I'm an atheist, and even though I'm a generally good person (volunteer at an animal shelter, nice to people, generous, etc.), I've been told I'm going to hell simply because I don't take part in any religion. I'm really not trying to start a fight or argument, I'm really just curious- why are atheists hated so much?
I personally think there are a large group of atheists that want to feel persecuted. I have no idea where this'hated' belief comes from. Why would anyone hate someone else for a personal belief?
I agree that some atheists want to be hated so they can rip on religious people more, but I've lost a few friends because they hate my atheism. Religion can occasionally pose a problem, but complete lack of religion? Who is that hurting, really?
Personally, I think it's because one's atheism is a threat to people who are religious. They have to face the fact that they might be wrong. That is too fearful to contemplate.
This stuff doesn't happen in Europe, the UK or even SA. One's religion is one's own business - and so is one's atheism.
It doesn't happen in Australia either. We have hundreds of religions here that are well tolerated, but if they try the tactics that Americans use to flog it in the street anywhere, they soon get the rejection they so strongly desire.
According to believers, atheists are in league with Satan, are evil and must be hated, because their gods hate evil and are in a constant battle with Satan.
Atheists are interested in learning and understanding the world around them, they want to help mankind in any way they can. Believers despise learning and understanding and only see the world around them according to their beliefs. They despise mankind as they are all evil sinners requiring salvation.
Then, you'll hear them say such ridiculous things as:
"I personally think there are a large group of atheists that want to feel persecuted."
To some "believers" everyone who doesn't believe the exact same thing they do is in league with Satan. Atheists are not, and shouldn't feel, singled out.
According to the FBI, hate crimes against atheists comprise less than 1% of those directed for religious reasons:
Considering that probably over 10% of Americans are atheist, I would say that atheists are not being especially singled out among other religious minorities.
And saying that atheists "want to help mankind in any way they can" and "are interested in learning and understanding the world around them" is really a meaningless generalization, and sounds, dare I say, evangelical?
No one said atheists were singled out. I understand that believers feel anyone who doesn't agree with their religion is in league with their version of evil.
Yes, notice that those hate crimes are religiously motivated, one religious group acting out towards another. And, even though the statistics for hate crimes against atheists is small, they still do exist.
Can you show any statistics for hate crimes that are motivated by atheism?
So, where is the ardent zealotry in that statement if you believe it to be evangelical and at the same time a meaningless generalization?
No, those statistics don't seem to imply anything whatsoever about the religious belief of the perpetrators. You can rely on data, or, in the absence of data, choose to believe something you want to believe.
As I've said before in different threads, this is always your choice.
As to your final question: I see ardent zealotry over meaningless generalizations all the time. Or do you agree that evangelical Christians are just motivated by love and compassion for their fellow man, too?
From your link:
"For each hate crime offense type reported, law enforcement must indicate at least one bias motivation. A single-bias incident is defined as an incident in which one or more offense types are motivated by the same bias."
Evangelical Christians are motivated by their indoctrination, love and compassion for their fellow man have nothing to do with it. If it did, they wouldn't evangelize their religion.
Yes, a single-bias incident is one that is motivated by one bias (anti-Jewish only, anti-homosexual only, etc.) as opposed to multiple biases (anti-black and anti-Muslim, etc.)
This still does not imply anything about the religion (or other "reason") of the perpetrators, only of the victims.
From your link:
Law enforcement agencies reported 1,376 hate crimes motivated by religious bias."
Yes, bias against religion. Most of them against Jews; only a handful against atheists.
I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble wrapping your head around these statistics. Confirmation bias?
Perhaps, you are unable to wrap your head around the term, bias in that those who are committing the crimes have a "biased" view of another religion.
The statistics do not reveal whether or not the offender was atheist or not, which is a point I would concede.
So, the question is who are the perpetrators of those crimes, atheists or other believers?
I absolutely am able to. You, belatedly, have been able to, as well.
As to the religion of the perpetrators: I don't know. As an atheist, I'd imagine you'd prefer to not guess anything in the absence of any evidence, but, ultimately, that's your choice.
I would be inclined to further research who the perpetrators are and their motivations.
For example, the 'Southern Poverty Law Center...
... has has designated several Christian groups as hate groups including American Family Association, Family Research Council, Abiding Truth Ministries, American Vision, Chalcedon Foundation, Dove World Outreach Center, and Traditional Values Coalition, Creativity Movement (formerly World Church of the Creator), Aryan Nations, Nation of Islam and the Westboro Baptist Church.
