Questions about"Salvation"

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Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago
Hi cosette; how are you today?

Who's Steve Jobs? That went right over my head. Is he the inventor of the IPod or APod or BPod or what?
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TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years ago
oh yeah...Don't forget to read the Scriptures that Christ read, not just the ones the man-made church okayed so they could gain/keep power.
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TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years ago
Definition of God: The entity who created the universe; that which moves without having to be moved; the First Cause. There are all kinds of definitions for the same thing.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Glass:
  All opinion...not credible as definitions that factually describe this "god" thing.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In your world, I suppose. *shrug*
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I understand what you are saying.
We can not touch it or see it. The only proof that we have that it exists is that we see people and other animals and plants that have it. We can distinguish between the people,other animals and plants that have it and those that do not. Life force... we can't see or touch it but we know that it exists. We cut a bird open looking for it but it leaves undetected.We have never seen it.

If I had to describe this God thing, I would have to describe it kinda like the Life force thing.
Maybe this life force thing is much more than we give it credit to be?

Just a spur of the moment thinking out loud again.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami:
  The Force? :-)
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
qwark wrote:
Just curious,
Didn't jesus alledgedly say: "Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’" [John 3:3]"
What happens to all the millions of good folks who lived thousands of years before jesus and those who exist today who never heard of him and his alledged purpose?
What about illiterates who can't read?
What about the mentally challenged who can't understand such things? ...on and on and on.

Jerami asks...
Jesus often spoke to the people concerning the resurrection.
Now that this question was asked...I do not recall reading anything about a resurrection in the old testament so there would have to have been scripture that they were reading that was not included in the canon. Unless someone has read about it in the OT in which case I would appreciate being informed as to where it is written.
If there is no mention of a resurrection in the OT this would open a series of questions.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True. The Old Testament refers in several places of the Lord being the first fruits of the Resurrection. It's in other scriptures that go in depth regarding the Resurrection including that everyone will not come forth at the same time, but by degrees according to their faith, works and alloted times to come forth.
  
  Reference is also made of the work in said time.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Many years ago I read the Bible from front to back.
  I recall when they died that it is referred to as sleeping with their fathers. But do not recall any details of a resurrection. I'm sure there must have been some. Guess I should do a word search on a internet bible site. I'm curious now.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Christ was the first to be Resurrected. Lazarus was not. Resurrection involved the body and spirit reuniting to a permanent condition. Lazarus was brought back from the dead but was still susceptible to death later.
  
  Yes, there are many works outside the inclusions in the Old Testament canon that speak of the Resurrection.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
  Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
  Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
  
  If you meant the Old Tesatament I do not know of any.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for these verses. I have often wondered about how many resurrections of diffrent sizes there actually are reference to in scripture including the resurrection of the saints the day of the crucifixion.
  I am at present curious concerning Old Testament references of a resurrection. I do not remember any. I know that Jesus spoke of it often and am wondering which scripture they would have been referring to.
  Any help would be appreciated.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have found references in many of the writs in The Book of Treasures. I had to dig and fight "tooth and nail" for it but did find it. However, these references will probably not ever be found on the internet due to intervention. The Book of Treasures is also rittled with human errors. Much is truly inspired, but there is also much that is changed by man. Most doctrine on Resurrection lies in the New Testament and other canons not included in said compilation.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for this info. I'll check this out. It seems that there is much that would have been considered as common beliefs at the time, that is not included in the KJV. This may be a insignificant detail but who knows?
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In my opinion it's a HUGE significance. The council a Nice who tried to take up the Church from ruins may have had good intentions but did so wanting some order and control of the people according to their liking. In so doing many things were stripped from the compilation. That is just one of the reasons so many people differ on meanings of different passages. Many passages were, originally, explained in clarity but are not currently explained in the canon. It's a travesty. It is vital to remember that the canon is a compilation of letters, records and epistiles. For this very reason it is inevitable that there are many important things not included. For this reason we have continued revelation to explain and clarify passages in scripture that we have. In addition there are scriptural records being found the further clarifies "obscure" doctrines in the Bible. This is vital to the future understanding of the family of Adam (us).
  
  I must retire now, it's late, but will monitor progress tomorrow.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was speaking softly.. I think that there were many many important facts left out of the Canaan. This being a very significant one.
  The vast majority of those attending this council had good intentions. But it only takes a few to cause disunity and force compromise between good and evil.
  How much compromise can truth endure before it is broken?
  One tiny crack can sink a submarine.
  This is only one of many reasons that I believe this was the beast that John saw rise up out of the sea and given 42 prophetic months to blaspheme. (Rev 13)
  This 42 months is almost completed.
  
  I have to get ready in a few minutes to drive across town to repair some holes in sheetrock. Gotta make a living.
  Will check back in later.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, the Biblical canon was declared "official" at the Council of Hippo, not Nicea.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The only references that I can think of are Elijah raising a boy from the dead, Elisha did the same and a man was thrown into Elisha's grave and came back to life. These are not resurrections, if I recall correctly. but are simply being brought back from death.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks.. I hadn't read or I forgot about the man falling in Elisha's grave, thanks. I will try to find out where the people that ask Jesus about the resurrection got their information about it.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Isaiah 52 and 53 speak about the resurrection of Jesus, for those who have eyes and ears to understand it.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But my question was is there any reference to a general resurection in any of the scriptures written in our old testament and if not..? Why Not...????
  
