What I (and others wish) the Church knew about....

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   jlparkposted 10 years ago

   What I (and others wish) the Church knew about....
   
   (insert thing here). For me, what I wish the church knew about Homosexuality - see the pic - finally a picture which really does say 1000 words.  What about you? Agree with the pic? Or have something that you wish the Church knew about....
   NB: this is NOT at all those people who go to Church, just those who...use the church to hide behind when giving an opinion, or preventing someone from having rights....slavery etc.
   
   

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   CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years ago

   The "picture" above is a lot to do about nothing.
   
   I have never heard homosexuals speak the truth nor have I ever seen one or even heard of one who doesn't run from it. It's all about justifying their perverted and lustful behavior. They then try to get the rest of the world to condone their activity...openly endorse their activity...protect their activity and ultimately engage in their activity. That is the homosexual agenda in a nut-shell.
   
   Please tell me and the whole world about all the wonderful health benefits associated with being a practicing homosexual, and please do not neglect to list its known virtues.
   
   Then, if you are willing, tell me how the world is a better place with an expanding homosexual population and how people and society are better off practicing it...than abstaining from it.
   
   Then, if you aren't too busy, tell me why I should shun nature and God for ear-marking your favorite indoor sport for death and destruction.
   
   P.S. If you are really daring and feel rather honest, perhaps you could explain all the downsides and known health problems associated with this spiritual disease. You know...just to be fair. Thanking you in advance. - C.J.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      CJ are you speaking of the downsides of religion, being a spiritual disease, or are you still fixated on incorrect assumptions?
      I will answer either, I just want to be sure.

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      CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I do not know of any unhealthy benefits associated with practicing pure Christianity...other than rampant persecution. And, yes, I am still fixated on God's truth...not your conjured counterfeit.

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      LauraGTposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      CJ: It must be very hard for you to be on the wrong side of history.  Sad that you think you have a moral high ground, when really your vitriol demonstrates a deep hatefulness. But. you do seem to live in a scary, albeit made up,  world...

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      CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for sharing your opinon, Laura, and for bringing it to my attention that you need a lot of prayer. By the way, I do not care what side of history I am on as long as I am on God's side. Moral high-ground? Gee..I hope so. Hateful? Not at all.

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      ReneeDC1979posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Laura,
      Why do you call CJ hateful because he disagrees completely with homosexuality.  Just like I don't believe in abortion, but I don't hate you if you have one.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Renee - some of CJ's comments previously do not lend themselves kindly to his character unfortunately. However, I am sure we are all guilty of this at times - myself included. Having had a respectful conversation with him,  my view has changed of him

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   jlparkposted 10 years ago

   An answer for CJ Sledgehammer.....please see our "Honest Discourse" hub...
   
   http://jlpark.hubpages.com/hub/Honest-D … -CJ-and-JP
   
   Any comments, CJ - put it there...

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      So much to say usually CJ - yet I call u on it and no answer? I'm open for the honest discourse - it's just a little weird talking to myself.

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   m0rd0rposted 10 years ago

   You put the word "church" in the right place, the other probably did not notice.
   
   Or they don't know the difference between:
   
   Church,
   Faith and
   Religion.
   
   They are different things, sometimes contradicting to one another.
   
   The church of someone, practices some organized religion to get the faith of the people in control.
   
   The church is an organization of people.
   Organized religion is a system of habits and rituals.
   Faith is something inside the people that makes them believe (or fear) higher powers is there for them (to pray to or to fear).
   
   Small children believe in santa.
   Small people believe in god.
   Strong children know how to make their parents buy them expensive toys.
   Strong people know how to control small people with their faith.
   
   This is what church is about.
   
   The people described inside Leviticus are something for the mass control Strong people use for the small people.
   
   Imagine a mediocre wh0re known to everyone in the city.
   Do the other people hate her for sleeping with their husbands?
   Of course!
   Stone her!
   
   Imagine a mediocre homsexual male in medieval city.
   Do the mothers of other boys feel afraid their sons may get interested in him?
   Of course!
   Every mother does.
   Stone him!
   
   Masses are happy the law allows them to stone people to death (their blood be upon them).
   
   The feudal lord is glad, people are happy and they pay their taxes.
   