Here's another lengthy list of hate groups designated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_or … ate_groups
I'm not disputing that at all.
But what is your point? That the existence of many hate groups with an explicit religious affiliation means all hate crimes for religious bias are committed by religious people?
Do you see any atheist affiliations or groups committing those acts with an atheist bias?
Are atheists dominant in American society?
Why are there lots of Hindu hate groups in India but none in America?
Why are there Buddhist hate groups in Sri Lanka but none in America?
Why are there Jewish hate groups in Israel but none in America?
That does not appear to be the case.
Oh-oh, are you sure about that? Would you care to re-evaluate that claim before I begin listing those hate groups and the anti-Hindu hate groups in America, as well?
Again, you should probably rethink your claims before the lists of those hate groups appear on these forums. Try to do the research first and you'll find plenty of evidence.
Let's start this over again.
You're pointing out that there are a lot of Christian-affiliated hate groups that attack non-Christians in America, and wondering why there aren't any atheist-affiliated hate groups that attack religious people in America.
There are Hindu-affiliated hate groups that attack non-Hindus in India, but none in America.
There are Buddhist-affiliated hate groups that attack non-Buddhists in Sri Lanka, but none in America.
There are a lot of Jewish-affiliated hate groups that attack non-Jews in Israel, but none in America.
(All clear now?)
Why is that?
Yet, there are Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish affiliated hate groups in America just like there are in the countries that spawned them. All clear now?
I fell off my chair laughing. This is humor at its best.
Absolutely loved it.
I think some religious people feel threatened by atheism - perhaps in their heart of hearts they're not all that sure themselves.
Mind, I also think that this may have something to do with the fact you live live in a very religiously inclined country; I'm from the UK so I generally go weeks of my life without ever hearing anyone invoke god, or even meet anyone who's religious.
I do not have a single friend who would identify themselves as religious - except perhaps for a few foreign colleagues. This tends to be the case across most of Europe, in my experience.
I have a friend from Sweden and although she was raised Catholic ,she is quite open-minded and less likely to fly off the handle discussing Religion.
My nephew once raised in a Christian home ,now voices Athiesm loud and clear ..
I love them both, and neither of us have to be right.
Respect is a good thing.
You're a Kiwi though aren't you? So the majority around you must also be pretty atheist. Not sure I've ever met a religious Kiwi and the Swedes are about as atheist as it comes.
The census is being done this week in the UK so it'll be interesting to see what results it comes up with in terms of religousity. Having said that, the cesus skews the results considerably in favour of the umbers of people professing to a religous affiliation.
For the record, I put myself down as Pastafarian.
No Wags the majority are not Atheist oh gosh
Religion in New Zealand is dominated demographically by Christianity. (Wiki)
It is a mixed Western country ,what more can I say.
Actually my last post was to point out that having different beliefs is never a reason to hate.
Obviously I agree with you, you shouldn't hate anybody irrationally.
New Zealand is probably going to have less than 50% of respondants to this year's census professing to Christianity - that's what the trends say. "No religion" was ticked 26.2% more in 2006 than 2001! That's a big shift. They also excluded "Jedi" from the counting (as they did also in the UK) - in NZ this was 1.5% of the population!
I'm off to NZ at the end of the year, incidentally - not that this has anythig to do with religion!
Worry not - they soon will be. I understand the education system there has improved a lot recently. Most of educated Europe now rejects the idea of a god. Except the Italians of course.
In any case - We don't hate you. We love you - we just hate your ridiculous war mongering beliefs.
Good to see you dropped the hillbilly speke.
I think the Poles, Irish and Portuguese might have something to say about that!
The census results that we go on are skewed massively towards professing a religious belief too; I suspect of people were properly asked on the idea, they'd say they we ireligious.
I'm a kiwi too, and would say the majority are atheist, not practising christians
Is that just your opinion or do you have any stats to back up your statement BB?
it's my opinion, but go ahead and back it up with stats. I wouldn't believe census stats where everyone that was forced to go to church occasionally ticked 'christian'. I did see an interesting billboard last time I was in NZ though. Said something like '1.8 million people don't believe....get over it' - can't remember exact number & wording
I have already backed up some stats (from Wiki) on a previous post.
However I dont consider Wiki to be the best authority per se.
My comment at the time was regarding something that Wags had said assuming that New Zeaaland was an atheist nation ( or becoming one).
His assumption was just that and quite random
I do agree that nations who claim to Christian perhaps base that assumption on their creeds and allegiance ,more so than on census data.