  The people of Jesus's day had common knowledge concerning what and how it was supposed to be.... Why is it not included in the cannon...?????????
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A general resurrection?
  Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.
  (Also, sorry if I mistook your posts earlier to mean you don't believe there's an everlasting punishment for sinners, since you said you don't necessarily believe that, right?).
  
  Anyway, I think a general resurrection is just as easily proven via Old Testament.
  I'll get back to ya.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  general resurrection? Not that I am aware of, Jerami.
  traditional Abraham-Moses, Moses-Kings, Kings-Prophets, Prophets-Judges teachings all accepted resurrection.
  
  One thing we studied was the 'breakaway' concept of Covenant, when Noah's sons spread out toward Asia, Europe, Africa. All the elements of moral law exist in each type of belief -which all stem from the Abram Covenant. Not one belief denies any form of resurrection.
  
  The direct reference, as Brenda said, was via Isaiah (Prophetic). But there are many mentions of a 'lifting up', 'taking away' like that of Enoch & Elijah.
  
  The present OT (collection of Aramaic/Hebrew Scripts from Torah, Babylonian Talmud & even Oral Mishnah) have been translated differently and even many points left out.
  
  People knew both Abram & Mosaic covenant better than the teachers knew...
  
  Torah or Tanakh places the 'reference' to resurrection many times from Job, Elijah, Elisha, Ezekiel, Daniel, Samuel & Isaiah.
  more so, it refers to the Pit or Grave as only temporal, so it as always believed that resurrection would come.
  
  Kinda cool.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  After doing some thinking on your question this is what I came up with. Before there can be a resurrection death must first be defeated. Jesus did this at His resurrection. He then turned and gave the same power to His followers.
  
  In the history of man no one had defeated death, except for Jesus.
  
  1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
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  Disappearingheadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How about the following prophesying about a future resurection:
  
  Psalm 49:15 But God will redeem my life from the grave; he will surely take me to himself.
  
  Isaiah 26:19 But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.
  
  Ezekiel 37:12-13 Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.
  
  Hosea 13:14 "I will ransom them from the power of the grave ; I will redeem them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is your destruction?
  
  Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good verses. Notice how they all spoke of a future resurrection.
  
  Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I gotta go to work early in the AM so good night. Thanks for the info. Sir Dent and golden path
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Hokeyposted 15 years ago
My friend Tom is a christian and he wrote this poem. He is new on here. Check it out.

http://hubpages.com/hub/saved
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hamstersmessiahposted 15 years ago
Salivation[sic] is a Pavlovian response to people's limited understanding of the divine nature of spirit. masters have no need of salivation as they know that death is just an illusion and that the divine essence cannot be extinguished by the cessation of the biological function of the bofy/brain which is itself an illusion in Maya.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, it never ends. An irrelevant question, but do you prefer booze or marijuana? I like beer, myself...ha-ha! Praise be, mutha fu*kers and lay it down my bruther hamster! Preach that sh*t! Divinity versus insanity, good combo! Yikes! Hell yeah!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It don't take long to expose IQ no matter how high it is .
  Or does it take longer for some?
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hope so!
  Some...? Who? Ha-ha!
  Qwark is one of the smartest ones on this forum besides myself; now is that cocky or what?
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know ???? Maybe ??? show me something to brag about for ya.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Humility must be one of your strongest points.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Only in a sarcastic way, ha! Thanks, Sir..or was you talking to Jeremiad or Jerami? Ha-ha!
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know who I was talking about.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Possibly, but thereis a word called 'jeremiad'...look it up. Thanks for you kind words; are you a fan or something?
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have always said.... Call me anything ya want to as long as ya don't call me late ... to supper.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, that reminds me, I'm getting a little hungry for some swine! Seriously! Hey, we agreed on something, at least!
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qwarkposted 15 years ago
Goldenpath:
your thoughts ref your beliefs in this god thing are as indelibly imbued in your mind as are those of islamic radicals.
I'm sure you are "fanatic."
I have written a "hub" on "Fanaticism."
You fit-the-bill perfectly.
Outwardly you may seem, to others, to be a "dedicated" humane person, but history has proved beyond doubt, that your ilk has been the bane of human progress and the perpetrator of untold death, pain and suffering. It continues on today!
You and your "type" are scary!
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. I think Goldenpath seems like an okay guy but just has some wacky beliefs about stuff going on around him. Mostly harmless.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Historically, people who refer to some other "ilk" in terms like "the bane of human progress" are too often themselves the "perpetrators of untold death, pain, and suffering."
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Valerie:
  Pls enumerate for me?
  Give me some examples of those whom you think fit-the-bill in ref. to those of my "ilk" being responsible for death and destruction, the bane of human progress.
  Ty
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ha-ha! Qwark already knows his own answer for this query and he is just toying with all of y'all common folk...and is enjoying your senseless responses, at the same time. Oops! Did I spoil the fun? LOL! Okay-okay, there is no salvation, for life doesn't permit it unless you build a 'time machine'...and you would still probably screw that up, as well!
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Obscure:
  Dang!....:-)
  There ya go, ruinin' my fun....lol
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am not Valerie but Hitler was one that thought the Jews were the ilk you speak of. You spoke of the bane of human existence. Pol Pot was another as was Stalin, Mussolini and others.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hilter in actuality killed the Jews because he was afraid of them. He knew they practiced powerful Kabbalistic magic and Hilter was a black magician but had weak magic. He made his people BELIEVE that all dark hair and brown eyed people were evil and to be killed.
  
