Products of Conception

1. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   What is wrong with selling body parts of aborted fetuses?
   Nothing, right?
   ...especially since we are not sure when the soul enters the body.
   
   But, what if we knew for sure that the soul and the body are one from the moment of conception on, (which frankly, makes scientific/spiritual sense to me.)
   
   THEN would there be something wrong with marketing "products of conception" ????

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   1. 59

      Michael-Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      As a firm believer in spiritual eternity, ' life ' of a  person continues in human body from the moment of  conception. Only pregnant woman can describe in details the impact in her  total being indwelling of that new identity. The men should listen and contemplatively observe the phenomena of developing new creation entering earthly realm to fulfill unique role, no one  else is designated to do. It is more than just borrowed word " sanctity of life" describes. It is blood and life, it is extended hand of the Creator to mean something, to be someone to rule and produce, love ,support and dominate over  the  'works of His  hands.'Every sensible person pure and undefiled integrity knows that ; such would not touch other life, because of respecting his own life , restraining himself from beastly appetite killing innocent for greedy gain. Until recently it has  popular name 'civilization' , now stained by tyranny ...
      Have you seen happy lovely and generous people in the industry of murdering innocent and  helpless ? It is spiritual identity reflected in soul and physical appearance of those  deceived by evil, pain and misery.
      What was the  question ?-  What is wrong ? See and tell...

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      1. 76

         Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I agree: "Conception is blood combined with life. Conception is the extended hand of the Creator to mean something, to give someone (an individual soul) the power to rule and produce, to love, support and dominate over the works of His hands: His creation."
         
         We were given self-guided will, not instinct-driven will. We were given self-guided will combined with self-awareness.  Our Creator knows we are truly amazing sons and daughters.
         
         (Some are sons and daughters of man. Some are sons and daughters of God. Its a matter of
         individual choice.)

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      2. 95

         wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Good answer.
         
         Next question: do you find it reasonable that others are forced to abide by your beliefs?  You did begin your post with "As a firm believer...".

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         1. 76

            Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            How about the answer is a given:
            N O !
            (Just pretend, anyway…)
            That is the reality: Only one, as in Oneself, can either accept or reject the precepts of others. Focus on that reality. Focus … focus …

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            1. 95

               wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               And yet we see innumerable people demanding that others be prohibited from killing a parasitic growth in their bodies.  All because their belief is that it has a soul and is thus a person.

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               1. 76

                  Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  No.
                  For instance, if Susan decides she has conceived a parasitic growth, and decides to vacuum out this unwanted host, when she sees the legs and lungs and other products of her conception she will not say to herself, "There is a baby I could have loved, a baby that could have loved me. A baby that could have contributed to humanity in some small or big way." No, she will say: "There's that parasite. Now torn to pieces and nothing but a bloody mess. Gross! If you doctors want to sell parts from that heap of lungs and toes, go right on ahead."
                  
                  Well, good for her, I say.

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   2. 59

      BuddiNsenseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What happens in identical twins, conjoined twins, parasitic twins and vanishing twins? How many souls they have?

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      1. 76

         Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Two. One for each brain. I think, in these cases, one of the souls was overly attached to the other.
         
         Just Surmising As Always.

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         1. 59

            BuddiNsenseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Souls also replicate?

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            1. 76

               Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               No. Two separate souls. But how would I know?
               Just surmising based on logic. My logic.

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               1. 59

                  BuddiNsenseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  you: if we knew for sure that the soul and the body are one from the moment of conception on,
                  If soul and body are one from conception, either soul divides after conception because identical twins appear after conception or one of the twins do not have soul.

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                  1. 76

                     Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     no they don't!  not logical to ME..

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                     1. 59

                        BuddiNsenseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        You mean one of the twins is soulless?

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                        1. 76

                           Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           No silly, two separate souls enter. One for each desired/destined brain. Without the life force of the second soul, the second embryo/ fetus/ infant/ person would not grow/develop. I believe souls are driven to take on a body/mind/brain for the sake of having consciousness/awareness.
                           
                           In the case of conjoined twins, they want to be on the earth plane and are willing to take on the situation. There is some type of karma going on and a lesson to be learned by undertaking the experience. (Maybe the karma of conjoined twins is from a double suicide! )
                           If they can be separated through medical procedures, they will be grateful for both Life and being a separate soul/separate Self. One can only find God through conferring with one's own self. Through ones' own sense of awareness.
                           
                           I would surmise based on metaphysical reasoning.

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                           1. 59

                              BuddiNsenseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              You mean at the time of conception two souls enter? Then what happens in a vanishing twin, one soul remain in two bodies?
                              How many souls the following babies have?
                              http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RwdH5DTKRas/S … cation.bmp
                              http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1678683/image … cebook.jpg
                              http://i1.wp.com/i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pi … 34x356.jpg

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                              1. 76

                                 Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 One soul for each brain, I would imagine. Like I said, I am guessing. Maybe it would be one soul for each heart?
                                   Maybe one soul could operate two brains and faces in a parallel sense.
                                 
                                 
                                 Who knows what is photoshopped.
                                 
                                 BTW  Note to the wise: Take your birth control.
                                 Note to the even wiser:
                                 Abstain.

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                                 1. 59

                                    BuddiNsenseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    That may be Photoshopped but there are real conditions like that.
                                    At the time of conception there is no heart nor brain, that occurs late.