Queen-Church Of England etc.
here's some of those billboards I was talking about
read somewhere that a third of kiwis don't believe in god - my guess is a third to a half don't
Yea I read alot of things too.
The billboards were interesting (paid for by an American business),guess they were getting in behind the lil kiwis and drumming up some support.
The media classified and places the news in their 'Odd' News section
My guess would be higher - it is the case in the UK in any case. The census doesn't allow for people affiliating themselves with a particular group because of its lack of detail:
I would imagine so too. It depends on what boxes there are to tick. Some people might want to tick 'believe in god' but they never go to church, pray or do anything to practise a faith.
Most people in NZ have UK ancestory
The point you made earlier BB was that New Zealand was predominately Athiest. That is not correct.
Now you are saying ,well that are not real Christians either.
It would be good if you backed up your statements ,without throw away comments.
I too ,know many people who dont go to church,so what?. Going to church doesnt make you a Christian either.
here's a link showing increase of non-belief in god(s) vs decrease in belief from past census results
http://sminhinnick.wordpress.com/2010/1 … ive-years/
You were right that 50% or so of Kiwis claim a christian affiliation; but I was not randomly pointing out that new zealand is becoming an atheist country, and it wasn't just an assumption.
The post I opened a few days ago included a scientific report covered by the BBC which discussed the extinction of religion in nine countries; including NZ.
If the census trends in NZ are continued into the future then there's little doubt that christianity there will all but die out (a 26% fall in the 5 years between the 2001 and 2006 census).
You're right about affiliations, but this skews the census data in favour of religions where people try to identify with a particular group. Take the example of my partner; she is non-religious, never visits a gurdwara and doesn't believe in god - however she writes "Sikh" on her census form because that's who she feels closest affiliated with because of her background.
This is why the British Humanist society have been having a go at the govt - as more detailed information suggests around 2/3 of british are areligious, rather than the 1/3 suggested in the census:
You may be right ,or at least the BBC, I dont know if Id put all my faith in stats however.
That being said ,and along the same lines as stats,the Churches are full and still seen to be active.
What is more noticable ,at least in many evangelical churches are the broad section of age-groups.
I dont know how many churches any of you guys have actually been to in the last 10 yrs ,but they are rocking, and numbers are on the up.
Another point worthy of noting is that Jesus predicted the world would become more into themselves, than into Him in the end times.
So perhaps your stats could also be expected as well.
God is God ,Supreme Being.
I am confident nothing will surprise him about mankind.
my personal opinion is from people I've known. When I was at university 20-odd years ago, there were very few christians studying science with me. The few that were, were indoctrinated like before going to uni. There were more christians and people of other faiths in subjects other than science.
When I went to teachers college a decade ago, there were only a few christians in my classes. Also a few mormons.
Contrast when I went to school - slightly more christians, some jehovah witnesses etc. In various workplaces in NZ, I have come across very few christians, a hindu, and can't really recall any others. Hubby has come across some JWs in his workplaces. In Australia, I've come across a few 'traditional' christians at private school that treated me like sh#t. Also an ex-christian & ex-catholic.
Maybe others were religious, but they certainly didn't make it known.
When I was in my christian 'bubble', everyone seemed like a christian,because that's who other christians hang out with. I expect people in the bible belt of the US would feel like this too
I agree Kiwi, The majority is not atheist. The statistics show it's only 10% of atheists.
All humans should be respected whether they believe in a religion or they don't believe in one.
Only the Creator-God will judge everybody, rightfully.
I think because right from the start, not having respect for God and his words are classified as immoral. It's not that easy to break into that type of mind set because that is the "truth" presented to people at a very early age and not a whole lot of people are around against this train of thought. To believers, telling them that God is not real is like saying murder is good. To them, the way they are is what the world should be.
I'm an atheist but I don't feel that we're the "most" hated minority. Perhaps it's a regional thing, certain parts of the US and certain regions in other countries can be very religious. While certainly we are an oft overlooked or maligned minority I don't think we're the most hated. I think that gays, for instance, still go through far more persecution than atheists do especially when they are young and especially in those same regions that persecute atheists.
We are so against the grain that people look at us in disgust, I think too that Atheism, for some reason, is automatically associated with devil worship, I know that sounds absurd but at least in my experiance it has been.
What cracks me up is that people look at me like I am going to hell too, tell me that they will pray for me, when I am more faithful to my "religion" then they are.