  He took the equal armed cross symbol of well being (an ancient magical symbol used by the Jews) and turned it backward (the swastika symbol of ill will)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True its an ancient symbol representing goodness.
  
  The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Simple. You decry one group looking down on others, while you do just the same thing.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  VAlerie:
  As I thought, you aren't able to back up your proclamations.
  Instead you resort to "adhominem attack!"
  Jeez! I must consider you to be incredible and not worthy of further comment.
  Even your "tapdancing" around the barn lacks rythm and talent. But then, none of us is perfect...right?
  Wait!..... Your 'perfect" god thing said: "let us make man in our image!" That would make us perfect! WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?
  Did god goof?..oh my! lions and tigers and bears....oh my! is the Wizard a spoof?...OH MY!!! :-)
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is a copy ever as good as the original?
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thank you mightily! I am extraordinarily glad to have fit the build in your hub. I sincerely wish you and your hub work all the success in the world. It's great to see any one of us expressing our creativity.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  qwark appears to be a fanatic but doesn't see it.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah:
  Thats an interesting comment.
  Could you explain to me how you came to that conclusion?
  Ty.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, but my rule of thumb is to always use kindness. In the end it will always set us free during a conflict.
  
  May your week be prosperous!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you believe in Christ..?? There were times he used anger too. Not that he angered. There are times one must use it to put people in their place.
  
  Love is not always sweet words.
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easybusinesslinksposted 15 years ago
Salvation was ok, but I liked the original Terminator movie!!
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IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years ago
Words from a bright individual. That is how I feel.

Maybe others will start being more open now, with our confessions of wanted purity.

Thank you for sharing.
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IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years ago
Could be, however I personally interrupted it that at that point they rose to heaven with Christ. It is part of the why we celebrate the holy period of Pentecost. That time, when Christ arose and stayed with the disciples before ascending to heaven, to remain with God.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure who "we" is here.
  
  I thought Pentecost had to do with the Holy Spirit descending upon the apostles (in fiery tongues)...celebrated 50 days after Easter? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct, and ideally, it lines up with the Jewish feast of Shavuot, which is fifty days after Passover.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you
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IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years ago
I been known to think the exact same thing.
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IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years ago
Hey nothing wrong with your line of thinking. Glad you feel the same about Abraham, as I do. Good luck in your adventures to finding the truth, as you need to see it. I've been on my own personal journey, and what a great rewarding journey that is been. You know- don't forget to include a lesson or two, from the scientific approaches, to our higher power. I have even found some answers, with those people who have no beliefs. They tend to keep me in line, and in check with who I am and what I am.
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IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years ago
Hi Qwark. Yes, I know the old and new testament. Yes, I have read it several times. Along with the Qur'an, and Torah. So............, my bad. What was your point again?
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Intimat:
  Ah, so have I!
  There's just one thing, of many things, I think you may have overlooked...Lets just start with the evolution of man and his development of the anomaly "consciousness," which over a period of about 35 - 40k yrs has made him aware of "death" and it's permanancy.
  To an abjectly ignorant mind, that is frightening.
  Primitive man has created many powerful supernatural entities upon which it can seek assistance in times when unexplained happenings abound.
  Dig into the anthropological evolution of man and his propensity for religious belief..you may have an epiphany..:-)
  I wish ya luck...:-)
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now that is the real B.S. you are always speaking of. I believe in God and never think of an afterlife. I'm not afraid to die. That must be you.
  How can you tell someone what they believe and why?
  On top of that you act as though no once else has DUG into anything but you.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah:
  lolol...doesn't seem you have.
  Enuf said....:-)
  Whew!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm probably 1000 X smarter than you.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did I write somewhere that I believed in the creation story? Did I write that? No. Nor will you ever find that. As far as fables go, I rather enjoy the Lilith story. I wrote a hub about it. You might want to take notice to who you are wanting to debate with.
  
  Anyhow- would you like a lesson on the scripture I am speaking of? However, if you are what you say you are- what is your interpretation of that scripture I'm talking about, without Googling it?
  
  Are you even familiar with Pentecost? Maybe you can inform us on why Christians are to wear red on Sundays during that time frame? And what is that time frame?
  