   This was what the church and organized religion does to people with faith.
   
   Makes them organized killers and haters.
   
   The church will either evolve or disappear.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Again, one that has been voted down, because people disagree....it is not offensive to anyone...
      This one - has a lot of truth in it.  I will make sure all answers are visible unless frankly and nastily offensive to anyone.

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      m0rd0rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks CJ, stay proud and sorry for my grammar. English is not my native language.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I understood, Mordor, I thought that you had a thoughtful, and respectful way of putting the point across - and you understood my point - what does the Church need to understand, that it does not yet understand not neces. homosexuality. Thank you

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   krillcoposted 10 years ago

   Very powerful, that is. Especially #10. Venom from the mouth condemns the heart.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Why did I choose this one for Best Answer? Because such a simple statement encompasses all that is wrong with the world. We disagree with someone, then spit venomous statements at then to convince them we are right. Not clever. Thank u Krillco

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      CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Jlpark: Since when is the truth "venomous"? I would rather have one person who speaks the truth than 10,000,000 gain-sayers.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It's not what is said, it's how it's said. The same things said by two different people in two different ways can change the truth to venom. If u approach something with respect, it comes across as such. If u approach it with force, it becomes venom

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      CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I think an unwanted truth will always sting unreceptive ears regardless of the delivery.

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      Gareth Pritchardposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      jlpark,  venom has nothing to do with force, poisonous words with ill intent is what is meant not force, articulate sarcastic people do it all the time to others who are less articulate, usually to try and make themselves look good.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It does when it comes from a place of fear or hatred - which both seem to come together.
      The truth doesn't bother me, CJ, doesn't sting either. Seems to get a rise out of some people though, when their truth doesn't ring true for anyone but them.

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      ReneeDC1979posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Jlpark your translation of what you read can be subjective.  If your truth is different from my truth, you will always see it as venom.  Hence, the serpent (satan).   What he spoke was untruth and poison to Adam and Eve.  Hence, their eviction.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Renee - thank you. We aren't going to agree on 'the truth' - yet I understand you are speaking from a respectful place, not a place of fear. We don't have to agree but respect is like honey - makes a bitter pill easier to swallow - for both sides.

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      Gareth Pritchardposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      jlpark, "a place of fear or hatred" that is what I was saying, I am sure and I interpreted your term "force" to mean loud, angrily which can and often is misinterpreted, sometimes on purpose by poisonous people to undermine.

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   bockshinerposted 10 years ago

   1. God (Jesus) wrote the entire Bible. Not just Jesus' words in the Gospels.
   2. Who said I was?
   3. Ok? Random thought I suppose.
   4. Same rights? Homosexuals have the same rights to marry someone of the opposite sex as heterosexuality do.
   5. Just like the message in this picture? It seems it's the people that disagree with Christians that are the ones that can't handle someone with different views.
   6. For gays, brothers and sisters, business partners, best friends...? Are you saying ALL relationships should be allowed this "right'?
   7. I don't know what this means.
   8. Like do not murder? Do not commit adultery? Yep, those outdated Levitical laws. Let's do away with them all. Btw, you don't have to use Leviticus or the Old Testament to make you're case. This objection is simply false. Read you're Bible.
   9. Completely not the same. Someone can't stop being black but they can certainly stop behaving as a homosexual.
   10. Wrong about the Bible again! Jesus didn't forbid judging (which you're doing btw). Maybe you should read you're Bible again.

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      CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Bockshiner shoots.........he scores!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for standing up for Christ, truth, and decency, my friend - I am proud to fight by your side. :0)

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Sure, re: Lev.  But, do you were mixed-fibre clothing - poly cotton blend perhaps? Punishable in Lev,  eating pork much the same, touching a woman on her period or anything that she has touched whilst being on her period? I know Lev - do you?

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      bockshinerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You clearly seem to be missing the point. You want to keep going back to Lev. but it's irrelevant. Just because something is in Lev. doesn't mean it doesn't apply today. Rape, murder, theft... are all prohibited in Lev.