I always thopught the idea was; "Hate the Sin, love the Sinner..?" Guess as Christians all that goes out the window when Sunday school is over..!
Interesting question, very
Atheists ... to me are pitiable ...
For they were not Taught about The Truth of Reality ... or, maybe, their circumstances, did not allow them the opportunity ... of seeing things, in their true perspective.
I can only Hope, God gives you the Courage, and the Knowledge, to See, because, its a matter of Destiny.
A long, long time ago when I was young and going to school, the bus used to pass a building with a big sign reading 'Atheist Church.' I'm not making this up and I always wondered what they did in there, gather on Sunday and not worship god.
Please note the small 'g'. I'm not into god singular and one of. If there can be one there can be lots, but I don't hate atheists and don't know anyone who does. As for some idiot telling you that you're going to hell, the name Lucifer means Light Bringer. Light is synonymous with knowledge and wisdom denoting Lucifer's task as one of bringing knowledge to mankind. Have a bite from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. It's those that tell you you're going to hell that worship a god whose priests tell you he's a god of mystery and not for mankind to understand.
Here's the question, How can you have faith in a mystery you can't understand because faith without knowledge has no foundation?
I dont have a faith in a mystery.
I have a faith and relationship in a living ,loving God,and I do understand it, in everyday events to the more complex.
God is not a burden ,his ways are light and easy.
I believe He died for me and rose again on the 3rd day.
I believe he cares about me (and my fellow man) and is indeed interested in the affairs of man.
I accept that many things affect why and how I come to make any decision in my life as Im everyone does.
If the athiests calls it indoctrination ,what process /name/title does he assign himself.......why........double standard?
No I was created with a purpose and am as unique as every snowflake that ever fell ( as you are too)
Why we are so unique that not one human is alike. Our thumbprint is like God date stamped us himself.
Just too many 'wow' moments on how we are all wired,to say ,we came from nothing ,mean nothing ,going back to nothing.
What intelligent mind would accept that even for a second?
"I don't understand where I came from, but I am too special not to live forever, therefore god dunnit and I do not no wot god is but I no it good."
Think of yourself as a grain of sand on the beach.
Education will eventually destroy your religion. Someone said "There are no religious people - just people who do not understand physics."
The intelligent mind that understands that everything we are is stored in our brains, which will rot quickly once we are dead.
Nobody should hate anyone Atheist or Non-Atheist maybe one day all of us will get along.
what do you mean by atheist no one is atheist, every one here have faith in something some have in God and try to understand him by reading different scriptures of the world.
Please ready any scripture from any religion than you will understand who is god.
better to start with Bhagvad Gita As it is you may get it in your country.
May lord bless you
I think they're pretty cool too haha but apparently we're the most hated minority, even below gays/lesbians, jews, muslims, literally everyone
Atheism is the opposite side of the same coin of Christianity, and all sub-sects derived from the bible.
Depending on what Country you are in, also factors on whether or not, Atheism is a recognized religion, in and of, itself.
Atheism is classified under religion, because it's derived from the existence of religion. If religion didn't exist, then Atheism would have never been born.
Either way, both sides conflict in a manner, not easy to overcome.
Who hates atheists? Atheists, of course. That's the whole point.
I'm a Christian and I certainly don'y hate atheists. I haven't really heard of anyone else in my area hating them either, a lot of people nowadays are atheists. In fact, my girlfriend is an atheist.
I don't hate 'em. I hate that intangible thing called ignorance. Know some ignorant christian type folk also. A minister I know flipped out because I said water evaporates (REALLY!) I consider intolerance to be ignorant, and many atheists seem to be as intolerant as some christians. As to myself? I believe that the early church was following the wrong guys, so, tend to be classed with the atheists as blasphemers by most areas of the modern christian faith. That is why I don't capitalize christian, not because I am grammatically insensitive.
Have I entered after the 'this is why your religion causes wars' post yet?
Hate is a very strong word.
My goodness not agreeing with a fellow human being is hardly a reason to hate.
And I have to say (not in defence of critism) but why would you be worried about going to a place (Hell) that you dont beleive in anyway?
There are many Christians being persecuted right now ( witnessing in Communist lands),yet they dont express hate for anyone.
In some people hating is a natural reaction when it comes to being lied to. I think Atheists are upset about believers because the christian belief is affecting the world in so many negative ways that it affects the way people live and what the people have to put up with. It is also to my understanding that Atheists get offended when the truth is being bent and twisted in so many ways that it might as well be a slap to somebody's face.
