Is Messiah really the visible image of the invisible GOD?

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   underhiswingsposted 13 years ago

   Yes or no or I am not sure.....or ???
   
   2nd question:
   Is Messiah the Image of GOD we are to worship?

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      mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      We are all his image, god is in everything .
      
      2nd- No worship the spirit or god in him which is also the spirit in you.

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Don't know if the Messiah is image of God. The sound that comes out of the Lords mouth is the word and  is also called Jesus Christ. I'm not sure if God has a single image. "I am that I am" implies that he/she/it is everything. I think that Jesus was God in the image of a Man??? I also think that if God wants to communicate with a frog, the frog would see him/her/it as appearing like a frog. This to help the frog to feel more comfortable???

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      underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Do you read the New Testament?

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   The question ...visible image implies physical similarity. I do not think that anyone has seen God to make that determination.

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      underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Have you seen the New Testament?

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   I've read several versions and many, many interpretations

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      underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation.

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   underhiswingsposted 13 years ago

   If the Good News we preach is veiled from anyone, it is a sign that they are perishing.
   Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News that is shining upon them. They don't understand the message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is the exact image of God.

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   @  Underhiswings
      mine and your basic believe differences are based in my understanding of end time prophesies. I do believe that when God gives the interpretation of the thing; we should understand that literally as written. I believe that if this can not be taken literally, nothing can be taken literally.
       I believe that this is the root of ALL and conflictconfusion.

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      underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Do you know where the statements came from?

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   which statements are you refering to

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      underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      the ones I posted

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   I do not believe that the God of heaven looks like The son of man (Jesus)looked like while he was here on the earth.
     You might refresh my memory as to which other statements.

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      underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Here are some from The New Testament
      
      For he has rescued us from the one who rules in the kingdom of darkness, and he has brought us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.
      God has purchased our freedom with his blood and has forgiven all our sins.
      Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation.
      Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see-kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him.
      He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.
      
      If the Good News we preach is veiled from anyone, it is a sign that they are perishing.
      Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News that is shining upon them. They don't understand the message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is the exact image of God.
      
      He who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   I do not remember where it is written but it is written that  no one can look upon the face (Glory) of God and live.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    If you believe that we should take that verse concerning Jesus being the exact image of God literally, then you should take the 9th chapter  of Daniel literally also

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       So it is all figurative to you?
       God has no image?
       Paul was just saying nonsense?
       No man can see the glory of Him and live, true.
       What is that glory then?
       The answer is in the text I posted.

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    underhiswingsposted 13 years ago

    If Jesus is not the image of God, then who's image is He?

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       Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I believe that Jesus in god in the image of man.

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          underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Well what about all the things i posted that Paul stated?
          Paul did not say He is the image of man.
          He said the exact image of God.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    If I have ever spoken a single word of truth on these forums it would be that when GOD tells Gabriel to tell Daniel the interpretation of the matter, this should be taken literally. 
        If any christian can not see the truth in that,,, they are blind indeed.
         I do not see how they can say that they believe anything that is written in scripture. What would that be based upon?

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    It is written that jesus is the only begotten son of God.
        Psalms 2:7the Lord hath sain unto meThou art my son this day I hath begotten the. (David said this)
        There is too much truth lost in translation for us to loose any more by interpretating the word of God

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Nothing to interpret here Jerami
       
       Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
       
       the glory of Christ, who is the exact image of God.
       
       He who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person.
       
       Direct statements from Col. Cor. and Heb.
       
       If He is the only begotten of God....then that makes Him....His image.

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          underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          You seem to not want to address the above.

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Who said that?
       
       The Lord is talking there not David.

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          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          does that not cause a problem with there being only one begotten son

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    how do we explane Psalmes 2:7  that God said thou art my son  this day I have begotten thee

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    My point all along is that when there is a clear contradiction of facts, who are we to form the basis of our beliefs upon.  God or Paul ?

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Oh, so you think Paul and whoever wrote Hebrews contradicts God?
       Perhaps you seem to think there is a contradiction?
       
       Please point it out to us.
       
       Take what Paul said and find a contrary scripture because that is a serious charge you just issued against the apostle Paul who saw the risen Messiah in His image and likeness.

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          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          the contradiction or misinterpretation that I am speaking of at this time is Psalmes 2:7  and jesus being the only begotten son of God.  This is either a clear contradiction or a misinterpretation.  You tell me wich

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             Scott.Lifeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Alot of scholars think Luke may have authored Hebrews along with Acts, as it shares a similar writing style.

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             underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             You are the one who said a contradiction exists Jerami...I see none, perhaps you are confused to say Paul who said Messiah is the exact image of GOD is wrong?
             You leveled the charge, you get to prove it.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    I often have trouble believing mans interpretations of scripture. When we take this verse as literal fact and when do we consider the verse as needing interpretation.
       I tend to take those verses said to be quotes from the father the son or Gabriel as in need to be taken literally. If interpretation is needed lets do that with the disciple version

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       In the beginning was THE WORD and THE WORD was GOD...
       
