Why can't atheists and believers leave each other alone to not believe or believe?
Why is it that atheists (not all, some) continuously question believers about their belief and vice versa; why do believers (not all, some) feel they have to justify their belief? Surely if you don't believe in God then you should just get on with live without God and if you do believe in God then just get on with life with God.
Good question, why bother what they say as long you stay firm with your religion, if they don't believe in god, ignore them
Well it seem to be that easy for believers , but Jesus set the pattern and first century Christians , when Jesus arrived what was he known for ? Notice ,
Joh 3:2 This one came to him in the night and said to him: “Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.”
Notice teacher a great one from heaven.
When he arrived there was plenty of work to do in so little time , many things had to be said and done to establish truth that the religious system at that time was distorted
and burdensome to poor and many others.
Christians or followers of Jesus have a direct command to continue what he started.
Notice. Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you.
Joh 14:23 In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.
Mt 28:20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
we are in the conclusion of things, this verse is being fulfilled as we speak.
This is a world wide work that has been carried out for so many generations soon to come to its completion.
A command it is because lives depend on it
To be directed to the True God and his son
Ro 10:14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?
Real genuine followers of Jesus would be doing this work as commanded
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching.
This is our life to listen and follow Jesus words.
I appreciate your answer, it's very detailed. It's all the commanding, teaching and preaching you mention that I struggle with. I doubt I could be friends or follow with anyone that commanded anything of me. It seems a bit like brain washing.
Well when you think about it Gabriel , Jesus loved us first. He gave up a fleshy life to buy us extended life , for all humans
If some one donated a heart, donated a kidney, or vital organ to keep you living
Would you think that was brain washing ?
Of course I wouldn't because it's not. I'd be instructed how the operation is going to go and how I must live after to ensure the donated organ has the best survival odds. Sorry I'm not seeing the connection here, and I have thought about it.
Gabriel the connection is Jesus Used his whole fleshly body to buy us entrance into
The New earth spoken of at 2Peter 3:13,
His body was given as a gift for us to pay off sin and death we inherit at birth.
Agree how greatful a person would be.
You are certainly very passionate about your beliefs and I respect that. I also respect the way you answer, you do it in a positive non condescending tone. I think I would enjoy talking to you about religion and believing. Tanx for that KT.
Thank you Gabriel it is very refreshing talking to you. I am always open to discussions with you anytime. Thanks again.
The reason many atheists, including myself, talk about religion and explain why we don't believe it is because many of us see religion as harmful to individuals and society as a whole and see religious claims as false. I believe a less religious world would be a better world. If religion's supernatural claims are both false and lead to harmful behaviors than it makes sense to speak out against religion.
Now atheists are not going door to door like Jehovah's Witnesses, most vocal atheists are merely stating their opinions (be it in youtube videos, articles here on hubpages, forums, etc) and aren't actively picking "fights" with believers. People are allowed to believe whatever they want but if those beliefs are harmful or false than others have the right, under Free Speech, to speak out.
Many atheists used to be believers, including myself. The way I see it I escaped a dangerous cult when I left Christianity behind, it would be wrong of me to not speak out against a cult that has enthralled close to 2 billion of my fellow human beings.
From the believer side it depends on the religion. Christianity has numerous passages about going forth and preaching to all the Earth, it's the Great Commission that Jesus gave before ascending. It also has passages about defending the faith when asked or challenged on it:
"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," 1 Peter 3:15
To Gabriel , In this case all of Jesus human parts were valuble to all humans through many generations , life a policy to cover your life now , or if you die. You can live again , no man can give us that coverage but Jesus who is God's own son.
Okay K and T, but who is going to save you from the punishment of Zeus? I feel sorry for you having to suffer eternally in Tartarus.
Zeus is not the God I worship , I worship the God of Abraham the God of Isaac, the God of Moses and David, the true and living God
connected to Jesus.
You are talking about a foreign entity that has done nothing for humans but exist as decoy.
No K and T, you are talking about the false god. Zeus far pre-dates Jesus. He is the rightful ruler of all mankind, and one day, at his mercy in the pit of Tartarus you will realize how wrong you were. Or is the subtlety of my point lost on you?
TIten I did not say Jesus was my God , My God is YHWH, Jehovah, Jesus is my Messiah , my savior and King of the New Government we are going to enter.
You're missing my point. To someone else you are destined for their Hell, and there's is the correct religion, the unique and one true faith. But to me they all sound equally ridiculous. Hades, Tartarus, Heaven, Asgard, Hell, Adlivun, Valhalla, etc.
Well that just it I am not living for some one else , I am responsible for my own choices and decisions , each person is , not based on one's opinion but what is by God's and Jesus.
Titen, God has ALWAYS existed. He predates Zeus by far.
Gabriel how greatful we would be if some one saved our life by donation. Jesus donation was of greater value being a prince by the name Micheal God's first Angel. His donation has saved generations of people even one dies they can live again.