  This is directed around Christ going to hell to release the likes of Noah, Abraham, Isaac, etc........
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Intimat:
  Thanks, but no thanks.I just read your "hub" about jesus's twin.
  After reading: "Needless to say, my bible(s) are with me almost twenty four hours a day. Let me start by saying that I firmly believe that true understanding has to come from several outside sources. It is when those outside sources intermingle with our sacred texts from our Christian bibles, that I usually say to myself, "We have a winner!" So I think it is safe to say, that most Protestant Christians, believe that the King Jame Version of the bible is "God's Holy Word", well this should please you greatly to see it in the mix. As for you Catholics like me, right along with my King James Bible, I keep my Catholic Bible too." I know exactly who and what I'm chatting with.
  I can't take you seriously. You seem to be just another easily led follower (certainly not a "studied" thinker) of the "ilk" I mentioned earlier in a reply to someone.
  Thanks tho for your replies...appreciated! :-)
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IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years ago
By the way, you've never visited my hubs before have you? That's okay. However, if you had you'd know that I have studied the historical biblical aspects of the bible. Matter of fact, I've been known to teach a class or too. Write several articles, been to a couple of world conventions on biblical matters, I've..........

Would you like a photo copy of my creditability? Or do we just have to have your viewpoint in this forum post, to participate?
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No need to feed the trolls, friend...Not worth your time or energy.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Inimat:
  Not necessary...:-)
  Your words are indicative of the "intellect" and understanding you have derived from your "studies."
  I wish you well. :-)
  Ps...I will read some of your "Hubs" to see where you are in ref to that which we are discussing...Ty.
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IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years ago
Apparently Qwark you do not.

Liked how you avoided answering any of my questions. Could not find them on Google quite so easily. Typical to say the least.

Your rudeness on such matters of discussion, have grown increasingly predictable. Hows that working for you on the business side of things?

Nevermind.
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qwarkposted 15 years ago
Sir Dent, Goldenpath, 21 days and Brenda Durham:

I find it NECESSARY to lay on the floor and LMAO!

I know, I am so disrespectful of those who publicly exhibit such abject, slavish, primitive adulation for supernatural divinities!
I know that you are convinced that I am an "unlearned" boorish dolt...so pray for me that this "god" thing may shine "it's" light upon this poor lost soul and deliver it...it....ooohh jeez! I'm laughing so hard I can't type!!!!
I have to stop now...:-) :-) :-)..............
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is your choice to do so if you wish. It tells more about your character than it does ours.
  
  I am also glad that you saw where I said you were boorish and unlearned. You should provide a link for that if you can remember where it was stated.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Praise God! I count it Joy that you're hearing about the Word Jesus Christ, qwark.
  Now if you would only stop being so foolish and listen......
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can't!!!!...I'm still laughing!!! :-)
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Pro 15:13 A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ...that your joy may be full. :-)
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Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago
Enjoy while you can.

But you might want to consider stopping being so foolish.

The Word says wisdom will
"..laugh at your calamity;....mock when your fear cometh;"
(Proverbs 1: 26.)
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
as for language translation: most substantial historical records are Hebrew or Greek. since at the time most people spoke them. Latin & Germanic based languages cannot translate accurately.

if anything, the Babylonian scribes would have the best records, the Hebrews during their captivity wrote their history in common tongue.

Now -i know this will cause an uproar, but what the hay- if people remove the 'new testament' letters (ps, they are not books, but letters), then that leaves Tanakh or Torah. Torah is a history book, containing chronology, prophecy, history, poetry and prose.

most believers have never actually studied it but use it frequently. some say if you remove the 'new testament' then you remove salvation and Y`shua. My question is then: what book have you been reading. To understand salvation by any perspective: Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Hebrew, you have to go back to the history book those items were taken from -Talmud.
to understand salvation you need to understand COVENANT and its parts. Do you know hwy the teachers were so angry @ Y`shua's words. Do you know why He went where he went, said what he said and why it drew millions to him.

Study Abram covenant.
Study Mosaic law.
Study the history.

When you put them together, you can't miss the Truth.
Once you have it, salvation is a given, a reason to be excited, celebrate and completely open yourself to the Teacher.

else, you are just quoting books and letters and never actually understanding what any of it really means.
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  Disappearingheadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can agree to this. I have been critcsed for quoting fro the OT, but as Jesus said, the scriptures all talk about Him. Whatever we study in the NT must be studied in conjuction with the OT.
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
This tells about the Languages
http://www.mountlebanon.org/aramaiclanguage.html
And Aramaic is still spoken today.
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Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago
Let me try to get this straight---

So...to you, the Beginning is God, but God was not the Beginning....?
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  cheaptrickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God is Ineffable,Indescribable.To describe God requires comparison or likeness to something understandable to the human mind,that humanizes God bringing God Down to the level of Humans.
  We have the Affirmation"GOD IS",beyond that we Hope God has certain Qualities and some have Faith God does.
  "GOD"has always Been.We are our own Beginning...To me at least...
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SirDentposted 15 years ago
After reading a few posts from the last couple of days I thought I would chime in also. It seems many have been writing about languages and tongues as if they need to be learned before being able to understand what the Bible says.

How many people actually are able to learn the Hebrew and Greek languages? Very few have the time or abilitiy to do so. This leaves us at a crossroad. How does one get the truth from the Bible?

Except you are born again you will not see the kingdom of God. being born again means born of the spirit. Without the Holy Ghost one cannot find the truth of the Bible. It doesn't matter what language it was written in. God is the one who gives the interpretation.

