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Atheists! Agnostics! What is right and what is wrong?

  1. profile image61
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    Atheists! Agnostics! What is right and what is wrong?

    How would you define it and on what basis?

    Others could also join in and respond.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        .

    2. pisean282311 profile image60
      pisean282311posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      @paar do you seriously think one needs book for that?...i wonder how world would have been if that if true..there are atleast billions who can't read smile and for those who can many end up read wrong book...

      coming to your question  what is basis of my viewing something wrong or right?..well i dont think anything is purely right or purely wrong..it is mere perception...what i see as wrong might be right for some other person...for e.g. i think your belief is wrong but isn't it right for you?..in same way you think that christians beliving in christ as god are wrong...but according to those who believe in christ..they are right...so it is perfect example of how perception rules ...

      for me there are only things which i wont do because they are not aligned with my core values...

      1. profile image61
        paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        What are your core values and on what basis? Please

        1. pisean282311 profile image60
          pisean282311posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          my core values are never harming anyone , never compromising on principals like never getting order by lie,cheating , never over stating or fooling clients and such things....basis or context is my own thinking pattern..any thing which can make me think -ve about myself or work i am doing is something which i wont do ..my priority is having peace with myself...ofcourse it is not based on how good or bad i am..it is plain self centered motto of being at peace with myself..

    3. Beelzedad profile image57
      Beelzedadposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Are you having a problem trying to figure out the difference between right and wrong?

      1. profile image0
        Chasukposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Many religionists maintain that morality cannot exist without the existence of God. I imagine it is this contention that inspired paarsurrey's question.

    4. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Neither are "right" or "wrong", both are concepts based on perception.

      What is "right" and What is "wrong"? This is basic morality and that is singularly tied to actions, not perceptions.

      Speaking out on those perceptions- is an action, which can be deemed "right" or "wrong".

  2. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Simple you are wrong, along with all the other god bothering fundies. smile

  3. secularist10 profile image86
    secularist10posted 7 years ago

    That which is right is that which contributes to human happiness, progress, wisdom, health, wealth, strength, pleasure and comfort.

    That which is wrong is that which detracts from human happiness, progress, wisdom, health, wealth, strength or comfort, and/or that which contributes to human sadness, misery, backwardness, stupidity, sickness/ illness, poverty, want, weakness, pain and discomfort.

    Where do these rules come from, you ask? They come from a realization that one is human, and that one's own happiness, progress, etc, depend at least in part on others' happiness, progress, etc. They also come from simple logic and reason.

    As far as we can tell, we are alone in the universe. There is nothing but us: humans. Thus we develop rules that apply to all humans, for all humans. It is not the creation of individual human, it is the creation of many human brains applying logic as best they can to common problems and questions.

    Does it work? Can humans be trusted? Can the human race develop viable moral rules on its own, in the absence of a cosmic tyrant to order everyone around?

    Evidently, the answer is yes. As the world has become less religious, less inclined to the supernatural, and more focused on the problems of human freedom, suffering, knowledge, happiness and wealth, in THIS world, the human race has become more prosperous and more knowledgeable of the universe.

    Today, with some exceptions, the least religious societies tend to be the most prosperous and peaceful and stable, and the most religious societies tend to be the least prosperous, the least peaceful and the least stable. There is a reason for that.

    1. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That is another right way of putting things.

      Would you please enlighten us  as to why right is called right and the wrong is not called "left"?

      1. secularist10 profile image86
        secularist10posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Hmm. Not sure I understand your question. If you are referring to the niceties of the English language and the words "right," "wrong" and "left," I'm not sure what the etymologies of those words is.

        It might have something to do with the fact that back in the middle ages, the right side was considered to be the holy side, the side of God, and the left side the side of evil and the devil. This is why left-handed people were distrusted and feared. It is also why in medieval artwork good or blessed characters are often placed to the right of God or Jesus, and bad characters are placed to his left.

        Also, in Italian the word "sinistra" means "left." And "sinistra" also obviously has the same root as the English word "sinister" meaning evil. Bottom line: backward religious belief rears its ugly head again! Always when you least expect it.

        But aside from that, if you are asking what is the fundamental basis for labeling stuff that is good for humans as "right," I already answered that question above.

        Here's another way of looking at it: If I am thinking, then I am by definition requiring my own existence. Even if I say "I should not exist" still by just thinking this thought, I am in fact admitting that I should exist--I should exist to think that thought.

        Thus, by the very act of thinking or doing anything, I am asserting that I *should* exist. If I should exist/ continue existing, then I should do that which contributes to or enhances my existence. And so and so forth, morality continues from there.