I think there's a general misconception that atheists are lazy troublemakers. Some people actually believe that atheists just don't want to go to church. The odd thing is, the atheists that I know also happen to know more about world religions that the religious people I know.
I know people who post (or, more often than not, re-post) Christian messages on their Facebook pages every day who couldn't name 8 books of the Bible. They couldn't even tell me some basic facts about the life of Jesus as stated in the Bible other than what they know from Christmas and Easter services.
The proud ignorance that I see displayed every day by some of my fellow Americans is what made me start questioning my own faith in the first place. I saw people who delighted in the fact that they didn't know some of the basics of the religion they claimed to be a devout follower of. "It's ok to not know these things, because I have faith". That's ok when the question is "what is the meaning of life?", but when the question is about basic facts taught in Sunday school the ignorance was just too much for me to tolerate.
As I grew older, I began to see how this blind faith manifested itself in every day life. Why is it that atheists have lower teen pregnancy rates than Christians in the United States? Shouldn't the atheists be out having orgies every night, since all they care about is themselves and having fun? Why are atheists more likely to go to college? Isn't a further pursuit of knowledge a noble and "godly" goal?
I don't even mind that religious folks don't like me, as long as they don't try to make it official policy to discriminate against me. Don't force me to pray to your god. Don't force me to make an oath on your book. Don't use my tax money to put "In God We Trust" placards on every federal building in the country.
Agreed mate. I'm an atheist, but I love learning about religion - it absololutely fascinates me.
Religious sites are always extremely impressive and I think if religion leaves behind anything then it is the places of worship which will be most impressive.
I think this is where people tend to get atheism wrong; I'm atheist, but it doesn't mean I shut myself off from religion for the sheer hell of it. I've even got a couple of hubs on here aboute cargo cults ad a cathedral near where I live!
I've always been fascinated by cargo cults. For one, they show how easily a population can be fooled by what they see. Also, it's interesting to observe how a religion evolves when we know for a certainty that it's beliefs are wrong (well, unless Prince Philip really is a God).
That's because some of the faithful are unsure about their beliefs and when they meet someone who is comfortable without need for any religion they can't take it as it seems perplexing to them to say the least. And the easiest way to react is through hate.
Well, I live in the south. I wasn't all like "hey I'm an atheist" when we moved to this rural area, but since everybody is constantly urging you to come to their church, I soon told one woman whom I had become fairly close with. Our daughters were best friends.
Directly after I revealed to her that I didn't believe in her religion, and no, she and her pastor and her bible study group could not change my mind, everything changed. She told others as well, and I've been sitting here alone ever since.
Now I know what you guys are thinking. You guys are thinking I was a bitch to her about it, and I don't blame you for thinking that. But it was actually after that when I began to really develop the charming personality you see now.
I'm not bitter, I'm not angry, I understand that the stronger must overlook the sins of the weaker. I do know full well I did nothing wrong, and am hated for merely rejecting their religion and confessing to atheism.
I can't claim what happened to me as a hate crime, can I? I can't add that to any statistics. It wasn't a crime, but I was wronged. Love and hate aren't feelings, they're actions. I was hatefully wronged.
I've been involved in the last year with some efforts to make the democrat party at least a presence within our county again. We have no illusions. Our aim is merely to open up the conversation. Places like this are isolated, incubated hell holes. If they could, they'd close the schools and run mexicans, gays, atheists, muslims, and catholics out of town.
Hard to believe, I know, but this is america.
Feeling all proud yet?
I live in a small southern town. I'm sorry you are unhappy, but this is kind of what I'm talking about. I don't think you were ostracized because you invoked the word atheism. I have made it clear, in no uncertain terms, to anyone that thought I should go to church that it might happen if hell froze over. I didn't say atheist. I just said no. What had appeared to be friendships ceased. This has nothing to do with religion, except that it's a clique you chose not to join as I do. I had the same reaction to the women of the garden club when I laughed at the offfer to join. That's just women.
Still denying reality, I see, indoctrination is strong in this one.
I have asked you, as politely as possible, to stop saying that.
Please. If you believe me to be denying reality, explain what reality you can see here. Since you aren't here. You're there. Wherever there is. Which isn't here. So how would you know?
You are denying the reality of believers who ostracize and alienate those who do not share their religious beliefs.
Well, since you asked politely, I won't refer to the obvious cause of your lack of synthesis.
Stop it Beelzedad. You can't take statements from two different posts like that. It's unfair. They didn't belong together. I try to be nice and what do I get? Sorely mistreated it seems.
