Although obviously this is going to depend on people's personal views of what would constitute being inerrant. If we take the word at face value it means "without error", in a sense perfect, then obviously no.
Obviously, as a very human book - with very human intentions behind each of the authors - the book contains what I would consider errors, particularly moral failings. The Bible fails to be a perfect moral guidebook because it was written in times and places that do not reflect the better aspects of our moral nature. We have commandments to kill whole swathes of people - genocide. That alone discredits the morality of the Bible and it's God - if we're going to look at the Bible as a coherent whole - because genocide is one of the worst acts anyone can possibly commit.
From a scientific perspective the Bible also fails but then none of the authors, save perhaps the author of Genesis, ever set out to convey any truths about the natural world as part of their message.
Viewed as works of mythology and Jewish identity building it makes sense that the books would be flawed works meant to convey morals, teach lessons, and unify the Jewish people. Viewed as the "inerrant word of God" people will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to defend that view.
Another question to ask is what might we expect to see if the Bible was actually authored by a perfect and loving God? Would we expect to see absurd myths wrapped in allegory about towers to Heaven and talking snakes? Would we expect a book that contains, condones and/or causes bloodshed, slavery, etc? Would we expect a book that has produced two different religions both of which have splintered into other factions with Christianity having splintered thousands and thousands of times over?
Would we expect to see a corruptible canon decided upon by committee decisions and poor translations that put both unicorns and dragons into the King James?
Or would we expect to see a text that has only one interpretation that cannot be misinterpreted, immutable, understandable to all, translatable into any human language that transcends cultural norms and touches the very core of what it means to be human? If a God had anything to do with the Bible he could have created a book so miraculous and perfect one look at it would rescind any doubt of its truth.
But that's not the book we have.
I believe titen you have a point in the failing of certain translations. A book that has been translated under so many bias opinions. But still it treasure of purpose and theme has been untouched. Do you really know the theme ?
Interesting Titen. When delving into this I like to take "Thou shall not kill". We kill germs every time we do dishes. We kill food to eat. Killing in defense of the defenseless is honorable. So what is the inerrant truth to that command?
Titen has proven that he has a modern prejudice regarding the Bible which is exacerbated by his lack of substantive knowledge regarding ancient times, not to mention the Criteria of Authenticity. So to argue with him, Eric, is pointless.
I still feel MOST are underestimating the POWER (Acts 1:8) of the Holy Spirit Who is JESUS! Really "BELIEVERS?" Scripture has LIED? Did HE not say HE would "lead & guide us into ALL truth?"
Where are the "BELIEVERS?"
The Thou Shalt not Kill commandment is better translated as Thou Shalt Not Murder. The real question for Christians is whether the Mosaic Law, including the ten commandments, should apply to them at all. The God of Israel gives that law to them alone
T-S, when we recognize god's name as I AM THAT I AM or ISIS we understand ever action of all man is Inerrant.
K&T, there's not just one theme though, some books have multiple themes. Job is different from Ecclesiastes, Mark is different from John, they are very different in theme and message.. There is not one unified core theme to the Bible as a whole.
THEME: Coming of Christ to reconcile us to HIM!
Metaphors of God's Grace+ poetry & wisdom=OT+The Gospels!
Acts: Estab New Covenant & ex of THE CHURCH!
Remainder "Good News" of the Gospel of Christ (Grace & Mercy)+the Apocalypse, the
Yes! Although man has translated and re-translated, the moral of the story still remains the same. Believe in the unseen, have Faith in what you've read, "Wait" for the Holy Spirit's "Help," and everything will be "revealed" unto you regarding what has been added and deleted!
Revelation comes from the Holy Spirit and, yes, the Bible was written in Allegories, Metaphors, Parables and Illustrations (Matthew 13:10-13) by men who were "inspired by God" (II Timothy 3:16)! However, if one "WAIT," GOD will "reveal ALL!!!
GOD knew men would "add and delete" from His Word (Revelation 22:18-19) and is why we cannot consider "the letter" (I Corinthians 3:6) but "worship (study) in Spirit and in Truth" (John 4:23-24). Jesus asked us to "WAIT" (Acts 1:4) for Help (John 14:26; 16:13) but MOST think It's a joke and "read the letter" perceiving "their interpretation" is correct (Proverbs 3:5).