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2. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   Have YOU ever lost a loved one? Boyfriend, husband, girlfriend, wife, beloved cat?
   best-friend dog?
   What if the soul also feels such emotional pain when killed and sent back to the astral realm?
   We really should stop bringing souls forth from the arms of the angels until we are ready to care for them with the same love they come to us with…
   if you ask me, which no one ...

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3. 95

   wildernessposted 7 years ago

   Yes there would be a reason.  Assuming a "soul" (whatever that might be) is what makes a person a person, if we knew it was present immediately after conception it would make abortion into murder.
   
   But we don't know that there even IS a soul, let alone that it is present in a zygote so the question is moot.  And no, that the imaginary "soul" MIGHT be there (or might not even if it does exist) is insufficient reason to ban abortion.

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   1. 76

      Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      How convenient ignorance is.
      I would rather be on the safe side.
      I would not like the karma of murder on my hands.

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      1. 95

         wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Oh?  Best not eat meat, then - it might be more intelligent than you though.  Or plants, for that matter, as they are known to communicate with each other and may also be intelligent life forms.  Maybe even "people", just mute and unmoving.
         
         It is, after all, only ignorance that allows us to kill either one...

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         1. 76

            Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            The human is the highest life-form and is very sacred based on its complex awareness and feelings which equate to advanced evolution (on a spiritual/soul level.) The death of a human is very serious compared to the death of a plant or animal.
            I would guess, based on what I have read and contemplated.

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            1. 95

               wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               sacred
               [ ˈsākrid ]
               ADJECTIVE
               connected with God (or the gods) or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration
               
               As humans are not connected with a god and certainly not dedicated to a religious purpose they cannot be sacred.
               
               Sorry, evolutionary success equates to longevity and mankind is not very successful there.  Give it another 100 million years and you might have a claim (though not as good as that of bacteria).
               
               But the plant or animal might be even more evolved, more intelligent and with multiple souls in each one.  That we don't think so doesn't mean it cannot be true, just as that we don't know a soul doesn't enter a zygote doesn't mean it doesn't.  Better stop killing plants and animals.  Including, unfortunately, mosquitoes - heck, they might be the gods that made us!
               
               Please note the similarity to the "logic" of not killing a fetus because it might have a soul.  The "logic" of the two arguments are identical.

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            2. 61

               Link10103posted 7 years agoin reply to this

               I have a feeling if dolphins were to suddenly evolve and be on the same level as humans physically/mentally/spiritually, your viewpoint wouldn't change.
               
               Is that correct, or is that just coming from the bias I have from the arrogance of your comment?

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               1. 76

                  Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Dolphins dont have hands. Without mind/brain+hand  connection/manifestation they cannot be more advanced than a creature with mind/brain+ hand connection/manifestation. Not being arrogant. just observant.

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                  1. 61

                     Link10103posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm guessing you don't deal with hypotheticals very often do you...thinking outside the box and all that jazz.

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                  2. 83

                     psycheskinnerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Clearly you are happy change the fact to suit your desired outcome.
                     
                     As a psychologist who specializes in animal psychology and sentience, I can tell you what you are saying is nonsense.  Biologically we are all species and many species are sentient.
                     
                     The only argument that humans are special is a religious one, not a biological one.

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                  3. 95

                     wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Observant, and quite willing to draw unsupported conclusions.  Or can you expand on the theory that no hands = no intelligence with some hard facts?

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                     1. 76

                        Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Hands in connection with brain, mind and, feelings and nervous system are tools for the self-aware. Self-awareness is what makes us special and on a higher plane compared to animals. Can you prove that a dolphin with fins or an orangoutang with digits and thumb are self aware? or a raccoon?
                        Animals take in data and respond according to instinct and a basic awareness of the outer environment. They are not aware of their inner thoughts or how they are thinking or even what they are thinking.

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                        1. 75

                           Quilligrapherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           Deja vous.
                           
                           “Backing up opinions with verifiable facts is an excellent way to establish that conclusions are independently supported by others in the real world.”
                           

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                           1. 76

                              Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              I only have one way to prove what I have said.
                              ...and that is this. I perceived the mind of my beloved friend dog. He had cancer and he was healing from a surgery. His head was on my shoulder and somehow I was able to perceive his awareness.
                              It was a very mystical experience I will never forget.
                              My conclusion: Animals perceive, but they do not have self-awareness.
                              Take it or leave it.

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4. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   LOGICALLY, LIFE is what is propelling the growth of the development and growth of the body.
   
   LIFE = SOUL.
   
   ~ individual unit of Life IS Soul.
   
   TWISI

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5. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   <" As humans are not connected with a god and certainly not dedicated to a religious purpose they cannot be sacred.">
   
   It says in the Bible that man was made in the image of God. There is a sacred connection.
   
   <."… evolutionary success equates to longevity and mankind is not very successful there.">
   
   We used to live longer, but God cut our life expectancies short.
   
   Sorry, but at some point you just have to rely on the oldest science book in the world.
   I guess I have pretty much killed this thread.
   Oh well.
   
   TWISI and all that.

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, and it says there was a flood covering the earth and that a talking snake convinced Eve to sin.  Your point?

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6. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   ...that heap of lungs and toes...and orbits and brains, livers, kidneys, and thymuses and other HUMAN tissues needed for research or whatever.
   Cuz gee, she didn't mean to conceive that night she and the guy from the bar were hot and heavy. And for all we know that guy was an alien!

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