There are a lot of forums on hubpages about the existence of God or the relevance of Christianity? A lot of people makes claims about Christianity (and really all religions and atheism) that are based on stereotypes, generalities, or things that they've "heard."
How well do you think you know Christianity? What is the source of your knowledge? I am especially interested in hearing from non-Christians.
A complete study of the bible in hebrew English and Greek, and time as a "christian" and total believer.
Then I started to read more, get out more and saw the stupidity in worshipping a fairy!
I think all Christians would agree with you, Earnest. Worshiping a fairy is stupid. Good thing God isn't a sky fairy.
You cannot prove it even exists, besides you own petty inclination that you've got a grip on life's meaning, which is obvious you don't. But, hey don't worry, you still have your arrogant attitude and thoughts of delusion. You'll be okay.
And, before you even think about turning it around saying that I cannot prove "GOD" doesn't exist..... I have proven beyond a shadow of doubt to myself and should you care to try, and challenge your own belief...test the doctrines, live them and we'll see where you end up.
I really love you....
I think you got messed up in trying to be perfect before the Lord, and, that is simply impossible. We live in the grace of God and not in the letter of the law.
The Old Testiment proved that no man could live without violating the ordinances, rules and regulations outlined in the OT. That is the very reason for Jesus coming.
Mankind had to recognize that of their own they could not be good enough, or righteous enough, or anything enough to regain the access to God that Adam lost for us all.
But, Jesus was without sin and took our place. Now, instead of trying to be perfect ourselves, we can take on HIs perfection and wear it as our own, thus being restored to a state where we have free access to God.
I think that you got caught up with a bunch of unknowledgeable and unloving Christians who tripped you out and caused this animosity.....and maybe there was a prayer or two that weren't answered as you thought they should be........
remember, if you respond to this not to call me any bad names, please...
The vast majority of Christians (and other religions) received most of what they know from their parents and peers as children. They were raised with it. Simple, really.
Substantial study. I did the whole christian thing. However, I wanted to know all about it. I wanted to understand it so that I could share my faith with others. There was much I didn't grasp as I went along, and I accepted that my understanding was limited.
Nonetheless I continued to learn, and inevitably reached a place in my quest where it was impossible to deny that christian leaders were capable of lying their arses off.
That made me study even harder. A few years later I shed the last remnants of my faith in christianity.
Christian leaders are no more capable of lying than anyone else. The key to understanding any religion is to evaluate its teachings alone, not the spin people who fail to follow those teachings put on them.
Apparently you missed the rest of my post. I wasn't studying Pat Robertson, I was studying the doctrines, the bible, and the origins and development of both.
Pat Robertson? That broad minded easy goin guy who worked out why Haiti happened?
He often quotes the bible very well.
Paragons of the church, my man, paragons of the church...
i grew up fundamentalist christian memorizing and reciting bible verses, being completely immersed in bible stories and church activities officially three DAYS a week, though some days multiple times.
i practically lived at church until i was about 15 years old.
my mom became a lesbian. or confused. i don't even know if she knows. *sigh*
i continued being a christian.
i guess i can say that i "outgrew" religion.
i found god, in ME. not in the bible, though i can say that without the strong foundation of the bible and the immersion in all things religious/spiritual i would likely not have wandered into my oneness realizations and the full understanding of the sovereignty of human beings, should we choose to recognize that.
Nicely stated Double_Frick.
How are you today?
meh. its up and down.
story of my life. LOL!! maybe i need a good dose of RELIGION. ROFL!!
My morther is a Quaker and my father a Catholic. I went to a Protestant school.
Reflecting on God's total failure to prevent children from being raped by Catholic priests, I concluded that God was either callous, or didn't exist.
Either of those interpretations conflicted with and overwhelmed any residual Christian sentiments I had had.
Christianity the defined religion? Enough to engage in only average conversation.
The source is from personal experience and learning of the experiences of others.
