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Consciousness

  1. lovetherain profile image58
    lovetherainposted 4 months ago

    Let's talk about consciousness.

    How did it come about? Did it "emerge" from our brains? Do all animals with brains have consciousness?

    Is the brain just a "receiver" of consciousness, and consciousness is fundamental?

    1. ptosis profile image76
      ptosisposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      A lot of people still believe that there is a mind-body division and that a soul is what your consciousness is a part of. So going to get into an argument about if people have souls  and do animal have souls.

      Most people used to think the consciousness was in the heart, now it the brain, both are wrong. Brain extends throughout your body via nerves and so it's not always the brain who is directing everything, it's a two-way communication.

      There are about 100 million neurons in your gut - the same size as a cat's brain that controls you appetite. This brain cannot speak but perhaps it influences decisions other than eating that we may not aware of. Sociopathic serial killers know how to tap into this and marketers try to by selling an idea and not a product. Think of those commercials where you have no idea what they are trying to sell.  That would be a failure on the commercial or you are not the targeted demographic.
      https://hubpages.com/health/Neuroscience-Introduction

      In the book “Who's in Charge?”, author Michael Gazzaniga says that our brain's parallel processing is like a committee, there is no head honcho. Unlike in the movie “The Matrix”, there is no Architect - only the Interpreter. Our brains are a convention of contending delegates from which our self identity emerges greater that the sum of individual parts. - https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/ChaosFreeWill

      https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/7134022_f520.jpg

    2. Live to Learn profile image81
      Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      All life has consciousness, I think. At least to the extent of having a sense of being. But, self conscious? I think that separates us from a great many life forms, not all. I think self awareness separates us from most of the rest which are left.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        Can't be - a virus is not conscious of anything at all.  Any action is simple reaction, no different than Hydrogen being attracted to Oxygen.

        But what about an amoeba?  Does it have a sense of being?  Or a starfish - starfish have no brain, so can it be conscious?  A clam, or plants?   Although they react to stimuli, it does seem more in the area of that molecular attraction between hydrogen and oxygen.

        A purely philosophical discussion, for we don't talk to starfish very well.  Or to trees, to find out if they are conscious.

        1. Live to Learn profile image81
          Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          Call me crazy, but since I think even a rock has some sense of being then I suppose the answer to all of your questions would be....yes.

          1. psycheskinner profile image80
            psycheskinnerposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Then turning a bog rock into gravel must be very confusing for it.

            1. Live to Learn profile image81
              Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

              I didn't say it had anything more than a sense of being. I would doubt if it extended to more than that. I would assume that turning a bog rock into gravel would result in anything more than a bunch of rocks having a simple sense of being. Which wouldn't entail confusion, pain or anything else; I would think.

              1. psycheskinner profile image80
                psycheskinnerposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                I think a sense of being implies a sense of bodily integrity--which would make insults to bodily integrity disturbing.

                1. Live to Learn profile image81
                  Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  I see your point. However, we know so little at the moment about so much that I'm not quite ready to write it off. I think a sense of place within reality could simply be that. No more, no less. It wouldn't have to involve an 'I am' realization. I know it sounds odd and I am poorly explaining my position but if we are stardust ourselves then whatever process began the march to the existence of us implies, to me, some sense of something. No matter how minute.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                    It comes down to this:

                                Did  **** I ****  create  M y s e l f ?

          2. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            OK  - you're crazy! big_smile

            Can't go with you here, LtL.  Consciousness requires a flow of electrons along nervous tissue, or perhaps some other pre-defined route.  All that we know of requires sensory apparatus of some sort or there is no reason for it.  It requires the ability to respond somehow to those thoughts or stimuli, something beyond mere chemistry.  A rock has none of those.

