Sometimes I get a little irritated when a Muslim says, "God doesn't have son, what need for there is a son to God?"
All I have to say is that 1. Jesus is called the Son of God. That is his title, Mohammad was called Mohammad and you consider him the last of the prophets and so I say Mohammad was the last of the prophets.
So why does a Muslim insist that God has no son when in both our religions one of the most important things about our faiths is family?
Sandra- It has do with the belief system one is born/grows up in. Sikhism evolved from the Prophet Guru Nanak who came much later than Prophet Mohammad. Each religion followers think only there beliefs may be "right" and others may be "wrong" hence when somebody proclaims Jesus as the "only" son of God for a non christian even that may seem like "insisting" on them.
Our views change based on what we believe. My mention of Jesus was just to prove a point and I have no intention of hurting anybody's sentiments. Please forgive me if I unknowingly have said something to hurt you or others.
Sometimes I get a little irritated when a christian says "There is a god, and He sent a son to save me and I need to accept this son as my personal savior or I will burn in hell for all eternity."
All I have to say is 1. This is a political paranoid delusion written to control the ignorant masses and collect wealth and power for the church.
So - why do christians bleat on about family and then get divorced and murder and fight in the name of their savior?
I think that you can be a little irrational yourself. Since I didn't say any of the above. I only asked a question to a Muslim who might have an answer for me. I sometimes get irritated too when a Christain says the same thing because there is no hell for a person to burn in for all eternity and even christians bleat on about family and then get divorced and murder and fight in the name just the same as people who are not christians... including atheist.
Anyways, you still insist that anyone who does believe in God is brainwashed because you have found a better way of life without God. Which is fine by me but insulting because 1st, you say that all these really bad things that humans do are because of a belief in God, and 2nd, Obviously God's way hasn't really ever been given a chance now has it. If it had then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
I think that it is sorta idiotic to still think after all this time that any human has the capability of fixing everything that has been done in Jesus' name or otherwise. Besides, you just don't like the concept or even want to understand the deeper things about God.
You were hurt, you got angry and gave up and spend you life trying to convince people that there never was a God. I think that it is also sad that for most of the human life God has been the inspiration for all the advancements we have made.
Then the more advancements in technology and medicine we make the further away from the belief in God....but sooner or later, and even at the moment, even the smartest people in the world are coming to conclusion that yes, there really is a God.
And besides, all people are fallible but it still is not fair to blame the things that others do or have done in the name of Jesus' on the ones who have never and would never do any such thing. Just as other atheist do, will or have done a lot of terrible things as well against other atheist and against believers but you are not accountable for their actions because you know better than that.
you read the Bible too, so you know that God said do not kill, you also know that is said that all humans came with the same set of laws built into their hearts. So I wont call you a liar for insisting that you understand right from wrong without the belief in God because the Bible didn't tell me anything on the contrary.
So it is OK for you to get irritated with Muslims because they do not believe the same fairy tale that you believe, but when I get irritated with both of your cults - that is because I am hurt and angry? You sound more like a proper christian with every passing day
And the only real criticism I have evr made of the christians and muslims is that they don't practice what they preach.
If you are going to stand up and claim to have higher moral standards than me because you believe in a magical invisible super being who handed you a set of rules to live by - you better be able to back it up with action.
Priests in a position of power should not abuse children. But guess what?
And I don't really want to get into the historical records of just how many millions have been killed and maimed in order to spread your religion. That doesn't count apparently and should be forgotten because it was just men being men and doesn't prove beyond a shadow a doubt that very few believers really believe. Or they would never have done the things they do.
well I don't know what to tell you that I didn't say before but don't call the whole heard black when there is one that is white. It is obvious that nothing any believer does will be good enough for you and it's fine but I wouldn't blame all atheist for the acts done by just some and I wouldn't blame all christians for what some other christians have done and I wouldn't blame all muslims for what some other muslims have done... you understand I am sure.
To me, it just goes to show that all people, whether believer or non believer, do the same things and I never said I was a better moral person than you or anyone else. I have had my share of things I am not so proud too.
Your like a commandment type of fella cept for the the God commandment, which seems like a shame. You say you lead a morally upright life, you do your part to help others etc... but in the same sentence exhibit blatant disregard for anyone who really wants to do the best that they can but just can't.
Plus, for being as smart as you are, it really seems like you want to lead the whole mislead bunch even further away from what they really want to be like. If they are really trying to be like Jesus then why not help them be like Jesus. Instead you want to ridicule them for even believing in someone better then themselves.
I know you understand it, I just know you know exactly what I am saying. Even if you say you don't, you know I won't believe you. You are too smart for that.
