Actually, Jesus did not prophesy incorrectly, according to my beliefs. People's interpretation of what the second coming is is incorrect. The second coming is the state of Christ consciousness that Jesus was exampling to them. Some of his disciples were able to become Christ minded to a great degree of what Jesus was...they performed healings..in Christ's name...with the "backing" of Jesus' Christ attainment. They were exampling the Christ second coming, toward the maturity of it (the second coming).
And there were many people that were Jesus followers that no doubt were attaining their Christhood as well...as there have been since that time.
This is an interesting concept. I do see your point and believe that there is definitely some truth to that thought. I beilieve as you have said that we can all become Christ, in a matter of speaking. Man kind was created in the image of God. Since the fall of man(In the garden) our godly nature has been tarnished. He gives us His spirit to lead us into becoming more and more like Him. In my hub walking after the spirit, I speak about related topics.
Very good subject.
I believe that our godlyness was lost when we asked the question why? To ask in the first place, was mans fault.
If man is created in the image of Jesus, then Jesus was a "sinner" as well.
If man is created in the image of God, then we are a collection of quirks, atoms, whateva, drawn together by pure form God energy and thus we are created in the image of God.
I believe in the Spirit, I belive Jesus was a man, also created in the image of God (as a collection of matter, or structures or atoms etc., by the terms I use, but I do not believe that we were ever lost, I don't believe we ever become disconnect from God, but we reform, reshape, redo, and all because we asked why.
And so God said: here you go, this is why, deal with it and get back to me when you get it.
So you do not have to depend or worship God or Jesus or anyone else in order to realize God.
But anyone who does experience God, reaches for the "stars", because out there and down here our personal Hell, we can learn everything we need to know.
So sitting in the attitude that we have to do this or that, doesn't mean anything to me because I do not believe in the God that people toss around in words.
Search for God, not just in your heart, not just in your mind, but also in the stars, also in the invisable, also in the nothing.
Nothing is God, the pure untouched, undefiled energy that created our existance. That is without a doubt God to me. And I don' t have to do anything I don't want to do, nor do I have to accept blood for acceptance. Because the complete obliteration of the body and loss of our own blood, is in itself the acceptance back into the becoming of pure undefiled energy, in the Nothing is the pure existence of All.
I would say, set your eyes and heart in the Heavens and look for God there. I would say, try and read the bible as if it is a methaphore for space (Heaven).
Jesus said: how can you believe the things that go on in Heaven if you don't believe the things that go on, on Earth.
I do wish that people would stop thinking these awful things about what God wants us to do, because all that will do is destroy us before we get to experience, learn and understand everything about God and to be deprived from the understanding on my own terms or to not be able to marvel at all the creations of the Universe and beyond seems almost unforgivable to me.
I say, live and let live. God is always here, God loves no matter what, God is God and God ask nothing of you or us other than to known all things created by him.
Though science may say, there is no God, or whatever, I think that deep down they are expressing God on thier terms and I love that they have the mind and are finding the ability to keep going. Keep reaching.
If there is other life out in the Universe, I want know, I want to see it, I want to learn from them as well, because even then, those people are the collection of Gods creations.
We are all Christ already. No "becoming" about it.
Anyone who tells you that you have "work to do" to become perfect, or that "your place in Heaven is at stake in this life" is doing the work of the Devil.
God made you the way you are, and God doesn't make mistakes.
People like to think they know better than God how things should be, but it is the people who judge who are mistaken, not God.
Well said. Personally don't want to be an imitation. 'I am what I am what I am', and I can do what I want.
Well, until I can heal and raise the dead, as Jesus did, I have no problem continuing to pursue understanding how to raise up my soul to be congruent with my Soul one with God, and understand all the levels of the astral planes and the evils thereof, and appreciate the magnificence of the etheric planes.
Free will has been a blessing and a curse, there are many manifestations of the ego and the dweller (not Self) to learn about. To use our free will rightly, and bring into balance the incorrect using of it, is our individual responsibility.
If we had totally balanced our karma and attained our oneness with God, we would not be here, but in the etheric as an ascended Master doing God's work at that level. The mystical teachings of the ancient religions have much to teach, and I know enough to know that I don't know it all.
