Spirit because it is spiritually discerned, and it appears as foolishness to the naturally-minded who do not have the Spirit.

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         psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Most Christian churches did up until the early Victorian period because the world was made is it is.  So the idea things would go away was no more possible than that they evolved from other life forms.
         
         Which was, of curse, completely wrong.  So either God was wrong or his followers got it wrong.  Either one applies to this example as well IMHO.

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            CJ Simonelliposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            The Word does not say things cannot go extinct, just as it doesn't say they will not change. God and his Word are true, while every person is a liar to a greater or lesser degree. "Microevolution" as some call it does not need to be challenged; that which contradicts the Word does. And yes, Wilderness, the ideas that we evolved without a Creator have been pushed within evolution theories. God did make us from dust (simple things), but breathed into us his life.

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               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Quote please?  What scientist (not priest, please) has claimed evolution has taken place without god being involved?
               
               Because a scientist cannot know that.  As god is defined as undetectable, we can never know when or if His finger is involved in actions in the natural world.
               
               Sorry, but saying god made us from dust does not impact the theory of evolution at all as it does not address the origin of life.  Which you have been repeatedly told.

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               EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Wow! You may want to change the friends you hang out with.

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