“I’m an atheist, but one who believes in miracles”: Dr. Jacalyn Duffin

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   paarsurreyposted 15 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   An interesting article from Holy Post, titled “Saintly ‘science’: When doctors and doubters are called upon to prove miracles”
   
   Dr. Jacalyn Duffin, a hematologist, lapsed Anglican and firm atheist,
   
   “Catholic audiences go nuts when I say I’m still an atheist,” said Dr. Duffin, who laughs a lot when she tells about her role in saint-making. “They say, ‘How can you not be a believer having done all you’ve done?’
   
   “I’m an atheist, but one who believes in miracles. I’m prepared to believe there can be more than one truth out there at any given time.”
   
   http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blog … acles.aspx
   
   For your worthy comments and understanding life
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      From this point on you are ignored.
      Enuf is enuf....click...gone! Off to "iggyland."

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   skyfireposted 15 years ago

   And trolling goes on, seriously do we have a life other than islam spam ? i mean what awesome sci-fi effect will be there if all forums members agree with you and becomes islamic ? any close call of judgement day ?
   
   

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   Lady_Eposted 15 years ago

   Nothing wrong with that. You don't have to be of any religion to believe in Miracles...

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      paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend Lady_E
      
      You are right; miracles do happen.
      
      I understand some scientific discoveries were made for such experieces. The Creator- God Allah YHWH shows of himself in a number of ways. God is the greatest; no doubt.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      ryankettposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yep you sure can, like Tom Jones!

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         AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Is this what you are referring to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of-ABC-0KM8

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            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Great! I watched it.

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               AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Are you familiar with Catatonia in Australia? I don't think they did much, if anything, in North America. But it is hard for me to say, as I was in Europe at the time...

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                  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I only know catatonia as a form of schizophrenia.

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                     AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     They're Welsh (hence the weird way she pronounces things... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK8btpWl … re=related)

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                        earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Fantastic! Thanks for that, great song! Great group! I will ad them to my collection. Never heard of them before. I feel my kids would be horrified that I did not know them! She almost sounds Australian!

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                           AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Your kids may have been pretty young when they were big, (I know you said you have grandkids, so I am assuming your kids are grown), so they may not have known them...

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                              earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              Both my grown son and daughter are crazy about music, I would bet they kept up. If not my 17 year old granddaughter will know them.
                              I'm going to ask them.

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                  ryankettposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  They were pretty short lived in the UK in fairness.... victims of the fall of Britpop. Mulder and Scully, and Road Rage, were released to great critical acclaim about the same time that Be Here Now had pretty much killed the movement. Then they went back to lower chart obscurity....
                  
                  I am actually currently developing a blog dedicated to BritPop.... I will let you know when its presentable and throw you the link

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                     ryankettposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh and that Road Rage video is already on the blog as it happens! Coincidence that.... considering I only have 19 posts at the moment....Maybe I could show you some music when its all done, I probably could! I picked up a great keyword domain for that too....

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                     AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks for that. I think I was in Germany when they were around (I was there from 1994 to 1997, and in London from 1997 to 2001), so I may have been somewhat out of the loop...

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                        ryankettposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Well its all a bit subjective really. I have just written 1500 words on the history of Britpop....
                        
                        Some people say 1992-1997 and others say 1993-1998
                        
                        I concluded 1992-1997, with a few that hung on for another year. Catatonia were around since the early nineties.... those two singles were released between Jan 98 - March 98.... they basically emerged from obscurity just as the scene had fallen.
                        
                        Bad luck basically.... Although Cerys Matthews is still fit, I have a thing about her, she does some solo stuff now.

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                           AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           I was just back in the UK as of early '98, which would explain why I remembered them, I guess.

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   secularist10posted 15 years ago

   What is a miracle?

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      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      A miracle is usually something that someone claimed happened that couldn't and didn't happen!

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      paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friends
      
      One definition of miracles:
      
      "Miracles are not seen in Islam as unnatural occurrences, but as natural phenomena that are concealed from human knowledge at that period of time. Otherwise, there would be many questions raised against the wisdom of God. If God created the laws of nature Himself, He should have made some provisions whereby without breaking them, He could bring about desired solutions to a problem.
      
      Not all laws are known to man. There are categories of laws working as if in different tiers and on separate plains. Sometimes they are known to man only on one plain and man’s sight is not able to penetrate beyond. As time goes on, man’s knowledge increases, so does the penetration and his capacity to observe such laws as hitherto remained unperceived. In another era of scientific progress, new discoveries throw more light on such laws which seem to work in groups. So, not only is their function better understood but also their interaction with other laws.
      
      Those things that appeared to be miracles in the early ages are no longer considered so. Miracles are so, only in relation to man’s knowledge in a specific period of time. When a special exercise of God’s power is displayed, apparently a law is broken. But it is not so; it is a hidden law that was already there and came into operation through God’s command. The people of that time could not have understood that law nor had they any control over it.
      
      For example, the force of magnetism was not known to man a few thousand years ago. If somebody had accidentally discovered it and had contrived a device by which he could levitate things without any apparent cause discernible to the naked eye and to the wonderment of everyone, he could then exclaim, ‘Lo, a miracle, a miracle’. Today, such tricks are considered common place and trivial. The knowledge of man is limited whereas that of God is unlimited. If a law comes into operation that is beyond the scope of man’s knowledge, it looks like a miracle. But looking retrospectively at such instances with the hindsight of knowledge gained since, we can dismiss all such so-called breaches of the laws of nature as merely natural phenomena which were not fully comprehended by the man of that age.
      