            1. Live to Learn profile image81
              Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

              Did you just call me crazy?????

              smile

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                Hey!  You said to! big_smile

    3. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      I've written several articles on this topic.  In part it is part of my spiritual work to broaden the levels of inner consciousness with the help of physics, cosmology and meditation.  There is no definition for what consciousness is, not in science, nor can it really be pinpointed to a single sentence in theology. 
      I like the model derived by Steiner and used by Sagan in reference to Subtle Bodies.
      Regardless of the limitations with the definition, many would do well to broaden it in lieu of continually sticking to the known.  To broaden consciousness you need to let go of the rational so that new forms can be seen, mapped, fathomed and then used so they too can become rational. 
      big_smile  Expanding the mind takes courage big_smile

      1. lovetherain profile image58
        lovetherainposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        I have expanded my consciousness, and it has wreaked havoc on my life fro the last six years. it is not all love and bliss,

        1. Jewels profile image81
          Jewelsposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          It certainly is not bliss, in the beginning.  I've been at it for 20 years now.  As Sri Yukteswar says, the mind is the hardest battlefield of all.  All other battles pale into insignificance in comparison.  I can now say it is paying great dividends.

          1. lovetherain profile image58
            lovetherainposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            That's great. Are your chakras open?

            1. Jewels profile image81
              Jewelsposted 4 months ago in reply to this

              I don't use that term ordinarily, but yes.  It's always a case of due diligence and practice is always handy smile

              1. lovetherain profile image58
                lovetherainposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                What term do you use? I don't think I have heard of a different term for chakras.

                1. Jewels profile image81
                  Jewelsposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  The work I've done goes further into the structures within what are termed the charkras.  It's not enough to just open them, but to go further into what is there and what is available, this goes for all of them.  This helps with broadening of vision and also gives the ability to 'climb' further into broader  states with a knowledge of what is there.  The names differ depending on what is being worked on or activated.
                  What work have you done?  What tradition are you aligned to?

                  1. lovetherain profile image58
                    lovetherainposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                    None. I started with just meditation and pranayama. Now the energy I experience in my body, spine and chakras seems to be out of my control. I haven't meditated for months, but the energy and altered states of consciousness don't stop.

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    I am a unit of divine consciousness/awareness and ever new joy.
    I am an ageless soul in a an aging body.
    Why does the body age?
    Because we do not know the essence of our bodies or work with the essence based on the facts of how it operates as designed by Essence.

    Essence
    quintessence, soul, spirit, nature; core, heart, crux, nucleus, substance; principle, fundamental quality, sum and substance, warp and woof, reality, actuality; nitty-gritty.

    1. jacharless profile image79
      jacharlessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      And, the simple fact "they" ignored this speaks volumes.

      1. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        Since I've seen evidence from your posts that you believe we are meant to simply live forever in these bodies I can understand why that post would warm your heart. I personally ignored it because even though I agree we are ageless in aging bodies I don't agree that we have the means by which to understand 'Essence' and therefor live forever (primarily because I don't think we were meant to) nor do I think there is evidence of individual souls (except in rare cases). And, I'm happy with that.

        1. psycheskinner profile image80
          psycheskinnerposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          I ignored it because there is no way to engage with it. A person with no doubt about their position has nothing to discuss.

        2. jacharless profile image79
          jacharlessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          Well, if humans were not meant to live forever, why would we be given consciousness? Makes very little sense to provide such a wondrous and powerful thing, only to snatch it away after a few short stays around that yellow ball of colliding hydrogen. No other form of life, as we know them, has consciousness (free will, etc) regardless of how much or little of the cortex is used. And let's not even consider this thing called imagination.

          As someone mentioned earlier, a starfish has no brain, yet it -and every other item on this planet, in every form and size, responds to electrical stimuli or impulse. Interestingly, so do these machines we are using to communicate.

          Being an architect for digital experiences, can attest very well to the similarities. Using raw information -code/digital genetics- can literally create environments filled with colors, sounds, images, shapes, sizes, visible and invisible events. Of those objects, I can animate some and not the others in one, two or even three dimensional form. Still, all the objects within the "page" respond to or are effected by the collective environment or ecosystem. What the user sees are products of an environment I designed. Even going so far as to have the ability to create multiple environments that interact inside or outside of the users view, as well as objects.

          Parallel the aforementioned to this organic environment or ecosystem we exist within. All the items within are products of something else, or someone else. All visible and invisible events effect the entire ecosystem, from a single ultra subatomic frequency to a mass collection of them forming Sagarmatha or the ocean. Some define it as natural sentience others collective instinct.