So, until the "veil" is dissolved, I have work to do, and I am happy to do so!
To become a Christed being, I have found that looking for my own individual understanding of what Jesus was exampling was a good place to start. Christianity got me started, but when I began to recognize the hypocrisy of some Christians not walking the talk, I looked at all the other original religions of the world and started seeing the parallels between them.
For instance, sin and negative karma are basically the same thing. There is a Golden Rule in every religion. Jesus and Buddha both taught compassion and kindness and love for all. There is even a Trinity in Hinduism, (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva) and the Judaic Kabbalah (I'd have to look up the ancient Hebrew words again, it's been a while since I studied the Kabbalah).
I see the Christ aspect as having been since the beginning. Humanity just had to go through a gradual progression (soul evolution) until Jesus came to complete the understanding of how to get back to Oneness with God. All religions have tried to say the One right answer through all their teachings and prophets, even if it came through the consciousness of a prophet in pure Truth, how it was preceived did not stay pure.
Humanity needed an example of the completed soul work, and Jesus was. It's not that other religions are wrong, it's that they provided their step in the story line for the soul to follow. It's just that it takes a mystical mindset to really tune in to finding the ultimate truth, and a soul has to follow their own individual path of Christhood.
The golden rule is only as good as the situation it is implemented in. For instance "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is the golden rule right?
So lets say I am at a picknick playing football at the park with some friends and this homeless guy walks by and he is in a bad mood, but I do not notice that as much and try to help him anyway because after all I think "I would like help if I were in his shoes". So I rush up to say Hello and I get cussed out.
Then I get offended cuz after all I was just "following the golden rule" right?
What if you were a police officer and you caught a criminal smoking pot, but you smoke pot yourself and pop some niacine to pass the drug test. Well, by law you gotta arrest this guy but you know that you would not want this guy to arrest you if you were in his shoes, so do you "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? Or do you "Uphold the law" reasoning falsely that you really would want to be punished if you got caught like him (emotional dishonesty) just so you can avoid the cognitive dissonance that comes from following something as psychologically unsound as "The Golden Rule" in the first place?
If I "treat" others as I would like to be treated I can be a jew in the concentration camp being starved to death by the nazis and still treating them with love and compassion because I could reason that if I were in their shoes I would want love and compassion to because I would reason they work long hard hours patrolling that camp and after all I am not going anywhere anyway so why not be nice to those nazi guards?
Why not talk to them about good things, and try to get along right? I mean isn't that the best thing for me to do, knowing that if I were that nazi I would not want to have a hard time from my prisoners either and with the feeling that I probably would not be able to get away anyway so why not just "get along"?
The Golden rule imo does not hold up to reality, and is only as good or bad as the situation a person finds himself in. Feelings of justness tied to the psychological phenomenon known as reciprocity can be abused and manipulated easily if someone sincerely believes in the golden rule, hell, conmen do it all the time and cult leaders gather a large following doing it.
There was this saying I always remember a friend of mind back in the day quoting (he was a chess master) and it goes like this:
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"
Con men are the one eyed men, the people who see past naievty and with malicious intent destroy people in every way conceivable because they know the weakness inherent in the golden rule.
I am the two eyed man, I am the one who is vocal about things in society and looked down upon and disliked because I stand for the right of every man woman and child to use their own reason and not be led like sheep to the slaughter by every wolf out there.
Hell I ain't no shephard but I got my code of honor.
To defend the innocent
To uphold justice
To fight for freedom if need be
To love as much as possible
To show compassion
To live in moderation
To think things through in reflection (as this is the prime advantage sentient beings have)
I do not think it is a coincidence that atheists/agnostics/freethinkers are bottom of the barrel in just about every society out there (except european ones) when it comes to the social sphere and acceptance or mistrust.
People who do not play by other peoples fantasy land rules usually are not popular and subvert the established order. Hence such people should be shunned and ostracized because they have nothing of value except detraction from the social order when it comes to ethical/moral/philosophical discussion. It is easy and profitable and morally good to pick on the troublemakers who will not bow to the mindless mind numbing mantra of occultic fulfillment in any form. At least so the conventional wisdom goes.
