To Kiss andTales and any others who may have answered, I'm sorry but I accidentally deleted your answers. Typical newbie mistake! I did read it however and was quite amused by it. I must say though, that what I presented was actually a question. Gods discriminatory patterns are rampant in the bible therefore bidding the question of why? I know that people don't like their god to be put under a microscope but in light of all the racism and bias in the world today I think it prudent of a civilized people to at least try and find it's origin. Since god was apparently here first and then created us that any bias or racism in the world today originated with him. As far as slavery goes, god actually tells us how to treat slaves. Which in my estimate shows that he condones it.
For example; if you damage your neighbors slave monetary compensation is in order. If you kill one you can either replace it with another or pay the market value of the one you killed. So, as my question asks; Why does god condone such anti-social behaviour?
Please feel free to answer. I promise I won't delete anymore comments!
Eric the answer is straight forward is human error !
At this time in life we all was suppose to be in paradise living forever , But Adam and Eve betrayed that opportunity them and us. What we see in the bible is exactly how man has lived under Sin.
The metaphor of "slavery" is "anyone lesser than self" - RESPECT or "Love neighbor as thyself!" GOD KNEW from the beginning HE would eventually show us to have "No respect of persons" (Rm 2:11) as long they are HIS PEOPLE (Gal3:28) or "IN CHRIST!"
Tod this is a very fine question. What is up with all that killing and mayhem and brutalizing folks because the are a different race/tribe. Women, children and "lessor" men were sanctimoniously trashed in the Old Testament and some even directly by God's hand. From what we read God instructed that genocide be done - simply for dishonoring Him.
How can one possibly justify such horrific acts by a God who in the New Testament is called Love?
My favorite are the "Bible Toters" that come up with human scripture based defense and evidence. Like we used to say in the '90's - Whatever!!! Did that go out with "what's up" and your fingers on your forehead in the shape of an L? Oh boy, if those went out of style in less than 3 decades, what are we going to do with 2016 years, or however you count it, give a thousand years here and there.
Here is your bottom line from a genius. Much schooling including a doctorate and yada yada yada and a retired preacher. Dad of four and sailor of the cosmos. Did a bit of time in Tibet and quite a lot in Navajo sweat lodges. That Christian path in Spain/Basque area where we greeted Ultreya and for sure some time in the Greek and Latin tomes of the Vatican. I really do not buy the Mormon rap. If you take Buddhism to find a God you really do not get it -- it is about finding your place, not God's. Shinto and Islam have a lot to offer, but just like our quandary above we get so much of a dose of hate, we must accept man interfered with God's direct message.
There is an Inuit following I like -- kind of meditation mixed with naturally opening your heart to the heavens. Alaska is cool and for me Heaven was Jesus's hand touching mine. I have no clue nor any care if you reach a worldly Nirvana and call it Christ. I have never been even for one nano second been called to convert. Those poor dogs who have, I would rather clean toilets. Like walking streets and knocking on doors -- or like our gal here who I would not have watch even my adult children.
So I am about done,,,, sorry way too long.
You see that above? I threw in some totally silly earthly qualifications of mine. Damn, a lifetime of searching to one avail. I do not know crap about God. My wife who has not even read the entire Bible, and my elder son who graduated from a great University with some divinity laugh at me for trying to find answers that do not exist.
Your question is fantastic because it has no answer. Ask an Atheist for answers.
Eric we arrived on this planet not by man's will but God .he has all the answers . People just substitute another choice of their own. Jesus always answered questions and taught based on his experiences with his Father.
The is Adam and Eve betraye
I believe the answers do exist Eric and as such I can't simply let them lie hidden in the "god works in mysterious ways" column of questions unanswered.
Eric this is a new account probably under a restricted person who causes trouble.
I will not answer here anymore or any other new accounts the game is over
Kiss andtales, I'm sorry you feel that way. If I am restricted I'm unaware of it. Cognitive dissonance is a mother! Anyway, there are no games going on here just viable questions that some folks don't like asked. Thank you for your replies.
Nope, Tod, you want God under your microscope like so many particles. Maybe you are OK in your science world but you totally miss the bigger picture. Live in a Petre dish but do not fit me inside that narrow parameter, my mind is larger.
Petre dish or church pew, it all amounts to the same thing...that we believe what we believe regardless of evidence to the contrary. I was curious as to why god, in all his omnipotence thinks it's o.k. to own slaves and be racist. Silly me...
Tod good man, if you really have to ask then where are we? Give that wondrous thing called love a half a chance. Maybe you just want to question and dissect but your answers will not come except through loving others.