          Yet, of all the many fascinating objects in this amazing ecosystem, only one appears aware of, uniquely interested in the system itself, objects inside & out, as well as the purpose "of it all" -- humans. In my opinion, that makes man far more intrinsically "divine" than they believe. And, by their own admission of awareness, begs the question as to its purpose.

          Neither lion nor a flea will migrate from Africa to Siberia to simply marvel at the snow falling beneath the Northern Lights, feel the crisp of cold air or inhale the scent of birch. Or venture to the shore just to feel the combination of warm grains of sand and cool salt-water on their toes. No, they desire only to eat, sleep and procreate. Ironically, many humans prefer to do the same -with emphasis on activities leading up to the later. Ha!

          Surely, there is much evidence showing dinosaurs existed, yet it does not solidify proof of evolution or natural selection. Likewise, there is unequivocal evidence man has existed for over 10,000 years - eaten, slept, procreated and died. Yet that evidence does not negate, in any manner whatsoever, that man should die. If fact, the mere existence of awareness/consciousness shows a far greater purpose -individually and collectively- than is currently being experienced. The sobering reality is man has not yet come to terms with this, and the various attempts made, by his own reasoning (scientific or sensational), have resulted in, well, less than success. Therefore, his approach must change.

          The Essence or awareness he possesses is not there by chance or accident nor fate. Like everything in existence, it has a purpose. To borrow a line from a popular film, "Every program without purpose is deleted from the system.". Of course, I am not suggesting entheism or even pantheism -or any ism for that matter. What I am suggesting is humanity has two options: continue to believe the current manner, in whichever expression is preferred (pro, con or neutral) and accept his eventually annihilation, as evidenced by the current state of the planet, or do something different. He must allow himself to be consumed by the purpose, by the Awareness/Essence itself and let it manifest. It was genetically programmed in him to been seen. Else, why does he have it -and how did he get it? If you prefer to use the term Creator in place of Consciousness or Awareness, Essence, so be it. Perhaps it is overdue that man experience Creator instead of trying to create the experience, through the natural or artificial approaches currently applied by his own reasoning and definition of existence.

          As mentioned in another post: man was not animated at the beginning where he would have to go through all the pains of creation. He was animated after it was all prepared. Now, adding in awareness fuels the notion of a greater purpose than to live-die. There is a genuine experience he is missing. And, in my opinion alone perhaps, that missing is the cause of all his grief, fear, angst, contempt, rage, confusion, ad infinitum adjectives and even relentless drive and passion to be more than just a few spins around the sun; more than a here-and-gone forever; more than a talking monkey, a potted plant -outlived by a teenage sea turtle...

          1. Live to Learn profile image81
            Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Were we given consciousness? I disagree. I see this life form as uniquely designed to house and utilize consciousness. Nor do I see it being ‘snatched’ away. It simply moves on. Where, or how, is unknown but it is apparent that it moves on.

            Think of it this way. As you say, you create digital experiences. I say the ‘we’ that is the essence of who we are is party to the creation of this material experience. We are a part of God as are all things in the knowable and unknowable parts of the universe. It doesn’t matter what form, what shape, all things are a part of God. You say all things are a part of someone or something else. I say we are all that something or someone else no matter how minute of a part of it. So, all objects within the ‘page’ of existence as we know it are effected by the collective environment or ecosystem that life is continually creating. Even though the invisible part of existence does effect this visible part of existence in ways we do not understand we do also in ways we do not yet completely understand.

            Although I see all of existence as divine; I agree with you that we are intrinsically ‘divine’ in a unique way. However, I see our ‘divinity’ only as the biological form which was designed to allow us to view the world uniquely and appreciate it uniquely.

            I do agree that collectively we could experience a higher awareness. I think teachings by Jesus point in that direction. But, it does not point toward eternal existence in these bodies. I suppose with higher awareness should the essence of who we are make that choice it would be possible but I honestly don’t see that as the end game here.

            You say that man’s own reasoning (scientific and sensational) have resulted in less than success.  But, I say the reason for the less than success we have experienced is primarily because of the fact that the essence of what we are chooses, on a different level, not to allow this. Perhaps, it isn’t really success?