        In this hub, I further explore the topic of secular morality and secular rights, and why it is superior to the religious alternative:
        http://hubpages.com/hub/Secular-Moralit … lar-Rights

        1. profile image61
          paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I appreciate your post.

          Chirality has some significance for the human beings. What is your opinion about it/

          Thanks

          1. profile image0
            Chasukposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know what "chirality" means, so I can't answer your question.

            I googled for enlightenment, but I found only chemical definitions.

          2. secularist10 profile image86
            secularist10posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You mean charity.

            Charity, helping the poor, helping those less fortunate, and similar things--these are all very important.

            Why is being charitable moral? Because of my earlier point: it helps to further human progress, health, prosperity and happiness. That is why someone who gives to charity is acting morally.

            1. profile image61
              paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Chirality is different than charity. Please

              1. secularist10 profile image86
                secularist10posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Chirality is a kind of asymmetrical property in geometry. It also has applications in chemistry.

                I have absolutely no clue why you bring this up in a discussion of ethics. What on earth does chirality have to do with this topic?

  4. RFox profile image73
    RFoxposted 7 years ago

    There is no right or wrong only perception.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Nothing's either right or wrong. Thinking makes it so." Or something like that. smile

      1. RFox profile image73
        RFoxposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        big_smile

    2. Misha profile image77
      Mishaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Rachelle, we'll both laugh all the way to heaven wink

      1. RFox profile image73
        RFoxposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        lol

    3. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      So what is this perception based on?

      Thanks

      1. RFox profile image73
        RFoxposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Nature + Nurture + Experience = Perception

    4. secularist10 profile image86
      secularist10posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "There is no right or wrong"

      Is it right to believe this?

      1. profile image61
        paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I don't think so.

        One obeys the traffic rules of the country one lives in? One cannot endanger others by doing whatever one thinks is right or right; for a better society rules have to be made and eforced; otherwise one may prefer to live in jungle.

      2. RFox profile image73
        RFoxposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        My point seems to be getting lost in translation.

        To clarify:
        There is no right and wrong ONLY THE PERCEPTION of right and wrong.

        Example: 
        150 years ago it was "right" under US law to keep African Americans as slaves. It was "wrong" under US law for them to be set free, have to access to education, voting or anything related to basic human rights as we see it today.

        Majority of white people 150 years felt slavery was "right". Majority of African Americans felt (pretty strongly) that slavery was "wrong".

        Today it is "wrong" under US law to keep slaves or to deny ethnic minorities the same human rights as everyone else in the areas of education, work, marriage, voting etc.

        So now it would seem majority of society in US feels slavery is "wrong". (Although there are people who do still disagree with this incredibly!)

        So is it "right" or is it "wrong"?

        How you answer that question is entirely based upon your own PERCEPTION and belief system.

        Therefore: There is no right and wrong only perception. smile

        1. secularist10 profile image86
          secularist10posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          "There is no right and wrong only perception."

          This implies that chattel slavery is not right or wrong. You believe it's wrong, someone else believes it's right. Both perspectives are equally legitimate.

          I ask again regarding the statement, "there is no right and wrong only perception": is it *right* to believe this?

          The answer to this question is either yes or no. Either it is right to believe this statement, or it is not right to believe this statement.

          If it is *right* to believe this statement, then in fact there is such a thing as "right," and the statement is false.

          If it is *not right* to believe this statement, then this statement is false.

          Either way, the statement is false.

          1. RFox profile image73
            RFoxposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            This is your perception. smile

            I believe this statement is neither *right* nor *wrong* but simply my opinion.

            1. secularist10 profile image86
              secularist10posted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Why is it your opinion?

              1. RFox profile image73
                RFoxposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                I don't see the world in absolutes because there are no absolutes.
                Everything is in a constant state of flux and change.

                I could say at this moment in time that death is the only absolute in life but who knows if in the future even this will always be true. The average life span used to be 35 years now it's 75 years...in the future...who knows?

                So if there are no absolutes there is no right and wrong. Right and wrong can exist simultaneously in regards to the same issue. Right and wrong are defined by people in the moment dependent on their perceptions.

                Perceptions are based on a complicated mix of: nature + nurture + experience.

                So why do I hold this opinion?

                Because of who I was the moment I was born, what my parents, teachers and family instilled in me as I was growing and all the experiences and independent study I have done since then and continue to do. It is an ever evolving experience.

                1. secularist10 profile image86
                  secularist10posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Interesting. A few more questions, if I may:

                  "I don't see the world in absolutes..."
                  Is this true absolutely?

                  "there are no absolutes."
                  Is this true absolutely?

