Catholics really believe in this stuff ? The Pope does too. Amazing !!
You left out the other 7
They're not relevant here. Anyway I don't talk about kabbalah with people i don't know.
I know they are not relevant here...I just wanted to pull your chain.
Your analogy is okay but I am wondering where the Catholics are?OMG Q&T, that is great, loved the graphics.
LOL, no not normally, too many arguments and heated debates for my liking, but this time I couldn't resist as the emoticon type images were so funny.
I think you got yours from Carlos
Mad on...who?
you mean truth
Yes. your truth is nonsense. you should explain it better
I wrote a thousand words and you still don't get it?
Read it again Hobo Kelly - you said Virgin Mary was the Holly ghost. Well ,she's not
Hello,
Might I ask the author where he got his sources from? For all the finger pointing, it seems to be highly erroneous and full of faults. You seem to pick and choose what you want, take it out of context and then use that to bolster your claims.
For one claiming that the Church's theology is distorted, it would seem that you my friend, are the one preaching distorted truths. How is it that the Catechism of the Catholic Church or any other official doctrine of the Catholic church does not teach any of what you have mentioned here?
It is interesting too that you'd choose to post this here, expecting a hearty argument with Catholics or perhaps for a number of anti-Catholic persons to come and give you a pat on the back. Why not seek clarification with a scholar or someone who is actually qualified to comment on this issue before you post? It is only common sense to any modern, educated person , Catholic or not, with the slightest desire to google or ask someone qualified with the intention to find out more, that Mary is not the Holy spirit. Why go through all the fuss only to make yourself look silly?
The Catholic church does not teach that Mary has replaced the Holy Spirit at all. Anywhere. Period. Mother Mary gave her life in complete obedience over to God. The Holy Spirit is within her, works and flows through her, in a similar way the Holy Spirit is within and works through you and me in our daily actions, albeit in a more complete and intense manner. After all, both you and I have not given ourselves entirely over(in thought, word, deed, intention e.t.c.) to God have we? Be honest please.
Mary is not above or equal to God at all. All things flow from God. She is a created being. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus became incarnate in her womb. And like all created beings in heaven obedient to God, such as the saints, angels e.t.c. she intercedes to the Father(God) for us.
Her intercessory role was evident even in her life on earth. In the Bible(John 2), she asked Jesus(God)to turn the water into wine on behalf of the servants(people) at the wedding at Cana. She told the servants: 'Do whatever He tells you.' This role of Mother Mary in bringing the servants to God is very much like what all intercessors are called to do. "To stand in the gap."(Ezekiel 22:30)
And because of her complete obedience to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is able to work completely and fully within and through her. Much like how to a lesser extent(only because God gives us the freedom to do so) the Holy Spirit works in you and me, but that's because we are not completely submitted to God amongst other reasons...
A cursory, yet level-headed look at all Marian prayers will show that they only ask for intercession or to ask her to lead us to her Son Jesus. Other hymns and prayers only offer honour to her as the Mother of the Church and therefore our Mother and so forth. But this is Biblical - the Hail Mary is taken from the archangel Gabriel's greeting and the words Elizabeth greeted her with.The latter half of the Hail Mary is asking for her intercession. Other hymns and praises are only doing justice to Mother Mary that God gave her first in the Bible through the words of the angel Gabriel, Jesus and other places.
This is different from worship, worship belongs only to God. In simple terms, we are offering praise(not the same praise offered to God). We can offer praise to anyone we meet throughout the day - "You look very beautiful.. e.t.c." This is a slightly higher form of praise, because we offer honour. we offer honour because (amongst other things) we admire how she lived, her submission to God, giving thanks to God for her saying yes and therefore bringing her Son into the world. But this is not as high as the praise reserved for God alone.
A lot of times too, such hymns and prayers include petitioning for intercessions from Mary.
E.G. from the marian hymn:
Mother Dearest Mother Fairest :
Mother dearest, Mother fairest, help us, help us, help we pray....
Mother Dear O Pray for Me:
Mother dear, O pray for me!
Should pleasure's siren lay.
E'er tempt thy child to wander far
From Virtue's path away.
When thorns beset life's devious way,
And darkling waters flow.
Then Mary aid thy weeping child,
Thyself a mother show.
The willingness of Mary in her intercessory role, to step out of her comfort zone to stand in the gap and bring the people to God alludes to the amount of humility Mary has, to be able to give up her own status, pride and will, and submit totally and completely to God, devoting her time and effort to bring them to Him.
Priests, Pastors and all other fellow men can only point to God. Like all created beings that are for God, She leads us to God. She is human, yet Mother of the Divine.
The term "Queen of Heaven", alludes to the Royal dignity of Mary as Mother of the King of heaven. It also refers to her co-operation with Jesus in His redemptive works. Beginning with the immaculate conception - Mother Mary was a virgin, she gave birth to Jesus in an 'immaculate' state.
In the Catechism of the Catholic Church it says: "She was exalted by the Lord as Queen of all in order that she might be more thoroughly conformed to her Son, the Lord of Lords and the conqueror of sin and death" (Lumen Gentium 59; cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 966).