The Word of God is "inerrant" for those who "WAITED!" We study, believe, "WAIT" and it becomes "inerrant" for the Holy Spirit (aka GOD, aka JESUS) does not LIE (Numbers 23:19)!
For others who did not "WAIT," It's not "inerrant," all LIES, a myth, to keep believers under control and "foolishness unto them!" I Corinthians 2:14 says "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of GOD (They didn't "WAIT!"): for the are "foolishness unto him:" neither can he know them, because they are "spiritually" discerned."
Well, you don't even have to look outside Christianity to answer that.
When I read inerrant, I think non debatable. If that was the case, there would only be one unified group of people that follow the bible, rather than several hundred/thousand.
Well, you don't have to "look outside" to see who hasn't "WAITED" (Acts 1:4) for the Holy Spirit's "guidance" (Jn 14:26; 16:13) Who is inerrant, or there wouldn't be "several hundred/thousand" beliefs!
There are Plenty of people who "know" they are being guided by the holy spirit.
Saying they aren't being guided by the holy spirit because they disagree with you would be rather convenient wouldn't it?
Holy Spirit is JESUS(Jn 14:26 "in my name")Who does not have "different beliefs" (Gal 1:6-9)! If u were GOD would u have "diff beliefs!" NO! U would say what u meant & meant what u said! So it is with Christ! Ppl have been "brainwashed" vs STUDY
So because they disagree with you, they are brainwashed.
No wonder there are so many different denominations Norine
They don't disagree w/"me," they disagree w/WORD which I give!
They run & hide or "delete" when not in agreement w/"teachings!"
I can STAND, they can't!
So who would you rather believe if seeking salvation?
The ones who aren't psychotically judgemental of anyone not aligned with their beliefs and who don't think that the world is going to end at any moment.
They tend to be a lot less crazy and a little more believable in the long run.
You are as the mass & as GOD speaks of during "End Times!" Follow the mass & not the WORD & see where it gets ANYONE!
Is 61:8 "For I, the LORD, love judgment..." Ever heard that one before? No! U listen to man vs WORD!
Lol, man is the one who wrote the word Norine. One loses on both fronts if they listen to either.
Did I read something wrong? I thought Jesus was made man. He was a man. But anything that comes from a man is bad? That is a real headscratcher.
Link: Well how can 1 tell 1 when wrong if don't judge "using WORD?" I BELIEVE WORD u don't! I BELIEVE Holy Spirit "leads & guides," u don't! I BELIEVE I'm going to judge angles, u don't (I Cor 6:3), so what is man?
NW, it's not up to us to tell others they err, who is left upon the earth (Isa 7:22) reveal who err and who don't. Our responsibility is share what and how we've observed things" and leave those seeds to spirit to do what it will with them.
ea- please give scripture to support your answer== there is not even 1
Charlie, Didn't you see Isaiah 7:22 which began at 7:14? Matthew 28:19-20 and Luke 8:5-18 are the scriptures to support the latter portion of my reply.
Eli: I want you to google "Is it Right to Judge" and then tell me that!
When "teaching," Paul told Timothy (I Tim 5:20) to "Them that sin REBUKE before all, that others also may fear."
Since Paul's & the killed disciples deceased Yoshua "Leprously" (Ex 4:6-8) instead of leaving him of color, I give more credence to his teachings than Paul's. To present opposing views "rebukes" without judging, the truth will judge. I'll check
JESUS talked "thru Paul" as HE did the Prophets! Jer 31:33;Heb8:10;10:16= New Covenant where we NOW live! Acts 9:15 HE began talking "thru Paul!" Paul spoke for JESUS! What do u mean Paul's teachings? Yes, we Judge ONLY w/WORD telling what GOD said!
Had Paul and the killed decibels no have erred they would not have been killed as Yoshua suggested John would (John 21:22). I accept thins said before he erred as I can discern them to have be pre-error so I go with spirit's guidance (Dan 2:45).
Eli: Go w/WORD "only" WORD! If Jer & Heb said "HE would put laws in hearts & minds" & Acts 9:15 said Paul "would be a vessel," why deny?
If u can't back up with WORD, it's not true!