All this talk of having to learn the original languages to be able to see what the Bible says is just an attempt to have everyone depend upon someone else to give the interpretations. In other words, we would have to depend upon another man or woman to tell us what the Bible says. Kind of sounds like it was in the days of the pharisees.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Spirit teaches us and at times just through revelation. BUT we are suppose to study the word. If the word we study is wrong then we learn wrong. To say the name of God it must be correct. Like calling Yah Shua Jesus, is incorrect. To say Jesus or Yah Shua is God is also wrong. Yah Shua never taught this even once. He wanted us to look up and see GOD the FATHER.
  
  I Corinthians 15:
  
  24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
  28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Study is very important. Spirit always teaches us, but only if we listen to the spirit. Jesus spoke what He was told to speak. Even though Jesus was in a human body, it was the spirit of God that was inside the body. Jesus spoke of the Father because he was in flesh.
  
  Tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up again. Jesus Christ.
  
  Names are names. Jesus is just a translation of the original name. In actuality a closer (modern) translation would be Joshua.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Names are names? I beg to differ.
  Acts 4:12
  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Iēsous
  Thayer Definition:
  Jesus = “Jehovah is salvation”
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever you say...
  
  Yah Shua
  
  No such word as Jehovah, this is a mistransliteration.
  
  But it's between you and God.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You think your measly definition of the Name above all others is fact?
  You are so wrong. Iesous is a mistransliteration into Greek.
  And Jehovah is a mistransliteration of the I.H.V.H. which is the unspeakable name of the Father not of the Christ.
  
  Christ was born and named Immanuel but he said he came in his Fathers name (Yah) to tell us God the father would save us (Shua) and his name was therefore Yah Shua. By using the name Yah Shua he was revealing to us the name of the Father.
  
  Instead of quoting someone else's misinformation and proclaiming it as truth, why don't you learn on your own.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Drama queen? Teach yourself? How many two year olds have taught themselves to read?
  
  Everything you say has been taught you by someone else. Do you make up your own definitions? You should hear me when I speak. I am sure I use the wrong accent.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have to say that YOU are the drama queen. Remember, personal attacks like name calling is not allowed. No I did not learn everything I know from someone else. That is where you are very wrong, Find where someone taught what I just said. Many times things will be revealed to me and I will later find that one or two already knew it.. But I rely on what I find out not on others.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So then you admit it all comes from your own mind.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's called revelation. Never had one? Thought not!
  Everything comes from the mind. If it wasn't for the mind no one would even know they are alive.
  We are our minds.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But our minds are not God. DUH!!!
  
  I think I'll take my ball and go home and not play with you anymore.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good.you still don't even understand. SIR Dent yeah right.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very Christian of you.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And very predictable of you. Ever heard of the Jezebel spirit?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever heard of the rules here? No name calling. This is twice and I've let it slide. I won't the third time. This is a personal attack.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Report.
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  Disappearingheadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whilst I agree with much of your sentiment, I did purchase a Greek literal because I just didn't have the confidence that the three translations I have RSV, NIV, NLT, were giving me correct and unbiased translations. Each of these bibles prefaces with comments that their translators 'interpreted' what the writer was trying to say where the Greek did not have equivalent English terms and idioms.
  
  A Greek literal gives me a word for word English under neath each Greek word. This then allows me to seek to understand for myself once I've put the words in an English order.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't meaning to not look at the Greek and Hebrew texts if you have them. I am simply saying that no matter what text you use, it is by the Spirit that God's Word is revealed.
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  Disappearingheadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agree. If we rely on our own understanding we will be like the crowds who are ever hearing but not understanding and ever seeing but not perceiving. Even with the original texts we need His spirit to reveal the truth of what we are reading.
  
  However, because we are falible and prone to believe what we see in the first instance, I do not what someone else's interpretatino to colour what 'm reading.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you're happy with the more than 20,000 errors in the KJV version of the Bible, and happy with limiting your abilities to learn something new...so be it. But I'm pretty sure that there are politically motivated mis-translations in the Bible, and I'd prefer to cut through the crap.
  
  It wasn't written in English, therefore it ought to be easy to understand that English MIGHT NOT give you a proper understanding of what is being said. I have the most experience with translating Latin and Spanish...and I am here to tell you, it is difficult at times because other languages contain ideas that we DON'T EVEN HAVE WORDS FOR. The lie that most Christians believe about people being tortured for eternity is enough to show me that English isn't cutting it when it comes to the Bible. Try figuring out exactly how to translate "Je ne sais quoi"--the English literal translation DOES NOT do justice to the actual meaning of the phrase.
  
  While I agree that wisdom and knowledge can be gained elsewhere, I think if you're going to study the Bible, you need to open yourself up to other languages, history, and ancient culture. If not, you are depriving yourself of its meaning and application to your life. *shrug* God gave us brains capable of holding many terrabytes of information; mine is nowhere near full and I suspect yours isn't either.
  