This goes way deeper than what I am stating here, but for the sake of brevity, I'm gonna keep it short. Mary could have refused God, therefore not conceiving Jesus. It is not to say that God is not all powerful, but He gives us the power of choice, like in you and me today. Sin still exists does it not? But it is only by His Grace and mercy, IF we choose to turn to Him and accept it that we are able to operate according to His will, through the promptings and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
But, Mary, through the grace of the Holy Spirit completely obedient to Him, said yes to God. And thus was a medium for Jesus to come into the world for His redemptive mission. Is this not true?
Another simple, commonsense example. As a mother, she brought up and took care and loved Jesus did she not? She shares a special bond with Jesus, being His mother. All the time cooperating with God, which allowed Jesus to mature into a man and therefore begin His ministry and ultimately dying on the cross for you and me.
On the surface, this barely scratches what is meant by 'co-redemption'.
Finally, Mother Mary, like all those who are or will go to heaven, share in the glory of God. She has a special place, because of her affiliation to Jesus. And in a sense, when she gave birth to Jesus, her actions allowed for the forming of the Church. Hence the name: "Mother of the Church".
In the Bible just before Jesus died He too said, "Woman this is your son(John), and son(John- representing the church), this your mother." (John 19:26)
As a mother of the church, she works in co-operation with and through the power of her Son and the Holy Spirit to take care of her Son's flock. like the church, She wishes and works towards all people coming to know her Son(God) and intercedes to her Son on our behalf. In a lesser sense, this is similar to how we pray to God for one another. Remember, she has a special relationship with Jesus - the theology behind this goes deeper that what can be summarised here.
An example of the true spirit of our Mother can be seen in the message she gave in Medjugorje in Christmas, 2008.
"Dear children! You are running, working and gathering - but without blessing. You are not praying! Today I call you to stop in front of the manger and to meditate on Jesus, whom I give to you today also, to bless you and to help you to comprehend that, without him, you have no future. Therefore, little children, surrender your lives into the hands of Jesus, for him to lead you and protect you from every evil. Thank you for having responded to my call. December 25, 2008-by Pilgrim
St. Maximillian Kolbe, explained best by a current Catholic website,once said something to like this: 'All grace ultimately comes to us from God the Father, through the merits of Jesus Christ, his Son, and is distributed by the Holy Spirit.And the Holy Spirit, in distributing all grace, works in and through Mary — not because He has to do so, but precisely because in his plan of salvation, God wills to do so. And God wills to do so for a reason: Jesus, the Source of all grace, came through Mary via the work of the Holy Spirit; therefore it is fitting that all grace continue to come through Mary by the work of the Holy Spirit.'
She can 'give Jesus' to us, because she carries Him in her, the Holy Spirit flows and works through her remember? And because God is the Triune God, where one is present, so too the Son and the Father there will be. In fact in the Bible, she carried Jesus around to people in her womb!
Hence, from this short, yet lengthy post, see that in order to REALLY understand what the Holy Father meant when He said this, you must first seek to at least understand the context it is put in, from a proper perspective.
"According to Soul Magazine, the official publication for The Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima,“Mary is so perfectly united with the Holy Spirit that He acts only through her, his spouse…all our life, word and deed is in Her hands…at every moment, She herself must instruct, guide, and transform each one of us into Herself, so that not we but She lives in us, as Jesus lives in Her, and the Father in the Son.”
I have tried to paraphrase it to the best of my ability to help you understand better.
"Mother Mary is perfectly united with the Holy Spirit, and He chooses to act through her, His spouse in whom which Jesus was conceived and brought forth for our salvation. This being the case, all our life word and deed is in Her hands. She must transform us into her(by the grace of God), so that we too, in our humaness(like Mary), may be completely conformed and be obedient to the will of God in humility(like Jesus, the primary and perfect example of how to lead our lives.) Mother Mary is so perfectly united with the Holy Spirit, that her every action and word conforms with God's(Holy Spirit). So now, when we become like Mary, humble and completely submitted to the will of God. As Jesus lives Her, if we, through the grace and power of the Holy Spirit(God) working in us, allow Mother Mary to lead us and transform us to become like her(complete humility, obedience to God), she will live in us and so, Jesus will live in us too. (Hence because the Son lives in the Father and the Father lives in the Son, God the Father will live in us too(Triune God).
Even in this post, I am only able to offer but a brief insight on this topic. I too am discovering new and wonderful things about my faith even today. There is so much more to learn about Catholic doctrines and Mother Mary that you can discover in the Catholic faith. It is deep and wide, if you open your heart and mind to it. No doubt there will be many many more questions and doubts needing clarification. But I invite you to try googling them up from legitimate Catholic websites to find out more about it and understand it first before posting again.
That being said, to the author, I invite you once again to provide evidence for your claims. It is easy to incite anger and throw unsupported accusations against the Church. It is also easy to belittle those who oppose your own beliefs with harsh words. But at the end of the day what good will that bring you? It will never be enough to satiate your ego.
Instead, I invite the author, fellow readers and future posters to find out more the true teachings of the Catholic faith. There are many good sources both off and online, on the radio or on tv. Also, you could visit your local Catholic parish and approach the religious or clergy there.
In the meantime, take care and God bless you my friends.
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