I give WORD! We can't go w/"feelings!"
ea- the ot was for
israel only and only for a season. the nt verses you use would have to be somehow twisted and out of context to back up what you say
What a crock Charlie. I read the OT and get a lot out of it. You and your rules. What a Pharisee.
oops== guess I need new typing fingers I left out 1 word should have said ot laws or the law of Moses, otherwise it is correct
Eric: Old Covenant's 613+ Mosaic laws (Not 10 Commandments; Gal 3:23-25) have been "fulfilled" unless "carried over" under New Covenant!
Do you know this?
NW, I follow what my heart says, the heart shows us things the written word doesn't say directly. Paul lamented, after spirit left him imprisoned to die, "what I should do I do not, what I should not I do" but he was the vessel prior to it.
GOD LIED THEN! "I will NEVER leave you or forsake you" (Deut 31:6; Heb13:5)! Why would u say that? RELIGION has taught "Paul just a man" & he was who wrestled w/flesh as we do & why he said that, but a VESSEL like Prophets who GOD "never lef
ea- here is what God says about your heart.
Jer 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
Jer 18:12 And they said, "That is hopeless! So we will walk according to our own plans, and we will every
NW, Saying god lied is saying god is I AM THAT I AM.
Charlie, It is written "god will write his law in our hearts and inward parts" in O & NT, once that is done it's no longer "man's" heart but the "voice of god speaking to and through man."
Ea: God is "I AM that I AM," and doesn't LIE (Num 23:19)! He never leaves us nor did He Paul!
Heart "not deceitful" ONLY if it aligns with GOD'S WORD! Satan is busy and w/o KNOWING WORD, one can be deceived!
ea- and when that happens the words will ALWAYS fit scripture - many things you say do not, so You can not be trusted for truth
Yet another condemnation. How interesting. It kind of shows us why some people are so opposed to the Gospel of Love.
Eric, PLEASE? What one says MUST align with WORD, no matter who says IT! Neither Charlie, you or I can speak w/o being able to "PROVE" w/Scripture; otherwise, NOTHING!
True, Charlie, but it will not fit most man's interpretation of scripture. Most man take them literal when they are mostly Metaphors, Allegories, Parables and Symbol-types, MAPS, that Isaiah 28:9-13 tells us how to comprehend.
Yes Eli, it all boils down to "Revelation" vs "Interpretation" (Matt 13:10-13)!
remember, erics measure is to his perverted doctrine of love. If it does not then it must be condemnation.
A Christian's measure is does it line up with scripture. and is it conviction or condemnation?
Then Charlie you MUST (I Pet 3:15) explain why u believe (w/Word) no women preachers, Father & Son!
Also, do you believe in Communion & that there is now no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus, our sins have been forgiven?
ea, charlie, eric and Norine...........u guys fighting makes Link look good....
He's probably laughing right now.........And i quote "Christians If they disagree among themselves how can anyone believe in them? (chuckles)"
You "perceive" as fighting? We are disagreeing, but not angry (At least I'm not!)! Disciples "disagreed" (Gal 2:11-2; 3:1 "O FOOLISH Galatians...")!
Do u see this as "fighting?" OK, "fighting" in sight of mere men!
Don't blv in me, but WORD!
disagreeing is not fighting, done according to scripture. in fact if we disagree we are to continue until either one or both are proven wrong and the TRUTH of scripture is revealed and accepted by all concerned. ALL of ONE Spirit, no divisions
Haven't been following all that much, but considering the frequency of my emails and the fact that Norine is involved, yeah I'm pretty sure my point has been made a few times by now.
Charlie is RIGHT AGAIN! ONE SPIRIT, no divisions (Father and Son as in big daddy & little boy, but ONE SPIRIT)!
Yes! All of existence is what is called god and a thread that god is in everything, thus, everything is "Inerrant."
absolutelY NOT. The scriptures, are but bibles are just translation of scripture and contain all the errors believed by their translators.
And titen example A pair of shades worn by you may give a certain filtered vision from your eyes. But someone elses vision in those same shades could be more perfect then yours
We also are human why should people believe you who is also imperfect.
I'm beginning to see how many "unbelievers" proclaiming to be "believers" on HP! If JESUS said HE would "lead & guide us into ALL truth," why don't u believe & rely on HIM to reveal truth? Don't u believe? Jn 16:7 "Its expedient FOR YOU that
kt-- i am not asking anyone to believe me, I am asking all to research what I present and with the help of the Holy Spirit discern what is truth instead of believing ANY HUMAN. those that do this learn truth not church stories.
