How does free will explain or justify the existence of evil?
Many Christians have told me that evil is a necessary byproduct of having free will. This doesn't seem to be true to me, given the following thoughts:
1. If free will exists in heaven, and evil does not, it is possible to have free will without the existence of evil.
2. As long as a choice is still available, free will still exists - but limiting the number of choices does not negate having free will overall. If you see a building, you can choose to go around it, go through it or kick it. Removing the option to kick it does not interfere with having the ability to choose between the options
You have to know what evil is before you can choose it. If I ask you "What tastes better, apples or jackfruit?" you'll probably say "I don't know, I've never heard of jackfruit"
In heaven, they all know what evil is and they've overcome it so they can have free will in the absence of evil.
I don't understand part of your answer. If you cannot choose evil unless you understand it, then are you not doing evil when you "sin" If you don't understand it to be evil?
Snow, then explain: as above, so below with that explanation. Explain The Kingdom of God is Within you. If it is in God's Kingdom then it is everything we know and do not know and is not evil.
Free Will does not justify the existence of evil(bad deeds) nor does Newton's law, "Every action should have an equal and opposite reaction." What justifies evil is desire and curiosity.
Evil that befalls us in the form of calamity and problems are from God, since they are sent by God to test us.
However, evil that is "disobedience to God", breaking the laws or limits set by God, are not created by him. Evil in form of bad deeds are actions of human beings. Since we human beings have free will we can choose cross those limits and break the laws which creates evil. But the important thing to understand here is whether we will or not. A human being only sins because of the whispers of satan. Overtime satan puts enough influence on a human at which point he commits sins on his own will. That's the reason a newborn in considered pure and sinless.
Interesting thing is that certain feelings within us which are created by God which gives the instinct to commit evil, for example jealousy, anger. Both these feelings have good and bad purposes; indeed in the end it is for us to choose. (Note: All souls will be purified of negative feelings before entering Heaven). It is just my thoughts. My belief, in which if I am wrong, may God change me and guide to right path.
Evil is a by product of Our condition in the flesh upon a piece of the Fallen Heaven but free will has a small part in its existence.
It is the lack of the Mercy Seat or GOD's "Throne Of Forgiveness" that causes and lets evil remain and flourish in this our world. The Mercy Seat was what Lucifer had charge of or as the Bible puts it he was the Angel that Covereth.
As Satan, Lucifer hid the truth of GOD's Mercy and Forgiveness which was not only a cleansing power for the transgressors but a healing power. The thought and the offense was removed and erased and the desire was separated from the offender and all that suffered from the offense.
So evil was eliminated It was no more remembered. There was only a short period of Knowledge of both the Good and the evil that had taken place. No records were recorded, no guilt, or blame was lain or highlighted. No transgression remained as if It never happened. So records were not needed.
But since the fall of Lucifer and the angel host that serve with him. One third of Heaven was now unable to receive forgiveness from the Seat of GOD's Throne which is in Heaven. Where GOD is.
So Free Will still takes place in Heaven It has always taken place there. But The Mercy Seat remains there and evil does not.
The Mercy Seat being in Heaven and not upon the earth Evil is remembered and thought upon and acted upon. Even when the offense is forgiven by men the desire remains and the harm and offenses remain. Vengeance is sought by the innocent revenge is encouraged an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth this is a Flesh body's need not a spiritual body's need.
So in my opinion Free will has very little to do with evil. It is the lack of the evil's irresolvable nature with Jesus's Blood or His acceptance to His Gift of dying upon the cross. Or the Lack of Father's Mercy Seat or throne. No GOD no True and Just GOD here with Us to forgive and remove and cleanse the evil presence and desires place and whispered to men (the Flesh Man) Human beings.
This is why there are two records recorded in Heaven still being kept today. The Book Of Life All the good and evil, deeds of the Un repented for these deeds negate each other as checks and balances.
And the Lambs Book of Life. Those who accepted the gift and were washed in the Blood of the Lamb. The Seat of GOD descended and Satan killed or murder HIM as to try and maintain control of the Lies of Satan. That he is God and that Father is a controlling tyrant.