Christianity the belief in following Christ? Enough that my soul is saved and I am smitten by the flame of His eyes, and my heart's burdened for lost souls.
The source is the Holy Spirit.
I'm blessed enough to know the difference between the two usages of the term Christianity.
I try to be as Christ-like as my thoughts and mouth will allow me. I study and strive to be a good example and help others realize their place is there walking with Jesus.
But how do you know what you know? What you believe about Christianity -- how did you get your beliefs?
Believe it or not, considering our disagreements, I can understand that.
Yes, the whole nine yards. Fanatical, evangelistic, just like many here.
There are some who believe that if you profess Christianity then become an atheist, you never were "saved." I'm not sure I agree with that, but I do think that people who are "fanatical, evangelistic," and then turn atheist cannot be accurately described as "the whole nine yards." You'd be comparable to the grain that fell onto shallow soil or among the weeds.
That's not exactly what I meant.
I meant did you ever really "meet" the Savior?
What caused you to leave your first Love (as the Bible describes it)?
I woke up to the fact that it was all rhubarb when I completed my studies and saw the madness of believing in the sky fairy. No traumatic event, just logic prevailed.
I am gutsy like that, fear does not halt my enquiry.
What really matters is not how much I know about Christianity, nor even how much I know about Jesus Christ. Who I know is what matters but even more important is that Jesus Christ knows me.
That is the one tiny little truth at the bottom of the issue that really counts. That tiny little truth is bigger than the world.
The statement "Jesus knows me". Would any of you christians care to expand on that?
"Jesus knows me" is really not a good way of phrasing it. Of course Jesus knows who everyone is.
The question is really about what kind of relationship we have with God and with our neighbors. Are we friends, or are we estranged and alienated from each other?
Jesus actually doesn't know a damn thing. He's dead.
Just a thought. When dead, unconsciousness comes and life ends.
Valerie F wrote:
Thank you for your reply. From what I understand -and experienced myself- a christian's conviction comes mostly from this "relationship" you refer to. So much so that even when the evidence stops making sense and even when you learn that alot of what has been presented as evidence is falsified or misrepresented, apparently this "relationship" is what pulls alot of people apparently into letting go of their reason and clinging to their faith anyway.
In short, the whole christian faith thing really stems from and is maintained by a belief in this relationship, and not from or by honest study and investigation of the facts. The latter can only lead at best to a conclusion of inconclusive.
Isn't it true -or possible- that this entire relationship between a christian and Jesus is only in their minds? Can you not at least admit that possibility?
There is the subject "christianity."
It is defined as '...the religion derived from jesus christ based on the bible as sacred scripture and professed by christians."
But factually, there are no christians...only wannabees.
There is very little in history that mentions this jesus.
The NT wasn't available to the public for almost 300 yrs after jesus alledgedly died. He never wrote or spoke 1 word in it. It's simply corrupted stories passed down thru generations.
When people say: "jesus said," you can judge them as being followers not thinkers who have not done their homework.
No one in history knew this jesus or what he said. He spoke Aramaic and that language died long,long ago.
Those who wish to call themselves christians have only the heresay as written in the NT to qualify themselves...ergo, they are only "wannabees."
Well I guess we're just a bunch of stupid, blind, midless followers of Jesus pay no attention to us. Pay no attention to us we have nothing to offer.
hahaha....I have to admit you are right...simple beliefs for simple folks. :-)
Wow. For once we agree.
Now - if you could just keep your nonsensical hypocritical war mongering down to a quiet murmur, we can all get along.
Actually, all of the individual books of the New Testament were written between 30 and 150 C.E. All of them were letters to individual persons, churches in specific towns, groups of people within certain regions, and also people scattered all throughout the Roman Empire.
Although the first official listing of the New Testament in its current form did not come until the 4th Century, these same books were read all throughout the entire Roman Empire. In fact, this list was simply making a formal list of what churches were already using in the current worship services. There was no laspe between the life of Jesus and the existence of these books.