Eric Dierker wrote; "Tod good man, if you really have to ask then where are we?". That sounds like one of those "it's not ours to question gods ways" responses. I find that concept unacceptable, so I ask.
Guys! GOD had to move "junk" (Is64:6) out of the way to get to where HE was going (OT JESUS "concealed;" NT JESUS "revealed!")! HE looks @ END to beginning; not as us! HE KNEW ONE DAY Gal3:28 would be KNOWN ("No Jew or Greek")!
The question should be: " why do people use religion as a political tool?".
If we "blame god" we are saying He exists but he's a bastard. It's called "the blame god paradox" cuz it doesn't make sense to blame an alleged non existent God:) It's funny in a stupid way.
I know I know now you'll say "it's not me it's them and I'm doing it as a reverse reasoning exercise yadda yadda but it's actually YOU making a logical error not someone else.
The question is what it is...why does god condone such. My reason for asking is that there seems to have been something sinister going on. How can people follow a god who makes slavery an institution? The true logic error thereforesides with god.
Absolutely, just not in the same way most people think.The reality is that any god, in the truest sense of the word, would never deem slavery or racism as acceptable no less condone it thru scripture, as the present god of judaeo/christianity does.
Can this be true? A person accepts any concept of God and does not believe in his God's omnipotence and omnipresence? By clear definition a God is beyond man's understanding. Ivanovich you miss a reality. You are like a neophyte in quantum physics.
String theory actually shows the omnipotence and omnipresence of the creative force of the universe. The various bibles only make reference to it. It would seem that at some point the idea of god was corrupted for nefarious purposes. Time will tell.
Dogs and their tales. I forgot about the shooter on the grassy knoll and that the lunar landing in a TV studio. Great fellow on H 5.O for you to watch. Jesus must be considered a great conspiracy?
Jesus a conspiracy...you can ask him when you see him...in which case, you'll never know but then again when has "knowing" anything actually mattered to the "faithful". Jesus is like santa clause..once you grow up you realize the rediculousness of it
Nope Jesus is more like old age and love. You can be like you and hate and not grow wise. Or you can embrace love and pass it on. Because some misguided put Jesus on a shelf like a commodity does not make it a generalization that works.
Or, I can be like you and dismiss all who disagree with my beliefs. One question, why is it that people such as yourself, when faced with alternative views, attribute those alternate views to hatefulness? Is that your idea of wisdom and love?
Rm 1:21-32 You're "self sufficient" (carnal) relying on YOUR belief forgetting the CREATOR who is "Spirit!"
From an Islamic perspective this is not the case. Racism was abolished which is clear from the last sermon of Muhammad. The following is a portion of it...
"O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no virtue of an Arab over a foreigner nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness. Have I not delivered the message?
Source: Musnad Ahmad 22978"
However slavery still did continue with better rights for the slave. Having said that, there was an encouragement given to the people to free slaves in return for the removal of their sins.
"Most of the slaves liberated by Abu Bakr were either women or old and frail men. The father of Abu Bakr asked him why he doesn't liberate strong and young slaves who could be a source of strength for him, Abu Bakr replied that he was freeing the slaves for the sake of God, and not for his own sake. According to Sunni tradition the following verses of the Qur'an were revealed due to this...
He who gives in charity and fears Allah And in all sincerity testifies to the Truth; We shall indeed make smooth for him the path of Bliss [Quran 92:5–7].
Those who spend their wealth for increase in self-purification; And have in their minds no favor from any one For which a reward is expected in return, But only the desire to seek the Countenance, Of their Lord, Most High; And soon they shall attain complete satisfaction [Quran 92:18–21]."
[source : wikipedia : Abu Bakr]
It was a good move but it doesn't address the question of why it was condoned in the first place. Plus, if Abu Bakr was really righteous why didn't he free ALL slaves? Seems like more of a token gesture to only let go the useless slaves, no?
Aren't we all held in the world? Aren't we held captive in "life". But doesn't scripture somewhat let our minds travel beyond us? No no no, do not think I mean perfection. Know I mean progress toward a spiritual betterment. ?????
Instead, Islam divides the world into Muslim and non-Muslim and calls for hating the non-Muslim and conquering it.
We're held captive by one thing that encompasses all manner of slave mentality and that one thing is religion. To say scripture "let's" us do something would imply a restriction. It's a never ending cycle of real repression and no actual reward.
The scripture is a guide which points you in the right direction. It is much broader in thinking than ourselves. It accepts that you have fallen against your ego because ego has also been given to you by God. It still shows you a peaceful way out.
let me get this straight, god gave us all of these terrible ego driven traits, then tells us hell awaits if we abide by them then he tells us he'll make it all good if we do what he says, not as he does...god created the problem then gives a way out?
why were adam and eve sent down to earth for some enjoyment? because they did not control their desires even when they could. that is what we are here to do, to practice and become stronger. for that purpose, we are given guidance.