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   glynch1posted 10 years ago

   Just because the gospels mention nothing about Jesus' view about homosexuality does not mean He didn't talk to His disciples about the topic. Besides, if Jesus is God (i.e., Yahweh), we already have His perspective on this sinful lifestyle. In addition, the Apostle Paul writes several passages about this topic (see Romans 1:24ff).
   
   Civil rights protections are special laws that require forfeiture of certain rules of freedom. Such laws are valid and appropriate only when the objective is so important it will justify overriding the rules of freedom. Racial equality is an example of a valid objective. We have given up a portion of freedom to advance the important principle of racial equality by enacting laws that forbid discrimination on the basis of race in employment.
   
   The advancement of homosexuality is not a goal worthy of the forfeiture of any person's freedom. Homosexuality is not an alternative lifestyle; it deviates from normal practices of life, and leads to further moral perversion. Conservatives, while adhering to the injunction to love one another, can only reject homosexuality and attempt to influence homosexuals to change to Godly living.
   
   The book of Leviticus contains civil law that God meant only the theocratic commonwealth of Israel to follow. Today we draw moral principles from its pages.
   
   Jesus "forbade" a self-righteous attitude that condemned others; He did not forbid judging the deeds of others if one's own life is pure (cf. Matt. 7:5; John 7:24).

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      CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Well said, glynch1. In fact, to elaborate on one of your earlier points, Christ never went on record discussing the possibilities of the Moon being made of green cheese. So, I suppose, if He didn't condemn that notion openly...then it could be legit?

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   sallieannluvslifeposted 10 years ago

   Exactly what are you referring to when you refer to "the Church"?  Christians individually are "the Church", whether or not they choose to "attend" per their religions in an actual building and be told by a minister or priest what the Bible says or whether they choose to honor and worship elsewhere using the Bible as the guideline for their "christian" faith, have a personal relationship with Jesus and believe what they read individually.  Just to be clear, God does not hate homosexuals - He created them, after all, and loves them no matter what - He just hates the act as being sinful - he destroyed cities and all who dwelt in them due to those acts and behaviors.  That is what is so misconstrued in the homosexual agenda against Christians...only those "Christians" who do not know the true nature of God's love for us, will claim that God hates homosexuals, but those "Christians" should not be the stereotype for all Christians.  God loves everyone and just wants them to come to Him individually, what lifestyle you choose is between you and God...He is the ultimate Judge, not those of us who claim to be Christians, whether or not we really are or are not.

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      glynch1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Christians corporately are the "Church." While local church attendance is not mandatory to be a member of the body of Christ, obeying God in this regard will show where the individual's heart is.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Read the question - I am not against Christians in general, more those who use the Church as something to hide their hatred behind, which is NOT all Christians - i know some wonderful christians, and some awful ones.  The end of your answer - I agree

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      sallieannluvslifeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      unfortunately, the "churches" of today and their misconstrued priorities, hypocrisies and distortions and misinterpretations of the Bible have turned more believers AND unbelievers away than brought them to Christ - Westboro Baptist Church for one...

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      ReneeDC1979posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Great points sallie.  You love the sinner, not the sin.

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   ReneeDC1979posted 10 years ago

   I get what you're saying, but still don't agree.  If you are homosexual and that is what you truly believe in, then why are you so mad because a Christian who follows God's word does not accept it.  You talk about Civil Right -isn't it our right to believe and say what we want.  Just like you believe we should accept gay marriage, well I don't.  And yes, we sin and fall short.  But, the Bible is what Christians use to follow God's word and understand what we are supposed to do while on this earth.  If the law is the book you follow of what you're supposed to do as homosexuals, then follow it.  Have fun!  But, don't be mad because I believe in God, and in my daily walk to get closer to Him I will follow the Bible.  The Bible says marriage is between a man and a woman, and that's how I want to see it.  If you get married, enjoy, but don't expect me to come to the wedding or send a gift!

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      CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Renee, I just love it when someone has the courage to speak the truth and stand up for what is moral and right! I think you have discovered the homosexual agenda...they want everyone to accept, condone, endorse, protect and practice what they preach.

