Should Christians stand fast and hold the traditions taught by word or Epistle?

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   Ericdierkerposted 8 years ago

   Should Christians stand fast and hold the traditions taught by word or Epistle?
   
   Many eschew traditions. They say that rituals are bad. But Paul says: So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

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   manatita44posted 8 years ago

   Scriptures are there to help us, and one should always make use of them. My Father read the Psalms every morning before work and got great relief from them. Inspiration is so necessary in the devout life!
   
   Devotion is of two kinds, the blind faith kind, and the other which comes later with much practice. If your Spiritual Director asks you to do something and it turns out to be silly, at least you were obedient, this is usually the first test.
   
   But with prayer comes wisdom, discernment; discrimination, and we gradually learn to walk our own walk. Neither the scriptures nor the Master are meant to be used as crutches. We have to do the work. They generally point the way, yes, and can also impart Grace, though,  if all was so easy, we would be bored, and the Soul would not be happy.
   
   One way is to see all things as having their essential role: rituals, traditions, dogmas...when a thorn pricks you, you may use another thorn to remove it, then you throw them both away and carry on.
   
   When I was a child, I did the things of the child which was necessary for me, and is still necessary for others. But when I became a man, I put away childish things.
   
   As we evolve, things change accordingly, or more of scripture is revealed in a new Light or awakening. This is the way of the spiritual life, we are continually learning ... growing ... evolving ...
   
   So to conclude, we stand fast as necessary; become flexible as and when we need to, not necessarily relating to word or epistle, but by the dictates of our Inner Pilot, our own Conscience, which is nothing other than the voice of Spirit. One need to be as wise as the serpent, but as gentle as the lamb. Much Love.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Problem: "We have to do the work" which makes Eph 2:8-9 A LIE! ALL we DO is "BELIEVE w/FAITH!"
      GOD set the pattern for the "carnal" realm & the "Spiritual!" We "believe" we can accomplish things (carnally) & easy, so it is w/GOD!
      Jn14:26;16:

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      manatita44posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      We ultimately tend to agree in a round about way. Nothing can be achieved without Grace. You say this; I totally agree. But Faith without works is dead, and Grace and self-effort are like twins! Both need each other. Ultimately, there is only Grace

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Faith that doesn't produce any signs of works "is" DEAD!  One must BELIEVE until it's manifested!  Don't only read "the letter" (II Cor 3:5-6)!

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      faith-hope-loveposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine we still have to do the work. Faith without works is empty but also Works without Faith is also empty. We can all lie back and say "Oh I have Faith" then do not work for good or fulfillment..

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Faith w/o WORKS "is" DEAD! If one has "faith the sz of a mustard seed they can move a mountain!" Do u thk *I* can move a mountain? I'd rather let Holy Spirit "WORK!"
      
      We "BELIEVE" so until action manifested. Our faith (work) determines outcome!

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   Norine Williamsposted 8 years ago

   Did you hear what Paul said?  "...we passed on to you..."  What did "we" (the apostles/Paul) "pass on" to them?  Believe it or not, you can't get around TRUTH!  Paul only preached "The Gospel of Christ" which is AFTER THE CROSS!  Was Paul not chosen by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:15) to be a "vessel" to preach the Gospel - AFTER THE CROSS?  Did he not say in Galatians 1:12 "For I neither received it of man, neither was I "taught" it, but by the "revelation" of JESUS CHRIST" (aka Holy Spirit)? 
   
   The reason I KNOW JESUS is the HOLY SPIRIT Acts 1:2 says "Until the day HE (JESUS) was taken up, "AFTER THAT" HE (JESUS) THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT had given "commandments" unto the apostles whom he had chosen."  THAT "ONE SPIRIT" worked through the Holy Spirit (HIMSELF) to give commandments as HE SAID HE WOULD in Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:10 and 10:16 "put laws in their hearts and minds" via the PROMISE (Holy Spirit) in John 14:26; 16:13!  The PROMISED (Holy Spirit) was "sent in my [HIS] name" (John 14:26)!  Therefore, tell me JESUS is NOT the HOLY SPIRIT?  One MUST "rightly divide" (II Timothy 2:15) HIS WORD!
   