Practice and become stronger for what? and Adam and Eve weren't "sent down" to earth, they were created here so, I really don't understand what you're trying to relay. The guidance you mention sounds more like a slave handbook to me. Maybe I'm wrong.
they were created and lived in the heavens. the "tree" was in heaven... i think you may have got things mixed up. To control our desires... total understanding of our self and controlling it with an active mind makes us stronger.
Well, if i've gotten things mixed up so has the Holy Bible and 2 billion believers of it's scripture, or perhaps you are referring to the Quran? If you are that will serve to throw further wrenches in the whole religious belief system.
I am speaking from the Islamic perspective of things therefore am referring from the Quran. I did not know Christianity says they were already on earth during the tree incident.
christianity and judaism both say it, then again they are one and the same religion. so, which one is right and which one is wrong? or does it even matter? and what's with the "you're either one of us or against us" doctrine of the muslim faith?
1. Abu Bakr did not have enough money to purchase all slaves but spent all. 2.Confirmed with a Christian friend, the Garden of Eden was definitely not on Earth. 3.You are not with me, nor am I against you. To you, belongs your faith, and to me, mine.
If the rules in the bible were as savvydating says; "to protect the slaves", why do the passages refer to "owner" compensations for damages incurred to the slave as apposed to said compensations going directly to the slave himself?
I cannot comment on questions on the Bible due to lack of knowledge. Maybe it is explaining how to deal with slaves at the time. But keep in mind we are also referred to as slaves and servants of God. It was not as bad as it "sounds" today.
That is so cool this answer chooses the best and ignores the rest.
"Can this be true? A person accepts any concept of God and does not believe in his God's omnipotence and omnipresence?" String theory would best explain my concept of god. Just because it's not the same perspective as yours doesn't make it invalid.
No my friend you do not get Quantum Physics well enough to rely on string theory. Life in it's origin is not explainable.If you think it is you are not getting it. Big bang my butt - totally debunked. String my love for you out into an abyss. Foolish
Why do you assume I don't understand quantum physics? Anyway, what's any more foolish than thinking some old man made humans from a handful of dirt as opposed to life developing thru evolution?...of which every sane, civilized person understands.
I believe in Omnipotence but not in Omnipresence. The Quran states in about 23 places that God is on his Throne. It is OK, not to accept either. The most important thing is to believe in one God. Once you TRULY believe you will experience the rest.
Isn't omnipresence consequential of omnipotence?...maybe not. Anyway, the whole "Once you Truly believe" thing sounds a tad self-fulfilling to me.
do you keep speaking to a person who shows no interest or mocks you when you speak? there has to be a level of trust, right? the higher the trust the more detailed info is shared. Its quite a simple logic, not self-fulfilling in my opinion.
Famous last words; "Trust Me" Anyway, I'm continuing to talk to someone who mocks me. Mr. Dierker mocks everything I say. Which isn't very christian...or is it? then again neither is his ego driven discription of his own superiority over us dummies.
this is a discussion, which is different to lets say meeting someone on the street. you don't do a bad mocking job yourself, when replying to him. anyways... good discussion. thanks for the questions.
Some folk told me a few days ago to be more stupid. They remind me of you. You hate intellectual prowess when it rocks and rolls with Christ. I could take you on in an butt kicking fight with both legs bound. And I believe completely with Jesus.
More stupid implies an already existing level of it. Go figure. If you think jesus gives you but kickin power I know some athiests that would actually prove you completely wrong. you're a perfect example of intelligence NOT requiring intellect.
lol... this is fun ... let me get some popcorn.
Irfan says: "lol... this is fun ... let me get some popcorn."
when some people allow their misguided zealousness to override the tenets of their religion it only serves to put their religion in a bad light. Inquisition ring a bell? need some salt?
i'm no good at putting other people below oneself. I'm learning from you... yeah... salt will be good, thanks.
Ivan GOD ONLY asks us to BELIEVE; have FAITH in HIS WORD; "WAIT" for HIS HELP & HE'LL do the rest!
What's hard about that?
Norine Williams, god doesn't ASK us anything...he TELLS us what to do and if we don't do it hell awaits. And what about those 5 million jews who believed, had faith and waited all the way to the gas chambers? NT covenant in action maybe?
Your premise is false. God does not condone slavery. "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)
Slavery was a Roman construct, and was not the same in ancient times as in modern times where people were captured and sold. Slavery was voluntary for those people who had no way of making a living for themselves. Back in ancient times, there was no welfare, so this was a way for people to get food and housing.