I know exactly what you are saying. I tried that first. The problem is, when you believe in god/religion you cannot possibly be open to the idea that any of it is wrong. It is all right and correct and whatever interpretation you have applied is correct. Which is why I refuse to quote the good bok. All that does is end in an argument over interpretation.
You sure do sound like a proper christian now though. Guess you found a new church?
And you have completely taken the "moral" high ground here - and you don't even know it.
Here you are accusing me of not helping anyone when they are trying to do their best - after I helped you during a period of confusion. I can see the difference between wanting to do their best and pushing their beliefs on others.
And if you think "doing their best" is telling people they should fear hell and abortions should be made illegal...................
and again, you know exactly what I mean by what I am implying. And now you sound like a christian as well. I never accused you of not helping, in fact I called you a commandment kinda guy excluding the God one but it seems obvious that you took me saying; that you shouldn't blame the whole bunch for the acts of what some have done, into somehow implying that the one good one doesn't make a difference.
You could be the white sheep in the heard of black atheist but you automatically thought I was saying your not a good person. Why?
So your saying you do not show blatant disregard for anyone who really wants to do the best that they can but just can't?
If it is me taking a higher moral ground in your eyes then so be it. I don't think it is right to sabotage, confuse or blame people for the actions of others. If it so bad to feel compassion for people who in the name of any faith, try to do their best well then it is what it is.
The difference between you and I is that I would rather try to understand them then shun them and disregard what they believe altogether because it doesn't suite what you think I believe.
No, no, no as a matter of fact because of what I believe I chose to understand and accept and learn from people even if the things that they do are not exactly what I would do. But I am sure by know you figure I am shoving my beliefs down your throat and all I could about that is, you don't have to keep reading but if it makes you happy constantly dispute billions of peoples good intentions then of course do whatever makes you happy.
Ah - now I am disputing billions of people's good intentions. The whole thing is rather odd, because you started this thread with these words:
Sometimes I get a little irritated when a Muslim says, "God doesn't have son, what need for there is a son to God?"
And this is showing how you are accepting, understanding and learning from?
It shows that I am asking a Muslim, so yes trying to learn, understand and accept and being honest in the same respect because that is what they say. I hardly think it is bad of me ask, don't you ask questions when you have them or do you just assume?
It would seem so, yes you are disputing billions of peoples good intentions by assuming that because they base their lives on a belief in God and since you have not made it abundantly clear that you do not lump all believers into one giant pile of B.S, then I think it would be a good assumption that you are disputing billions of good intentions.
Well, you know what they say about good intentions.
Just read what you wrote:
The muslims believe that Mohammad came to show that Jesus was not the son of god and to show the muslims that the word of god had been corrupted by the christians.
I would like to hear it from a Muslim and then when a Muslim actually says this to me, then you know I will ask more questions. And somehow I really get the feeling that Muslims are not trying to show the word of God being corrupted by christians. That is a faulty assumption and if one says it, you would take to it being true but when another one says no Islam is a religion of peace you would tell them they are mistaken and to read their books again.
Because we are all children of Abraham and hence forth, children of God. Muslims have prophets. Where Judaism and Christianity have very little. Islamics have 240 some prophets. Like Catholic Christianity has saints. Muhammad was the first prophet. It is said he ascended into heaven where the Dome of the Rock is now located. That is why the rock of the temple mount is sacred to them.
That all looks wrong, to me. There are lots of prophets in Judaism and Christianity, and Islam doesn't think Mohammed was the first, either.
Oh, Muhammad wasn't the first Islamic prophet to ASCEND into heaven to be at the right hand of Allah? Really? I didn't know that. Who was the first Islamic prophet then? I can see where what I wrote was confusing. I am talking about ascension.
Judaism and Christianity do not have over 240 Prophets. Prophets. The Mormons might. But Judaism, I am pretty sure that would be a no. It is something that is learned as a difference between the Jewish faith and theirs. I maybe mistaken. I won't deny that. But do you have proof that Jews and Christians have more prophets than the Islamic religion?
For the Muslims the prophet is the highest amongst man but god is in a different league.
They worship God as the light which has no form -formless no beginning and no end and also all powerful.The prophets are limited in their power as compared to God.Here also they have two divisions in the prophets-the one who writes being considered as the higher prophet.
The prophet Mohammmad once failed in his prophecy and he later said "I should have said by the will of God".
Christian philosophy differs as they acknowledge both the Prophet and God to be One .
Both are correct an example with the Christian prophet Jesus- When he was nailed to the cross he asked "God why have you forsaken me". He did not have the power over his death but was an instrument in gods hands.
Oh, thank you. I see. "god is in a different league". Surprisingly this makes a lot of sense. What do you think personally?
Yes he is -after enlightenment I can only request god I cannot demand from him-it is upto him.
