The non-theist list of requests

1. 82

   Don Wposted 13 years ago

   Non theist. You are sitting in a counselling room with theist. You've had a few rough sessions. In those sessions you've expressed in no uncertain terms your feelings about theist and theist has done the same about you. You don't like each other very much, that much is clear. Unfortunately you happen to live together in the same place.
   
   Now the counsellor asks what you'd like theist to actually do, literally. Stop believing what theist believes? Stop expressing that belief? Just be less theisty? What? She asks you to write a list of practical things you'd like theist to actually do. What do you write on your list?

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   1. 60

      Deaconessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am a theist... but I am not a *conventional* Christian... and at the top of my list is... stop behaving as if the "facts" I present are nothing more than theory. For example... the "fact" that certain scripture verses weren't part of original manuscripts. Every time I mention something like this, I get told that I have the right to my opinion, and then they change the subject. It is almost as if Christian's have an automatic switch in their heads that makes them stop listening when they hear something they don't want to hear.

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      1. 82

         Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         So: don't dismiss my argument just because it doesn't agree with your belief (if that captures what you're saying)
         
         Thank you.

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   2. 82

      Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is the list so far:
      
      -Don't present your belief as evidence
      -Don't just present arguments from a source only you and other theists consider authoritative.
      -Don't dismiss my argument just because it doesn't agree with your belief
      -Don't try to convert me to your belief.
      -Do be honest and straightforward about doctrine relating to 'hell'.
      -Do be honest and straightforward about inconsistencies in your sacred texts.
      -Do accept me for who I am.

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   3. 82

      Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What about society in general. What about the law for example. How about:
      
      Don't try to create laws that force me to live according to your beliefs.

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   4. 82

      Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Forgot about this thread. The list at the moment is:
      
      Don't present your belief as evidence
      Don't just present arguments from a source only you and other theists consider authoritative.
      Don't dismiss my argument just because it doesn't agree with your belief.
      Don't try to convert me to your belief.
      Don't try to create laws that force me to live according to your beliefs.
      
      Do be honest and straightforward about doctrine relating to 'hell'.
      Do be honest and straightforward about inconsistencies in your sacred texts.
      Do accept me for who I am.
      Do be aware that even an honest held belief may be a false belief.
      
      What else?

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      1. 50

         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         interesting thread; not many Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics ( sometimes a mix of them prefer to be called Humanists); they have not much participated here.
         
         Don W, please number the items in the list and the wording if they so request.
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   5. 71

      getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      I would suggest that theist lose the fear, and admit that, like me, they have been brainwashed.  After losing the fear they will have the courage to dismiss the "authority" of ancient myths.

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2. 57

   learner.brownposted 13 years ago

   If the evidence you present for theism is that you believe in it, don't try to engage me in an intellectual discussion. I won't be very nice to you if you do.
   
   However, if you have something to say, say it because you know it and have researched it yourself, not because someone told you that it was true, and not because your religious texts told you that it was true.

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   1. 82

      Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So we start with: don't present your belief as evidence, and don't just present arguments from a source only you and other theists consider authoritative.
      
      (if that's a fair summary)
      
      What else is on that list?

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      1. 81

         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Don't try to disguise your megalomania with weevil words when telling others they will rot in hell if they don't believe exactly as you do.

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3. 78

   skyfireposted 13 years ago

   It's like schizhophrenic patient taking session of doctor.
   Ya hear that? No? you need to listen to god man,else satan will play white noise. Oh you can't see wind and ya expect to see god? You need a session boy.

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4. 81

   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   When making a statement about what god said from your book or the "word" Give any contradictions to it from the same book.
   
   For example, if you are saying there is only one god.
   
   Only one God
   Deut 6:4
   
   There is a plurality of gods
   Gen 1:26.
   Gen 3:22
   Gen 18:1-3
   1 John 5:7
   

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   1. 82

      Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Cheers Earnest. I read that as:
      
      be honest and straightforward about doctrine relating to 'hell'.
      be honest and straightforward about inconsistencies in your sacred texts.
      
      Thanks for the suggestions.

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5. 82

   Don Wposted 13 years ago

   Currently the list is:
   
   
   Don't present your belief as evidence
   Don't just present arguments from a source only you and other theists consider authoritative.
   Do be honest and straightforward about doctrine relating to 'hell'.
   Do be honest and straightforward about inconsistencies in your sacred texts.

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   1. 58

      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Don't equate honesty with belief.

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      1. 82

         Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Can you elaborate? Not sure what you mean.

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         1. 58

            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Believers will make claims based on their beliefs, claims that can easily be refuted, either with evidence to the contrary or simple logic. They then state to being honest about their initial claims, which would indicate they are confusing their belief with honesty.

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            1. 82

               Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Still not understanding you. Believers make claims based on their beliefs, then say they are being honest about the claim. In what respect do they say they are being honest? Honest about telling you their beliefs? Or are you talking about describing a belief as The Truth.

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               1. 58

                  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  That too. They could also be describing the world around them falsely, yet honestly believe it is the truth.
                  
                  A good example was where believers claimed they could not see the wind or the air and compared that "invisibility" to a characteristic of their gods, despite the evidence to the contrary that we can in fact see our atmosphere. Their honesty in that claim was valid, although it was in fact a false belief.

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                  1. 82

                     Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Okay, so I'll summarise that as:
                     
                     Be aware that even an honest held belief may be a false belief.

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                     1. 58

                        Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I like that.

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6. 85

   rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

   this is for either side:
   
   don't present me anything trying to disprove my belief. (I am not interested.)
   
   don't insult me with your arrogance that you are right and I am wrong (which indirectly insults your own intelligence, or lack thereof)
   
   accept me for who I am, not what I believe.
   
   take me out for dinner and we can talk about black holes.

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   1. 82

      Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks rebekahELLE. Some things will of course apply to either, but I'm doing this from the non-theist perspective. It's the non-theist list. So I'm going to take the liberty of changing your two suggestions to:
      
      don't try to convert me to your belief.
      accept me for who I am.
      
      Any theists who can put on a non-theist hat and think about what they'd request of theists if they could are welcome to do so.
      
      (and give me a meal and a bottle of wine and I'll talk about any subject under the sun)

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7. 78

   skyfireposted 13 years ago

   Next weekend ? Done

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