The rules one sees in the Bible existed to protect the slave. Injuring or killing a slave was punishable. The slave owner was actually encouraged to “pamper” his slave.
Egyptian society, which embraced slavery, was here before the Romans therefore slavery is not a Roman construct. Exodus 21:16 is referring to the crime of kidnapping, not the institution of slavery itself. To condone is to accept and allow.
Try to embrace the Principle of Evolution to history which atheist historians have done for a hundred years. Things evolve bro. Also people can use many things for political motives while pretending to be holy eg hitler
The verse is alluding to kidnapping for the sake of slavery. The Romans did not treat slaves well. The only type of slavery permitted by the Hebrews was voluntary slavery, whose slaves were to be treated well. God never condoned other forms.
Ozinato says: "Things evolve bro."
Yes they do and hopefully "mindsets" as well. You called me Evanovich...why? I'm not Russian.
Everything that now comes out of your mouth exudes the complete opposite of what I was always told a follower of jesus should be. Thanks for not turning the other cheek and threatening me with the violence of a "butt kicking" in the name of jesus.
I assume you are speaking to Eric, who has his own version of "Christianity" which is not mainstream. He has insulted me as well. I apologize, Ivan, that you are being spoken to in this manner by someone who falsely claims to love in Jesus' name.
Thanks savvydating. I figured it would be obvious? lol! I apologize to Ozinato if he thought that comment was directed at him. It didn't show up where I wanted it to. Anyway, Eric appears to be confused so I would offer him this; What Would Jesus Do
I've had my answers inexplicably land in the wrong place as well, so I understand. What would Jesus do? That's always a good question.
Jesus said "LET MY PEOPLE GO" which is evidence HE didn't condone "slavery!"
Jesus said "LET MY PEOPLE GO" which is evidence HE didn't condone "slavery!"
Hey Norine, Actually, it was Moses who said that.
Ivan...Obviously, Moses was voicing God's will. Same thing. But, we get it. You hate Christianity. Too many discrepancies....yada,yada. Despite the flaws of Christians, true Christianity is a force for good. Underground Christians are good examples..
God doesn't like it when people change what's written,and stating one person said something when it was actually someone else is an alteration. Anyway, what are underground christians? and I don't hate christianity. the fake christians bug me though.
Norine may have meant to say God. Underground Christians are those who worship and teach in secret because they will otherwise be imprisoned, tortured, or threatened with death. Even if tortured, they do not deny their faith. This happens all over...
She may have. So, that's what an underground christian is. The fact that they stay and teach their religion in light of potentially being imprisoned or killed speaks volumes about their character. I wonder how many here in America would do the same?
Not many, to be sure, Ivan. We have it easy here in the U.S. But to be fair, many American missionaries go overseas. Sometimes they are jailed and tortured and they do not renounce their faith. But the average Christian is soft & would last 5 min
What a very strange question. How did you form an impression that 'God' embraced racial bias and condoned slavery?
To condone is to "accep"t and "allow". Can intructing someone on how to treat slaves, which god does in the bible, a matter of acceptance and allowance?...and doesn't "choosing" a particular group as his chosen ones riddled with racial bias?
Have you read Galatians 3:28? Did IT not say "There is NEITHER Jew nor Greek to those "IN CHRIST JESUS?" We CURRENTLY live under a NEW COVENANT where JESUS has "No Respect of persons" (Rm2:11)!
Again OT JESUS "concealed; NT JESUS "revealed"
god telling the Israelites to kill every living thing in Jericho makes the whole "no respect of persons" thing fairly obvious. A change in terms of the contract doesn't automatically mean a change in policy.
Oh dear, the issue isn't w/God. It is HUMANKIND w/the limited & unevolved consciousness, mentality, mindset, outlook, philosophy, psychology, & purview who invented artificial labels & incidents such as racism, classism, ageism, sexism, homophobia, & other prejudices. God created humankind to be co-creators in the universe-giving them free will to develop to higher or lower consciousness. It is UP to humankind, not God to create a humane, evolved world.......God gave humankind the tools & it is in humankind's hands.....
So, the term "chosen people" is not racist or an artificial and biased "label"? God created humans as workers, as per the book of Genisis. Any other explanation is wishful human thinking. Co-Creators? Sounds like you're elevating man to a god status?
GOD was showing "His Chosen People" at the END (NOW) or a metaphor that you don't mess with!
GRACE is RIGHT! Dominion on earth was given to "man" by GOD (Gen1:26) & "we" fluffed it up!
We ARE "gods" (Ps 82:6Jn10:34) if "righteous!"
If you are a sinner, you must be in Hell. Therefore, in any country must be hell! Even in America!
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