                  BTW, let me rephrase my earlier question:

                  You cannot choose your past, or your upbringing. But you can choose what you believe.

                  Why do you choose to hold this opinion?

                  Is it in fact because you believe it is... right?

                  1. RFox profile image73
                    RFoxposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    In the moment I typed those words it was what I believed. Tomorrow...who knows?


                    Nope. It is only true as I view the world in this particular moment, time and place with the knowledge I currently have available to me.



                    Belief is based on our past and present experiences. I cannot point to one specific reason as to why I hold this opinion only that at this moment in time I do.

                    Whether it is considered 'right' or 'wrong' is inconsequential to me.

                    Today it is my reality.
                    Tomorrow, something may occur in my life that alters my entire philosophy on this subject.

                    I am therefore I am.

  5. profile image0
    Chasukposted 7 years ago

    "Right" is increasing human wellbeing. 'Wrong" is decreasing human wellbeing.

    1. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That is one right way of putting things; I agree with you.

  6. Dorothee-Gy profile image72
    Dorothee-Gyposted 7 years ago

    I go with my Inner Knowledge and how it feels. When I'm in harmony with myself, it feels great and I suppose that is what life is supposed to feel, so I expect my beliefs to evoke the same feelings of well-being and harmony in me.

    If it feels off, it is off for me.

    1. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That is another right way of putting the things. I agree with you.

      Thanks

  7. Disturbia profile image60
    Disturbiaposted 7 years ago

    The only thing wrong around here might be this ridiculous question.  We are still free in this country to believe as we choose, are we not?  So neither is right or wrong. Each is simply a matter of personal choice and therefore does not need to be defended to anybody else.

    1. profile image0
      Chasukposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      We? This country? HubPages has a global demographic. Further, there is no connection between having the freedom to do something and the rightness or wrongness of that action. In many African nations, mothers are free to excise their daughter's clitoris. Is it right to do so?

      1. luvpassion profile image61
        luvpassionposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Good God...thanks for that nightmare. hmm

      2. Disturbia profile image60
        Disturbiaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Please excuse my tunnel vision.  The "we" in my comment live here in the USA.  My response was to the question:  "Atheists! Agnostics! What is right and what is wrong?"  If someone is an Atheist or an Agnostic, who is to say what they believe is right or wrong, certainly not me. It's OK to be either one or the other here in the USA. 

        I'm not sure what the question has to do with female circumcision however, I wasn't aware that either Atheists or Agnostics practiced it.

        As to whether or not it is right to do, depends entirely on how one was raised.  Obviously those doing it think it is right and correct.  Of course, I do not because I was not raised in that culture.

    2. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You or anybody else is free to decide for yourself; even then one  decides what is right for your and what is wrong for you. After all you follow some pattern; what is that pattern and why?

  8. profile image0
    Surabhi Kauraposted 7 years ago

    There is nothing good or bad in this world, but our perceptions make it so.

  9. TruthDebater profile image51
    TruthDebaterposted 7 years ago

    I think right from wrong is what goes against conscience. Does it take islam or religion to have a conscience? I don't think so.

    1. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What is consience and how it get formed? Does everybody has the same consience?

      1. TruthDebater profile image51
        TruthDebaterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks. I think the conscience is plastic, it can be trained or untrained, so no I don't think everyone has the same conscience. Do you believe it takes islam to have a conscience?

        1. profile image61
          paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Doing something with the clear conscience ; make ones at peace. Where the consience pricks; that is not right to do.

          Presently nothing comes to my mind about it in Quran. Nevetheless I know Quran has describe "self" in three classifications:

          1.    Ammara; which is apt to do wrongs most of the time; not being pricked.
          2.    Lawwama; the state of a person when he does something; his mind pricks and if he does it, his mind is remorseful.
          3.    Mutmainna; he is at peace; evil thoughts don’t bother him; always does right and virtuous deeds.

          Thanks

          1. profile image61
            paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            One may refer for Ammara:
            [12:54] ‘And I do not hold my own self to be free from weakness; for, the soul* is surely prone to enjoin evil, save that whereon my Lord has mercy. Surely, my Lord is Most Forgiving, Merciful.’
            http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=53
            *or self

            And for Lawwama

            [75:2] Nay! I call to witness the Day of Resurrection.
            [75:3] And I do call to witness the self-accusing soul, that the Day of Judgment is a certainty.
            http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … mp;verse=0

            And for Mutmainna

            [89:28] And thou, O soul* at peace!
            [89:29] Return to thy Lord well pleased with Him and He well pleased with thee.
            http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=28
            *or  self

            Thanks

            1. TruthDebater profile image51
              TruthDebaterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Thanks. I do not make it a habit to debate bible or islam bible quotes. I will make an exception for this time. Where in your quotes does it say the word conscience? It says "mind" and "soul" with nothing of brain or conscience. No one knows the origin of conscience or conscious because no one knows the origin of life. As far as mind and soul, these are under duality, there is no proof of duality, but nothing to disprove it. Many materialists believe conscience is simply a creation of the brain of a persons belief between what is right and wrong.

