Consciousness

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   lovetherainposted 7 years ago

   Let's talk about consciousness.
   
   How did it come about? Did it "emerge" from our brains? Do all animals with brains have consciousness?
   
   Is the brain just a "receiver" of consciousness, and consciousness is fundamental?

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      ptosisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      A lot of people still believe that there is a mind-body division and that a soul is what your consciousness is a part of. So going to get into an argument about if people have souls  and do animal have souls.
      
      Most people used to think the consciousness was in the heart, now it the brain, both are wrong. Brain extends throughout your body via nerves and so it's not always the brain who is directing everything, it's a two-way communication.
      
      There are about 100 million neurons in your gut - the same size as a cat's brain that controls you appetite. This brain cannot speak but perhaps it influences decisions other than eating that we may not aware of. Sociopathic serial killers know how to tap into this and marketers try to by selling an idea and not a product. Think of those commercials where you have no idea what they are trying to sell.  That would be a failure on the commercial or you are not the targeted demographic.
      https://hubpages.com/health/Neuroscience-Introduction
      
      In the book “Who's in Charge?”, author Michael Gazzaniga says that our brain's parallel processing is like a committee, there is no head honcho. Unlike in the movie “The Matrix”, there is no Architect - only the Interpreter. Our brains are a convention of contending delegates from which our self identity emerges greater that the sum of individual parts. - https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/ChaosFreeWill
      
      

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      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      All life has consciousness, I think. At least to the extent of having a sense of being. But, self conscious? I think that separates us from a great many life forms, not all. I think self awareness separates us from most of the rest which are left.

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         wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Can't be - a virus is not conscious of anything at all.  Any action is simple reaction, no different than Hydrogen being attracted to Oxygen.
         
         But what about an amoeba?  Does it have a sense of being?  Or a starfish - starfish have no brain, so can it be conscious?  A clam, or plants?   Although they react to stimuli, it does seem more in the area of that molecular attraction between hydrogen and oxygen.
         
         A purely philosophical discussion, for we don't talk to starfish very well.  Or to trees, to find out if they are conscious.

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            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Call me crazy, but since I think even a rock has some sense of being then I suppose the answer to all of your questions would be....yes.

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               psycheskinnerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Then turning a bog rock into gravel must be very confusing for it.

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                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't say it had anything more than a sense of being. I would doubt if it extended to more than that. I would assume that turning a bog rock into gravel would result in anything more than a bunch of rocks having a simple sense of being. Which wouldn't entail confusion, pain or anything else; I would think.

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                     psycheskinnerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     I think a sense of being implies a sense of bodily integrity--which would make insults to bodily integrity disturbing.

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                        Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        I see your point. However, we know so little at the moment about so much that I'm not quite ready to write it off. I think a sense of place within reality could simply be that. No more, no less. It wouldn't have to involve an 'I am' realization. I know it sounds odd and I am poorly explaining my position but if we are stardust ourselves then whatever process began the march to the existence of us implies, to me, some sense of something. No matter how minute.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           It comes down to this:
                           
                                       Did  **** I ****  create  M y s e l f ?

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                              Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              I think, as adults, we do have the ability to 'create' ourselves. Introspective self examination can negate negative effects of outside influences during our upbringing. It can minimize many traits we inherited, personality wise.
                              
                              I'm a firm believer that the body is little more than a biological vehicle for the eternal energy which drives it.  So in that sense, also, we  create ourselves.

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                                 Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 If each soul is responsible for itself on earth and beyond, and we can't / shouldn't / mustn't say, "Well God invented me, HE has to deal with me, fix me, help me. Its all HIS fault!!!" I mean if we have only ourselves to blame, then we have ALL THE POWER from START TO FINISH!
                                   Now this idea is very awesome and freeing!
                                 
                                 No one owns you.
                                 No one has power over you.
                                 No one can restrict you.
                                 No one can put you down or judge you or sway your own opinion of yourself via teachers, bosses, institutions and the like.

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                                    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    <No one can put you down or judge you or sway your own opinion of yourself via teachers, bosses, institutions and the like.>
                                    also via parents

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                                    lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    No one has power over you.
                                    No one can restrict you.
                                    No one can put you down or judge you or sway your own opinion of yourself via teachers, bosses, institutions and the like.
                                    
                                    > except of course, people do all the time.
                                    
                                    You are living in a fantasy world.

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                                       Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                       If I LET them I am living in a fantasy world. If I do NOT let them, I am living according to REALITY.
                                       You mentioned elsewhere you fight everyday to be guided by your own will. Its like that.
                                         you said,
                                       " I fight every day to assert my free will."