Charlie, this concept of anti anything man is fascinating. I just can't get over the hurdle that Christ was made man. If it came from Moses or Luke who were men it is bad? You said "ANY HUMAN".
eric- you sure love to twist what people say to get an argument.going. you prefer confusion to truth. I am not wasting any more of my time on your foolishness. Stop responding to me
Farlie, it appears u've learned "church stories" along the way! GOD has always spoken thru "man" thru out Scripture & today (Heb 13:8)!
What are u talking? U should've "WAITED" to "discern" or is "pride/ego" getting in way?
OMG! U can't delete
There you go again Charlie. Insisting you are always right and telling people what to think, believe and do. I will respond to your lunatic comments all I want to.
norine- what are you talking about. scripture has always said to test ALL things to see if they are of God your comment makes no sense . you are following eric not reading what I say, I have never said I am anti man. just to check ALL things
Norine, Charlie (farlie) should stay on his own questions where he can delete truths he does not like. I worry for him out here where he cannot just delete that which makes him think.
Charlie: U "test" through FAITH in HIS WORD! WORD given -"Search" for "rightly divided" TRUTH w/HELP fm Holy Spirit! See Phoenix's Quantum Entanglement Q!
Eric: Only those BOLD in their FAITH don't delete (run)! If shaky, worried, so they run!
and those sick and tired of the false accusations, misrepresentation and other wastes of time by those who have no real understanding of scripture but want to argue their liberal beliefs. & those with a single thing to say over & over &am
Don't get "angry" Charlie! "PROVE" your belief w/WORD is what Scripture says (II Tim 2:15)! I'm not angry & supposedly the devil. Why are you angry who is supposedly "righteous?"If I repeat WORD over & over maybe it's bcuz JESUS did (IICor
I could see Charlie in a skit. He is Jesus but he keeps deleting what poor humans have to say because they are stupid. He tells his disciples to shut up because they are ignorant. But he does it all in love?
Eric, that's really rude. Not a good example of what a Christian is supposed to be.
Charlie, I didn't understand your comment. Are you saying that the Bible is not inerrant? I agree, but I wasn't clear on your message. Could you expound upon it?
sd-yes the scriptures, are but bibles are not scripture, they contain some but bibles are translations of scripture and contain the errors in belief of the translators so we must be careful a good way to check is a interlinear bible
I have no idea what that means. What church do you belong to?
sd- the ekklesia, the kingdom of God, the true church of Jesus the Son of God. and you? I do not "belong to or attend" a "church". I am a part of the church according to scripture the new testament "church" is the people of God, no man rulers
How can u be a part of "THE CHURCH" when you deny Scripture that says there's ONE SPIRIT vs Father & Son which is 2/3 of "Trinity" & "Spin Off" from Catholic Faith?
How when u "delete" & defy I Pet 3:15 II Tim 2:15; I Tim 5:20? How? Answ
No. Nor was it designed to be inerrant. This "inerrancy" idea took root in the 1800's when the Enlightenment began challenging Christian views. The Bible is an ancient document written well before modern science came on the scene. Nevertheless, Christian thinkers began using scientific principles (wrongly) to defend the Bible. But the actual truth is that scripture is authoritative whether or not it is inerrant. All true scholars worth their salt understand this, whether they are Christian or not.
Consequently, whether or not every single book in the Bible matches 100% accurately with every other book, is besides the point. All of the New Testament, for example, affirms that Jesus lived, died and rose again. For example, if one author only mentioned one man who hung on the cross next to Jesus, while the other author mentioned two men hanging on the cross near Jesus is besides the point. The point is that Jesus was crucified. And so modern scholars, such as Bart Ehrman, conveniently choose to throw out the baby with the bath water to prove their points, knowing full well how ancient writers wrote---like ancient writers, not modern scientists.
Even some hard core fundamentalists, who accept the theory of inerrancy, have fallen for the idea that ancient culture must mimic our current modern culture and science. But the truth is that....this is not critical thinking. The Bible is a conglomeration of writings which describes events that occurred in ancient times, among other things. Furthermore, the Bible was not written like books we write today, with a beginning, a middle and an end.