   GOD SAID "rituals are bad" in the Book of Hebrews and Isaiah 1:10-20!  GOD SAID "traditions" are bad in Colossians 2:8; Matthew 15:2:-6; 3;-20; Mark 7:3-9; I Timothy 1:1-20; 4:7; Luke 6:1-11; I Peter 1:18; Isaiah 29:13-14; Amos 5:21-25; Exodus 22:20! 
   
   Paul said "...hold fast to the the teachings "WE" (meaning the disciples via the Holy Spirit; aka JESUS; Acts 1:2) passed on to you..."  and is why Paul said (via the Holy Spirit; JESUS)  in I Corinthians 11:1 "Be imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ."
   
   How many times have you seen me quote Paul (via the Holy Spirit; JESUS) in Galatians 1:6-9 which is referring to the "teachings we passed on to you" or The Gospel of Christ?  I will quote HIS WORD - AGAIN!  "I marvel that ye are so soon removed for him that called you into THE GRACE OF CHRIST (AFTER THE CROSS) unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would PERVERT "THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST."  But though "WE," or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which "WE" have preached unto you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.  As we said before, so say I now AGAIN, If any man preach any other gospel unto you that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED!" 
   
   Sorry guys!  RELIGION has "perverted THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST" to have you believe there is a Pauline Doctrine when in fact IT IS JESUS (aka Holy Spirit) talking through Paul! 
   
   I pray!

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      faith-hope-loveposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine. When we hold fast to the teachings that have been passed on to us then we are building traditions.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Where r u Mr.Ward? Gal 1:12? No one "taught" (or "passed on" to) Paul but HOLY SPIRIT (JESUS) "but by the revelation of JESUS CHRIST" (aka Holy Spirit)!
      Have you not heard (READ)?

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   Dr CHE Sadaphalposted 8 years ago

   Traditions are never inherently bad, but in some cases tradition can be celebrated more than the people it was designed to bring closer to Christ.
   
   On the other hand, tradition memorializes orthodoxy so that participants in the tradition can never stray far from the Word. Example: The Westminster Confession of Faith. This is "traditional" (written 500 years ago) but if you are a Reformed believer, it makes clear what you believe and why you believe it.

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      faith-hope-loveposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I am with Paul. We must hold fast to our teachings and traditions passed on to us. We should never change them for when we do then we will be changing them to suit our own ends and to justify our actions whether right or wrong but mostly wrong.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      JW: He's not talking OLD COVENANT "traditions!" Paul was not Christian but "revelation" fm JESUS is when his "tradition" began! Holy Spirit "revealed" Thgs done prior 2 his Christianity & JESUS (HS) told him to fulfill old "traditions!"  2Cor3:18

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   Blessed Hillposted 8 years ago

   For one, traditions shouldn't be our teaching material if we are endeavouring to teach others about God, Jesus Christ or Holy Spirit. Traditions of man detract from the power of God's Word. What I believe Paul was getting at in what you stated was doing the works of faith, standing in faith, fighting the good fight of faith etc. All of Paul's teachings and writings, and all scripture for that matter, was to activate faith in believer's.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "Traditions" indicated in ur response (" God, Jesus Christ or Holy Spirit")! U speak as if different entities! Paul also were "ALL" ONE SPIRIT w/ONE MIND (I Cor 12)! RELIGION has "taught" u a LIE (tradition)! FAITH "WORKS" not u r Eph 2:8-9 LIED!

