PhoenixV's question : Is God Possible ?

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  1. Prakash RnP profile image55
    Prakash RnPposted 22 months ago

    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13259694_f520.jpg
    As far as I know, there exist so many Gods ( conceptual ). We can classify them as unscientific Gods and scientific Gods. Of course, the unscientific Gods, because they happen to be unscientific, can't be ' possible '. Then we're left with scientific Gods alone. But then again all these Gods fall into two basic categories: ( 1 ) the Einsteinian God and the Newtonian God. The problem is there exist irreconcilable contradictions between them. Claiming that the Einsteinian God is ' possible ' adds up to claiming that the Newtonian God is not ' possible '. Which side— Einstein's or Newton's— should we side with then ? That which makes our problem far more complicated is the fact that none of the two great figures of science cared to write a thesis on God. And scientific logic supports neither Gods.
    [ photo source & attribution : By Maulaff (Own work) [CC BY-SA 3.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0)], via Wikimedia Commons ( page URL: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File … sion_8.jpg ) ]

    1. Julie Nou profile image57
      Julie Nouposted 22 months agoin reply to this

      In the nutshell: there is no such thing as scientific logic.  There is a philosophical logic that guides a scientist to advance a hypothesis.  But in science hypothesis is nothing if it is not supported by the evidence.  The scientific evidence acquired by using scientific method.  If idea can not be proven by scientific method, then it is not a scientific hypothesis, it is a philosophical question at most. 

      As for placing Einsteinian vs Newtonian  gods, I don't really get it.  Newton have published many theological books on God and their nature.  To the specialists Einstein also have been known to think about the nature of God.  That is how his principles of energy have to being.

      1. Prakash RnP profile image55
        Prakash RnPposted 22 months agoin reply to this

        The expression ' scientific logic ' is in line with expressions like ' commercial logic ', ' economic logic ', etc and used to mean  the scientific line of thought or reasoning. It can also be taken to mean a set of arguments or reasons based on science or scientific data. An argument or idea may be unscientific. For example, the Newtonian ' First Impulse ' that Newton attributed to the biblical God the Father or the argument that because Einstein believed in God, it follows that the belief in God or gods is scientific is unscientific.
        I don't think scientists need study or be versed in ' philosophical logic ' before starting scientific work or in order to achieve success in their scientific pursuits. They've got to study science subjects such as physics, chemistry, maths, medicines, etc before starting the career in science. I don't want to say the philosophical logic is in itself wrong or unscientific, or what appears an instance of scientific logic today may not prove unscientific someday. But I must point to the fact that the distinction between philosophy and science or between a philosopher and a scientist is too clear to be missed. As I see it, a philosopher without the knowledge of science is like a man groping around in the pitch-dark night. In this connection, I feel I should point to the degree known as PhD that is conferred to men of science as the recognition of their contributions to science. I view the PhD ( in full, Doctor of Philosophy ) as a ridiculous contradiction in terms.
        I'd define a ' scientific hypothesis ' as a hypothesis based on scientific logic. Nevertheless, a scientific hypothesis may prove wrong and be rejected outright or accepted with due modification.
        By ' the Einsteinian God ', I mean Einstein's view of God, and by ' the Newtonian God ' Newton's view of God. They're as different as Heaven and Hell are. While Newton identified his God with the biblical God the Creator, Einstein didn't believe God created anything in the universe. This is one instance of glaring contradictions existing between the two concepts of God the two great men of science used to cherish.
        Of course you don't suggest that Einstein's discovery of the mass-energy equivalence equation ( i.e. E= mc.c ) has got a lot or something to do with his view of God, do you ?

        1. Julie Nou profile image57
          Julie Nouposted 22 months agoin reply to this

          Let me disappoint you on Einstein.  This E=mc^2 equation stems directly from his Jewish thinking about nature of God.  If you start thinking of God as Light, then darkness is absence of God.  Thus, there is no negative energy.  There is absolute Zero in terms of temperature.  So according to Einstein, the Evil is absence of Good. 

          There is much more to discuss on the topic.  Since this particular equation works against dialectical materialism.  In dialectical materialism you need two opposite forces to act on something.  It is like Good and Evil need to constantly work against each other.

          1. Prakash RnP profile image55
            Prakash RnPposted 22 months agoin reply to this

            It is really news to me that ' E=mc^2 equation stems directly from [ Einstein's ] Jewish thinking about nature of God. '
            If you start thinking of God as darkness, then light is absence of God.  Thus, I'm afraid, following your line of reasoning, you have to arrive at the conclusion that there happens to be no positive energy.
            To see ' the Evil ' as ' the absence of Good ', do we really need to study Einstein ?
            By the dialectical materialism, as far as I know, the universe is the unity and struggle of opposites. Matter and antimatter, flowering plants and non-flowering plants, luminous bodies ( e.g. stars ) and nonluminous bodies ( e.g. planets ), cold-blooded animals and warm-blooded animals, flying creatures and nonflying creatures, et cetera, et cetera, so many things including light and darkness as well as the good and the evil testify to the truth of dialectical materialism, don't they ?

            1. Julie Nou profile image57
              Julie Nouposted 22 months agoin reply to this

              Go ahead and follow the line of reasoning you talking about.  But first you need to prove to me that there is no Energy, only negative energy.  And support with facts that there is only Evil, no good.