Peoples examples of alot of rude responses here on HP happens all the time. And why do you think people care enough about how people feel about the subject, because it is a good reason that involves life, all life is precious.
And there is hope.
Dear Faisal, I really think you should read up on your no harm religion theory; it is non sensical. Look at the Cathar communities: wiped out because of their religion or in their case their choices in life. Then the Jews; Masada. That was awful.
I have yet to hear an atheist going door to door questioning believers, yet at least once a week a believer knocks on my door to tell me I am living the wrong way. I have yet to see atheists at my local festivals holding up anti religion signs, yet I see "Christians" holding their hate signs at every local festival I take my children to. I have not heard of atheists in my area passing out anti religion booklets on street corners, yet EVERY time I go downtown some Christian is on a corner pushing christian booklets at anyone who goes by including children.
With that said the only real place I ever see atheist expressing their opinions is online. Laws are made in the name of a God I don't believe exists. People are hurt in the name of religion. Wars are started because of "my religion is right and yours is wrong" mentality. I would think we deserve as much of right to voice our opinions as believers.
If someone is going to devote their lives to something based on only faith, quoting from a book as their only proof, using the same book to tell others what they should or should not do, and damning anyone who believes different then they should be able to have an intellectual conversation about that belief if asked.
When it comes down to it, most atheist would never care what anyone else believed as long as it had ZERO impact on others.
Also TIten when did this deity die or paid a price for our future? , when did he suffer at the hands of humans and satan ? Nowhere in history can you find that in the name zeus. He is a mythical god.Jehovah is real
With genealogy history and records
Peoples - I admire your logic and your open mind in these matters. To me it's still a mystery why any sane person can't see it happening everywhere.
Peoples you express yourself very well, and I do respect that,
But from the outset you start off with what atheist don't do, I disagree with that, I have met some as examples and they certainly have not proven why I should agree with them,
I think there are certain subjects that two strangers can never know about each other and be perfectly content with. If I never find out what your favorite sandwich is (even if I like a different sandwich) it won't keep me awake at night. Nor would I really want to discuss the merits of our sandwich choices.
These are the kinds of things that we don't wear on our sleeves, trivial choices that have no impact on other people. But, I've come to realize that religion and atheism do not fall into this category. They aren't trivial choices, we do wear them on our sleeves, and they certainly have an impact on other people.
If I'm an atheist and I see churches on every corner, prayers at every event, and laws favoring one religion, I'm going to want to talk about why. And, if I'm a believer, and I see court battles over my nativity scene or the statue of the ten commandments, I'm going to want to talk about it too.
I actually think it's very important to have a dialogue on this topic. Not because I want to judge your personal choice, but because we all need to come to a consensus of what impact that choice has on other people.
Your last paragraph speaks volumes and brings a perspective in my opinion that both choices could learn from. Thank you for that.
link what is this person thinking and respect of your belongings.the earth was here when we arrived, maybe at present it is open season to do as you wish , but that comes to an end.Just as you would remind the person they have overstep their limits
Good question, i believe like any other difference in opinions you either like the person or not but not based soley a belief,opinion ext.
I wish that was true for everyone: imagine how the world would be!
To Soyraya. This is the very case and situation, but many times the evidence given does not move them from the heart to say this is enough proof.
some people will not change even though they have been given truth, they will say prove. When you have.
Seeing as how being an atheist or otherwise not a christian may very well have gotten you executed only a few hundred years ago, it might be a stretch to say that now because they cant have atheists hauled off to jail or to death (in the US anyway) is the reason believers complain about being persecuted.
On a more probable note, atheists are not the majority assuming that they know better than everyone else. Believers are. Atheists are not the majority trying to use their holy books to justify spreading hate. Believers are. Atheists are the ones that actually have laws in some states preventing them from taking office or serving their country. Believers have no such thing to my knowledge. Taking any of those into account, I would imagine anyone would ask a believer to back themselves up with facts.
With that said, not every discussion between an atheist and a theist is warranted. Some are just out to harass others because they want to, and thats true for both sides.
The weird thing about that is, at least here on HP, the only time I see a believer complain about how atheists should just shut up if they dont believe in god is directly after they just got done not being able to answer an atheist's questions about their own religion.
If it were as simple as "Oh you dont believe in god? Okay have a nice day", the world would be a much better place...
No doubt there are valid points here. Perhaps it's true that some on both sides are just out to harass the other and maybe that's what I witness, it makes sense. And of course a better world is probably to much to ask for.
Link,The problem is as example you have a guest in your house they enjoy your house
Even what's in it , then they even feel at home and decide go say take your Big screen and set it outside in the yard ,
First you as owner is just wondering what?
For some reason this question made me immediately think of the couch potato who watches endless TV shows and laps up every mass media type news story. That is a bummer of a life. Folks who argue and debate theology and science are alive and well and working that great big old brain. Hooray for them!