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      Blessed Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, I didn't say they were different entities, you assumed that so you could bring an accusation. You assume way to much to make judgement calls about what and how I believe. Please don't assume you know my faith walk. Till u do, don't judge me

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Why did you not use "and" vs "or" as IF they are different entities when Scripture says "ONE SPIRIT" (I Cor 12; Eph 4:4-6)?

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      Blessed Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      1st 1 Cor 12:4,5 talks about diversities of gifts of the Spirit, differences of ministries but the same Lord(Jesus), diversities of activities but the same God. Then the chapter continues to specify the gifts of the Spirit. Sounds like a triune God.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I really don't get a spiritual reason not to recognize the three as separate and yet the same.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Did u hear urself? "Gifts of "THE SPIRIT" (ONE)! GOD has more than "three" diversities! Rem HE'S the BIG O'S but ONE SPIRIT!  I Cor 12:12; "...even so is CHRIST!" "GIFTS" r some of HIS "GLORIES" but "ONE GOD" (Eph 4:4-6)!
      "Teaching"KILLS(2Cor3:6)

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      Blessed Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It is not myself, it is scripture. God the Father sent God the Son, God the Son sent God the Holy Spirit. God the Holy Spirit leads and guides us the children of the most High God, YHWH. Unity and agreement make them ONE.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      U rem how JESUS spoke in parables (HIS MO)? W/o Holy Spirit u can't "see" THE GREATEST ALLEGORY in WORD! "JESUS is GOD!"
      "JESUS" sent HS (Jn 16:7); GOD sent HS (Jn 14:26)!
      SAME "SELFSAME SPIRIT" (I Cor 12:11)!
      Jn 4:23-24? "TRUE WORSHIPERS "MUST!"

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      Blessed Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The Holy Spirit is in all 3. But Jesus is flesh and bone seated at the right hand of the Father. He has the Spirit without measure. The Holy Spirit lead Jesus into the desert to be tested by the devil. That's 2 individuals in unity.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus' (Phil 2:5) Mind (HOLY SPIRIT) "lead HIM into desert to be tested by devil!" THERE is ONE SPIRIT who manifests HIMSELF via "GLORIES!" I Cor 15:50 "flesh & bones" not in heaven! Indiv is person; GOD is SPIRIT!

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       Blessed Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Norine you misusing and misquoting scripture. "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil."
       Matthew 4:1
       Don't put your own spin on scripture. Take it as it is.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Where is your "spirit?"  If you have a spirit (mind) of evil, then you have a demonic spirit (mind)!  We war against that spirit (mind) to become as HIS Spirit (Mind) & is why Scripture says "Let this Mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus

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       Blessed Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I'm a triune being like God, made in His image and likeness: I am a spirit, I have a soul (mind, will and emotions) & I live in a body. My spirit is born again but my mind has to be renewed by the washing of the Word. 2 diff parts of the whole.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Now we're talking "Spiritual!" Spirit has a Mind! GOD is a Spirit. HE doesn't have a Mind? I was just looking @ Ezk 37:14 "And shall put my spirit in u..." When we have HIS SPIRIT we have HIS MIND! THE SPIRIT talks to HIMSELF (Gen 1:26 "Let US...")!

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   nnmsposted 8 years ago

   I think we should holdonto traditions in spirit or principles, not in letters or words as the context widely differed now and then. Just my free and frank opinion.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      A healthy perspective. Interesting how Christ taught in parables yet the scribes of today treat them literally. I also find it interesting that Paul wrote to churches and not invividuals.

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You too r as Scribes, Eric! If u believe there r 3 persons (Trinity), if u don't blv we should listen to Paul whom JESUS spoke thru (Jer 31:33;Heb8:10; 10:16) & live "AFTER THE CROSS," u don't get IT either! THE CHURCH is ONE just in diff locatio

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I have found this a remarkable comment: which makes Eph 2:8-9 A LIE!

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      If one "thinks" he has to "WORK" for "righteousness" & it is not by "FAITH,"  it does "Make Eph 2:8-9 a LIE!"

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