Do you know how lonely it can be to be someone who is agnostic or atheist?
Have you the slightest clue?
Or how about what it is like to be an INTP who is socially challenged and then bucks the system on top of that.
The whole reason people end up with the 'boil the frog psyche' is because people who are unscrupulous use the golden rule against them and when they reciprocate they give ground to the other person 'boiling' them, a little at a time, until they are under control.
I believe in higher consciousness but a very different form of it than the one you believe in Sparkling Jewel.
In my opinion I contend that you believe in a state of mind and understanding that lowers consciousness<---- not raises it. Whether it is reciting the rosary or praying a mantra or practicing trained dissociation or allowing others to force you to dissociate, whatever the mechanism is by which people continously seek to emotionally shy away from reality and higher cognitive function it all leads down a road where one's attitude is more important than the actuality of reality.
A wise 19th century man once said "The priests used to say that faith could move mountains and no one believed them, nowadays scientists say dynamite can move mountains and nobody doubts them"
That is interesting you should bring up loneliness. I have been going through that a lot recently as well. No one truly gets what I believe I am saying. Some believe that they do understand what I am saying and say they do when they don't. There is no way you could possibly understand what I am saying...you are not me and have not had my experiences. You only perceive in me what you perceive from your own experiences.
How one defines reality is key here. My perception of your sense of reality is obviously not mine, and you have no idea what my reality is. To each his/her own. Spirituality is subjective, period. Higher consciousness is subjective, period.
What I appreciate is when someone can feel a degree of mutual understanding...for me it's not in the head, it is in the heart.
Thank God there is affinity between some souls and I do continue to find it, because my human aspect does need and want it, even though most of the time my beliefs do transcend my loneliness.
Oh, and yes, I agree, the Golden Rule is in the eyes of the beholder. It is sad when someone doesn't walk the talk. And it happens to all of us from time to time, that doesn't mean that it is a worthless bit of wisdom, it just says, as you have stated, that it is the responsibility of each soul to keep it wisdom.
So, unless I misunderstand what you're saying here, God has nothing at all to do with it. What I read is that God may as well disappear because he isn't needed anyway.
If all other religions provided their step and it's true, why are there so many differences in these steps? I have opther quesytions, but I will let them alone for now until these are answered.
God has everything to do with the whole thing, of course!!! God is everything, in everything, of everything. How could God have nothing to do with everything?! How could God disappear, God is everything?!
There are differences in the steps because the souls of the earth have been at different stages of evolvement at the different times and cultures of history. Since what we know as the "fall", the souls have had to find their way back to Oneness with God, back to the Heart of God, back to believing their connection with God, believing they are not separate from the Source, the All.
I do believe that the concept of the Christ that Jesus was, and IS, is that Oneness re-born within the consciousness of each individual. It is an acceptance of that Oneness; but it does not happen completely over night, it is a path to follow and learn...it is an individual path of Christhood.
All the different steps are perceived so, because the people in one culture don't perceive the steps in the other culture, because they haven't lived in that culture. And even within each culture, the steps get lost, confused and subverted...because "you know who and his legions" don't want anyone finding the way Home to God. Divide and conquer; you know the many ways of the evil ones' .
Krishna in Hinduism is the concept of the Christ. Buddha in Buddhism is the concept of the Christ. The Tiferet in Kabbalah of Judaism is the concept of the Christ. The concept of the Christ is the mind raised to the level of divinity, that each individual can achieve within their own being...by following the examples of the Christ that many throughout history have provided for humanity. It was a gradual development of the souls around the world that Jesus came to show the final steps to full Oneness with God.
Just my interpretations from years of study, contemplation and experience. Take from it what you will...but it brings me great peace and stops any divide and conquer manipulations between me, my soul and others' !
Why don't you answer that question seeing as though you seem to have all the answers.
The first coming of Christ was a big surprise for those who belongs to a the promised nation many were not able to accept the carpenter from obsure village as the fulfillment of prophesy The possibilities are even greater while we do hub on second coming christ prepare his way back to our tiny village!
Second coming of christ was a main these for poets, writers and historians. A beautiful poem goes further...
