'' Lack of knowledge can never rule out possibility of GOD'' ''Atheism is lack of knowledge'' ''Therefore,Atheism can never rule out possibility of GOD''
"disbelief in the existence of God or gods."
First you need to get the definition correct before you can attempt a logical statement.
Could you "rule out" Zeus? Can you prove he doesn't exist? If however one claims Zeus to be part of reality then one has to supple the evidence.
Perhaps, this, whatever this is, is a weak attempt at humor, a ruse or an attempt to bait, to dangle absurdity in an attempt to garner some form of attention. Certainly, there is no rational thought behind such statements. One might say a complete disregard of human intelligence, an abandonment of reason and logic. Perhaps, simply one who suffers an acute form of masochistic endowment. But, perhaps, it is that a god speaks through the word of Man. It has been done before and even today, as so many here speak so convincingly to the attributes of one god or another.
Other than this worthy reproach there is nothing left to say. But, to who ever wrote this, I wish you peace and good will.
You must be trolling, right? Because that is pure tautology with a dash of strawman.
From all groups tested Atheist have the highest religious knowledge of any group. Making your statement false.
As far as Atheist proving God dose not exist, they can not, in turn making them agnostic. Being agnostic, like it or not, there will always be the doubt factor of God. This question that will never go away like gays, pot and sex until the end of time and it's so tiresome. Maybe this is our hell on earth with Christians, we must all pay for until they shrink through nonsense and the rest grow in enlightenment.
Life is a lack of knowledge, cosmically speaking. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.
Ignorance is a refusal to know what is knowable and there is so much that is knowable.
I think ignorance is also thinking you know what you don't. We know a lot, but we are stuck on a very tiny planet in a very large universe. We speculate a lot at the moment.
We are born, live and will die on an insignificant speck of rock hurtling through space at over 2 million miles an hour and we are coming from nowhere and going to no where. We know that. I would think that those who bemoan what is not known fail to understand and appreciate what we do know, which is much more than yesterday and less then tomorrow. We are an evolving reasoning life form. It is we who ask the question and then we answer ourselves and then more questions, more answers. What is not known will be learned, as that is the nature of Man.
We are spinning around our sun, we are spinning around our own galaxy, we don't know how fast our galaxy or universe is moving and we don't even know if they are moving.
I agree with all of that, except for the comment about those who bemoan that we don't know. That's not bemoaning. That's honesty. To think one knows is to stop learning.
Perhaps, it is a matter of perspective. I found your context much like comparing knowledge to a used care salesman trying to hustle a crunker. I think, without going back, you said something about somebody trying to sell you something. I place knowledge and the quest for knowledge on a higher level.
I have been on hub pages, on and off, for some years, mostly off. I have learned some things about human nature that I did not know and some things about myself, my waning patience and tolerance of others. Something I probably should work on, but I am to old and no longer have the patience.
A couple of things that I have learned; people demand tolerance, but do not give it. people promote a bias without fact and call it a truth. Theists, not all, but too many are very quick to demean and degrade and then offer to pray for you. I think insults should have class. In many cases, I think, many here prove the assertion that our educational system has failed. Now you see that could be construed as a insult, but then maybe not.
I used to be involved with McDonalds and had the occasion to meet and do some business with Ray Kroc in the early 70's, who loved one liners, "If your rip you rot' and "when your green you grow." You just gotta love it. Silly stuff, but oh so very true, so I do think that you and I have a common ground. It's the context that seems to get in the way.
I always enjoy the back and forth
Those who possess true knowledge on a subject are not used car salesman. Unfortunately, knowledge concerning a religion, or the ultimate truths of reality, does not equate to 'true knowledge' in my opinion. This topic is all about opinion and how our beliefs affect our world view and our interaction with others. Beliefs of cosmic consequences (and I lump atheism into this category), which drive our behavior patterns are judged for their value, to the whole. Their personal value is of little consequence to the collective.
Beliefs which result in behavior patterns which gloss over personal arrogance, impatience with other views, condescending comments toward other views and general rudeness explained away by belief that those with opposing views are somehow lacking in intelligence simply because they disagree are as useless, in my mind, as those which attempt to convince us disagreement will somehow void our chances in participating in an afterlife. Both drive discord. Both strive to create resentment. Neither contributes positively to the harmony of human interaction and both seek to limit freedom of conscience.
So, to me, claiming knowledge on cosmic issues serves no useful purpose to one's fellow man and attempts to create discord by those who insist on claiming it should be met with resistance.
As you say, your personal value of your opinion has no value and I would think that you will not find anyone here who disagrees with that.
I wish you well
Rad Man,you mean Atheism is ''belief'' of absence of GOD,this is what I have been saying that Atheism is actually a ''religion'' having ''belief'' of ''absence of GOD'' but makes a false claim of ''lack of belief'' or ''lack of knowledge'',so, you admitted my point of view,my proposition is upon the basis of Atheist's claim,that logically never conclude the impossibility of GOD,consequently,GOD is possible as claimed by ATHEISTS.You must not angree upon it.
"disbelief in the existence of God or gods."
I'm not sure how you get from the above definition to your statement?