  Fortunately for those who do not want to take the time to learn two entirely new languages...there are concordances and Greek literal/Hebrew literal translations that are quite good. They can just as easily be used to gain a better understanding of what the Bible was originally written to convey.
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  Disappearingheadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The problem with the church is it threw away it's Jewish culture 1800 years ago and took on a Greek/Roman mindset. Consequently we don't have a full grasp of the meaning of the NT which was written from a Jewish mindset.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is a common misconception which is easily dispelled by even superficial study of Catholic liturgy, which is very heavily influenced by Jewish liturgy.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  While I agree that's a big problem, that's not nearly the only problem with the man-made church, IMO
  
  The fact that it has become the Whore spoken of in Revelation...THAT'S the problem
  
  I don't--and never have--belonged to any man-made church.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
99% of the errors concerning scripture are found in our 1000's of interpretations of one simple truth. There is truth written in prophesy; when we rid ourselves of our misguided beliefs that were caused by somebodys private interpretation of prophesy. Too many interpretations have been taught as if these were the inspired word of God.
If you can read these prophesy as if you were an attorney and you were reading a legal document; really reading what is actually written you would see these prophesy in a diffrent light. THEN it will become easier to recognize some of the obviously mistranslated verses in scripture.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Yet despite the thousands of different views, individuals would have you believe they and only they have the "truth"
The bible is hard to understand for a reason. It is a psychotic pile of lies from start to finish!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If we could take away 1000's of diffrent personal interpretations from our understand of scripture, it would not be that difficult to understand much more than we do.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Jeremi, I would like to know how anyone could turn this hateful pile into anything that could be understood by anyone.
The funny thing is I do understand the madness, I was indoctrinated into it as others have been, and bought the whole deal. n intensive 2 year bible study in Hebrew and Greek was sufficient for me to see the madness not only in the thousands of interpretations, but in the original as well.

It is a mishmash of selected stories designed to control other men, it is not plausible, and has in my view become a madness that requires education or even psychiatric assistance to eradicate.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Good day Earnest
That is actually a good question. And thanks for asking it.
Don't think that I can find an adequate answer ...But here I go anyway... HO HO.
I don't know how to explain why but I do believe the prophetic message of the prophets. And to apply them as they were intended and to whom and when; It becomes much more understandable. Ya don't have to agree with something to understand it.
On several occasions You have posted verses where God had given instructions to kill everyone in a city that the Hebrews invaded. This you say is psychotic.
This is an overly simplified explanation as best as I can explain how I believe.
If you believe that life continues after death of the physical body and that this life is not ours but Gods. He can take it out of this realm and it emerges in another place or time??? .. And if this life force that is in this physical body is but a minute piece of whatever God is... When this "LIFE" returns to its source it would not seem to be such a bad thing when God takes it back before I was intending to let go of it. And all of this happens for the better good of society as a whole ??? Whether we can understand how this could be; or not.
I have to believe in something cause it seems insane to me to believe in nothing.
As I said before; I believe the prophesy of the prophets.
For me "Religious" teachings have to conform to these prophesy.
Not the other way around. That would be a great place to start rethinking what we have learned.
Live if full of opposits. for every action there is an opposit reaction etc.
Religion is a Good thang and Religion is a bad thing bepending upon what ya do with it.
That is as good as I can answer your question ..Sorry !
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for the explanation Jeremi, a good effort, and gracious.
  
  I cannot understand why people jump through a thousand invisible hoop to base the lives they live now on religion, it seems to me to be a waste of precious time.
  I cannot see how allowing a child to die in agony is in any way godly, humane or sensible. I do not see why a god who can look after a religionists chickens, yet allow the horrible death of a child, I do not see why anyone would want or need the sort of god that they settle for. To be honest I see the christian god like a horrible microbe. Nothing big, nothing honorable, nothing even decent about a god like that.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest,
  
  I'm sooo looking forward to the day when you have something, anything, good to say about the Lord.....
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To use a bit of your god stuff. Hell will freeze over before I believe in fairies at the bottom of my garden Brenda!
  Why would I believe in a god? I have an education!
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
@ Earnest Just woke up and started my wake up first cop of coffee so this is definitely a thinking out moment...
AM not saying this is true but a momentary brain cramp sort of thing.
You will say that this is crazy and it probably is.
Many spiritualists believe that we are reincarnated. And we choose our next life.
Maybe these starving children were almost saved and this is their way of atoning their sins (In Their mind) in a previous life. they are showing the world how selfish it really is' Or something like that I don't know???
As I said I am still asleep (mostly)
(and this was just a bad dream??)
I gotta get dressed in a few and start my day.. goina pour a little concrete fix a garage door and fix a roof leak.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
When we read scripture; we already think that we know what we are about to read. Preconceived ideas influence what we think that we are reading. Many preconceived ideas have come from misINTerpretations that we have been taught.
Until we free our selves from these preconceived ideas we will never understand scripture the way it is written nor understand their intended message.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Some more bible "love"

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Have we missed anyone who should be killed?
I know, I know, You rip this bit out and throw it away, and anyway it was meant for someone else right?
Ever entered your mind that this is supposedly the word of god?
Anyone anywhere at any time speaking of any people like this is a nutter plain and simple!
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Do men get to fornicate for free?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  According to my reading of scripture, bet your ass they do!
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Okay pastor, I'll give my tithes to YOUR church!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good show! We have a special on virgins at the moment!
  We even force them to marry their rapist if you like!
  
  "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."
  