Aquasilver I agree we can limit and banish its attacks upon us If we use Our authority in Jesus's Name the Christ Emanuel Jesus but we have no power to negate that evil or remove it from earth; as long as Satan is in charge and Unbelievers remain.
All power and authority has been given to me.
These things and greater you shall do in my name.
The enemy is defeated and ONLY has the authority we allow him to hold.
We are to reclaim what the enemy took from Adam & Eve.
If This were true as you are reading It there would be no evil today for I would use that power. The Power is spoken to your enemy that you are referencing We have the right to use this when attacked. The greater things shall come because of attack
But it is true Sinbadsailorman, it's just that the traditional church were deceived into NOT believing what Yeshua stated, can you fault the scriptures? - Was Yeshua a liar? NO to both questions, but we have to stand in faith on His authority.
Free will doesn't justify existence of evil in my opinion. Just as you said, some people just choose to exercise their free will in an undesirable way. Here, undesirable means what is deemed negative to most of us from moral and religious point of view. While our society and religions have made clear differences between the two, there are those whose moral compass are just wired differently. This makes good and evil somewhat relative in nature. What we see as outright evil, these type of people may see it as a righteous justification.
According to the concept of Heaven, freewill does exist in it and so does evil. The Devil came and went freely.
Humans have the freewill to do anything they wish but we can limit our freewill by ideology, morality, or logic. The concept of the Devil is a scapegoat for human un-accountability when we do evil things that go against the institutions of ideology and morality that we have created to bring conformity into society.
I don't think that freewill can exist without evil because there will always be ideals to adhere to.
I agree that the devil has evolved to be a scapegoat, given the fact that he only acted within god's will in the old testament (job) and was not some kind of incarnate evil - but how do you come to the conclusion that evil is required for free will?
The Devils Play will come to full light when the World Order tries to establish itself and fails. He is not a scapegoat but a ravenous Lion waiting to devour the masses. One religion one government Unjust. It is what he has been hoping for from
Evil is a product of ignorance and ideology hates truth. Without knowledge freewill relies solely on ideology. Evil occurs when everyone feels they have the right to do as they like. Evil and freewill will coexist until truth is our only pursuit
In Heaven Evil Is eradicated Because The True GOD Our Father The Creator is there. Upon this planet HE is Not acting as GOD of It. Lucifer now Satan is the God of this world but for a time a short time. No Mercy Seat Evil remains and Flourishes.
Don't get it confused....Free will doesn't explain or justify the existence of evil. Evil exists outside of free will. Free will gives you a choice to participate in evil.
In other words, the water was there before anyone learned to swim... now that people can swim, they choose to get in the water or not.
1. If free will exists in heaven, and evil does not, it is possible to have free will without the existence of evil.
On earth as it IS in Heaven gives us the knowledge that if it's not in Heaven, then it has no authority on earth EXCEPT that which humanity gives it.
So if we (collectively) stop empowering evil, it will stop.
Equally as believers we have authority over evil, in Yeshua's name, unfortunately the enemy has obscured that fact (for obvious reasons) from most of Churchianity, and so they are powerless; by their own deceived position, to enforce Gods Kingdom authority over evil situations.
So evil exists because people choose to ignore or stay ignorant about their authority in Yeshua's name to rebuke, cancel and stop evil actions.
When believers do know this, and are prepared to practice what Yeshua told us to do, then evil loses it's power and authority over us.
For non believers, evil is empowered in their lives and those around them by their choice to reject Yeshua or ignorance of the true situation.
Choose to live under the authority of Yeshua or by default work for the enemy, knowingly or not.
So you think that non believers like me are inherently evil?
No, I think non believers are incapable of holding authority over evil, and therefore more susceptible to it's consequences.
Evil Existed everywhere as does goodness. After the Fall it is now a tool /power the Dark Prince uses he succumbed to It, embraced It and now he Wields It. Before the Fall evil was experienced and then negated Its power was removed by forgiveness
JMcFarland--- I believe we are in the same camp, but I will proceed from an antagonistic position. So to all theists.