  2. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 22 months ago

    I'm familiar with Einstein's musings not Newton's.

    I will say God is not only possible, but probable. We each catch a glimpse but other than that small grace we are left to speculate. The universe consists of infinite variety which is, at the moment, 99.999% (and then some) unknowable. That is the nature of God, also. Contradictory ideas and beliefs are simply a reflection of these facts, or this belief. We each must take what we know and move forward with that, leaving room for others to do the same and giving them the same respect we would like for ourselves on that journey since so much of our belief is mired in  speculation.

  3. Julie Nou profile image57
    Julie Nouposted 22 months ago

    Newton did not invent "clock work universe", as the author makes you to believe.

    On contrary, if one reads Principia carefully you would see clear causation and thus God the Creator theme through out the writings.   Such is a quote:  " To make this system therefore with all its motions, required a Cause which understood and compared together the quantities in the several bodies of the Sun and Planets and the gravitating powers resulting from thence ........ and to compare and adjust all these things together in so great a variety of bodies argues that cause to be not blind and fortuitous, but very well skilled in Mechanics and Geometry."  You can start learning more about it here:
    https://isaacnewtonstheology.files.word … ncipia.pdf

  4. PhoenixV profile image65
    PhoenixVposted 22 months ago

    The reason I asked is specifically regarding the seemingly achilles heel to ontological arguments eg anselm, godel etc..ie the arguments are sound if it can be shown God is possible And whether Descartes or Leibniz overcame this etc was what I was looking for.

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
    Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months ago

    "God" is manifesting everywhere all the time. "God" is visible and invisible. God is the essence of each soul and being and molecule, atom, nucleus, system, solar system, etc. ... in creation and beyond.
    Surely

    1. lovetherain profile image81
      lovetherainposted 22 months agoin reply to this

      What does God look like?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
        Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

        Like the grass and the trees ...
        and the rain smile

        1. lovetherain profile image81
          lovetherainposted 22 months agoin reply to this

          That's nature. Not God.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
            Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

            Nature is "God."
            Do you know anything about a tree? Down to its cells, it was created before there was anything to evolve.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
              Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

              In you, "God" looks like you.

            2. lovetherain profile image81
              lovetherainposted 22 months agoin reply to this

              The evolution of plants is well understood.

              Do things only look like they evolved?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
                Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

                The process of evolution, (which is apparent,) is understood, (observable) but not the prompting (unobservable).
                Is it possible there is an immaterial force DETERMINED to live in a material world?

                Determine
                1 cause (something) to occur in a particular way; be the decisive factor in:

                1. lovetherain profile image81
                  lovetherainposted 22 months agoin reply to this

                  "The process of evolution, (which is apparent,) is understood, (observable) but not the prompting (unobservable)."

                  What prompting?

                  "Is it possible there is an immaterial force DETERMINED to live in a material world?"

                  Why make up something when there is no need?

                  Nature just is. It needs no God to make things work.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

                    No there is a cause and to not think so is unscientific.

          2. Live to Learn profile image79
            Live to Learnposted 22 months agoin reply to this

            It is said that God is in all things.

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
    Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months ago

    Science explores "God."

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
    Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months ago

    I am evidence of God. Am I possible?????

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
      Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

      A child asked me, Where did the sky come from. I told him: " 'God'." Where did the grass come from, "'God'," I said.
      "Does God love us?"
      "More than you know," I said.
      A friend of mine acted like I was a criminal after I told her about the conversation.

      1. lovetherain profile image81
        lovetherainposted 22 months agoin reply to this

        Do you teach in Public schools? Then yes, you are a criminal. Have you heard of separation of church and state?

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
          Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

          Have you heard of being a human being? I am not supposed to touch a child in school either, but the other day a very troubled child was having a temper tantrum. The teacher I was assisting had been instructed to follow the child but not touch him. Guess what? I went up and hugged the child and he completely calmed down. Situation solved.
          Oh well.

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
    Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months ago

    Atheists are not very scientific. They do not think scientifically.

  9. profile image56
    Nomthi Mazibukoposted 22 months ago

    Yep...without a doubt the Living God is possible due to this cosmos that's been standing for decades still has not fallen apart neither fallen on us/the earth. The grass on the fields still grows without any human watering it whilst the rain falls without any help from humans. Animals even though they remain animals...they do not rape each other whereas humans rape etc....Evidence that God exists!!!

    1. lovetherain profile image81
      lovetherainposted 22 months agoin reply to this

      Animals rape each other all the time.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
        Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months agoin reply to this

        its love. unsophisticated and uncivilized. we are supposed to be sophisticated and civilized, but some humans are still like animals. Ruled by hormones and urges. We have minds and have learned be empathetic and reasonable.

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image79
    Kathryn L Hillposted 22 months ago

    Of course, God is possible. And we have to live with this awareness. We have to work with the laws of Nature with reverence. And not ignore them. We have to acknowledge each other. And not ignore each other. Or there will be consequences.
    Belief in the Causer of all things allows us to behold all things in the right perspective.
    After all, we did not invent the world and it does not revolve around US.
    (Otherwise, we might think so ... which is delusional.)

 
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