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                                          lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                          That doesn't mean other people have zero control over me.
                                          
                                          For instance, I will go to jail for breaking certain laws. I didn't make those laws.

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                                             Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                             No, you could certainly break any law you so chose. You just don't, to avoid the consequences. Your will.

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                                                lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                                No, I would be in JAIL. like I said. Where I would have less freedom than if I wasn't.

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               wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               OK  - you're crazy!
               
               Can't go with you here, LtL.  Consciousness requires a flow of electrons along nervous tissue, or perhaps some other pre-defined route.  All that we know of requires sensory apparatus of some sort or there is no reason for it.  It requires the ability to respond somehow to those thoughts or stimuli, something beyond mere chemistry.  A rock has none of those.

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                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Did you just call me crazy?????
                  
                  

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                     wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Hey!  You said to!

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      Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I've written several articles on this topic.  In part it is part of my spiritual work to broaden the levels of inner consciousness with the help of physics, cosmology and meditation.  There is no definition for what consciousness is, not in science, nor can it really be pinpointed to a single sentence in theology. 
      I like the model derived by Steiner and used by Sagan in reference to Subtle Bodies.
      Regardless of the limitations with the definition, many would do well to broaden it in lieu of continually sticking to the known.  To broaden consciousness you need to let go of the rational so that new forms can be seen, mapped, fathomed and then used so they too can become rational. 
        Expanding the mind takes courage

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         lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I have expanded my consciousness, and it has wreaked havoc on my life fro the last six years. it is not all love and bliss,

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            Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            It certainly is not bliss, in the beginning.  I've been at it for 20 years now.  As Sri Yukteswar says, the mind is the hardest battlefield of all.  All other battles pale into insignificance in comparison.  I can now say it is paying great dividends.

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               lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               That's great. Are your chakras open?

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                  Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't use that term ordinarily, but yes.  It's always a case of due diligence and practice is always handy

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                     lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     What term do you use? I don't think I have heard of a different term for chakras.

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                        Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        The work I've done goes further into the structures within what are termed the charkras.  It's not enough to just open them, but to go further into what is there and what is available, this goes for all of them.  This helps with broadening of vision and also gives the ability to 'climb' further into broader  states with a knowledge of what is there.  The names differ depending on what is being worked on or activated.
                        What work have you done?  What tradition are you aligned to?

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                           lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           None. I started with just meditation and pranayama. Now the energy I experience in my body, spine and chakras seems to be out of my control. I haven't meditated for months, but the energy and altered states of consciousness don't stop.

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                              Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              The genie is out of the bottle.  Time to stabilise the experiences.  Stay centered, be present with it and see what happens.

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                                 lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 Have you experienced something like this? Or something similar, but was more stable for you?

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                                    Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    Yes, I had training and am part of a school of meditation.  If you want to discuss your experiences  I'm happy to do this personally rather than via Hubpages.  I have contact details on my profile, via FB where it's much easier and quicker to respond.

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                                       lovetherainposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                       I would like to, unfortunately I don't have facebook

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   I am a unit of divine consciousness/awareness and ever new joy.
   I am an ageless soul in a an aging body.
   Why does the body age?
   Because we do not know the essence of our bodies or work with the essence based on the facts of how it operates as designed by Essence.
   
   Essence
   quintessence, soul, spirit, nature; core, heart, crux, nucleus, substance; principle, fundamental quality, sum and substance, warp and woof, reality, actuality; nitty-gritty.

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      jacharlessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And, the simple fact "they" ignored this speaks volumes.

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         Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Since I've seen evidence from your posts that you believe we are meant to simply live forever in these bodies I can understand why that post would warm your heart. I personally ignored it because even though I agree we are ageless in aging bodies I don't agree that we have the means by which to understand 'Essence' and therefor live forever (primarily because I don't think we were meant to) nor do I think there is evidence of individual souls (except in rare cases). And, I'm happy with that.

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            psycheskinnerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I ignored it because there is no way to engage with it. A person with no doubt about their position has nothing to discuss.

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            jacharlessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Well, if humans were not meant to live forever, why would we be given consciousness? Makes very little sense to provide such a wondrous and powerful thing, only to snatch it away after a few short stays around that yellow ball of colliding hydrogen. No other form of life, as we know them, has consciousness (free will, etc) regardless of how much or little of the cortex is used. And let's not even consider this thing called imagination.
            
            As someone mentioned earlier, a starfish has no brain, yet it -and every other item on this planet, in every form and size, responds to electrical stimuli or impulse. Interestingly, so do these machines we are using to communicate.
            