If I may use an awkward analogy; let us consider parking the car in the garage and take care not to scrap the sides, as it is narrow. The problem is that you do not have a garage, but yet you insist upon differing ways to enter. This is your question. You assume a god, freewill, heaven and a hell and the intricacies, so associated without actual possession or experience.
Freewill is an illusion, a claim to a perceived and preferential status of existence. It is akin to the claim that the earth is the center of the universe, which it is not.
If you assert, by your definition, an all-knowing god, past, present and future; freewill cannot exist, as "--each hair on your head is numbered.". If freewill does exist and this god is unaware of your future, he/she or it is not all-knowing and not much of a god.
Our individual lives are pretty much controlled by our DNA and our initial nurturing and of both you were left out of the equation. You were not consulted. You had no say, no free choice. You did not choose gender, intelligence, strength, talent or insight or the degree of which you can reason, the parents you were born to, the country, the epoch or even a sense of humor.
I would be interested in any rebuttal, as I am always open to a different epistemology.
lone77--sent you an e-mail on your contacts
You have an interesting profile. A delight to converse with you.
if free will is an illusion, then you were not free to write this comment, and im not free to respond. we are just being controlled by our DNA. is that your position?
Kabbalists (those who wrote the Bible and their modern counterparts) explain that free will doesn't exist for most things. We are hardwired to take the selfish choice. In this, we are a mechanical and predictable cog in the machine. Where we truly have free will is in choosing between selfishness and altruism (ego and spirit).
Evil is ego. Ego was our decision to turn away from the light and to become blind to the spiritual side of things. Ego made us dependent upon physical methods of perception and control.
We chose Ego, long ago. Now that we have Homo sapiens bodies, we have the ability to work out our return to spirituality ... or not. Free will.
Free will is a choice of one person but be careful of what we choose everything that of selfish desires belongs to the devil. Free will is significant of being obedient to GOD. If we prayed: Thy will be done on earth as in it heaven, everything on earth including us... HIS will be done!
Good and evil are two sides of the same coin. You cannot have one without the other. How can you call something good if it has no opposite? Compared to what? That said, good and evil are mere illusions of the mind. The reality is the space or nothingness. Whatever appears, disappears into the void or the nothing. So everything is a concept. With no concepts, what is there? An appearance. The so called evil is a physical phenomena or opinion. In the invisible or spiritual world, things happen and yet not happen. Meaning, there is no harm. Just like a cartoon person falls into a well 100 feet deep, then gets up and goes about his business as though nothing happened. Spirit is not confined to experiences. Someone can do an act, and be on Jupiter in a split second. There is no time or space in the spirit world. So even with the intention of evil, nothing really happens. It disappears into nothing immediately. On the earth, what appears to be the end is really just a new beginning on another level of existence. So good and evil are both irrelevant to the eternal. People on the earth are just making noise with their thoughts about what appears to be happening. Regardless of how things disappear, "THEY ALL WILL DISAPPEAR". There is no escaping that, whether they appear to be good or evil.
Some people are sick. For example, few people take medication because they see things or they get scare. Doctors call it . Mental conditions. For those that have behavior's problems. Some people give them selves mental conditions. Because they have evil spirit inside them selves. They are bad in our society. I feel bad for them. Evil exist all around us. Some people feel good, and they have protection after they are baptized. Baptist changes your path. Free will is good to have.Every day we get test with the good and bad around us. A prayer is always good.
Free will is what makes us human and unique. Without it we are merely doll or puppets for god to play with. In my opinion evil is all a matter of perspective. Evil things can be done for a good cause or good things can be done for evil purposes. Behind every action there is purpose. Free will creates evil? It may but it creates good too. But my point is that good and evil coexist and that categorizing evil and good is just a means to divide mankind and differentiate different beliefs by calling each other evil.
i dont think evil is a necessary by product of free will. i think free will explains why people do evil things.
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