  .....Of course the young lady would be thrilled by this marriage!
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My mind is trying to classify this as a Shotgun Wedding...
  It just doesn't quite seem to be fitting...
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Seeing as I might have lost my raping equipment (it's in the shop for repair), what do you have in the way of eternal salvation? You know, just in case I get back to sinning again.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well we have John in the new testament handing it out to one and all!
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Was that John the Baptist? I was hoping for something a little less energetic, like maybe a Lutheran.
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Faybe Bayposted 15 years ago
Is this where I intrduce my Larry Norman Link?

Oh yes it is about salvation I am on topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf5nFxY3rA
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nice link, funny guy!
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  Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks
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  Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am almost an expert on him.
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Oh boy. I don't know if you should get mixed up with earnest. He has no morals or ethics. He's a... I forget what he calls himself but it's really bad.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's blasphemy! I could sue if I was a god! I am an antidisastablishmentarianist I think, I dunno what it means.
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Faybe Bayposted 15 years ago
My brother was bad, you do not have to read the hub. My brother the inventor. But see I understand bad as it is just about the influences on a childs life from parents to community...

Aw crap I think I am in the wrong forum... You gotta keep me straight or I might hijack a thread.
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
And this is just getting to be really good. Good night earnest. Fun as always.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Goodnight Oh rider of the nite!
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  Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  nite
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Faybe Bayposted 15 years ago
So who wants to play a game
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

I like this passage the best of the ones mentioned above ... because two verses before tells us when these things are going to happen.

Actually the eleventh chapter tells us when these things are to occur. 11:1 "In the first year of Darius the Mede..." Daniel receives this vision. When Darius's first year was is much debated. It had to have been between 535 and 538 BC.
This chapter tells that there are going to be three kings to rule over Persia after Cyrus the great. Cyrus the Great appointed Darius king over the realm of the Chaldean's (Babylonians).
Greece was identified as being the third kingdom in chapter eight. But in chapter eleven the identity is not specifically stated as such though it is discussed as is the fourth kingdom coming into power.
11:45 "And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end and none shall help him." And at that time shall Michael stand up ... and AT THAT TIME shall thy people be delivered... and many of them that sleep in the earth."
This is not speaking of the first resurrection as described in Rev. 20.
This happened when that Hebrew nation ceased to exist around 135 AD. The fourteenth Emperor ("Little Horn") came to his end in 138 AD.

This is what these verses actually say that Gabriel said; when not interpreted
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Gog and Magog has been identified as Persia
  
  http://hashem1.net/index.php?p=361& … gMagog.htm
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I may be wrong; but I think that this fits in with what I just said ???
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
the church as a whole is the harlot. the law and ritual the beast & false prophet.

the deception lays in one 'thinking' or remaining conscious of sin. so long as one remains in mind or flesh (action of mind) one can never be one with the Spirit. The Spirit is Life and Light.

so long as books and concerns about 'salvation' continue to be argued and quoted, the longer one will miss the point. Salvation has come to all man. books are for those weak in spirit. Those weak in spirit cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

if any quote should be spoken it is this (concerning believers):

"Follow me, and let the death bury their own kind"

meaning:

those burying the dead are dead themselves, there is no Life in them.

Interesting isn't it?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The mind? It is the raising of consciousness that makes us one with God. We aren't suppose to do away with mind. It is the flesh. Not in what we can taste or touch but ego, hate etc.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
in part. one is born conscious of sin/death.
the works of the mind move the body/the flesh to will and to do.

but this is not our course as human beings.
our nature is spirit with mind & body.

the mind is the translator/doorway between heart & body.
as the saying: it is not what a man puts in him that defiles, but what come out. The fruit of the spirit is evident in the thoughts and actions of men. Where then does this fruit grow? The spirit, the heart.

to be conscious of sin/death is to still adhere to the law of sin/death. But if you have that measure of faith -as a child, the size of a mustard seed- the mountain of sin/death (logic/reason/thought) must yield and move...

fyi, for all you believers: a small history lesson from Hebrew: it was because of these sayings, to the teachers, thinkers of law that they tore their robes and covered their ears in a fit of rage and sought to crucify the Word. Because all their knowledge, learning and thought was of no value in His eyes. Because law is teaching of sin/death.

you do not need to know the law to be righteous
you do not need to study law to be righteous
you do not need to quote law to appear righteous

you need the Spirit who has made you righteous!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The carnal mind yes. I'll have to disagree with you on some of this. Without your mind what would you know? It says to have the mind of Christ and the spirit will raise you up. Renewing the mind.
  
  I'm married to a Rabbi and I speak Hebrew and never heard any of this before.
  
  Christ came to fulfill the law. not to do away with it. The law hurts those who break the law not those who don't.
  
  Faith comes by hearing the word. The word is God's law.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
the law destroys both the clean (the hearer or keeper) and unclean (the gentile). the law was for all men and all men judged by it for all men were sinful.

the Word came to -exactly- fulfill all law and prophecy.
He then rose to the highest place and ALL THINGS put beneath His feet. So then, we are the Body. All things -signs, wonders, demons, angels, laws, judgment, sin, death, prophecy, etc. are beneath those who believe.

why then do the children of the Most High return to the grave, the mud pits of Egypt? Why do they remain slaves to sin? Because they are taught to remain conscious -in mind & body- of their once sinful nature. So then, they eat the fruit of sin all day long and the wages of it is death.

