Is there evidence outside the Bible that Jesus Christ existed/ exists?
Under the New Covenant, HE "puts his laws in our hearts and minds" (Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:10; 10:16) and IF we are "IN CHRIST," evidence in our personal lives shows HE exists - TODAY!
Of all the people in the grocery store last night, one of the workers (and elderly man) came up to me and asked me something about the Bible!
JESUS CHRIST (aka GOD) "WORKS!"
This notion of people to people discoursing to reveal God just does not come into alignment with a personal relationship. Preachers and teachers do not produce the connection. Only God can.
The question is whether there is evidence outside of he Bible, and the answer is yes even though the Canonical Gospels clearly contain the greatest evidence.
Great response Savvy! However, arch finds & CG are "carnal" (physical) evidence and I was speaking of "Spiritual" evidence! Eric READ Rm 10:14-15! They KNOW when GOD "reveals" who has been "sent" IF they search w/a "pure heart!"GOD gives "eviden
What savvy balderdash. Your arcane notions of proof of God are harmful. Jump into the best codification of evidence and proof known as the FRE. You are sadly mistaken as is your friend the great No. Proof and evidence are beyond your understanding.
Well Eric, at least your words here are not as cruel & heartless as previous statements you have made about me. But more to the point, Craig A. Evans is the Payzant Distinguished Professor of New Testament studies & one of the worlds finest s
Schucks Savvy, perhaps we would do better embracing each other rather than arguing. It is good we reflect different perspectives. I have no corner on the market of right versus wrong. I fully respect you for your angle on life.
Food for thought, Eric. To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. Titus 3:2 ESV
"Showing "courtesy" toward ALL people" is telling TRUTH & not just "going along to get along!"
GOD doesn't recognize "people" who are UNBELIEVERS based on Eph 2:1 which says "We were DEAD (spiritually) in our trespasses & sins!"
I usually don't just "go along" Norine. Lol. But courtesy is a good thing. Mackenzie, for example, has been very courteous.
I don't have a problem with all subjects being on hp. but I do wish they would move fwd 2000 years. It is like groundhog day.
Greg: I thought this was the "Religion & Philosophy" Section?
Brad: "JESUS CHRIST the same yesterday, TODAY and FOREVER" (Heb 13:8!
Greg, what a strange comment by someone who has intentionally followed this category. Could you explain that?
I was just curious because "Reluctant Revivalist" has asked so many questions and they have all been religious. I really didn't mean anything by it. That's all.
Cool Greg, I get your point. I think I read something about people making money on HP via visits to questions. Kind of interesting on the subjects of faith. Oh well.
Are you insinuating Eric? I don't NEED "money" GOD provides & has WELL! I do for the MESSAGE not for the MONEY but I see where your head is!
Yes. Quite a lot. The writings of Josephus, the Historian corroborate the writings in the Bible, particularly with regard to Jesus Christ. Also, archeological findings coincide perfectly with the description of life in Roman times during that era. In addition, the Dead Sea Scrolls have provided us with a wealth of information about the times of Jesus which absolutely reflect the narrative in the Bible. For more information, read anything by Dr. Craig A. Evans.
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-His-World- … 0664239323
There's some evidence to suggest it, but it amounts to the vaguest hearsay. Writings of Josephus (even if you disregard the forgery evidence), Tacitus, even the gospels are all tertiary at best so it's quite possible they're wrong. They came decades after the alleged events and were written by people so many degrees removed that it's about as trustworthy as a big old grade school game of 'telephone.' We simply have no primary or secondary sources to verify, and no archeological evidence to date (no birth records, trial records, death records, remains, etc.) of a historical Jesus.
If there was a historical Jesus, we have no way of knowing just how much (if at all) he fit the description of Jesus in the Bible, and that's not even getting into the prospect of his alleged divinity.
That is so far from accurate. Which modern author(s) did you get this information from? Obviously, they have no knowledge of or are ignoring the criteria for authenticity which any Biblical scholar worth his salt understands.
Savvy you are barking up the tree of Thomas the doubter. Do you need proof? Then where the heck is your heart. Belief is not contingent on proof. Did Jesus walk? Do you answer with proof?
Your premise is wrong. What if you had been born into a radical jihadist home whose religion has other views? They believe with their hearts. That doesn't make their beliefs accurate. However, the authors of the New Testament provided proof.
Truly what is written in the Bible is proof of what the authors perceived and believed. Who could rationally argue otherwise? Truly their testimony is evidence of the truth of what is asserted. Even secondhand hearsay is proof of something.
Clearly I did not go to the Christian apologists that you went to Savvy, I find them kind of biased.
I understand, Mackenzie---which is why I have respect for those who do adhere to the criterion I spoke of and who also use critical thinking skills. I, too, have found many agnostic scholars to be biased. Ehrman is one of them, though he is brilliant
Sav, have you ever read Josephus and Tacitus? You realize they didn't personally know Jesus, right? They came decades later? You do realize mainstream scholars do not think the gospels were penned by eye witnesses, or even contemporaries of Jesus.
Josephus born A.D. 37., was highly educated & his works are some of our best sources for understanding the history of 1st Century Judaism. Scholar who believes that the gospels were penned by "others" are not living up to the standards of academi
Yes, 37 AD... born several years after the alleged event, writing decades later. Not an eye-witness; writings based on tertiary evidence and his work is suspect due to medieval forgery.
I've concluded the opposite about the Gospel claims.
Which authors do you get your information from? Not all scholars have integrity. Are you familiar with A ratings on peer reviewed material? And how does any historian get his information? There are methods for proving authenticity.
I just got done chairing a School Site Council meeting. Jennifer was the scribe/secretary most assuredly she did not get all my words or nuances down..She is just a slob like me. What reflects what is true is a matter of where you sit at the table.
And if "sits at the table" w/o HOLY SPIRIT "guidance," only (as u say) their perspective! However, "ALL SCRIPTURE" was "INSPIRED BY GOD..." (II Tim 3:16)!
Ready for more "chastisement"fm WORD (DADDY)or can't take it &therefore "BASTARD"(Heb12:8
SD, if you're saying any of these writings you mentioned were primary or secondary sources, or that there is any archeological evidence of a historical Jesus, there's no point in us having a discussion of 250 words or less. We're never gonna agree.
Okay, Mackenzie. I understand. Eric, the Jewish people did not treat their documents like a school site council. Anyone who is familiar with Jewish history knows how seriously they took these matters, The written word was accurately recorded. Period
Savvy you're proving what the HOLY SPIRIT has "revealed" to those of us who are too "ignorant" to "research!" It's what we (Believers) call "FAITH" (Heb 11) or "trust" in HIS WORD (Prov 3:5) for HIM to "look @ heart" (I Sam 16:7) & "REVEAL"(Jn14
Ignorant? You have researched, Norine. You practically have the Bible memorized. Why do you think the ancient Jewish people wrote these texts? They are there for us to study. And of course, our hearts speak to us through the Holy Spirit.
Savvy I think I know where you are coming from. Check this out for yourself. I think around 9 events are related in the Gospels that are the same. And we think them true. But each are told from a different perspective. 4 different events - no.
"...our hearts speak to us through the Holy Spirit." AMEN!
I'm sooo GLAD I "KNOW" HIM! Thank you JESUS!
Savvy, GOD "sees" that you are "not ashamed of HIM" (Rm 1:16) & you will be REMEMBERED!
Yes, Eric. Slightly differing accounts with regard to small details, but the same end result, as in the death, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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