Folks with convictions getting all worked up over their particular view and articulating it and trying to convince others of it are real people living life to a fullness. If it gets tiresome sometimes or down right ugly, I just think about the poor folks who are depressed and do not have the umph to give a darn about it. Opinions are like rectums, every one has one and I would surely rather see their opinions than the other. But nothing is as sad as someone who does not have one on the subject of God. Whether we believe or not, just the mental exercise of thinking about God is stimulating. It is good for us. And sharing those thoughts is the next indicated step. Hopefully we are social creatures and interaction is a whole lot better than isolation and loneliness.
I am a hardcore Christian. I constantly seek contact with Jesus. I love Jesus. And it is really healthy for me to have folks question that belief. It is good for me to have to evaluate and reflect on my beliefs and in fact defend them. I need the prodding to stay in tune and not complacent. And I am always thankful to have someone point out the science of why things are and how nature works. I learn a lot.
I surely do hope that we never stop exercising our freedom of debate over such really important stuff.
Excuse me now I must go read some scripture, meditate and pray.
Hi Eric, I say with no malice meant. I am a little dissapointed with some of the things you've said. There are many things in life to discuss & explore. Perhaps my life is too full to worry about those who get worked up over (not discuss) religio
Tamra, I would not want to be reminded of this by a higher authority as not being accepted, most humans today have rejected the counsel of God , better even to ignore it, live as you please. But the world is already reflecting decay from seperation
If you live in peace with yourself, mind and heart you won't wake around questioning people on their beliefs. Atheists do so because they are trapped within 2 worlds, the one where God exist and the one that God doesn't. They want a proof from anywhere to ease their hearts.
They have hatred within themselves because the world is such a bad place. They blame what they run away from.
Atheist strongly believe that religions are the main reason for a disaster world. But I believe that with or without religions we would have the same world of disaster. Simply because inside humans there battles and psychological problems...A human being is a complex species
Because both sides seek to spread their ideologies and belief systems. In some regards, it is like many social movements like political parties seek to convert people to their belief systems.
The only difference is that atheists and the religious are exactly opposite in beliefs, and the disagreements tend to be visceral.
From the outside view of one who does not know who is right or wrong , I agree, but the right choice is defined by ones way of living ,that seems to come first, this matter more then truth Example if I lie alot, I would not want to be reminded
I agree with the sentiment stated above, but it is not always easy to practise.
Try being an atheist in Saudi Arabia or any of the 13 Muslim countries round the world where it is regarded as apostasy and hence a capital offence.
Even in the secular West, Christian groups pressure lawmakers to pass laws which follow strictly Christian principles, and make a lot of noise in the public sphere if any law is passed which they do not like.
Recently Germany's Chancellor (the daughter of a Protestant pastor) decided that Germans should accept over a million refugees on the principle that it was "a good Christian thing to do!". Note that 38% of the German population are sceptics! I also agree that the refugees should be helped, but the proportions involved here are ridiculous, and the load could and should be spread more evenly.
And getting Muslims to accept that when they move to the West they have to be obey the civil law (check out the large number of criminals in jail in France and Sweden from Muslim immigrant backgrounds) and that Shariah law does not apply (nor should it!)? Not easy!
Religious believers can go on practising their beliefs in private for all I care, but they also should appreciate the requirement to live and let live.
All too often it is not the case, and I would not like to quote how many Christians try to convert me (I am an ex-Christian who knows the Bible extremely well - it is a book of inconsistent myths based upon an unprovable God) whether online or at the front door.
And they should also acknowledge the significance of the civil law which serves in a fair manner the needs of all people, believers or otherwise.
Those who badger non-believers need to read what St. Paul says about those who refuse to listen. If we believers make our faith repugnant to people, we are doing the devil's work for him.
Love, love, love! Live your joy so others are drawn to you. Stay away from judging. That is NOT a believer's job. Share once, and if rebuffed, shake off the dust from your feet. Do not slam the door in people's faces; let them know your door is open -- keep it ajar. If people seek, direct them to those who can answer their questions. One may be a great Biblical scholar, but if he is not gifted to proselytize, he needs to find other ways to use his gifts.
Unless you are prepared to deal with rejection & even violence, honor God by being the best representative you can be. Living your faith & not being a hypocrite is powerful. And always, love, love, love! THAT is something all believers should do!
The earth is a place of duality where opposite attracts and create the middle path of the Buddha and the Christ's straight way with the narrow gate when they come together. They are like the hours between first light to sunrise and sunset to dark is a thin and straight line around the earth. Atheist is one half and religion the other as is Science and philosophy (the love of wisdom) so without exploring both one will never cross the middle path to recognize they are different sides of the subject. The atheist and religious are attracted too each other but are not willing, actually spiritually hindered (Isaiah 45:7) from crossing over until it is their time to become the middle path.
That is a great question. We all have different experiences, which lead to different ways of looking at life. I don't understand why people can't always have rational and respectful discussions. We can't force people to change. But I don't think there is any problem with everyone being able to discuss it if they can do it without getting overly emotional.
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