Adam was beyond consciousness, living in fullness WITH the Word/Spirit who walked with him. Not before him, as the Cloud & Pillar of Fire, not behind him as to cast a shadow.

He is all things -both law and prophet.
He is faith, which framed all the worlds.
Who better to teach us than His own Spirit?

to each was given a measure of faith.
to each was given the gift of salvation.
to each was given the Word in mouth and heart.
to each is given the Spirit when they ask.
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 8:27
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:12
For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
precisely, Deborah, renew -that is to make new- the works of the mind. To remove all consciousness of sin/death (all human logic).
For it was this same logic/reason/thinking that caused man to stumble from the beginning.
Being convinced that he 'needed to know both good from evil'.

This is the Law fulfilled: Grace has come onto all man.
That grace found in a few before him.

Grace is beyond the mind & body and even spirit of man, yet He has made man His dwelling place...
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We agree on many things, but I must disagree on one point. If you show me in scripture where sin/death is defined as human logic, I will believe you, but I do not believe that you--or anyone else--can do such a thing.
  
  God made reason in man (thus logic). He asks us to "reason with Him." Therefore it makes no sense that sin/death is the same as human logic...I will, however, concede that the imperfection of human logic has, at times, helped people to commit sin/fall into death...but that is not the same thing; it has, at times, also done the opposite.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the mind of Christ is the Anointing, which is Grace, the fullness of righteousness.
  What I have been attempting to explain is that our original thinking was not the one we have today.
  Adam was on with grace, having full understanding of things.
  It was then he accepted something else that his thought became who he was. He became a slave to his own mind; became conscious of good-evil/sin-death. To this day, the same thing is happening.
  
  1. He hid -why did he? where did that thought come from
  2. He was afraid -why was he? where did he get that thought.
  3. He argued with the Spirit -blaming his wife & 'serpent'.
  
  Immediately upon accepting logic/reason (knowledge) he became a slave to it. Before this he was beyond thought as we perceive.
  for all collective thought of man is foolishness to Him, yes?
  
  Same in this; those 'outside' the law -having never heard or read it- accepted the gift of Grace and immediately the Spirit came upon Cornelius and all his household...
  
  The Law of the Spirit of Life (Grace) that is in the Anointed Word/Truth (Y`shua Moshiach) has set us free from the Law of sin/death (logic).
  Else we could say we 'saved ourselves' through learning the law -as thought/think my fellow Hebrews and as think the 'Christians' of today. They comb the scripts endlessly reading, quoting, barking but never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds like a cool comic book!
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really think that God wasn't aware that Adam would disobey? Don't you think God opened that way on purpose with full knowledge of what would happen? What do you think is the point of free will?
  
  God doesn't want robots without minds. He wants minds that know the difference between good and evil so they can choose it of their own free will. Denial of the mind is not the way. The mind is not the problem.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Free will to choose Life, not death.
  
  this is covenant. choose Life that you may live.
  it is obvious He knew what adam was going to do and knew He would sent himself in the flesh to restore humanity to that place.
  
  the mind is part of the problem.
  because instead of living beyond thought, we choose to serve our thoughts, rather than the Word discerning itself in us. soul from spirit, bone from its marrow, thought from the intents of the heart.
  
  these are all characteristics of Adam, beforehand. Instead of thinking about his nakedness, or the weather or food, etc he was walking with the Word naming animals -assisting in creation.
  
  infinite in ability, strength, longevity etc.
  remember, Adam was made in His image & likeness.
  even the angel was jealous of how awesome Adam was!
  made just a little lower than Him, full of His glory.
  Adam was perfect -a complete creation of body, mind & spirit.
  
  -what a great and awesome Creator!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But this is not what you WERE alluding to.
  The mind is the doorway to the spirit. The mind is needed. The carnal mind is what made man and still makes man fall.
  
  God made man so he could give to him. Mankind are the receivers. But man wanted to receive pleasure from the flesh only and not the things of God from God.
  I'm a Kabbalist and to me the mind is very important.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It was when he separated good from evil. In God there is only unity in man duality. This means he perceives one as bad and one as good.
  Male and female are complimentary polar opposites. Both are needed.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
Simplified:

at one point human beings has full understanding.
the acceptance of the 'need to know' is the sin resulting in death aka consciousness.

I believe when we are truly led by the Spirit, we can again be full understanding to this end: as the Resurrected Anointing is -and as we can be through Him, only, and put on the robes of righteousness. As Paul put it, some would not sleep be but transformed.

This would mean being full of the Spirit, lacking no thing.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
nothing wrong with the mind. It is a part of the human being yes.
but we ought to be led by Spirit so that our mind can easily be renewed (the yolk of ease, burden of light).

Perhaps better stated is: people -believing or not- are still stuck in the mind or the body and neglect the spirit in them.

Grace thru Faith: the Spirit in our spirit, into mind, then into body. thus, all parts of us working together, being glorified vessels of His glory. Full of every good thing, lacking nothing.

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lyricsingrayposted 15 years ago
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
"In God there is only unity in man duality."

Deborah, you sound just like me. lol
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TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years ago
I believe what you are calling "The Law" is what is commonly referred to as "The letter of the law;" it is that which kills the Spirit. This is made quite clear.
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