            And, certainly the essence has a purpose as does all of existence. But, I do believe that each of us is hoping to achieve an insular experience. To rise above creation as we know it instead of attempting to immerse ourselves in creation. We hope to see it, rather than to be it. Which is not unreasonable considering that our essence has chosen to briefly exist within this biological form for whatever purpose. We are islands within the sea of life and we are islands for a purpose but, when everything is said and done, I think we are an integral part of Creator (as you call it) and we will be a part of that once again once our biological lives have ended.

            But, in the end, we are only unique because of the biological form we inhabit. The essence of who and what we are is the same essence of all of existence. We are no more divine than an amoeba. We simply have the ability to understand our divinity where it doesn’t.

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    yes all animals with brains have individual consciousnesses. Animals have limited abilities but have keen awarenesses based on their brains' ways of adapting for survival.
      For Instance: Dogs, cats and birds have amazing abilities to perceive sounds from far away and are therefore more aware of things happening, such as dangers approaching or meals scurrying by, in the distance than we are.
    Do schools of fish who swim as a unit have a common unified brain function/awareness?

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    "Introspective self examination can negate negative effects of outside influences during our upbringing."
      I think there needs to be a branch to help us do this!!!!!   I suppose its called religion?
        Yes???
    If so, religion needs to step up to the plate a little better.

    1. Live to Learn profile image81
      Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      I think religion started me on my journey to the point I am at now but I don't think 'religion' could have brought me here. Not organized religion. I don't think that is the end goal of the institution.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        so what IS a good end goal of religion?

        1. Live to Learn profile image81
          Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          I think the end goal of organized religion is conformity of thought, power politically and/or, of course, raking in the big bucks.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Yes, but what was it ORIGINALLY for?
            Self-empowerment.
            What a long tangled web religion has created over the centuries !!!!

          2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            crowd control

            1. Live to Learn profile image81
              Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

              I agree, in theory, but I will say that some need to be controlled and religion is a necessary part of society.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                lower end of the higher ages

                1. Live to Learn profile image81
                  Live to Learnposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  Lost me on that one.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                    Do you sense that we are headed for a time of greater enlightenment? or are we (society) doomed to always require/need ways to control the ignorant masses who want, want and want what they want and get, get and get what they want regardless of how the getting affects themselves and others?

    2. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      The branch to help with this is called Therapy (my profession actually).

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    I would say a good end goal is self-empowerment toward freedom. Freedom rightly understood.

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    when Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is found within I believe he was advocating exactly what I said: Self-empowerment. Yay, Jesus.
    oops wrong thread

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    "Diminish means to make smaller or lesser. If you cover a lightbulb with a dark lamp shade, the light from the lamp will diminish." D

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    Religion was supposed to help us increase our consciousness. Instead it  Edit: (Organized Religion) does something else.

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    Higher consciousness would contribute to self-control to avoid bad karma / negative consequences. If Jesus came to bring about higher consciousness, why was He persecuted? If He came to America today would We the People persecute him?

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    This is why one should not take LSD. It opens areas of the mind up before the individual is ready. One needs to be careful with one's own psyche and one should work carefully with one's own will.  Perhaps God will help us and we need to be open to God's guidance in this matter. Who is God? He will make Himself known. He is love. He is reason. He is in us and He is without us. God is beyond our ability to intellectualize about it.

  11. Jewels profile image81
    Jewelsposted 4 months ago

    Openings.  Stay grounded and see where it takes you.

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 months ago

    I don't know what you guys are talking about. Maybe someday I will, but right now I get insights of what is true and feelings of peace and happiness, (by meditating). Is that enough ...
    or is there more?

    How does one "stay grounded" ?

    1. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      It is a misunderstood concept.  Be present.  Be aware when you are incessantly in the mind (constant thinking) - that is not being present.  Be IN the body and be consciously aware of it and know when you are being pulled out by thoughts.  A good way of knowing is when you are speaking to someone - give them 100% of your attention without being swayed by thoughts or distracted by noises or peripheral scenes.

 
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