Yes, I'm miles and miles away from you, yet mistreating you. Hilarious.
Look. If you think people mistreat you wherever you are, how come you don't give them a hard time too?
While I understand you would believe I should stoop to the believers level of ignorance and delusion for revenge, it is clearly an action that does not work.
Eye for eye?
I don't understand. Whay does that mean?
I didn't mean revenge beelzedad..I just mean say what you think. To neighbors.
Oh, I see, you've gone from "mistreating" to say what I think to neighbors.
No. that's not it..you don't know me, but you make broad assumptions. I was partly kidding about the mistreating. It's simply sometimes I feel like when you post you're speaking to someone else's behavior more than mine. You couldn't possibly believe the things it appears you believe about me. You don't know me.
But hey, that's better than the alternative. I had a fleeting moment where I thought you were posting from another country and someone had done something to you physically. The eye for an eye thing creeped me out. At least we're all just throwing words around.
They are observations rife with evidence, not assumptions.
Well, I wouldn't judge your experiences by mine. When you drift apart naturally, you still let your kid sleep over and take phone calls, and the PTA which formerly pestered you weekly doesn't suddenly have no need for you at all and when you run into folks in town they don't look awkward and treat you like a leper.
You can deny it, for whatever reason you choose, but I know what happened to me. I tried to deny it, because I just couldn't believe it, but it is what it is.
Really? And you think it's because you used the word atheist? I honestly can't process that. How deep in the south do you live? The whole story you told sounds like something out of a movie.
I doubt I used the word atheist. I explained to her that I didn't believe, and couldn't believe based on everything I had studied and learned, and to please stop asking me to visit her church, because the truth was that I never would, I absolutely did not believe in the bible, and therefore my church-visiting days were over.
There was nothing dramatic about it, or about the following incidents. Nobody burned any crosses on my front lawn, or threw rocks through my windows. My kids do still have plenty of friends, and I have never been honest with anyone here since then, minus a few people recently met through a community facebook page, where one of us was told that we aren't welcome in this county. No shit. And that was just for expressing a democrat viewpoint.
Ironically, someone told me that up through the early 80's this was a democrat area. Then due to "white flight" from the city, all the local politicians changed parties to cater to their hate.
It's messed up. Anyways, no, not cause I used the term atheist, again I probably did not use that term. Because I firmly rejected her religion, and possibly because my rejection of her religion made her feel that I felt I was smarter than she.
This is a problem. Christians must think we're evil. If we even attempt to deal honestly with them, then we are found to be "wise in our own eyes" or "in league with the devil" or "elitists who think they're better than everyone else."
It's a problem, I do not know how to address, other than playing stupid. But I am too far beyond that now.
Cause it's naturall to rebel - see many religions raise their kids not to hate yer not a supposed to hate - but all these so called christian's and catholics and stuff hate anything they can .....naturally defying their own God haha how's that one fer ya
I'm really sorry for your troubles. I think it's funny that you say the white flight from the city caused it. you'd think it would be the other way around. I've dealt with this mentality a lot over the years, I just never attributed it to religion. I've called them a lot of things, just not christian. I guess I need to pay more attention. I just looked on line, there's an atheist meet up on Saturday. I hate being around people I don't know, but maybe if I get my nerve up I'll go. It would be interesting to talk to some one face to face in my community to see what their take on this whole thing is. I'd be horrified to learn anyone here has dealt with this. It just seems so sad.
Well apparently we were more tied into Chattanooga politics than Atlanta politics, prior to the white flight. I did think it was just dumb rednecks until someone set me straight about that.
If you have a local atheist group, that's a good thing. It does mean your local society has room for everyone, if they have allowed an atheist group to establish itself.
Another thing about atheists is that they're not generally very organized at all. So if you have a local group of them, and in a small southern town, they must be of the exceptional sort. I'd def check them out.
Don't be sorry. That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Oh, it's not in my town..we're a bedroom community now. I don't think it's a big group anyway. The site said three atheists were planning to attend.
Two probably won't.
By the way, I guess I never directly responded to the point of this thread. Even here, I don't think we're the most hated minority. Probably just not enough of us to hate. We offer no threat. They just prefer to think we don't exist.
Ever wonder about moving to Europe?! I can't believe your story earlier. You're not writing from the 17th century, right?!