  10. jdomingo profile image60
    jdomingoposted 7 years ago

    Conscience is what we as individuals deem right and wrong as far as how it is developed?  that all depends on where you were born who you were born too what their morals are how they talk to you about them and what you think of them and what you decide to choose that is what makes up 'our' consciences.  and do we all have the same conscience?  no that would be almost impossible to achieve we are all raised differently with different beliefs and feed different information on a daily basis and we all have the freedom of choice to choose what we want to believe.

    1. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Where does the conscience reside in our body; is it the brain or heart or mind?

      1. pisean282311 profile image60
        pisean282311posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        where does you belief reside in your body?...is it the brain or heart or mind?

        1. profile image61
          paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          It is in the soul, I think.

          1. pisean282311 profile image60
            pisean282311posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            ok...i got that..

        2. jdomingo profile image60
          jdomingoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Why does it have to 'reside' somewhere can't it just...be.  It just is.

          1. profile image61
            paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Unless a tning is physical; some people find it difficult to figure it out. Brain and heart they can understand; soul they can't understand. Nevertheless "mind" they will use witout questioning it; they will then subdivide it subconcious mind etc

            Thanks

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              The brain doesn't need to be sub divided. It arrives with all the components in their right place and is understandable.

  11. oogabooga profile image56
    oogaboogaposted 7 years ago

    I could believe in being the most kind, giving, helpful, just person in existence. But if I had no job, and no way of bettering my situation, I'd still rob you blind to support my family.

    Right and Wrong is merely a perception.  People develop these perceptions based on how it applies to them. Many people hold beliefs of right and wrong that are borrowed from others. They don't have a personal opinion on it so with what their group(be it religious, ethnic, social) chooses. Other than philosophically, does your opinion matter to anyone other than yourself anyway?

    I'm gonna stick with a simple version. Do what you do as long as it doesnt hurt others.

    1. profile image61
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      One should not harm one's ownself; one should not commit suicide also; it is wrong though it does not harm others. Please make allowance of it. One should not harm animals; one should not harm anykind of tree or any form of life. This is on the negative side; as it would be wrong to do.

      One should contribute towards preserving life in any form on the positive side.

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Don't harm a tree?? A bit late for that!

        So you live without firewood or timber?
        If this wasn't so stupid it would be funny.

        It is in keeping with the rest of the dribble you believe though.

        1. profile image61
          paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          In many poor countries; the trees are being cut with such a speed that the forests are getting disappeared; hence cutting of trees unnecessaritly is not prolife; alternates resources should be used as much as possible. This is one cause of frequet floods; the forest are natrual impediments of floods.

          Thanks

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I am aware of all that!

            This is a lot different to the statement you made above though.

            1. profile image61
              paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              .

  12. profile image0
    klarawieckposted 7 years ago

    EVERYBODY IS WRONG



                                    ...except me smile

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      So you live in a wood free environment too? smile

      1. profile image0
        klarawieckposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Whatcha talkin' bout Willis?!

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I thought you were agreeing with our resident muslim...

          "one should not harm anykind of tree or any form of life."

          1. profile image0
            klarawieckposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Earnest, I put a little bit of tobacco on the ground and recite a prayer before chopping down my neighbor's abrasive branches. lol

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Tobacco eh?

              The only use I have found for tobacco is to make marijuana burn better. smile

              1. profile image0
                klarawieckposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Medical use? lol

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I take it for CNS pain relief, the only pain relief marijuana provides. smile
                  Marijuana increases pain in most circumstances.

                  1. CkhoffmanK profile image60
                    CkhoffmanKposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Not true..

                    Marijuana effects everyone differently, of course, but CNS isn't the only pain it relieves. wink

                    (card carrier and proud)

  13. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    ?

  14. CkhoffmanK profile image60
    CkhoffmanKposted 7 years ago

    "well both laugh all the way to heaven" -- If the Christian god is as people claim, then I doubt anyone would get in with *that* attitude toward their "brethren". 

    Seems almost like you relish the thought of someone *not* going to heaven. That's kindof just sickening. Keep your evil little religion. Seriously.

 
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