I don't have all knowledge like he does .My knowledge and powers are still very limited.The prophets have a glimpse of God-fuse with him momentarily in totality.Its on death that the absolute fusion happens and not when one is alive.
Muslims believe in jesus as a prophet not a son of God because it is a part of their faith. Quran says that God is one. He has no patner or son. Even the Bible says the same thing...."Thou shalt worship the lord,thy God; And him only shalt thou serve" Mathew 4:10
Jesus himself warned his people of what in Islam is refered to as shirk(Polytheism.) He said in Mathew 7:21 "Not everyone that sayeth unto me (Jesus), Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my father, which is in heaven"
for more on this see this link:
And some Jews believe that Jesus was a false prophet, stripping him of any entitlements whats so ever. I believe.
Only Messianic Jews believe in Jesus' divinity. They're a rather small portion, all told.
Both Jesus and Mohammad were great prophets and equal in the eyes of God. Its mans ego which differentiates between them.They both represented God or the Light .
You know this how? Did God tell you this? That's supremely arrogant of you to presume you know God's mind that well.
Being enlightened I do.
have a look you should understand
http://find.franklin.com/nav/ca/Spiritu … r/ebooks/0
I had no idea being enlightened was that simple. Just say it and you are, eh?
Sandra...I thought mohammad was a prize fighter...Tee hee... just kidding...
LOL Your Majesty, why don't you let the old man off the hook, so he can go have some sleep
It's pretty late now in France. Or is it rather early?
Good one Misha.
Welcome back Sandra. Haven't seen you in a while.
Keep asking those questions and don't let anyone stop you.
Mohammad left before he passed on his baton, and now two groups of Muslims kill each other over who they thought Mohammad meant to give control of Islam.
I guess he didn't see that coming.
"I guess he didn't see that coming."
That's the trouble with the profit thing. .
A lot seems to be going on about God in this forum..
Why don't you read one of my hubs that talks about faith in God.
be careful, blatant advertising of your own hubs in this forum is seen as bad manners.
"I had no idea being enlightened was that simple. Just say it and you are, eh?"
Not quite. $39.95 +++
I'm a Muslim (which is diff from Sikhism if u dunno). I will try to answer your questions with my intermediate English language and I apologize that I did only read the first few comments bcoz the post is very long.
To make things clear :
Each Muslim HAS to beleive in all messengers and respect them all. Some prophets were preferre and given some miracles that weren't given to others, but they are ALL equal in humanness.and that Muhammed (peace be upon him) is the last prophet.
It's obligatory for us to beleive in them all, if a Muslim disrespect or doesn't beleive in any of the messengers, he's not a muslim.
Now comes the difference point...We Muslims respect jesus and beleive his birth was a miracle...The word "Jesus" was mentioned 16 times in Quran..the word "Messiah" was mentioned 10 times,,,,,and the word "Muhammed" was mentioned 4 times in the holy Quran. There's a separate chapter(Surah) in Quran named (Mary "Mariam in Arabic") and there's no other chapter named with a woman's name , not even one of the wifes or daughters of prophet Muhammad.....
We respect the Messiah Jesus (peace be upon him) and we think he's a human and a messenger of God. He's the word and a spirit of God and a human being...We beleive that it's sufficient that Allah (God) is the guardian and saviour. That's what we beleive in and we also beleive that Jesus said that about himself and didn't claim himself to be the son of God (that's the difference between Quran and the current copies of the bible)..notice also that Quran calls the prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) as "the son of Mary"....It's made clear in the Quran, which is, I know, contradictory to most of the current copies of the bible.
I dunno much about the catholic religion and trinity (which we don't beleive in), most christians here in Egypt are Orthothox and I dunno what's the diff really between a catholic and an orthothox....but I think that cathlics only beleive in trinity,,(im not sure, you ell me!) Here are some verses from the Quran that will clarify things more for you:
[3.45] When the angels said: 'O Mary, Allah gives you glad tidings of a Word (Be) from Him, whose name is Messiah, jesus, the son of Mary. He shall be honored in this world and in the Everlasting Life - and he shall be among those who are close.
[4.171] People of the Book, do not exaggerate your religion. Do not say about Allah except the truth. Indeed, the Messiah, jesus son of Mary, is only a Messenger (and Prophet) of Allah, and His Word (Be) which He gave to Mary, and a (created) spirit by Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers and do not say: 'Trinity.' Refrain, it is better for you. Allah is only One God. Exaltations to Him that He should have son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth, it is sufficient that Allah is the Guardian.
[3.59] Truly, the likeness of (Prophet) jesus with Allah, is as the likeness of Adam, He created him from dust then He said to him "Be" and he was.
You can read my hub for further info on this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Some-true-belie … m-Religion
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