The Ever Presence of God

Jump to Last Post 1-3 of 3 discussions (21 posts)
  1. Live to Learn profile image78
    Live to Learnposted 15 months ago

    I just ran across this article and it mirrors my thoughts on how God can know all things.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ … verse.html

    The interesting thing is that God says 'I AM'. Not I was, am and will always be. It is a simple statement of I AM. I have come to believe that when these words were first spoken the past, present and future came into existence simultaneously. The entire universe, as we observe it, became an is. We, being embedded in the tapestry of the universe can only see from the perspective we have by our position in the timeline which already exists. Currently, I am trying to understand how something can exist within and outside of time simultaneously. 

    Any thoughts? I'm really just interested in creative comments. If you want to bash God and believers we could start a new thread. I promise I won't hijack it. I probably won't comment more than once or twice.

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

      "Currently, I am trying to understand how something can exist within and outside of time simultaneously.  "

      Addressing only this portion, we might start by observing that the surface of a sheet of paper, only two dimensional, is within a 3 dimensional (or perhaps more) space.  Time is but a 4th "dimension" that composes what we recognize as our universe, so there is no problem being without it, like a plane without the 3rd dimension.  A 3 dimensional "thing" in a 4 dimensional (including time) universe.

      The problem is that the 2 dimensional surface of a piece of paper is nothing more than a human construct, an imagined thing that does not truly exist.  If we go deep enough into that paper, with ever more powerful microscopes, the surface is most definitely NOT 2 dimensional, but instead 3 dimensional.

      In the same way, we can imagine something that is not a part of the 4 dimensional universe, but it is only imagined.  We know of nothing that exists in that condition and have little reason to think it is possible.

      1. Live to Learn profile image78
        Live to Learnposted 15 months agoin reply to this

        That's about where I am right now except for the part about having little reason to think it is possible. I would say, by what we know that we don't know, we have every reason to ponder the possibility.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

          I don't see ignorance ("what we know that we don't know") is a reason to decide anything at all.  To ponder the possibility is a far cry from trying to figure out how to rationalize it as absolute or even probable ("I am trying to understand how something can exist within and outside of time simultaneously").  In other words, the "how" comes long after the "what".

          1. Live to Learn profile image78
            Live to Learnposted 15 months agoin reply to this

            I think it is just a basic difference in approach. This can be due to what one thinks the ramifications of any answer might be. To someone who believes that belief in a higher power would entail a choice between paradise and eternal torture would probably be more willing to choose a 'rule everything out first' approach. Someone like me who doesn't buy into an eternal punishment for earthly existence is more open to a 'don't rule anything out until it is proven wrong' approach. I see no real loss or gain whatever the answer to the mystery of the universe is.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

              Perhaps.  I see a danger in accepting a premise (something can exist outside of time) and then finding reasons how it might happen.  One tends to lose objectivity, accepting belief as truth and then spending time figuring out how it is possible rather than finding out if it is possible.  As objectivity is probably the most important tool a researcher has it becomes necessary to keep it and ensure that personal desires don't enter into it; that belief not override truth.

              I understand that in the matter of religious/spiritual/supernatural beliefs this approach is seldom used, which is one very big reason I'm not a believer.

              1. Live to Learn profile image78
                Live to Learnposted 15 months agoin reply to this

                Hold up on that one wilderness. What about many worlds theory, or any multiple universe theory for that matter. What about the theory of relativity, or the Big Bang, even. What about string theory? All of these move or initially moved in the arena of the possibility of what ifs not what are. All driven by simple observation.  Even the discovery of bacteria was driven by observation, not a firm knowledge that bacteria existed.

                We already know that time is not a constant. Our measurements prove slight variations. Our observations show great variations. Since we know this much it is not outside the realm of possibility for (by our understanding of time) time to coexist with an absence of time.

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, driven by simple observation (or mathematical proof in the case of relativity).  We postulated the Big Bang, and found evidence for it, but we're still working on the "how".  Same with string theory.  Even relativity was postulated (if mathematical proof is considered a postulate) and then showed it to be true, but still have no answer as to "how".  But there is no observation of anything "outside of time", even if we define the terminology.

                  You're right - it may be possible.  So find it.  Find something outside of time.  THEN figure out how it is possible.  But let me throw a concept at you; without time there is no movement.  No mph, RPM, vibrations per second...nothing moves.  No light waves, no sound. No blood flow, no heartbeat.  A stasis, in other words, where everything is absolutely still right down to atomic vibrations and electron movements.  A stasis that can never change as there can be no movement to change anything.  Using this simple logic, then, there can BE no "outside of time" as everything moves.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image78
                    Live to Learnposted 15 months agoin reply to this

                    Yes, I get that time involves movement.  However, if we know that time flows at different rates then we can assume that (by our standards) time can appear to not flow at all. This doesn't mean that nothing exists in that state it simply means that we don't currently understand it because of our limited understanding of time, itself.

                    don't look at this from a search for God perspective. Everyone starts with one of two basic paradigms but each side is searching for similar answers.

  2. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 15 months ago

    Human beings have certainly been gifted the capacity to see the world through many different kinds of lens.

    I have had plenty of experiences of the world which I would call mystical if I had been brought up that way. But I wasn't, so I go with 'isn't life wonderful?'. Sometimes, at any rate, lol.

    We all need something to help endure the hell of other people. And our terror of being alone.

    1. Live to Learn profile image78
      Live to Learnposted 15 months agoin reply to this

      Ummmmm.....OK???

  3. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 15 months ago

    I think you need a God with a slightly more comprehensive view of humanity, Live to Learn. I recommend a God that reads poetry, at the very least. And Scientific America, when he/she feels up to it.

    I wouldn't burden any deity with the need to read these forums, lol.

    1. Live to Learn profile image78
      Live to Learnposted 15 months agoin reply to this

      Um....OK?

      Edit. It occurred to me I should probably respond with something about as on point as  your comment. So, the rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain? Or is it plane.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://hubpages.com/privacy-policy#gdpr

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)