Matthew mentions that all the disciples fled away from the scene of the Cross, when Jesus was hanging in agony on the Cross and needed them the most.
Was the response of the disciples natural, appropriate and/or exemplary?
Do you expect they should have done more than they did?
It was natural Parr. Their leader, mentor and teacher was just crusified, they were warned by him they could also suffer the same fait, what would you expect, they were only twelve in number, the Roman army was 12,000- to ten fold that number.
what a stupid question Parr! good grief!
also I may ask you the same. Peacefull Muslums every where say terrorism is wrong, when you ask them individualy, but where are they when they should stand up with us collectively, I do not see them offering to join the fight along side of us?
I am US born Anti -terror american!!!!!!!!!
It means they did not believe that Jesus was the christian-god as the Christian like to have us believe and Jesus was going to become alive after death. Had they believed it they did not have to run away? if Jesus chritian-god was to become alive; he could make them alive again if they feared death.
It is a made up story of Jesus being god or son of god.
you really are full of garbage Parr, you have nothing to offer us here.
The cult you belong to is a censored group, censored by the very Islam leaders you up-hold? you are a contradiction not a belief. You follow a sham of a man who is nothing more than a self proclaimed re-incarnate of Muhammad, whom is considered by the Islamic leadership as worth of censorship and dis-association with and from all Muslims. They have even issued a warning about your sect to all Muslims. I went and read about your belief. It is fake, a Muslim cult.
clean up your own back yard first, then preach of God if you still have the audacity to. You fly in the faces of true Islam.
it means their fear is greater than their faith
I believe the disciples were vulnerable, sad and in fear. When a friend gets Berry down and out how many friends are going to stick around and see you through the muddy mire? I wonder if we could count them on our fingers, out of all our Friends. It does not mean they do not love or care. It usually means they do not want to get too involved in the 'dirt' of the matter it is easier to walk away and let someone else help. Selfish maybe but I am not the judge. I think God was showing us they were human and the ONLY guarantee in life that will never change or disappoint is the King of Kings. The Lord of All the universe. He never changes his mind. He always keeps his word. 'He will never leave or forsake us' Man cant keep promises. We break them all the time. The disciples were sinners as we all are. They did not mean to hurt Jesus and I bet they felt awful the next day because of leaving HIM and loving HIM so much at the same time. Jesus is so awesome he just loved them he knew how they felt.
What exactly do you think that they could have done?
I think that the disciples scattered the night before.
Only the two Marys and the disciple that he loved, were at the cross.
If as ,per Bible, Jesus was to resurrect from the dead and, as per Church, he was a god; then all the disciples should have stayed there to see Jesus getting alive from the dead.
If they would have been killed by the Jews; their god, as per Bible, would have raised from the dead again.
So, there was no risk.
If one could stay, as per John, the rest also could; and no harm was done to John.
pure self-serving BS, trying to make your Cult look great, and the Bible seem less.
He told them of it before it happened Paar. He said, you can not accompany me, where I go you can not. They already knew the result, he taught them of it.
Go back to your Cult Parr, Pakistan is looking or a few Holier than thou men!
I think, considering what they thought at the time it would be natural. The disciples had been looking for the Messiah to come and bring God's kingdom. They didn't understand the scriptures concerning Jesus's crucifixion. So when Jesus was taken, and crucified they thought they were wrong concerning him. He appeared to them after his resurrection and Thomas wouldn't believe until he saw and touched him.
Even if they had fully understood what was happening, there wasn't anything they could do. Scripture had to be fulfilled.
The Hebrew priests were very familiar with the book of Daniel.
When Alexander the Great was marching his army to Jerusalem with intentions of taking it. the priests went forward to meet him. Showed Alexander the scriptures (Daniel 8:21) and confirmed that it was the will of God for Israel to be subservient to him.
What I'm getting at is they knew that the Roman Empire was the fourth Beast as described in Daniel 7:23 and 8:9.
They misunderstood this scripture to imply that the Messiah would come during the reign of the king that replaces the three kings after the first ten kings of this fourth kingdom. (Daniel 7:24)
In other words... the Messiah arrived about ten kings earlier than they were expecting him.
Imagine that. Interpreting prophesy messed them up.
They were also looking for him to come out of Bethlehem. Which Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but when he came to them it was out of Nazareth.
They thought no good thing would come out of Nazareth.