Hey wags. I know you love your country, but the last time I was over that way I was in ireland. They're pretty religious over there. I was with my husband's family and the tension between the irish catholics and the american jehovah witnesses had me walking on eggshells the whole time I was with them..suffice it to say I saw a whole lot of the countryside and hardly any family while I was there. They're all wacked when it comes to their religions. No matter which side of the atlantic they live on.
I think Ireland, Portugal, Italy and Poland are the exceptions that probably prove the rule... I'd be surprised if any of those four are as "religious" as the United States.
It's not about loving my country (I don't regard Europe as my country) - it's about living the way you want to live and not being forced to conform to frankly archaic principles.
Living the way you want to live is the american way. Don't think just because people are griping in these forums that they are actually being persecuted. It appears to be a growing phenomena here that every one that can't have their way, 100% of the time, gets bent out of shape about it. I do get it, but it's not a philosophy that reflects the freedom offered to those who choose to live it.
As to Europe, last I heard several countries still automatically deduct a mandatory tithe for the church. There'd be another revolution here if they tried that rot on us.
The tithe is collected by the church in question from its members, not from any citizen. They've mainly been taken out of legislation - but even before that typically represented less than 1% of a person's income. I think Switzerland still has it... but then they don't need the money cos they're all loaded!
I was responding to Pandora's comment earlier. I'm not disparaging the USA here, incidentally - there's a lot they get right that we don't - but it is slightly baffling that in such a prosperous and educated country, religiousity is so high.
It is a phenomena I've never put much thought into. I'll probably have a strong opinion on that soon enough, now that I'm aware of it.
You'd never thought of that?! Never considered the US bucking the trend?
I suspect it's to do with the US being a pretty new country and lots of immigrant groups wanting to hold onto something tengible in terms of identity etc. It happens in the UK now - particularly in immigrants from the Indian subcontinent.
I'll be honest. I'm the original bubble girl. I've lived in my head most of my life. I rarely interact with more than a tiny number of people at any given time. You wouldn't believe how old I was when I first heard a serious curse word. I sat for an hour trying to figure out what the heck it meant. I've always seen what I want to, and glossed over the rest. My son is the same way. It's odd to look at how innocent he was for so long, compared to my husband's son who seemed immersed in the world so early. We're just not joiners. Show us a path, and we cut through the woods in a different direction.
I think it's pretty silly to say atheists are the most hated minority. Look at all the disgusting, hateful rhetoric directed at Muslims and gay people.
I agree,guess the statement gets attention though.
Not to mention the disabled. Nobody even bothers to care about the oppression disabled people face, they just brush it under the carpet.
In my society/community many Christians provide food for all kinds of people without predjudice.
Volunteer to serve the elderly.
Now I am not saying that 'only' Christians do good works,but I cannot accept that such initatives are negative.
What about the organisations ,too many to list who serve communities and people who fall through the Welfare gaps?.
It is wrong to force anyones beliefs down anyones throat.
I, get annoyed too when an athiest wants to tell me there is nothing...no God..no after life...nothing...
Maybe we should have separate sandpits to play in
(I hope not)
It's the same here in my community Kiwi. It is truly a blessing to be a part of helping others with food, clothing, etc.
We know. This is why your religion causes so many wars.
There is no god. Your majik book is nonsense. When you die - there is nothing. You are dead. No after life. None. Nonsense. No majik juju. Sorry.
If I thought there was nothing ,no purpose than Id check out now.
Oh wow how depressing that must be!
That is why Athiests must be so cranky and start wars.
I am not cranky - nor do I start wars.
There is no god.
And you say you would kill yourself if there was no god? How odd. Hardly rational, wouldn't you agree? But - I see now why you so desperately need to believe nonsense. Pity it causes so many fights huh?
There is no purpose but what you make for yourself.
Need to kill myself?? ,oh the paranoia can be quite overwhelming at times.
Dear me. Lying Kristians. Oh the lies can be quite overwhelming at times.
No - u dint sez u would "check out now" an that dint meen u would kill urself.
This would be why your religion causes so many conflicts. The lies.
Wot u meen "check out now" 'zakly?
No I said (read again)If I thought like an atheist (no hope etc)- might as well check out now...
Mark,plse keep up and quit the foolish jibberish.Were you not educated at a posh school mercy! or should I say , Come on good fellow,do smarten up
what makes you think atheists have no hope? Atheists just don't hope for some fantasyland afterlife, that's all
I see - and what does "check out now" mean.
Dear me - sorry it upsets you that I had an education - seeing as you have reverted to Hillbilly speke. This is why your religion causes so many fights.