            Being an architect for digital experiences, can attest very well to the similarities. Using raw information -code/digital genetics- can literally create environments filled with colors, sounds, images, shapes, sizes, visible and invisible events. Of those objects, I can animate some and not the others in one, two or even three dimensional form. Still, all the objects within the "page" respond to or are effected by the collective environment or ecosystem. What the user sees are products of an environment I designed. Even going so far as to have the ability to create multiple environments that interact inside or outside of the users view, as well as objects.
            
            Parallel the aforementioned to this organic environment or ecosystem we exist within. All the items within are products of something else, or someone else. All visible and invisible events effect the entire ecosystem, from a single ultra subatomic frequency to a mass collection of them forming Sagarmatha or the ocean. Some define it as natural sentience others collective instinct.
            
            Yet, of all the many fascinating objects in this amazing ecosystem, only one appears aware of, uniquely interested in the system itself, objects inside & out, as well as the purpose "of it all" -- humans. In my opinion, that makes man far more intrinsically "divine" than they believe. And, by their own admission of awareness, begs the question as to its purpose.
            
            Neither lion nor a flea will migrate from Africa to Siberia to simply marvel at the snow falling beneath the Northern Lights, feel the crisp of cold air or inhale the scent of birch. Or venture to the shore just to feel the combination of warm grains of sand and cool salt-water on their toes. No, they desire only to eat, sleep and procreate. Ironically, many humans prefer to do the same -with emphasis on activities leading up to the later. Ha!
            
            Surely, there is much evidence showing dinosaurs existed, yet it does not solidify proof of evolution or natural selection. Likewise, there is unequivocal evidence man has existed for over 10,000 years - eaten, slept, procreated and died. Yet that evidence does not negate, in any manner whatsoever, that man should die. If fact, the mere existence of awareness/consciousness shows a far greater purpose -individually and collectively- than is currently being experienced. The sobering reality is man has not yet come to terms with this, and the various attempts made, by his own reasoning (scientific or sensational), have resulted in, well, less than success. Therefore, his approach must change.
            
            The Essence or awareness he possesses is not there by chance or accident nor fate. Like everything in existence, it has a purpose. To borrow a line from a popular film, "Every program without purpose is deleted from the system.". Of course, I am not suggesting entheism or even pantheism -or any ism for that matter. What I am suggesting is humanity has two options: continue to believe the current manner, in whichever expression is preferred (pro, con or neutral) and accept his eventually annihilation, as evidenced by the current state of the planet, or do something different. He must allow himself to be consumed by the purpose, by the Awareness/Essence itself and let it manifest. It was genetically programmed in him to been seen. Else, why does he have it -and how did he get it? If you prefer to use the term Creator in place of Consciousness or Awareness, Essence, so be it. Perhaps it is overdue that man experience Creator instead of trying to create the experience, through the natural or artificial approaches currently applied by his own reasoning and definition of existence.
            
            As mentioned in another post: man was not animated at the beginning where he would have to go through all the pains of creation. He was animated after it was all prepared. Now, adding in awareness fuels the notion of a greater purpose than to live-die. There is a genuine experience he is missing. And, in my opinion alone perhaps, that missing is the cause of all his grief, fear, angst, contempt, rage, confusion, ad infinitum adjectives and even relentless drive and passion to be more than just a few spins around the sun; more than a here-and-gone forever; more than a talking monkey, a potted plant -outlived by a teenage sea turtle...

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               Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Were we given consciousness? I disagree. I see this life form as uniquely designed to house and utilize consciousness. Nor do I see it being ‘snatched’ away. It simply moves on. Where, or how, is unknown but it is apparent that it moves on.
               
               Think of it this way. As you say, you create digital experiences. I say the ‘we’ that is the essence of who we are is party to the creation of this material experience. We are a part of God as are all things in the knowable and unknowable parts of the universe. It doesn’t matter what form, what shape, all things are a part of God. You say all things are a part of someone or something else. I say we are all that something or someone else no matter how minute of a part of it. So, all objects within the ‘page’ of existence as we know it are effected by the collective environment or ecosystem that life is continually creating. Even though the invisible part of existence does effect this visible part of existence in ways we do not understand we do also in ways we do not yet completely understand.
               
               Although I see all of existence as divine; I agree with you that we are intrinsically ‘divine’ in a unique way. However, I see our ‘divinity’ only as the biological form which was designed to allow us to view the world uniquely and appreciate it uniquely.
               
               I do agree that collectively we could experience a higher awareness. I think teachings by Jesus point in that direction. But, it does not point toward eternal existence in these bodies. I suppose with higher awareness should the essence of who we are make that choice it would be possible but I honestly don’t see that as the end game here.
               