Not understanding scripture.
Hind sight is 20/20.
They understood 95% of their prophesys correctly.
It is amazing that being 5% off can cause ya to miss the boat entirely.
I'm going to go fall down now good night.
Yes, but, can we honestly say that if we were living back then that we would have known? Would we have understood?
" It is amazing that being 5% off can cause ya to miss the boat entirely"
Yeah, that's why we need to keep our bags packed and watching for the boat to pull in.
Time for bed.
This proves that they were not inspired by the holy Spirit.
The event you posted your question on was before the resurrection.
The Holy Spirit came upon them "after" the resurrection.
So you mean the holy Spirit did not exist before the event of cross?
He did exist, he didn't fill our hearts with his spirit, until after the cross.
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him to you."
That might be John's narration only; these are not Jesus' words. Please quote Jesus' words written by him or dictated by him.
For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground; I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessings upon thy offspring.
Luke 24-49 (Jesus speaking to his disciples after his resurrection)
And behold I send the promise of my Father upon you; but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until you be endued with power from on high.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Paar you discount everything anybody says, you even go so far as to insult go so far at to try to make anybody that will not agree to your cults point of view, you say ONLY what you think, you will not even QUOTE from the Quran even though it is PURE HEARSAY you have NOTHING TO SAY THAT MAKES ANYTHING YOU SAY VALID ......................... Go back to your Muslim sect, which mainstream Muslims DO NOT BELIVE in fact IT IS BANNED you can never go to MECCA you are not wanted by TRUE MUSLIMS and when you answer my post STICK TO THE SUBJECT do not start a new one as you always do .................
Was the response of the disciples natural, appropriate and/or exemplary?
The response of Joseph Armithea and Nicodemus was natural and praise-worthy; they looked for an opportunity to save their master; and as soon as they saw an oppurtunity they took Jesus' injured body from the officials and took him hurriedly for the treatment to a tomb. They treated him with the ointment called "Marham-e-Issa" or "Marham-e Hawariyyeen" or "Ointment of Jesus" or " Ointment of the Diciples"; it is mentioned in the ancient medical books of the pre-Islamic period.
Spoken by a man, belonging to an Islamic Cult, and the Cult censored by Islamic leadership? And we all should believe you? you are a fake sir.
you are here to get hits on your cults web-site only.
This is hearsay! Nothing more! Muhammad wanted people to believe Jesus did not die on the cross! And he fooled a many of people... and you continue in his madness....except you are in a cult that even your own people snarl their noses to!
Muhammad take a long look in the mirror and start with the man in the mirror if you want truth!!
the disciples fled or seemingly fled. There was nothing they could do. Jesus did not need them at that point in time. It was best they left and lived than stayed and perhaps died.
There is nothing wrong with their actions.
Worse was done by peter by denying jesus three times and yet Jesus restored him completely, keeping peter as a disciple.
Just because the disciples left is no reason to dis resurrection.
so i answer: natural and appropriate and i will include their lives were exemplary
jesus wasn't even in the tomb for probably more than an hour, perhaps not even a minute. He had other work to do that wouldn't allow him to just hang around, so as soon as joseph left, Jesus was risen and outta there. Once that big stone got rolled across and sealed there is no way it was gonna open for anybody.
in the belly of the whale for three days and nights.... that doesn't mean he was just sleeping or laying around dead, Jesus was up and doing the will of the father again...
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Jesus went to other graves and preached his gospel to these saints and they in bodily form went home to live their lives fully. Not the old testament saints people of jesus' time.
But he was not healed by any balm.... jesus, son of god, God in the flesh, did not need that he could easily heal himself.
He feared and did not meet the Jews; the Christian-god feared them very much and avoided them ; lest they got hold of him again and put him on the Cross again. He met others secretly and in the night; not in the open daylight to everybody.
Am I right?
not even close.
christian god fears nothing.
He put himself on the cross
bible says he met people both day and night
They there was no need to take him in the tombe; they should have left him where he was delivered from the Cross; they should have waited that a physician sees him and certify that he had died.
But they took him hurriedly to the tomb.
#1 Mark 15:44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
Mark 15:45 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
A centurion is a very reliable source if one wants to know if something is dead or not.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
#2 Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
You may well know that the day starts at 6pm approximately. They had 3 hrs left after the 9th hour to deal with dead bodies in the city because the following day was a sabbath day and no dead bodies were allowed to be hanging around in the city on a sabbath day. Between going to pilate etc... Jesus hung there lifeless for a considerable amount of time. The only hurrying they would have done was to get him buried before the next day began.