WHEN Jesus came to Golgotha they hanged Him on a tree,
They drave great nails through hands and feet, and made a Calvary;
They crowned Him with a crown of thorns, red were His wounds and deep,
For those were crude and cruel days, and human flesh was cheap.
When Jesus came to Birmingham they simply passed Him by,
They never hurt a hair of Him, they only let Him die;
For men had grown more tender, and they would not give Him pain,
They only just passed down the street, and left Him in the rain.
Still Jesus cried, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do,"
And still it rained the wintry rain that drenched Him through and through;
The crowds went home and left the streets without a soul to see,
And Jesus crouched against a wall and cried for Calvary. - (G A Studert )
Vladimir Sergeyevich Solovyov a Russian philosopher written fantastic novel Three conversation where he depicts the second coming of Christ.
Another notable russian auther Dostoevsky demontrasted the coming of Christ in his Brothers Karamazov.
The inspiration still continous modern time many written blogs and articles like If christ came to Congress which appeared in Newyork times.
Another author written What happend when christ came to sydney olympics?
looks so funny but the inspiration still flows...I wonder how can a man who lived 2000 years back in an obsure villag can challenge the very heart of modern culture? If he is not the real Messiah how can He inspire and revive the hearts of million sinners?
We talk of his second coming but are we think of going twards him first time??
Exactly I agree with that last line quite a bit.
As far as me understanding you, perhaps I do not, but using your logic I could say the same of you. The thing I understand here is we all have our own experiences and make what we will out of them, as long as no one holds to a dogmatic intrepretation that does not allow for true discourse aka free inquiry then humans as a whole can continue to grow.
You call it spiritual I call it deeply emotional, perhaps these two ways of saying it are different manifestations of the same subjective experience expressed different ways.
I for one just wish people could drop dogma, it got the human race through a certain period in it's history but is now no longer necessary.
Of course with you that is probably "preaching to the choir", but there are those who are not as subjective as you are and who move from beyong the sphere of personal satisfaction in spiritual enlightenment into the ground of "one must because one should".
In any case I understand a lot more about what you describe I suspect than you think.
I used to be highly spiritual and the sheer ecstasy that comes from total devotion to a thing feels really good and is deeply fulfilling, nowadays I choose to be more grounded when it comes to that which I cannot prove and that which may be innately untestable (whether it is ufo's or creationism or the devil). Even just moderate spiritual experiences can be deeply emotionally moving, for me the danger is in labeling them as the product of some innately occultic force that cannot be tested or probed by thinking about it logically or testing it in a rational manner that anyone can do.
Science has a lot to say about religious or spiritual experience and it is my hope that over time the human race can learn to be skeptical of spiritual claims that are not found through evidential reasoning. I sincerely think that evidential reasoning is what will keep this race alive and will keep all of us from ruining the earth and each other (in the long run). Religious pluralism will keep us alive in the short run (imo).
In my opinion it is so much better to stick with what can be proven and replicated comprehensively than it is that which cannot be tested and held accountable by the reasoning function that almost all humans possess.
Thats my two cents.
Sounds like we are converging near a middle ground. I still think both science and spirituality are equally important and always will be. Both are levels of awareness that are IMHO undeniable aspects of consciousness, from my experience anyway. I am not overly concerned with what God is or isn't, but I do believe that both these levels of experience are part of our natural being. They just haven't become fully understood and experienced. Inner space is the final great frontier !!!
And when and if scientists will continue to forge into proving/accepting/theorizing what previously were just spiritual perceptions there will come an integrated point of awareness. Like chi and the chakras and meridian system of ancient Oriental medicine. It is being accepted in the US now under some insurance billing systems. And many of what have come to be termed complimentary or alternative medicines/treatments are used by mainstream doctors and health practitioners around the world.
Like Sandra said earlier in this thread or maybe another...how great it became for us now days that the earlier scientist put forth their theories, earth goes around the sun, etc...even though they were sacrificed on the alters of "God" according to the perceptions of the leaders in the church.
Wondering....does anyone know the difference between the Golden Rule and the Obligation to Benevelence?
Zarm, the rule is to treat others as you would like to be treated. It doesn;t say you will always get treated right. If you get mad because someone is mad at you then you have done yourself in. You broke the rule yourself when that happens.
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