               You say that man’s own reasoning (scientific and sensational) have resulted in less than success.  But, I say the reason for the less than success we have experienced is primarily because of the fact that the essence of what we are chooses, on a different level, not to allow this. Perhaps, it isn’t really success?
               
               And, certainly the essence has a purpose as does all of existence. But, I do believe that each of us is hoping to achieve an insular experience. To rise above creation as we know it instead of attempting to immerse ourselves in creation. We hope to see it, rather than to be it. Which is not unreasonable considering that our essence has chosen to briefly exist within this biological form for whatever purpose. We are islands within the sea of life and we are islands for a purpose but, when everything is said and done, I think we are an integral part of Creator (as you call it) and we will be a part of that once again once our biological lives have ended.
               
               But, in the end, we are only unique because of the biological form we inhabit. The essence of who and what we are is the same essence of all of existence. We are no more divine than an amoeba. We simply have the ability to understand our divinity where it doesn’t.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   yes all animals with brains have individual consciousnesses. Animals have limited abilities but have keen awarenesses based on their brains' ways of adapting for survival.
     For Instance: Dogs, cats and birds have amazing abilities to perceive sounds from far away and are therefore more aware of things happening, such as dangers approaching or meals scurrying by, in the distance than we are.
   Do schools of fish who swim as a unit have a common unified brain function/awareness?

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   "Introspective self examination can negate negative effects of outside influences during our upbringing."
     I think there needs to be a branch to help us do this!!!!!   I suppose its called religion?
       Yes???
   If so, religion needs to step up to the plate a little better.

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      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think religion started me on my journey to the point I am at now but I don't think 'religion' could have brought me here. Not organized religion. I don't think that is the end goal of the institution.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         so what IS a good end goal of religion?

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            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I think the end goal of organized religion is conformity of thought, power politically and/or, of course, raking in the big bucks.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, but what was it ORIGINALLY for?
               Self-empowerment.
               What a long tangled web religion has created over the centuries !!!!

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               crowd control

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                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree, in theory, but I will say that some need to be controlled and religion is a necessary part of society.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     lower end of the higher ages

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                        Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Lost me on that one.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           Do you sense that we are headed for a time of greater enlightenment? or are we (society) doomed to always require/need ways to control the ignorant masses who want, want and want what they want and get, get and get what they want regardless of how the getting affects themselves and others?

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                              Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              I don't see us headed toward greater enlightenment and, if the system stays as it is, I suppose we are destined to continue to attempt to find a way to control the masses. But, if we worked toward a more equitable system where we didn't have 'ignorant masses' as you call them; we wouldn't have to think so hard about crowd control.  The system we have here in this country creates ignorant masses by not working toward finding ways for everyone to live to their highest potential.

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                                 Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 <... finding ways for everyone to live to their highest potential.>
                                 
                                 How would that look?

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      Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The branch to help with this is called Therapy (my profession actually).

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   I would say a good end goal is self-empowerment toward freedom. Freedom rightly understood.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   when Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is found within I believe he was advocating exactly what I said: Self-empowerment. Yay, Jesus.
   oops wrong thread

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   "Diminish means to make smaller or lesser. If you cover a lightbulb with a dark lamp shade, the light from the lamp will diminish." D

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   Religion was supposed to help us increase our consciousness. Instead it  Edit: (Organized Religion) does something else.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   Higher consciousness would contribute to self-control to avoid bad karma / negative consequences. If Jesus came to bring about higher consciousness, why was He persecuted? If He came to America today would We the People persecute him?

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    This is why one should not take LSD. It opens areas of the mind up before the individual is ready. One needs to be careful with one's own psyche and one should work carefully with one's own will.  Perhaps God will help us and we need to be open to God's guidance in this matter. Who is God? He will make Himself known. He is love. He is reason. He is in us and He is without us. God is beyond our ability to intellectualize about it.

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    Jewelsposted 7 years ago

    Openings.  Stay grounded and see where it takes you.

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    I don't know what you guys are talking about. Maybe someday I will, but right now I get insights of what is true and feelings of peace and happiness, (by meditating). Is that enough ...
    or is there more?
    
    How does one "stay grounded" ?

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       Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       It is a misunderstood concept.  Be present.  Be aware when you are incessantly in the mind (constant thinking) - that is not being present.  Be IN the body and be consciously aware of it and know when you are being pulled out by thoughts.  A good way of knowing is when you are speaking to someone - give them 100% of your attention without being swayed by thoughts or distracted by noises or peripheral scenes.

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