Please name the countries in which the death certificates are issued by the centurians instead of the physicians or doctors.?
I don't believe you
I quoted scripture. I am not asking you to believe me when i quote scripture.
Obviously the centurion outranked a physician as the centurions word was enough that pilate said okay to joseph to have the body.
Heres a full account
John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
John 19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
John 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. (the disciple john)
John 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. (prophesy fulfilled)
John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. (2 prophesy fulfilled)
John 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
John 19:39 And there came also Nicodemus,(a believing pharisee) which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. (there was no hurrying)
John 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
John 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
John 19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
hanging out wrote earlier:
"A centurion is a very reliable source if one wants to know if something is dead or not."
That was a general statement drawing a principle which is/was not there.
It seems there was an underhand dealing between the officials/pilate and the friends of Jesus. Pilate only needed a pretext to hand injured Jesus to the friends of Jesus; the centurion provided that.
Paarsurrey... one could talk to you all day and give you scripture after scripture but the only verses out of the bible you hold faith in are the ones that do not contradict the Qu'ran!
You are the one that picks and choses what fits your ideals!
It was foretold in the OT that Jesus would come... they would not break any of his bones... and they would pierce him... both came true through Jesus! He was prophesy fullfilled!
If you want to ignore facts then go ahead! It's your right to believe whatever you want!
Show me the name Jesus in the OT. It is not there you know.
Don't you think it is necessary that the prophecy should mention the name literally as Mary would have named her son?
Don't you think out of the whole Qu'ran there should have been ONE prophesy to prove it's legit? If it in fact was of the one true God then where is that proof? And why couldn't Muhammad perform miracles as could the other prophets??? Yet of all prophesies you expect Jesus name to be mentioned as proof... yet your entire Qu'ran has no proof of any miracles or prophesies...only the words of one man!
There is much proof if you look! Too many facts to ignore!
Put faith in what you will Paarsurrey!
The prophecy in Isaiah chapter 53, is known as the "Man of Sorrows" passage:
He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
The Greek Septuagint text:
And I will give the wicked for his burial, and the rich for his death; for he practised no iniquity, nor craft with his mouth.
In the Qumran community's Great Isaiah Scroll, dated at c. 100 BC, the words are not identical to the Masoretic text:
And they gave wicked ones his grave and [a scribbled word, probably accusative sign "eth"] rich ones in his death although he worked no violence neither deceit in his mouth.
Considering the ability of the jewish people to worship things unapropriate to
God. The name of the messiah in prophecy would not be mentioned because then everybody would be naming their child jesus or barabas or whatever the name was to be. Its like the body of moses.. which God took away and buried because the jews would have built a shrine there. The serpent of brass in the wilderness lasted 400 yrs, they burned incense to it.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
bible says dead
I believe dead
Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
John 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever makess himself a king speaks against Caesar.
pilate saw no wrong in jesus this may be what you are mistaking for a underhanded dealing.
Hanging out... he will not believe you! He is not even using the Bible as his basis. He is using hearsay from other sources! No matter what you quote or say there is no reasoning with him!
I know but like others, i will know when to shut this conversation down.. He shows more promise than some people, but, still i fear you may be correct. He does seem adamant. At least he is not being adamant stupid, like asking me to compare disneyland and starving children.
as usual paar you make a statement about Jesus now unless you were there PROVE YOUR STATMENT and you seem to know what Pilate was thinking, man you must have been there to know this as fact NOW PROVE YOUR STATMENTS or admit you only talk HEARSAY.....................
When one applies reason; I will be there.
Bible does not belong to Jesus; he never read it; he never preached it. Did he? Did he ever read Matthew, Marks, John and Luke; he never did it. Mary also never read it.
It started with Paul and Church; it has nothing to do with Jesus and Mary.
and MOHAMMED never read the Quran or preached from it, for two reasons Mohammed can not read and he was DEAD I am sick of your half unproven so called facts Paar unless you were there you DO NOT KNOW WHAT PILATE was thinking!! do you read minds too?
Show me the name Jesus in the OT. It is not there you know.