I think you are trying to make a point here, but your passion to do so, is interfering with your skills.
I think it is said that only the fool in his heart would claim that a god/gods do not exist. I would agree with that. One would have to be enormously foolish to claim, as a truth, what he does not know, but merely believes. As an Atheist and one who does not possess a knowledge of existence, of the universe to know what is or is not out there, so I cannot categorically say that gods do not exist. Simply to state a truth on a belief is wrong, would you not agree?
Would it be equally true for one to assert a truth, when one equally shares an absence of knowledge of the universe to say categorically that a god/gods exist? Is he not the foolish one, as well? Can one say that one god exists, two, three or an entire pantheon of gods, as believed by the Greeks and others. Can you prove that only one god exists or is that simply what you want to believe? Do those who believe in two gods find you an atheist, because you do not believe in two gods?
I am Atheistic, because I accept one less god then you. I believe this, not because I can prove that a god does not exist, but that it is unreasonable to accept, as a fact that one does exist. If you wish to call the exercise of reason a religion, you are certainly free to do so and if you choose to believe in a god or gods, again you are free to do so.
We still have in this country a freedom of religion, but all thing pass, but in the mean time I support your exercise of belief and I do not condemn you for it, as Atheism has no provision for such condemnation, as is in religious belief.
That you endear a deity belief, would you deny my freedom not to believe? Would you prefer to live under a religious mandate, as opposed to the Bill of Rights. If you choose a religious mandate would Islam be acceptable, certainly there are more muslims then Christians and does that not make it a greater truth? Judaism is much older than Chriatianity, should we not all be Jews. Should we just decide by ourselves without an attempt to intimidate others or to burn people alive or cut off their heads. What if we just used our god given talent to reason to decide, after all The Founding Fathers did, but a theocracy does not see it that way. Which way would you like?
cjhunsinger ,Would you please ,explain why this statement is not rational in light of your ''wisdom''?
You state that Atheism is a lack of knowledge. That Is an irrational statement and that is the foundation for your attempt at logic/. Your encounter with Atheists may be limited to what is said here on hub pages. From what I have read from other Atheists here leads me to think that they, most certainly, possess a high degree of knowledge. This, without any other reference, makes the point of an irrational statement.
Now, that it would seem that you are in disagreement with me, perhaps, you can show that Atheists/Atheism is an absence or lack of knowledge. I am sure that you are a student of epistemology and would have no problem with a reasonable explanation, Atheism is lacking in knowledge.
If you would like to test me, with reference to my knowledge concerning any theistic practice, (god belief) the bible (any), the Torah, the Koran and their origins, perhaps Atheism itself. By the way the practice of Atheism predates any of these god beliefs.
I do await your reasoning.
cjhunsinger ,Rad Man ,I think you both have not understood my point of argument,I am not questioning the'' individual knowledge'' of Atheists,I am questioning the ''claim of the Atheists'' that ''Atheism is lack of knowledge or lack of belief of gods'',and even ''disbelief of gods'' does not mean ''belief of absence of gods'',consequently , the foundation of Atheism is that as we have no knowledge of gods,therefore, we must not have belief of gods,this is conclusion from lack of knowledge,Atheism does not claim for perfect knowledge of absence of gods,hence,the same in light of its own definitions never rules out the possibility of GOD,It rules out only ''knowledge of GOD'',in other words,as I have understood,Atheism is ''absence of knowledge'' and not ''absence of GOD'',therefore,a true atheist can never claim that GOD is impossible or GOD is absent,he only claims that he has no knowledge of GOD,therefore,he has no belief of GOD.
Thank you for the clarification, but I do not think that all is clear. I think that you are confusing the words, knowledge and belief. Atheism, by any definition, is not a lack of knowledge or understanding; it is a dismissal, not of the gods, as for the Atheist there is nothing to dismiss here, but rather a dismissal of the claims that a god or gods exist.
I cannot categorically say that gods do not exist, as I do not possess a knowledge that encompasses all that is contained in or outside of the universe and either do you. You assert that gods exist because you want too, for a myriad of reasons and none have anything to do with knowledge, but rather the need to believe.
For me, as one who embraces an Atheistic philosophy, the belief in gods violates my sense of reason, as there is no evidence to conclude that gods exist, only belief that they do and this is unacceptable to my mind.
That you believe in a god is good for you and no harm is done. The harm is done when there is a condemnation of those who do not believe in "your" god. For Christianity dogma is established to mandate the adherence of belief, as in a Bible and more particularly something called 'The Ten Commandments' where by 'unbelievers' are punished, simply for being human, And this is a humanity created by this god, to punish? For Jews, and for Muslims, they too, have there laws of adherence and all others are non-believers. This mentality has been, is and always will be a means and reason to subjugate others. That you believe in a god would you prefer a theocracy, which bans all other gods and people like me. In Christianity this was accomplished and it was called the Dark Ages, when brutal savagery, ignorance and absolute intolerance ruled Europe. Islam is no different and no less savage and ignorant.
To respond to your, "therefore,a true atheist can never claim that GOD is impossible." Is it then that a true believer can say that gods absolutely exist and they exist by my definition alone?
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