You had an education? well whoop di do.Bet your English teacher is impressed
Once again ,just for Mark.
If I were to believe there was no hope (in a better future) here or in the after life,why 'I might as well check out'.
I was born for nothing ,live for a limited time ,70 yrs if Im lucky,die for nothing?.
If I were to believe the Atheists stance.
That was the context in which I made the original statement..
So - how does that have anything to do with "checking out"? You "might as well check out"? Has no meaning then,. Zero. Empty. Meaningless conflict to defend your silly belief.
Yes - I know you believe nonsense because you are scared. I get it. Now you are fighting semantics because you said something that clearly meant one thing and now you are trying to get it to mean something else in order to make it appear as though I said something out of place.
This is why your religion causes so many fights.
That's odd, I would see that as more of a statement of ones time on earth having no purpose at all, regardless if the purpose is of a supernatural or corporeal nature. One would not find any reason whatsoever for living such a life and would rather "check out" than enjoy everything our world has to offer and much worse, think of doing so if they weren't already convinced of a better and hopeful future?
Even if one were not able to see the forests for the trees, one is still able to appreciate the splendor and beauty of either of them.
My understanding of 'check out' is kill yourself. What did you mean for it to say?
life is for now, and to be made the most of now - not holding onto some cinderella fantasy
Do you really get annoyed just by someone stating their own belief? I mean, I do get annoyed when religious people look down on me for being Atheist, but a religious person simply saying "I believe in Jesus" or "I believe in Allah" doesn't annoy me.
It is negative when the underlying motives behind those Christian organizations is t evangelize and gain converts.
No,I dont think this is the case.
An really good person,who respects other people,are kind to animals and all living creatures is actually who follows Gods rules.
It is not necessary to be an believer to be a good person.
Im cristian,but I go to church very seldom because of the scandals with children by priests.
I feel that today churches are not formated by God will,but by will of some people throught the history.
Every religion has a dark side.Non is completely peaceful.
I personally believe in God, but God of good will and love to all!
Aethists here, I think, are lovable creatures. Take Mark and Ernest for instance. I think i have a good rapport with them (at least I think i do)
Not practising Christians BB ,does not mean they are Atheists.
Education will enhance the truth,so long as its not a cranky depressed Professor teaching it
No - education is the death knell of your religion. LOL
"Reason is the enemy of faith."
You don't even accept scientific facts because you don't understand them.
And yet, in the real world, education isn't enhancing your "truth" at all, is it?
And, if you actually sat and listened to a Professor, you would find they aren't cranky or depressed, except maybe the ones you saw on tv.
No, he was an Athiest and clearly depressed and unhappy. Not exactly about Religion ,just such a winy ,poor me sad man in his tone and his body language.
Then why is it that the church made knowledge the devil?
There have always been naysayers, rational people pointing out the foolishness and lies. We know this to be true just by reading the Bible. The people never believed. They had to be forced to believe, and the rational naysayers had to be marginalized and criminalized to keep the people from listening to them.
Only today, there ain't a damn thing believers can do about us, except for clamp their hands over their ears, squeeze their eyes shut and pray harder.
Some are not happy with this situation, and would truly like to see things changed. Anyone keeping a list of the christianity-based morality laws rethugs and teabaggers in America are pushing this year? Where's LMC, she's probably got one.
I don't believe that people who believe in God necesarily hate atheists. I believe in God and the fact that other people may not agree with that does not bother me. Perhaps people who get upset with the challenges to their faith by Atheists have doubts about their faith to begin with and that is why they react like they do. It could also be the smart alecky in-your-face bully attitude of some atheists. Just like all religions and philosphies there are adherants who behave borishly.
I really think they are not the most hated, I never known a mass killing of atheist (correct me if I am wrong).
But I really think they are the one of the most misunderstood,
Not all of them hates the christian beliefs (in fact I think many of them just don't care, they just hate it when some people keep insisting their wrong).
There are some theist that whenever they saw an atheist, they always label them as "enemy of their beliefs". So, that maybe the reason why religion causes so many fights.
(Of course not all people who said they believe in a creator, really believes in a creator ^ ^)
Ey, Peace here
You make some good points.
Of course you are right ,I have met many people throughout my ife who dont share my beliefs ,or some do,but express it in other ways.
I am nobodys judge, but I think the world needs more love.
Too much negativety out there.
Honest Question- why are atheists the most hated minority?
All humans should be respected whether they believe in a religion or they don't believe in one.
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