      This is why I said that there had to be a natural phenomenon responsible for the single parent birth of Jesus Christ, which was unknown to man of that period; it is not fully known to man even today. But science is advancing in that direction and more is being understood. A time may therefore come, when no one will be able to claim that the birth of Jesus was unnatural. They would have to agree that it was a natural but rare occurrence, so rare that it seldom occurs in human experience."
      
      http://www.alislam.org/library/books/ch … Id-1006069
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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         Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         These phenomena are what becomes fathomable when your consciousness expands.  Makes it very understandable for an atheist to believe in miracles - miracles being those events that are only unexplainable by a limited mind.
         
         There was no natural phenomenon for the parent birth of Jesus.  Mary was a virgin in the context of what a virgin was described to be - a woman of purity not a woman who conceived a child without sexual means.  Pure of heart, pure of mind = virgin.  Misinterpretation and not a miracle.

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         secularist10posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Paarsurrey:
         Fascinating! So if this is your definition of miracles, it would seem that you place great confidence in science and the process of scientific discovery.
         
         From your definition, it follows that we should place faith not in any higher power in order to explain a miracle, but rather in the human mind. Right?

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         Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         That statement would require knowledge of those unknown laws, hence the statement is a non sequitur. 
         
         
         
         No new discoveries have brought any new light onto the known laws, another non sequitur.
         
         
         
         That is what's called a strawman argument.
         
         
         
         "Tricks" as they are called here like magnetism are not the so-called miracles claimed by believers as miracles. Strawman.
         
         
         
         It's called rape or myth, take your choice. 

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5. 49

   paarsurreyposted 15 years ago

   Hi friend
   
   I don't see any contradiction in Religion and Science. Revelation is a good source of human knowledge while Science is a continuous process; it is not a final word.
   
   Thanks

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      secularist10posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Your definition of a miracle indicates that science is sufficient for explaining miracles, which means that revelation is not needed.

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      Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Don't you think you actually have to know something about science before comparing it to your belief system?

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         paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Hi friend beelzedad
         
         Don't you think you actually have to know something about Religion before comparing it to your belief system?
         
         The Revelation is from the Creator- God Allah YHWH who created the Universe and all whithin it; He knows much more than the Science as it is a continuous process and not yet final.
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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            Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            What belief system do I have?
            
            
            
            Just like when you are not in a position to offer legal advice just because your brother is a lawyer, you cannot offer opinions on science just because you claim your god knows more about it than I do.

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            getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            Why does God Allah need you to speak for him?  You seem to know all about him.  Why doesn't God Allah just speak for Himself?  Or is God Allah just too timid to assert himself, and resorts to having you stand up for his omniscience?
            
            I'm going to regard God Allah as only a figment of your imagination, because this rhetoric seems to be coming only from your pretending to be Allah's proxy...when in reality Allah is a nonentity.

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               paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Hi friend getitrite
               
               The Creator- God Allah YHWH has always spoken to the perfect men; which is called Word of Revelation. Quran is one before you.
               
               Thanks
               
               I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  Could you explain what that statement means?  I still don't understand why God needs you to speak for Him.  To me, it seems downright foolish to be omnipotent, and need the aid of another to do something as basic as communicating. 
                  
                  I don't need you to tell me about God, I need God to tell me about Himself.  If he is omnipotent, that should be no problem.

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                     paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi friend getitrite
                     
                     The Omnipotent Creator- God Allah YHWH, as I explained earlier cannot be seen with the physical eyes; those who insist on seeing him are wrong. Our senses won't bear seeing him; he is kind enough to show us in a merciful way he has chosen for us.
                     
                     Moses' people asked Moses to show them YHWH in person; later they had to reverse their stand:
                     
                     [7:144] And when Moses came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘My Lord, show Thyself to me that I may look at Thee.’ He replied, ‘Thou shalt not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it remains in its place, then shalt thou see Me.’ And when his Lord manifested Himself on the mountain, He broke it into pieces and Moses fell down unconscious. And when he recovered, he said, ‘Holy art Thou, I turn towards Thee, and I am the first to believe.’
                     
                     http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=141
                     
                     Thanks
                     
                     I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                     paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi friend getitrite
                     
                     God Allah YHWH does not need us; it is we who need him. He has bestowed us life and everything we cherish in; it is his mercy; if he wants to bestow us more in the hereafter; that is his more mercy.
                     
                     If we don’t achieve the purpose of life; which is nearness to him; then we fail, it is our own fault not of Him.
                     Thanks
                     
                     I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                        earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        In the hereafter?
                        I am hereafter some common sense, unfortunately none here!

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   mega1posted 15 years ago

   You may disagree, but I think its a miracle that people actually read all this b.s.!

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   dfagerposted 15 years ago

   The sun will rise tomorrow regardless of whether I believe it will or not.  God can exist with or without anyone believing as well.  People tend to believe that truth or reality is within their grasp of understanding.
   
   Miracles are not only when something happens that's far outside the human concept of truth.  Miracles tend to bring other elements with them like wonder, astonishment; it's like Niagara Falls, awe inspiring, breath taking.  Miracles require a response from a human being that is outside of reason and often invokes strong feelings.  It's not that feelings have anything to do with knowledge and truth, but they remind us that we are more complex than just the intellect.  And the intellect has its limitations.  People tend to forget the complexity of their own being and one of our greatest attributes is our ability to love.
   
   Flowers are a miracle in my perspective because there is no reason for them to exist with colors, shapes and fragrances that are pleasing to humans.  Their purpose is to attract insects and birds for pollination, like rotting carcasses can attract insects.
   
   When we explore reality with our whole being and not just with the intellect, then we can believe in God.  I suppose one can believe in miracles without God. Soren Kierkegaard supported the concept that the only way to believe in God was existentially.

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