Also, there are references to the existence of Jesus outside of the realm of Christianity. You might be interested in reading some of the writing of Josephus, a Jewish Scholar (and not a Christian), for example
The Josephus citation is pretty much agreed by experts to be a forgery.
I disagree that a 30 to 150 year time period represents "no lapse". I would call it quite a significant lapse. The books voted 'in' at the beginning of the 4th century were a small selection of what was commonly used, and my understanding is that there was considerable debate at the time.
These problems merely address the points you've made, there are a great deal of other problems associated with considering the NT to be the Truth with a capital T.
Actually, the books and letters that made up the New Testament were around around 70 AD. It was only in the 4th century that it was determined which of these books belonged in the canon of the NT.
Well, now, actually the earlist possible date for the earliest book is around 70 AD, and the chosen books weren't so much "determined" as they were rather haphazardly and eventually for the most part agreed upon.
Hello qwark,hope your doing well.The amazing thing is that something happened during the period that Christ walked the earth that people are still trying to figure out to this day.It seems to be out of proportion to the few years Christ came into focus.considering the distortions that time,memory,interpretation,Adding to, and taking away from whatever happened I doubt we can ever know what really happened BUT,there must have been something that touched people in a tremendous way or we would never have heard of this anomaly,it would have faded long ago.I see it this way.A universal set of truths came to us through a man who spread the word which was immediately distorted and misunderstood,then he was deified and the stories began.
Or as my Ghetto side would say"There's a Diamond in that pile of Poop.How badly do you want it"?.I wanted it very badly so I dived in.The diamond turned out to be one of many.Each human being has one waiting for them.Each diamond is different.Organized religion dos not allow for individual diamonds.But that doesn't mean there not there.
I shall get off this Soap box now.I'm sure you will have a razor sharp reply and look forward to reading it.Unfortunately one of my businesses is in need of my attention and I must go.
I will check back later so please don't think this is hit and run.I respect you more than that.
Ya know, the greeks and romans loved nothing better than a good story. Think about it, they were still worshipping the pantheon. The Jesus story stuck because in a way it simplified things, it was fully endorsed by the rulers who saw how to use it to their advantage, and it happened at a crucial period in time.
My point is some truths are expressed over and over threw people who present them in a way that brings them notoriety,Jesus,Buddha,Zoroaster,Mohammad,etc.
Yeah I agree with that. Since you mention it I'd add that another reason the Jesus story stuck is because the teachings -of Jesus, not of the church- were revolutionary for the time.
Catholic education from age 5 to 18: standard things like memorising the Catechism. Spent one year in covent grammar school thinking I wanted to be a nun, going in early to hear mass with nuns before lessons started, staying after school for extra religious instruction with the chosen few.
Involvement with university Catholic chaplaincy and 1-year residency in chaplaincy house. This was a very radical place. Lots of discussion on Christian Marxism and socialism, "God is Dead" theology, meeting Daniel Berrigan and Bruce Kent. This kept me going as a Catholic a bit longer, because the most embarassing bits of dogma were simply ignored.
In parallel: Distance membership of a Benedictine lay community with frequent weekend visits and week in summer for about 2 years. There we attended the office five times a day, during which we were exposed to readings from the Bible and the "fathers of the Church". There was a strong Catholic Pentecostalist influence.
Two fantastic visits to Taize, when it was at its height. Much discussion on the social dimension of faith in action, dialogue with other faiths, silent retreat.
Year of residence in Anglican chaplaincy house.
Conviction I was not a Catholic.
A couple of years spent mainly among evangelical Christians. Visited whichever church was flavour of the month with them, which ranged from grim Baptist place with fiery-eyed hell-and-damnation preacher to happy-clappy waltz up to the altar and get saved to guitar music very low Anglican church. Heard Billy Graham live on one of his UK tours.