Don't you think it is necessary that the prophecy should have mentioned the name Jesus literally as Mary would have named her son?
The messiah is not mentioned by name in the OT because then you would have everybody naming their child jesus.
like the roster of a Latin American baseball team
Now we get a principle that it is not essential that proper name of a person is mentionedi in the previous scriptures by the Prophets_________A
Won't that confuse the people if their are more that one claimants?
What difference does it make if everybody names one's children as Jesus? The real Jesus would be known because of other signs.
Do you agree?
Not really Paar... look how many people who, like yourself, confuse Mirza Ghulam Ahmad for a holy man and not the con artist that he was.
no i don't exactly. It can be argued either way.
I think the secret name keeps the traffic of messiahs down in number because anyone not having that name would be excluded but anyone having that name would be automatically included.
I don't think its a big point in the sight of the other indicators?
paar BELIVE THIS FACT THAT NO ONE BELIEVES A WORD YOU SAY it is simple EVEN TRUE MUSLIMS TREAT YOUR SECT WITH DISBELIFE AND SCORN you have never got anything across to anybody.
so Paar try and go to MECCA and see what TRUE MUSLIMS DO TO YOU, it is required of all Muslims to visit MECCA at least one time in their life, EXCEPT YOUR SECT..........................................
Messiahs were rampant at the time Jesus was born; so the numbers could not be restricted.
People interpret the secret names differently; the original text in the original word revealed; people translate them, so the secret name is lost in the abstraction.
Won't it be essential to mention the proper name, in this scenario, to avoid any confusion?
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
I think the 3,945,876 miracles that jesus did eliminated the need for a proper name.
Did Jesus mention this figures and that he had shown these miracles; one that Jesus pronounced for the adulterous Jews; that Chiristian don't believe that Jesus survived death on Cross and went to India. Do they?
PAAR YOU ARE A LOW INSULTING MEMBER OF A MUSLIM CULT THAT EVEN ISLAM BANS FROM GOING TO MECCA
you DO NOT LOVE MARY OR JESUS you are always INSULTING THEM BOTH
NO one came off the CROSS ALIVE paar!!!
how many posts do you have to have , how long untill you wake up to the TRUTH??
paar in one of your last posts ( find it in another of your many posts)in another blog you placed the Jewish Torah and the Muslim Quran as equal????
Tell me ONE MIRACLE that Allah or Mohammed preformed?
Why do you think so many Muslims are MINDLESSLY CALLED MOHAMMED, WILL THIS GIVE THEN FAVOUR WITH MOHAMMED OR ALLAH?
Why did Mohammed state when Mohammed was alive to be remembered by many, then to be written down ( after Mohammed's death, ) by so many, without any mistakes, that Mohammed can have over 12 wives but any other Muslim man can only have four wives?
Why did Mohammeds wife not see the Angel that Mohammed was seeing yet, Mohammeds wife showed the ( so called Angel) her private parts , then the Angel ( that she could not see) left Mohammed then Mohameds wife took many hours to calm Mohammed down??
I do not know what Mohammed saw but I do know truthfully it was not a angel from God the father to show your 'private parts to a so called angel of God is 'sick', evil and wicked paar do you agree?
Why do you only ATTACK Jesus and the Christian bible . and never your beloved Torah, are you also a Jew Paar??
paar please before you have the whole world laughing at your silly posts, speak only the truth, stop Christian bashing, do not even think you love Jesus or Mary, they are not from your faith and Jesus and Mary are only in the Quran because Mohammed took from the Holy Bible to try and discredit Jesus and Mary that was just another way of your so called Prophet so he can look good in Allah's eyes, you can never speak for Jesus or Mary as they are NOT MUSLIM that is what I belive and I am sick of your 1/2 truths.
Speak with proof of your words paar or SHUT UP
NO PAAR NO PERSON CAME OFF THE CROSS ALIVE SO YOU CAN STOP THIS LIE RIGHT NOW
you see Paar I know if Jesus is the TRUE son of God it proves Ialsm is NOT THE TRUE FAITH, so you have to try and discredit Jesus Christ, Mary St Paul and the Church to try and make people belive in Islam, you must CONTINUE TO BE FOOLED BY THE DEVIL, nothing you say or invent can prove to anybody that Jesus did not die on the CROSS therefore Ialam and Muslims are MISTAKED AND FOOLED BY THE DEVIL PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!
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