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      ReneeDC1979posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you CJ - the interesting part is they expect everyone to say "Yay Be Gay, that's great - wheee - yippee - woohoo"

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not mad. People have missed the point. I have no issue with religion - only those who insist I follow their rules when they themselves do not even follow them all.  Your answer was well written, and I would like to thank you for a respectful post

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      ReneeDC1979posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The interesting thing about the pic is it doesn't teach me about homosexuality.  Usually when I learn about a subject it answers questions like who started it, when and where it started, how it started, and why.  Tell the author to start over.

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Renee it's not supposed to teach u about homosexuality - it's supposed to teach u about the hypocrisy of the church in regards to homosexuality and others. Still not the point of the question either

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      ReneeDC1979posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      But you used an image that says 10 things the church should know about homosexuality -so which one is it -i should know or shouldn't I

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      jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, because what I want the church to understand is just those things.  What do YOU want the Church to understand that it doesn't? That was the question. So, the pic isn't supposed to teach you about homosexuality - but more to illustrate my point.

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      bockshinerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      jlpark,  if this image is supposed to "teach u about the hypocrisy of the church in regards to homosexuality and others" it fails in doing that as I've shown in my post. It does show an ignorance of Christian beliefs and basic logic.

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    Gareth Pritchardposted 10 years ago

    
    
    The Church is made up of people, run by people, used by people, people are corrupt, fickle, irresponsible, and every other negative, positive connotation the language has words for. The Church must be as FUBAR as the people are, this includes homosexuals, heterosexuals, asexuals and any other sexual preference, color, creed or albino. They all ought to think about this, we come into the world with nothing and we leave the same way. It does not matter how many differences they can find amongst  themelves, between themselves, they are far out weighed by the similarities. Yet they crab on and about anything rather than what really does matter and they never celebrate their commonalities. What can I say the Church is everything above and more because it is made up of people.
    
    Distraction Propaganda.

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       CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       So, moral judgment, good sense, decency, and truth do not matter? Yes, the "Church" has its problems, but from what I have seen, it is usually because someone does not practice the aforementioned and has thus become morally compromised.

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       Gareth Pritchardposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with your sentiments but they seem to be the vast majority from my window to the world, not the minority and ever growing in number but that might be an illusion of  the good old days syndrome.  Telling people has just made me isolated.

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       jlparkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you for your insightful comments. That is what I was looking at for the answer....not a discussion on homosexuality - but what you think the Church needs to understand about anything...and doesn't....yet.

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    PlanksandNailsposted 10 years ago

    Without God's grace, our minds are not transformed, and without His power, our lives are not changed. Scripture is used to judge this state of unrighteousness. That is the standard. The people in the relative world and those who followers of Jesus Christ are two distinctions.
    
    What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you. - 1 Corinthians 5:12-13
    
    There are many verses in the Bible that call us to judge the behaviour of sin, especially those who are in the church. Jesus Christ loves the whole world and died for all of us, but it is only by accepting His free gift of grace, and allowing Him to change us, that makes a true follower of Christ. A true follower of Christ has changed from the *double-mindedness* of the world into a single-mind with Him. It is being in one accord with Him.
    
    Many churches raise the flag of "unconditional love", but really it is only a form of pride. The term is masked in the term “tolerance”. “Tolerance” for a continual, habitual sinful lifestyle in the church body is not Scriptural. The body of Christ is obligated and required to discipline those in the church who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, but do not follow his standard of righteousness; they have made the *choice* to continue in their sinful and carnal ways.
    
    And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? - 1 Corinthians 5:1-2
    
    Justification for sinful behaviour denies the power of Jesus Christ. A person who's been changed, and their mind renewed, is no longer a homosexual, but a follower of Jesus Christ.
    
    The homosexual agenda in the church are gay people wanting their "special rights"  and they will get them, but they will only come from man.
    
    The genuine "special rights" are received via the Holy Spirit. By the grace of Jesus Christ, a person is transformed and is no longer a homosexual. That is the distinction between a follower of Jesus Christ and a homosexual. A gay "Christian" is a person in the church who has denied the transforming power of Jesus Christ because they are still a homosexual in that lifestyle. It is one or the other. There are many homosexuals who have become genuine Christians and no longer live in their habitual old lifestyle; that is the power of Jesus Christ and the fruit that comes with it.

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       CJ Sledgehammerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Well said, Planks. Bravo!!!

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