Another few years friendship with US evangelical Baptist missionaries while living in Yugoslavia. Occasionally attended local Baptist church with them. Much discussion, many tears, praying and so on.
Conviction I was not an evangelical Christian.
During Phase I, I read Pascal, Dietrich Boenhoffer, Hans Kung, Soren Kierkegaard, Huub Osterhuis, Paul Tillich, Ernesto Cardenal, Daniel Berrigan, Thomas Merton, Teilhard de Chardin, diverse Christian Marxists, plus loads of other theologians I cannot now remember. Also read Julian of Norwich, Dionysos the Areopagite, John of the Cross plus studies of the mystical Christian tradition.
During Phase 2, I did daily Bible reading plus regular Bible study, read Corrie ten Boom, Watchman Nee, Francis Schaeffer, Frank Morison, John Stott, Joni Eareckson and again many others I cannot remember.
Then I spent about 10 years thinking and exploring other systems of thought and belief and reading widely in philosophy, psychology, mythology, comparative religion.
Then I found something I could relate to intellectually, emotionally and spiritually (or rather I was found) and I became what I am now.
WriteAngled, that you play the fiddle in spite of your classical baptism qualifies you to speak on many subjects in my estimation. All that life experience you mention here is not half bad as well.
I like good common sense.
*Blush* Thank you for the comment, Niterider, all the more so because it made me discover your hubs. Still laughing from the beer one, taste buds are waking and I've only got 0% stuff in the house and it's 4am so no recourse. Drat!
I too had first hand experience with fundamentalist Christianity. I was raised in it, actually... my Dad was a preacher. The inconsistencies drove me to study which opened my eyes to the level of hooey in the faith. Since age 18, I have believed (and tried my best to practice) that minds can be put to better use... Except fot the beer!
More Christians need to learn a little about the Council of Nicea.
Come on, Sneako. I feel very disappointed when you're humble.
Makes it kind of hard to swallow the "Word of God" bit, doesn't it?
SURE, AND WITH A MODICUM OF COMMON SENSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! :LOL:
Sorry hit the capslock. lazy.
Ha! My dog can type 10 words a minute and turn the caps on and off all by himself.
Don't tell me it's a shiatsu. We have one that eats pizza guys! Our Eclectus parrot is the big animal typist in our house!
Who is this guy Christianity we're talking about? Is he a celebrity? How well are you suppose to know a celebrity. sigh. :
It's earnest in disguise. He bluffs a lot in the forums.
I have been called Mr. joviality, even Mr. frivolity, but never Mr. Christianity!
Oops! That may not be true. I wonder about all those poor buggers I tried to convert to Christianity when I was a god-botherin born again evangelistic christian zealot!
My dog goes to church every Sunday and believes in miracles. He's a cairn terrier and something else that embarrasses him so I won't say. I've tried to talk him out of the miracle nonsense but he just keeps on typing!
Four christians in this thread made a big deal of the fact that "Jesus knows" them. I wonder if any christian would care to expand on the subject. What is it you mean by the term, and what is it about his knowing you that means so much to you?
im a muslim. u says that u wanna know speacially frm non_christians abt wat they think abt christanity.. so me as a muslim can tell u that wat i think abt christanity? well, my religion ordered us to respect it n i do but sometimes when people give bad comments abt my religion so i can't bear it n its common in every person same case with me so im requesting to all non_muslims here to plz respect my religion i'll respect ur religion.GIVE RESPECT GET RESPECT..so i think that in somehow christanity was a true religion in the past n eesa )a.s) or jesus is ur God n our prophet n in someways the connection is meeting b/w islam n christanity so to me i also belive in jesus as a prophet n christanity as a religion from god..i respect it
No, you don't, you just said your religion has ordered you to respect Christianity. Big difference.
lol Give respect, get respect? Religion has no respect for indivdual belief, so why should any individual have respect for religious belief?
I know enough to know that Christianity just isn't for me.
As much as a rock?
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