As I said before, the Bible is authoritative. Even modern agnostic scholars understand and accept that the Bible contains the most authentic text for understanding the life of Jesus. That is a simple truth which many people choose to deny, because they have no knowledge whatsoever about the Criteria of Authenticity, or simply because they don't want to know the truth, among other dubious reasons.
And so for someone to say the Bible doesn't meet modern scientific standards is foolishness. Instead, they are masking their stubbornness or skepticism as so-called superior intelligence or ability to think critically, even though they are practicing neither, when all is said and done..
Essentially, yes. I believe that God, through willing vessels, over the centuries, has ensured that nothing He wanted in scripture has been left out. Everything He wanted me to know is there. Has man played with it some - yes, and God has provided us with the tools to find the places where man has added things. And really, the fact that man has done so little to scripture, tells me how much He loves me and has made provision for me, through His word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that I may attain the fullness of Christ.
If you want true controversy, bring that statement up regarding the Koran.
This is really a interesting idea. Inerrant basically meaning incapable of being wrong. If I declare the Jesus is my Lord. You truly have no basis for saying I am wrong. It is a "to me" proposition. Wrong there is not measured like 1+1 = 3.
So you take the Bible and apply it to historical facts. It could be wrong and in error. I think that if you take it in certain fashion it is indeed wrong. Take Genesis for easy example. If you take it literally in today's modern English it does not make sense or appears to be wrong. It would not be inerrant. Personally to me, I take "days" there to be God days not having a real time stamp on them. What is time to a God? Alpha and Omega stuff with time being our limited understanding of intersecting and parallel planes only conceptual in our errant understanding to date. A clock to a God makes no sense at all as God would not be restricted by our linear time perspective which is limiting.
So inerrant is an adjective. Adjectives lend themselves to subjectivity. Faith and belief are very subjective and personal.
I can read the Bible and see error. I can read the Bible and see inerrant. Sometimes it just depends on my attitude.
People who are dead set against or for inerrancy are those that impose their concepts on others. Those who say it depends are in touch with their heart and the Spirit.
Eric, you "read the letter" and see Word for Word! Did Jesus not speak in "parables" (Matt 13:10-13)? NO ONE can read WORD unless in SPIRIT (Jn 4:23-24)! If so, "your interpretation" which errs!
GOD you're so far from GOD Who is a SPIRIT!
The Holy Bible is currently the oldest book known to mankind. The information inside the book has been passed down from generation to generation for thousands of years. Currently the bible that we read from today is incomplete. Many years ago a man opened his bible to view the Old Testament, The Apocrypha, and the New Testament. The sections of the book were in that exact order long ago, but today the Apocrypha has been removed, many swaths of biblical books have been done away with. Over the many years of the Bible being in circulation of human beings there have been many kings, rulers, religious leaders, statesman, and noble men who had enough power to purposely use penmanship to alter the bible to maintain control over the masses. Only one example of this in past history was the mighty and powerful King James. A good illustration of what we see today with the bible stories being told is very similar to fifty people sitting Indian style knee to knee in a large semi-circle. One man starts things off with a whisper of a sentence into his neighbors ear and the whispered sentence is spoken in every ear all around the semi-circle. By the time the whispered sentence gets all the way back around to the man who started the sentence. The sentence he first started has been altered, switched up, out of order, edited, and shortened. The same can be said for the bible in the hands of mankind for so many years.
kjv is one of the worst translation, commissioned by king james because the the current and still better version (geneva bible) scared him. he was afraid it would cause the people to revolt because it taught the Kingdom of God., not the king
And is why I say we NEED HELP from the HOLY SPIRIT! Either one believes WORD or not! Did JESUS not say HE would "lead & guide us into ALL truth?" Why do we even discuss such when WORD is WRITTEN?
I would say that to find that answer you have to dig into those pages. just think about an occasion in your life when you needed an advice; promise you that you will find the answer there. Remember Paul how he found Jesus, the same can happen to us and only then is when we realize the treasure that was left to us is hiding in the bible.
Just like everything else Yes! The Bible has been corrupted and it's for the Holy Spirit The Helper to guide you to see understand and realized the Truth.
That is why some may find themselves questioning certain text passages of the Bible because as always the Holy Spirit knows it's Truth from the lies.
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