       So GOD is the WORD and who is that WORD?

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    Again you are interpretating my words to seem that I am saying something else as you seem to do with scripture.
    Why are you twisting my words?

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You said that there is a contradiction Jerami.

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    underhiswingsposted 13 years ago

    God has an Only begotten who was begotten in His image...no problem.
    
    If God has an image, who it that image Jerami?

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    King David is Gods begotten son 
    Psalms 2:7   " I declare the decree the Lord hath said unto me  "Thou art my son this day I have begotten thee"
      Jesus of Nazareth is gods only begotten son
      this seems to be a contradiction or misinterpretation.
      As to what God and Jesus looks like I do not know!
      I do not think that Paul had seen God either therefore I in all honesty can not say.
       And off the top of my head I do not remember reading the verse you are referring to

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … mp;t=KJV#4
       
       http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … p;t=KJV#15
       
       http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … mp;t=KJV#3

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    Tackle Thisposted 13 years ago

    What a great question.  But, yes, I believe that Jesus portrays the Godhead bodily -- yes.

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … mp;t=KJV#4
       
       http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … p;t=KJV#15
       
       http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … mp;t=KJV#3
       
       
       If you click those links you will see it.
       He also proved He was the image when He transfigured Himself on the mount.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    I noticed moments ago, on another thread you referred to PSlms 2:7  king David being the begotten son of God.  And yet you say that Jesus is the only begotten son of God. You also say that there is no contradiction or mistranslation.  ????????????????

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You are the one that thinks it's David
       You think it is David not me...no way.
       
       Here in the same Psalm it proves He is not talking about David
       http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … JV#comm/12

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    I have answered your question several times why will you not answer mine?

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I have....you think a contradiction exists...I do not.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    The Lord did say it to King David (in the present tense), about 1000 BC.  I believe that when prophesy was written concerning Jesus I believe it said that not one bone "WILL"  be broken. I believe prophesy was all written in the future tense, But I could be wrong.

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       OK OK OK ....
       
       So what about what Paul said?
       
       When Messiah transfigured into glory....what image was that?
       The image of whom?
       
       If you just want to say Messiah is not the image of God, then say it.
       You will be contradicting Him though.
       
       He said "all the glory of the Father is in ME !!!"

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          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          By your statement I will assume that you agree that King David is the son of God and this day he was begotten. This is a contradiction or misinterpretation. 
          as for what Paul said, tell me the chapter and verse and I will look it up in my KJ version  computer isn't acting right.

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             underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             2Cr 4:4
             Col 1:15
             Hbr 1:3
             
             All of Psalm 2 is about Messiah and some of what David did resembled Messiah. Look at v.10 though and you cannot tell me it is talking of David

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                Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    The only thing That I might speculate upon when reading these verses is that when these verses were written,(around 60 AD) Jesus was with the father and in his glory. These verses are also written in the present tence. It   DOES NOT    say that while Jesus walked the earth he WAS the image of the Father.father.
                   "Be wise therefore , O ye kings ye judges of the earth."
                    the kings must be instructed (learn) for they are judges of the earth   I do not understand your point?

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                   underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   If you have seen ME than you have seen the FATHER....HE said this while on the earth.
                   
                   HE was transfigured into the glory of GOD in front of Peter James and John.
                   
                   HE said all that the Father has of glory I AM it !!!
                   
                   HE was resurrected and now is the glorious image of GOD just like HE always has been.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    I have studying end time prophesy for almost ten years,
    anticipation of every question imaginable in an attempt to disprove my belief concerning the time comparison between prophetic and earthly time. this concept affects every area of scripture. I  attempted to disprove this belief without success. The more analytical examination I spent further proved this concept at least in my mind with more certainty. I doubt that you can think of a question that I have not already considered.

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       underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       The topic here is THE IMAGE OF GOD.

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    underhiswingsposted 13 years ago

    So do you believe HE was GOD in human form?
    GOD in the flesh?
    THE WORD made manifest?

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       Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I have never denied that . It is a fact. But I believe that when he was in the flesh he left all of his "Gods Glory" at Home

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          underhiswingsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          So is HE now the image of GOD?

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    I am convinced that he is now the spittin image of God.  When the messiah ascended up into heaven he was the brutally slain lamb of God when he began opening the first six seals. He then became Messiah the Prince as written in the book of Daniel.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    I must say that this has been a plesant discussion with you tonight.  But is getting late and I have to do more hard manuel labor tomorrow. gotta take a few asprins and get some sleep. get up early and take more asprins   
       sweet dreams

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